The girl killed by Barack Obama - she never saw it coming

A comparison to insane Bush does not excuse the damage caused by Obama. Cop-out.

agreed,also i would add...how many civilans were killed by accident during bush's two ground wars...i would guess that the percentage of targets eliminated vs collateral damage suffered is substantially lower in this case.and yes,all of it is awful.

It's simple. He gave the order, she died. War is messy, but he is responsible.

"I will say, however, that it's disrespectful of our President to say that
an innocent victim of a drone attack can be directly attributable to his
"order"."

Seriously? Isn't it a true fact?

Then I guess that means they don't hold Bush accountable either. Some just will never get it when politics gets in the way.

I know. I think a lot of well-intentioned people are susceptible to such irrational thinking because of the targeted effort to make people ignorant by the large media corporations and politicians. Generally the people are not well-informed because the powers that be purposely make sure of it. The entities that manufacture the people's perception of reality know human psychology very well, and are therefore pretty good at manipulating people.

Oh yes, psychology is a huge part of the political sell.

Politics kills.

While I agree completely with most of what you said I have to disagree with the last bit. While Obama is no where near what people wanted him to be he is also leagues away from being the slime that Bush is.

You are so correct, Sir or Madame or Ms.
thanks for your careful review of Fox to the extent that
you immediately detect the likelihood of disinformation.
The spin that is being placed on this event by the writer
of the article here is also appalling.

I fully support your informed and valuable comment.
Thanks, KL.

You didn't read my comment carefully. I am saying that people are defending Obama in this instance because they are so used to defending Obama from Fox that they can't even see when there is legitimate criticism like the author here is conveying. I am talking about people like you.

No problem. I see little difference between the two, but I know there are other opinions out there too. Everyone has their own. Thanks.

Such a wussy comment.

I did.

And?

Well said, jan. I'm sick of it, too.
There is never any excuse to murder innocent people.

And I am sick of it too.

... and I do believe that is the purpose of the Obama administration. His very purpose is to execute a conservative agenda for his elite masters while hypnotising liberals into complacency. Fucking genius! Also, evil.

I'm sure Romney will hold your liberal principles so much closer to heart. Good luck with that.

Why on Earth would you think I support Romney? What a ridiculous comment!

Because that is exactly where you're preposterously ridiculous, impractical ,extremist left wing rheotoric is leading. To a Romney victory. And that is going to make everything so much better, isn't it?

Your argument is if I'm not with you then I'm against you. How very predictable! All you have to offer is the status quo. If we keep voting these elite jerks in, nothing is ever going to change. Yours is the path of mute slavery.

Sorry, but I support neither candidate and I don't care what insane rationalisations other people have for why I should vote for Obama anyway. What is ridiculous, impractical, and extremist is you thinking it makes sense for you to imply that I should vote for someone I do not support.

The nonsensical scare tactics aren't going to scare me. I'm sorry, but I'm just not afraid that if I don't vote for one elite tool, the elite tool from the other team is going to get elected. Your reasoning is null and void.

Whichever tool is elected is going to serve the elite at your and my expense. Perhaps you will one day realise that you feel the way you do because you are meant to feel that way, and that the media and the Democratic party make sure they get elected based on fear of the lunatics on the other side of the isle rather than on their own merits. I'm far too much of an independent thinker to be manipulated in that way. Never mind the fact that the difference between the 2 parties is only in how they present themselves. It's an act.

"Apparently, our overarching duty as citizens is to work to strengthen the Democratic Party leadership, no matter what it does." -- Glenn Greenwald (sarcastically)

"We get to choose the rhetoric and manner in which we are deceived and disempowered. Nothing more." -- Chris Hedges

"We have to turn our backs for good on the Democrats, no matter what ghoulish candidate the Republicans offer up for president. We have to defy all formal systems of power. We have to listen closely to the moral voices in our society, from McKibben to Noam Chomsky to Wendell Berry to Ralph Nader, and ignore feckless liberals who have been one of the most effective tools of our disempowerment." -- Chris Hedges

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_election_march_of_the_trolls_20110829/

It validates their own lack of moral courage. Using the politics of fear is a tactic all sides use. Oh my God, don't say Obama is wrong or he will lose! Doesn't matter if there are dead children in the equation. I find it disgusting.

I find many things in this world disgusting. Especially political leaders and their supporters who think the world is a wonderful cheery place and if we just leave everything alone, everybody's going to be happy. A real leader has to weigh the benefit of the many over that of just the few. That's reality, a hard one that many of a particular political persuasion don't want to hear because they would rather sit back with phony moral outrage about life, with their hands over their ears ,because they can't face reality. It's easy to be self righteous and condemn other people decisions when you're not the one charged with the responsibility of making those decisions.

