Community | April 29, 2012 | 167 comments

Religion is the Problem ! Behold Reality, stop living in the 15th Century, I (God) command you!

source: http://www.this-page-intentionally-left-blank.org/

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kennymotown

http://www.this-page-intentionally-left-blank.org/

It's Sunday, time to crucify Religion.

I am borrowing some words of importance, cause the time is at hand we have big problems to face and ignorance on a epic scale confront us all. Civilization as we know it will cease to exist if rational thinking is not accepted as the word instead of mythical words from dead ideas thousands of years ago.

Let's start by asking a question: Does it matter? God is imaginary. God does not answer prayers, God did not write the Bible and Jesus is not God. In other words, the God of popular religion is completely imaginary.

But does it really matter? What difference does it make if half of the people in the United States want to believe in an imaginary being? What does it hurt?

Let's ignore the danger that can be found in the ashes of 9/11/2001, and the subsequent events in Afghanistan, Iraq, Madrid and London. There are many zealous and misguided Muslims who believe that, through Jihad, they must kill non-Muslims -- Christians and Jews in particular. And there are many Christains who, ignoring Jesus' teachings, wish to retaliate in kind. Let's ignore that.

Let's ignore the ill effects of religion around the world over the last several decades. We have Muslims killing Christians (and vice versa), Jews killing Muslims (and vice versa), Protestants killing Catholics (and vice versa), Shiites killing Sunnis (and vice versa), etc., etc. All of it is completely pointless, because all human gods are imaginary. But let's ignore all of that killing and destruction.

Let's also ignore all of the insanity that religion has brought us through the ages -- the crusades, the witch hunts and all the rest.

And let's ignore all the people that religion oppresses -- the women, the people who have been enslaved, the people who happen to be homosexual, etc. Let's ignore it because it is all water under the bridge.

Even today in the United States -- a modern, advanced nation -- religion creates problems. The delusion created by Christianity is so extreme and so pervasive at the moment that we have Supreme Court justices and politicians who publicly claim that God handed down the Ten Commandments to us in the Bible. These justices and politicians are speaking about a book that openly advocates slavery and misogyny along with many other notions that are beyond absurd. Yet no one can question their claims in public because it is far too dangerous.

To have otherwise intelligent Americans babbling on about an imaginary God like this is dangerous, if for no other reason than this one: If so many people are this delusional in the area of religion, it makes you wonder where else they harbor equally significant delusions in their thinking. In addition, religion in America is now actively restraining scientific research and social progress. The problem that American scientists are having with stem cells is just one of the many manifestations of the problem today.

There is also growing evidence that the delusion of religion causes significant social dysfunction. Statistical research is revealing the problems that go with religious delusion. For example, a recent article in the Journal of Religion and Society points out that religion is correlated to the significant social difficulties that we can see in America:

In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies . The most theistic prosperous democracy, the U.S., is exceptional, but not in the manner Franklin predicted. The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developed democracies, sometimes spectacularly so, and almost always scores poorly. The view of the U.S. as a “shining city on the hill” to the rest of the world is falsified when it comes to basic measures of societal health.
The prevailing view is that religion is harmless even if it is delusional. That turns out not to be the case. America is the most religious country of those studied in the developed world. America also has the biggest problems in terms of things like homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion.
Religion is delusion. A planet full of delusional people is not healthy.

A secondary problem

Religion causes a secondary problem as well. Religion creates significant free-speech and free-thinking issues both here in the United States and around the world. Let me help you to understand what I mean when I say that, and offer a solution to the problem.

Let's imagine that any normal, intelligent American were to stand up in public today and say something like this: "I do not believe that an all-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing God wrote the Bible or the Ten Commandments. The reason why I don't believe it is because the Bible openly advocates slavery and misogyny in both the Old and New Testaments. God could not love slavery or hate women."

It is time for Americans, both religious and non, to openly discuss the evidence showing that God is imaginary. Let's stop hiding the discussion, or attacking it. Let's talk openly. Let us have an honest, open, rational, civil conversation about all of the evidence that we have seen in this book. If we have that debate in an open forum, the majority of us will reach agreement that God is imaginary.
Within seconds of making this honest, completely rational statement, that American will be branded as an atheist.

In today's America, being branded as an atheist is poisonous. It is as poisonous as being branded during the McCarthy era in the 1950s. Imagine someone who has been branded as an atheist trying to run for public office in America today. Many christians are so polarized and so sensitive right now that they will crush anyone with an opinion contrary to their own. Once branded as an atheist, the candidate is attacked in the public forum.

Then look at the rest of the world. In many Islamic countries, women cannot freely choose how they dress, much less what they do, where they work or how they behave. They often cannot even drive a car. The repression of women's freedom in Islamic countries is well known, and ridiculous.

There really is only one solution. It is time for Americans, both religious and non, to openly discuss the evidence showing that God is imaginary. Let's stop hiding the discussion, or attacking it. Let's talk openly.

If we have that debate in an open forum, the majority of us will reach agreement that God is imaginary.


If we can understand the reasons and deal with them rationally rather than through the silliness and mythology that is religion, we actually can do ourselves a great deal of good.
  1. groups:
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  2. tags:
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167 comments // Religion is the Problem ! Behold Reality, stop living in the 15th Century, I (God) command you!

  • cherry5000
  • kennymotown
  • JustZ
    • +3
      JustZ  

    • I could be born in the bush with no language whatsoever and I'd still know basic right from wrong. In particular, that treating human beings with respect and compassion should always be my first reaction to any problem.

    • 1 year ago
  • Kelly_Balthrop
  • kennymotown
    • 0
      kennymotown  
    • Kelly_Balthrop:

      Good stuff Kelly, good fined. It is my belief the church has become a center for the Elite to brain wash many on political issue's that really should be for society to figure out. Take for instance abortion, I have never in my life saw so many religious people getting totally caught up in this issue to the point they become a one issue voter prepared to constantly vote against their own best interests.

    • 1 year ago
  • Kelly_Balthrop
    • 0
      Kelly_Balthrop  
    • kennymotown:

      Religion has always been a very effective tool for working the masses into a frenzy, to create a mob mentality in a group of otherwise decent people. Some of the nicest people you will ever meet start out as Christians, then the church and their political puppeteers get ahold of them and put the full fervor of their faith behind some ideology that may or may not even be related to their religion. Thinking they are acting in the interest of their faith, with surrender of objective reasoning, and the absence of any need for responsibility they can a very cruel and vicious group. I would be safer in a pit of vipers than a room full of Christians.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +1
      Incredulous  
    • Kelly_Balthrop:

      I don't disagree with what you are saying, at least not in principle, but isn't what you are describing more a function of stupidity and/or naivete than it is a function of religion? I am just really discouraged by the way it seems so easy for people to hang all of society's woes on one of many traditions. I understand the current nonsense the GOP is masquerading under is exactly what you describe it as, but it seems very intellectually short-sighted and dishonest to try to claim that religion is the problem. I suspect that the real problem is mankind itself, and, as you have stated, Christianity, or any religion, is a tool very easily wielded to control the gullible, or those who are willing to be led.

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • Kelly_Balthrop
    • 0
      Kelly_Balthrop  
    • Incredulous:

      There are no real flaws in human nature; it is what it is.

      You claim that the system isn't broken, it's human nature thats flawed, but that is a false analysys. Every system must function, for better or wrose, within the constraints of human nature. A good system is one that is fair and efficient after the factors of human nature are applied. Any system that breaks down because of human nature, is therefore a flawed system because it does not utilize human nature in a good way.

      Is it simply a flaw of human nature that people can be swayed by charasmtic leaders to do their bidding. Or is the flaw in a cultural institution that empowers charasmatic leaders to manipulate people.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • 0
      Incredulous  
    • Kelly_Balthrop:

      both...I tend to eschew either/or explanations...the possibilities we haven't considered are probably endless.....

      and delightfully expanded systems break down there....I definitely agree that human nature is what it is....and I don't think I was claiming that the system isn't broken, never really thought of it in terms of whole or broken, but I like your 'good system' description, engineer by chance? I absolutely agree, and believe that any system that does not factor in human nature...is doomed to fail.

    • 1 year ago
  • FoosMaster
    • +2
      FoosMaster  

    • I truly don't know for certain if there is a "God" or not so I will reserve my opinion of that for now.
      But, I do know that organized "Religion" is a serious problem in society today and is used by the church leaders and political figures for their own personal ends. The tenants of most organized religions are for the most part good Advice such as “treat others as you would have them treat you” and many other good ideas. The problem I see is that organized “Religions” for the most part are structured in a way that allows societal leaders to control the followers of their religion to get them to do their bidding and as the old saying goes; “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” thus there is MUCH corruption in the religions of today. That is why I do not follow Any organized religion!