Screw Chris Hedges. I don't base my political philosophy on the rantings of some journalist. I base it on my own life experience in the real world after 40 years of political activism and seeing what works and does not. By seeing how things of substance get accomplished instead of sitting back and whining about the perfect world we could could create if only........
I really don't know why I'm wasting my time , ideological fanatics will never have their minds changed by reason and experience, it interfers with their theoretical nonesense, and takes precious time away from self righteously condemning others for not being as pure as they are.

Your extremism colors everything you write. Obama ended the Iraq war , as he promised,and is in the process of ending the Afghan War; which, by the way he never promised to end as he did the other. I did not support either war and cursed the day Bush started them both. Obama has extricated us from one and is beginning the process on the other. His policy of surgically removing terrorists is a new direction for the country rather than getting us involved in unending ground wars that no one wants. Your immature, ideological perfectionism prevents you from acknowledging the difference because ,with you, it's "my way or the highway." The real world is much more complicated than your simplistic view of it. Calling somebody a war monger , in effect, as a debate tactic only shows me exactly how tightly wound up in your deluded perspective of the world you are
The President(any president) is entrusted with keeping the country and it's people safe. Your idea of doing that is to stick a daisy in a terrorist's gun and walk away. You never offer a coherent argument as to what should be done , you just criticize unrelentingly and mercilessly, never offering any realistic solution to the situation at hand. I'm funny, I tend to defend people who are being derided unfairly, presidents or not. You don't like it? I don't much give a damn. You don't like me? Fine. It won't stop me from speaking out against this
constant, extreme leftist damning of an honorable man trying to do the honorable thing in the face of an extroardinarily difficult task.
Now go ahead and start calling me an Obamabot untill your head spins around. It won't change anything , and if it makes you feel better to call me names so your fellow extremists can see it, it's no skin off my back.

Whoops! I voted you up in your comment above,
but now must vote you down.

I'm not one who will ever buy the superficial or
shallow type of submission to surface information.

Our President has done an incredible job given
the mess that he inherited.

Sorry that you can't support him.

Sorry, friend. But you've taken yourself
totally out of the game and into the
opponent's camp.

Thanks for that.

Ron Paul maybe?

Hear, hear! (((applause)))

Listen, my friend, you're citing folks like Chomsky
and Ralph Nader who are past their prime and relevance.
You need to stay in tune with political science theory and
the policies of the Liberal/Dems--and stay loyal to the
cause of the PEOPLE. You can't do that by jumping
ship in the middle of the ocean where there's not even
a life boat to save you.

Come back aboard. We'll welcome you. Yes we can!

Calm down, please.

Never give in to anything that's presented to
arouse emotionalism. That's when we get into
hysteria. What's presented here is cursory at best,
and inciting of emotion and Foxism at it's worse.

Cool and very valid commentary. Thanks.

Go, joe! You are so correct. Don't ever cave
to any journalist, and certainly not Hedges,
nor the likes of the Linguist Chomsky, or
the rabble rouser Nader (who's partly responsible
for the election of Dubyah). I'm with you all the way!

Please, try and take a break and stop with the
"dead children" meme. There are always
"deal children" in wars. Does the name Mai Lai
mean anything to you? How about WWII and
the Nazi death camps?

You don't desert a president who's trying to extricate
us from the 8 years of Busy/Cheney invasions just
because you suddenly open your eyes to the horrors
of war. Your indignation needs to be expressed in
the voting booth.

Great comment. I respect your thoroughness
and your courage in calling it as you see it.
And, from what I can see, most of how you've
called it is spot on.

Typical. Can't supply what was asked for so you drone on.

It's easy to be self righteous and condemn other people decisions when you're not the one charged with the responsibility of making those decisions"
~~
Well if you didn't support this BS "war on terror" when Bush was pushing it then you are surely a hypocrite about this now. And don't even think to call my moral standing phoney either. I don't base it on political expedience as you do. You are nothing here but a political hack for Obama and as far as I am concerned not much different in that respect from those who cheered Bush on. Just how many DEAD CHILDREN are worth it to you to get Obama some Republican votes? Why are we sending drones into Pakistan still if Bin Laden is dead? What is the specific threat when Panetta himself claimed Al Qaeda was broken. Explain in detail then the exact threat to the USA that requires us to blow up innocent civilians and cite specific credible sources.

Thank you kabuki-liberal. I just get tired of the preachy Obama bashing that continually appears here without any respect for the man ,or any consideration of what a horror another conservative in the White House would be. Some hate me for it...oh, well.