    • 1 year ago
  • JustZ
    • +2
      JustZ  

    • IMHO, the #1 consequence with dumping religion altogether... (in all its forms) is that once you come to this realization that Religion is completely fear based brainwashing (to control the masses) the huge lightning bolt that dawns on you is- "uh oh...(gulp) but that means ITS ALL UP TO US! There's nobody up there looking out for me after all. This means I have to take responsibility for humanity. That my actions, my prejudice, my selfish isolationist behavior may just be counter productive to existence.

      This mind numbing epiphany literally rocks the very foundation of most mortals daily existence. But then, truth tends to do that.

      Thanks again Kenny.

    • 1 year ago
  • mrpuma2u
    • +4
      mrpuma2u  

    • One of the few funny things about the tea bag jerk-holes is that they "embrace the ideas" of Ayn Rand, but are too stupid to know that Ayn Rand was a rabid atheist, and thought that anyone who believed in any religion was a gullible buffoon.

    • 1 year ago
  • cherry5000
  • Valorie
  • Kelly_Balthrop
  • kennymotown
  • JustZ
    • 0
      JustZ  
    • Kelly_Balthrop:

      Indeed... that's the toughest row to hoe.

      Maybe the only way you break that mold is to show a multitude of examples over and over again for how religion continues to harm and limit humanity.

    • 1 year ago
  • JustZ
    • +1
      JustZ  

    • This may qualify as the best post of the year. Voted waaaaay up Kenny.

      This is the kind of post that many of us need to work towards with our opinions here at Current. It's clear, fair, to the point...and offers suggestions for overcoming obstacles to progress. Thanks for thinking Kenny!

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • JustZ
    • +1
      JustZ  
    • kennymotown:

      All that matters, is that you said it out loud.

      Religion is wrapped around intolerance. For me, tolerating intolerance is no longer an acceptable way to live among bipeds.

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • DEM46
    • +1
      DEM46  

    • This is a very rational argument and one that will probably never work in the short-term. We (Americans - nevermind those who follow Islam) will never acquiesce to anyone who dare raise the idea that their "god" is imaginary and that their prophet (Jesus or Mohammad) was just a guy with some unique ideas for his time.

      Evidence be damned! that's what faith is for.

      It consistently saddens my heart that we continually regress as humans.

    • 1 year ago
  • circlesquared
    • +1
      circlesquared  

    • religion is a man-made obstruction to spirituality and is very much a tool to control the herd. That being said, there is a great deal of history in the twisted texts of the world's religions from which knowledge and understanding can spring forth. For me the metaphor of leaving paradise over gaining knowledge is an important example. To understand can not be accomplished if everything stays perfect and you never have to consider a lesson. Without bad we would not know good and that starts the path to right action...to see. understand. and dismiss wrong and be left with right for all is the goal.

    • 1 year ago
  • fiberbundle
    • +3
      fiberbundle  

    • Psychologically, its very difficult for those who were indoctrinated at a young age to make a clean break, even though they may have doubts about the existence of god(s). You see this manifested in the "I'm an agnostic" attitude; or "I'm going to follow my own 'spiritual' (belief in god(s) by any other name is still a rose) path.
      the trouble is when they finally realize its truly a "dead" end, they are already old and marginalized; and so the beat goes on.

      Another difficulty is the substitution of civil ceremonies and rituals for deity based counterparts. Historically we see a migration from "pagan" to Unigod rituals; but not from deist to civil in the historical record.

    • 1 year ago
  • zampano
  • fiberbundle
    • +3
      fiberbundle  
    • zampano:

      "However, I will always remain grateful for that solid grounding in biblical studies as a purely intellectual exercise in cultural history (highly recommended as background information for anyone wishing to study literature or art history)"

      You make a good point and I agree with your statement. I was emphasizing the "clean" modifier because we all carry our experiences with us even if our rational mind has drawn new conlusions from the accumulation of experience and learning.

    • 1 year ago
  • zampano
  • fiberbundle
    • +2
      fiberbundle  
    • zampano:

      "...continuing fascination with the bible, even among atheists"

      Again I agree.We have living cultures attached to the narrative in the Bible. By overlaying archaeological and anthropological data sets we can examine the political, economic, and religious changes, and to me, most importantly the cyclicality of human history and western thought from around 1300 B.C. to the present.

      The Bible is also a common reference source for the Western world because almost every child, whether Jew, Moslem or Christian is familiar with it.,

    • 1 year ago
  • JustZ
    • 0
      JustZ  
    • zampano:

      :"it's very difficult for those who were indoctrinated at a young age to make a clean break, "

      Alas zampano ...you're clearly the exception. I think fiberbundle is spot on. To dump religion requires faith alright; faith in ones self. Religious brainwashing may just be THE toughest addiction of them all to kick to the curb. But I'm glad to see there are those out there like yourself who've done it! :-)

    • 1 year ago
  • TanzaniteDiamonds
    • 0
      TanzaniteDiamonds  
    • JustZ:

      I, respectfully, disagree that zampano is "clearly the exception".
      Just because others who have "kicked it to the curb" aren't here to let us know about it doesn't mean they don't exist.
      You can include me in, too. I was indoctrinated at a young age, but kicked Catholicism curbside, because it's pure brainwashing. You can also add my Mother to the list, as well.

    • 1 year ago
  • Truthitswhatsfordinner
  • artemis6
  • Truthitswhatsfordinner
  • artemis6
  • Louise_Haig
    • +1
      Louise_Haig  
    • Truthitswhatsfordinner:

      I do not dispute that religious groups globally have and continue to do good things for society and people in need, Christian Aid being a very good example. However the sooner religion is taken completely out of the policial equation globally, the better a place the world will be.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • 0
      Incredulous  
    • Louise_Haig:

      basically agree with that statement.....theocracies and nations that attempt to govern based upon religious texts seem to have always been, and will probably always be, cruel and inhumane places to live.

    • 1 year ago
  • Mark701
  • kennymotown
  • kennymotown
  • ThirdSection
  • kennymotown
  • artemis6
    • +2
      artemis6  

    • " Religion is delusion . A planet full of delusional people , is not healthy . " THAT is an excellent study in logic . Great article . Great post .

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • Ricky84
  • kennymotown
  • DeliaTheArtist
  • ThirdSection
  • EgolfRobert
    • +4
      EgolfRobert  

    • There is no harm in religion so long as every person's belief system is privately held, and everyone agrees that what the next man believes, so long as his behaviour is lawful, is no other person's business. It is when religion becomes public that the mischief begins. The urge to convert others, by argument and sometimes by force, leads inevitably to abuse, and ends in believing it is holy to eradicate those who do not agree with you. Proselytisation is the hellhole that seduces religion into a force for evil.

    • 1 year ago
  • Gravity_Man
  • jubal
    • +1
      jubal  
    • Gravity_Man:

      Indeed, religions are interwoven with government. Its a symbiotic relationship that the two have. Even the USA, which is supposed to be a modern industrialized secular nation is overrun with religious wackos who are trying to usher in a theocracy or at the very least an age of American Ayatollahs.

    • 1 year ago
  • EngineeredObsolescence
    • +6
      EngineeredObsolescence  

    • According to many political scholars the single best model of democracy in history was that set by the Iroquois, in the "Iroquois League" (also been known as the Iroquois Confederacy)....

      Some of those same scholars so fond of the Iroquois even think the phrase; "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union." in the constitution was a reference to the Union of the Iroquois...

      That still to this day, their model as they were discovered by Europeans, before we destroyed their land and culture, was/is the best way to have a DEMOCRACY.... (you know actual democracy, not this sick perversion we have today.)

      Okay so where am I going.....?

      They had a RELIGION, they were SPIRITUAL.... Not what we generally accept, or are repulsed by as "religion" or "spirituality" today, but it certainly was a religion.

      So you've got to think, is really religion the problem? Is it a specific religion? Is it the interpretations or the way it's practiced. What is it?

      Because the concept that the all encompassing term "religion" is the source of our problems....? Obviously bullshit.

      Further the main religion in this country = CONSUMERISM, and the the legally binding definitions of the goal of CORPORATIONS.... Now people use "religion" to steal money from others, sexually abuse others, control others, and more... This is well known, but that doesn't speak to all religion, or all those that believe in "God"....

      Also, and I'm pretty sure most of you don't want to acknowledge it, the belief in "evolution", essentially Darwinism, has not only turned itself into in a RELIGION or CULT at times, it's the manipulation of evolutionary thought that lead to the HOLOCAUST. Lead to Eugenics, and all kinds of twisted justification for elitism.

      So there really isn't a cut and dry side and a moral high ground as far as claiming religion is superior to Darwinism, or vise versa.... Claim all you want show me that spotless historical record for ANY belief system.....?

      Besides, if people would quit lying to themselves and really look at it.....