You are so right and I admire your willingness to state it in the face of extreme opposition.
Obama didn't start these wars and he's doing his best to end them and not start any more.
His new policy of using the Seals to avoid ground wars is the only sane foreign policy decision of the last 12 years.

Exactly why should I supply you with what you ask for? What am I? Your personal secretary? I don't need quotes to support a personal " opinion." If Obama needs to conduct drone attacks to keep us out of full scale military actions and ground wars--more power to him. Just sit on your butt and criticize, make comments and then remove them. Yep, that really gives you credibility.

Thanks again, kabuki. It's much appreciated.

Not a chance.

[Sorry, it might not be clear which comment of yours to which I am replying. To be clear, I mean I do not support Ron Paul]

No, I cited Chris Hedges and Glenn Greenwald. You should read their articles and inform yourself on the truth of the Obama administration. It is sad when people buy the media representation rather than the truth wholesale. Also, I'm not jumping any ship. I'm an Independent. Partisan loyalty = slavery. I'm sorry but I am more informed than you are, obviously. Staying loyal to the Democrats DOES NOT help the cause of the people in any way. Can't you see that they serve the Elite? Or do you watch too much MSNBC?

You fit exactly into the mold created for you by the Democratic party. You are not an independent thinker. People like you (the majority) are the reason why we will always remain slaves to the elite. Wake up already!

WTF are you talking about. Use your eyes. People like you are voted up and people like me are voted down so quit playing the victim. You are the majority.

PS I certainly don't hate you. I disagree with you. That is all.

Your votes are yours. I don't mind if you vote me down when you disagree with me. I know my views differ from that of the majority so I expect to be voted down when I criticize Obama. It's ok. Don't sweat it.

That reasoning is incorrect. I support neither the Democrats or Republicans (who run the opponent's camp -- by opponent I mean the elite owners of this country), and I'm an independent. Come on now, you aren't being fair here. I do not support the Republicans. It really isn't worth anything to claim that I do. Your reasoning is that if I'm not with the Democrats that I am aligned with the enemy, right? Doesn't that sound like the kind of reasoning that Republicans use to call people anti-American? It's rather childish and flat out false.

Again, look at the votes. There is no extreme opposition to your or Kabuki's position. You are the majority. My comments are the ones being voted down.

LOL This comment is nonsense. I am appealing to the facts. I am not self-righteous by any stretch of the imagination. What is fanatical about me exactly? It seems that I must state what should be obvious -- Just because I named Chris Hedges and Glenn Greenwald doesn't mean they are my only source of information, therefore I do not base my political philosophy on "some journalist" either.

Ever hear of independently researching the facts of a journalist before you outright "screw" them? It's easy to attack the journalist, but I challenge you to give me a concrete example of where Chris Hedges or Glenn Greenwald are factually incorrect. Show me that you really are capable of using reason.

Is this what you consider an incredible job:

Note: I'm quoting Glenn Greenwald again here, if you have a problem with that, then don't attack Greenwald (ad hominems are a cop-out); address the statements in the quote itself.

"President Obama — himself holds heinous views on a slew of critical issues and himself has done heinous things with the power he has been vested. He has slaughtered civilians — Muslim children by the dozens — not once or twice, but continuously in numerous nations with drones, cluster bombs and other forms of attack. He has sought to overturn a global ban on cluster bombs. He has institutionalized the power of Presidents — in secret and with no checks — to target American citizens for assassination-by-CIA, far from any battlefield. He has waged an unprecedented war against whistleblowers, the protection of which was once a liberal shibboleth. He rendered permanently irrelevant the War Powers Resolution, a crown jewel in the list of post-Vietnam liberal accomplishments, and thus enshrined the power of Presidents to wage war even in the face of a Congressional vote against it. His obsession with secrecy is so extreme that it has become darkly laughable in its manifestations, and he even worked to amend the Freedom of Information Act (another crown jewel of liberal legislative successes) when compliance became inconvenient.

He has entrenched for a generation the once-reviled, once-radical Bush/Cheney Terrorism powers of indefinite detention, military commissions, and the state secret privilege as a weapon to immunize political leaders from the rule of law. He has shielded Bush era criminals from every last form of accountability. He has vigorously prosecuted the cruel and supremely racist War on Drugs, including those parts he vowed during the campaign to relinquish — a war which devastates minority communities and encages and converts into felons huge numbers of minority youth for no good reason. He has empowered thieving bankers through the Wall Street bailout, Fed secrecy, efforts to shield mortgage defrauders from prosecution, and the appointment of an endless roster of former Goldman, Sachs executives and lobbyists. He’s brought the nation to a full-on Cold War and a covert hot war with Iran, on the brink of far greater hostilities. He has made the U.S. as subservient as ever to the destructive agenda of the right-wing Israeli government. His support for some of the Arab world’s most repressive regimes is as strong as ever.