      All those people using "Religion" to justify there psychopathic goals, aren't following any sort of actual religion, no real form of Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism... They aren't behind those child molester in priests robes, aren't behind the televangelist, aren't behind those excusing genocide, aren't supporting the war on Palestine, or even whichever idiots flew planes into buildings or blew themselves up.... Don't think any of the Native American Indians "Religions" are the driving forces behind the worlds problems either....

      Anyway the; the elitists, the psychopaths, rapists, murderers, war mongers, all the horrible shit characters of the world.... Yeah they find their way into, or try to worm their way into religion, convince allot of people they are who they claim upon occasion...

      But all the SICK FUCKS, can so much more easily justify their actions to themselves by claiming they are SUPERIOR with "evolution", "survival of the fittest", by believing the myth; "I have EVOLVED to my level of entitlement.".... By buying into the consumerist mantra; "ME ME ME, MORE MORE MORE", they justify the McMansions.....

      Yeah you don't justify all the bullshit in the world by mostly rejecting; material possessions, material wealth, and at least in the case of Jesus or his followers rejecting the whole damn establishment from religion, to politics, to the notions of consumerism...

      Hitler was an Atheist, believed evolution, created a whole "RELIGION" around it, called it EUGENICS, killed allot of people that way....

      Nice try though...

    • 1 year ago
  • PersianVoice
    • +5
      PersianVoice [removed]  
    • EngineeredObsolescence:

      Excuse me, but please do not blame Hitler for the creation of Eugenics. Men such as Winston Churchill, Alexander Graham Bell and even Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes were embracing this long before Hitler studied its active implementation in America. And the last forced sterilization occurred in America in 1981, almost 4 decades after Hitler's policies were eradicated in Germany.

      Nice try though.....

    • 1 year ago
  • crabbyoldguy
    • -4
      crabbyoldguy  
    • PersianVoice:

      That's right, don't forget that the progressives were behind the eugenics movement here in the US and that Hitler contacted them to learn more about it.

      Obama's Science “Czar” John Holdren, really likes eugenics.

      Swing and a miss ?

    • 1 year ago
  • crabbyoldguy
  • artemis6
    • +5
      artemis6  
    • EngineeredObsolescence:

      They were religious , yes . They believed in the great tree . Life was their religion . Life is real . You can experience it . It is a spiritual way of seeing everything that exists . That seems a lot less delusional than some other religions , as it is ... a perspective on reality , NOT a denial of reality . Perhaps that is why their democracy was effective for hundreds of years ... and ours has fallen to the shallowest of winds . Consumerism .

    • 1 year ago
  • unimatrix0
    • 0
      unimatrix0  
    • Image
    • EngineeredObsolescence:

      Hitler was a Christian, who used Christian symbolism quite effectively in his rise to power.

      I encourage you to study some history, as well as some biology, as it is obvious you know little if anything about either subject.

      Nice try though...

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • coolplanet
  • jimstoner
    • +1
      jimstoner  
    • unimatrix0:

      I have had a long running debate with a conservative Christian friend about Nazis either being atheists or Christians. When the evidence I provided of their Christianity became so overwhelming, he had to change his tune.

      Here is the explanation he provided for Hitler's Christianity. He said "Hitler had to claim to be a Christian in order to maintain power in a Christian nation". When I pointed out to him that he had just said the only thing Hitler had to do to get Christians to embrace Naziism was to claim he was one of them, he did not appreciate it very much.

      Now that he has had to admit to himself that the Nazis are Christians, and still pride themselves in being Christians to this day, he has recognized his own Christian need to make excuses for Christianity.

      It is the first time I have ever witnessed him attempt to critically think.

    • 1 year ago
  • ThirdSection
  • zampano
  • JanforGore
    • +2
      JanforGore  
    • unimatrix0:

      Do you have a source for that quote or did you take it from an atheist website? Do you honestly think calling Hitler a Christian somehow makes all of us who follow the words of Christ like Hitler? Isn't that ignorant? Or is your own hatred for those who dare to say they have faith that strong that you don't care? Hitler was evil incarnate and spoke out of both sides of his mouth. He used the church (as evidenced in Mein Kampf) for his own means as it was too big to fight outwardly. If you were a sociopath and wanted to gain favor of the people you wanted to ultimately conquer, would you not espouse the religion of those you wanted to conquer to gain their trust? It is said he even had plans to kill higher ups in the Catholic Church and the Pope himself. Do you really think he wanted to share power with anyone?