Most of all, America’s National Security State, its Surveillance State, and its posture of endless war is more robust than ever before. The nation suffers from what National Journal‘s Michael Hirsh just christened “Obama’s Romance with the CIA.” He has created what The Washington Post just dubbed “a vast drone/killing operation,” all behind an impenetrable wall of secrecy and without a shred of oversight. Obama’s steadfast devotion to what Dana Priest and William Arkin called “Top Secret America” has severe domestic repercussions as well, building up vast debt and deficits in the name of militarism that create the pretext for the “austerity” measures which the Washington class (including Obama) is plotting to impose on America’s middle and lower classes."

It shows you know nothing about this topic. All you know how to do is go into a thread and shake your Obama pom poms. Not impressed.

Looks like he can't provide you with any specifics.

Was my comment directed at you? No.
It was directed at two commentators who send hate PM's when they can't justify their opinions , or control their emotions on the board.

Paranoid much?
Again, look at to whom my comments were directed. That tells the story.
If you want to make assumptions, do so , but I won't be held responsible for you reading things into what I say.

How convenient! Blame the target, not the one who pulls the trigger. Be careful your nationalism is showing.

USA: "Sorry we blew up your baby lady, but see that red stain on the ground? Blame him. He was the one who was standing next to your baby. We are fighting for your democracy!"

LADY: "You know, from that perspective, you're right. If my baby has to die so you can spread democracy to our primitive nation, then so be it. I feel much better now. It's all the terrorist's fault for not standing in the middle of nowhere."

So correct. So voted up!

You are definitely going off on an emotional tangent,
and here I had such high hopes for you.

he blamed the terrorist,for using civilians as cover,,,always do.

Misplaced condescension becomes you.

I understand that, but while that may excuse the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians for some people, it does not for me.

It is shocking to me that all you have to do to get some liberals to support someone like Bush is to put a D next to his name. Either that or just make people more afraid of the ones with an R. That's really all it takes. You can see that fact demonstrated right here in some of the comments.

But he's not Bush!

"forced to follow a leader"?

I disagree. We are NOT "forced" to follow any leader who makes decisions that will endanger (kill) innocent people.

I agree with the part of being forced to follow a leader since I'm sure it was meant as our ELECTED leader of the United State of America.

In fact, I agree with your whole post.

Any *SANE* individual like you knows I mean when a person votes one president and they get another they are in essence forced to follow their leadership.

Spooky list, Man. Real spooky.

I don't do the closet thing, so couldn't comment on that.
Everything else--well, I'm gonna watch myself from now on.
Sure would hate to oxidize and rust away!

Cults?

Trippy! Follow the leader.

Say what? You obviously didn't live in the 60s or 70s.
Maybe where you come from, people have been
forced to follow a certain type "leader", but not in
a free society. Huh uh. We don't play that in a
DEMOCRACY.

No thanks. No cults for me; I don't follow anyone.

I also know that I don't have to feel "forced" to follow any "elected" president. After all, Bush was "elected". Nuff said.

See I'mo gonna have to think about that.

You don't recognize satire at all?

He was being a smartass before he made the well informed last portion of his comment. We do in fact have to follow our leader...our POTUS to be exact. Doesn't matter who you voted for and I don't like war or anyone being killed but it is a very sad fact that happens.

Nothing trippy about it.

I follow my POTUS. Nuff said.
How long is this sock going to be around tonight? I have things to do.

Cool. There's way too much emotionalism
with the missing info that's NOT provided in
this article. One thing a Lib/Dem knows is
when NOT to buy Foxisms!

Keep the peace, bro!

Yes, Bush was elected. Twice in fact.

And yes, we ALL had no choice but to choke down on whatever he did. The other choice is to leave the US.
Nuff said.

Did you move when Bush was in office then?

My personal life is absolutely none of your business.

Don't include me in your "we". You do not speak for me.

LOL!

I didn't ask about your personal life. The only way to get away from an American President is to move out of this country.
Disagree with them all you want, I do loud and clear being a progressive. Call them out and hold their feet to the fire. Hold them accountable, but there is only so far that is going to get people.

What you do with your personal life is of no concern to me. Zero.

Fly solo or any other way you want.

When I say "we"...It is citizens of the U.S.
You have plenty in your drawer to speak for you when needed.

Oh my!! Look what you started..:-)

Sock galore and I see a couple of removed profiles already. Wish I had longer to play tonight.
XOXOXO

(((Muaw))) xoxoxo.

Sock are good for cold damp feet.