      The Nazis were actually more into neopaganism and mysticism (and used specific tactics of hypnosis when addressing crowds,) studying Norse legend (his fascination with Richard Wagner part of that) and spent much time searching out Christian artifacts such as the Holy Grail and the purported spear that pierced the side of Christ in order to master them to conquer Christianity as he saw it as the religion created "by the Jews." He was a user, manipulator and a murderer. He was not into truly adhering to any religion but his own Godliness that he felt was innate in him. HE was God to him, and there was no religion above him.

      It is absurd to think he would truly be the follower of the words of Christ who spoke of peace, love and equality with his master plan to rid the world of those he saw as subhuman to see the Aryan race supreme. He used what he had to in order to achieve his maniacal goals. He is a very poor example to use in trying to zing all Christians simply because you hate. Oh, and the swastika is not a Christian symbol but dates back to ancient India and remains widely used in Hinduism and Buddhism. Does that make all Buddhists like Hitler as well? I don't think so.

    • 1 year ago
  • jimstoner
  • Incredulous
    • +3
      Incredulous  
    • Image
    • unimatrix0:

      You have absolutely no proof that Hitler was a Christian...you have a political statement, but no proof in either his life or his writings that Hitler espoused any of the teachings of Christianity. He used Christianity to manipulate people, but that did not make him a Christian. Very shallow conclusion to make....to claim that religion or Christianity is the source of all of anything is just ignorant. A simple Venn diagram would prove that point if you were not so blinded by your own feelings.....

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
  • unimatrix0
    • -3
      unimatrix0  
    • Image
    • JanforGore:

      A picture is worth a 1,000 words.

      I was simply refuting the claim that Hitler was an atheist. Hitler was not an atheist, but many ignorant people try to claim he was.

      Hitler used Christian symbolism and was endorsed by many Christian leaders. This is a matter of historical fact, and available to anyone who cares to do the research.

      As for who is a "true Christian," please see No True Scotsman fallacy.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +3
      Incredulous  
    • unimatrix0:

      leaving out the word true....your photo proves nothing other than what has been stated repeatedly, and that is that religion is a tool that is often used to control and manipulate gullible people, but the real evil lies with the human wielding said tool and the gullible who are willing to be led. It is ignorant and childish to try to make the tool responsible for what the man does with it.

    • 1 year ago
  • unimatrix0
    • -3
      unimatrix0  
    • Image
    • Incredulous:

      Why not just do a little research? It is no secret. Hitler's Christianity is a matter of historical record.

      Who knows what was in Hitler's heart, or anyone's heart. But Hitler always professed to be a Christian, and hated and executed communists in large part because they were atheists.

      Here is one source, but there are many, and it is not in dispute.
      http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +3
      Incredulous  
    • unimatrix0:

      hardly what I would call research, there is an entire political and historical context to everything you are trying to claim, that cannot be ignored....and there's a lot of information out there that is not in dispute, simply because it is not worthy of disputing.

      Whether or not someone professes Christianity, does not a Christian make....but I wouldn't expect an atheist to understand something like that, nor would I waste my time trying to explain it.

    • 1 year ago
  • jimstoner
    • +5
      jimstoner  

    • One of the most insidious things about religion is faith.

      People raised in religion are told to have faith, and evidence is not only not needed, but irrelevant. They are taught that their faith makes it true, and evidence of their beliefs is not necessary. They are famous for asking others to prove their beliefs wrong when they have no problem claiming proof of their beliefs is their faith. Because they are taught that their beliefs are all that matters, and evidence means nothing, it only follows that what they don't believe in is not true, and evidence to the contrary is to be ignored.

      This is where science denial comes in. The mind that runs on faith is sure that if they believe it is true, it is. That same faith driven mind will think if they believe it is not true, it isn't. Evidence be damned.

      Ask a christian what their lack of belief in something that has evidence to back it up actually means, and they will tell you their disbelief means it isn't true. I've done it and received the same answer every time.

    • 1 year ago
  • artemis6
  • kennymotown
  • jimstoner
  • kennymotown
  • unimatrix0
  • kennymotown
  • coolplanet
  • Incredulous
  • unimatrix0
  • Incredulous
    • +2
      Incredulous  
    • unimatrix0:

      First, I am so NOT embarrassed, and listing a lot of very talented people who are atheists still does not prove your point. In fact, there is much I can agree with....people who are not religious tend to be far more curious about the world they live in, and it is that curiosity that has led so many of them to greatness....I absolutely do not dispute that...but this was not always the case. Greatness in any field was not always something that was divorced from religious belief, and yes, there is definitely something wrong in the world with religion, but it is not ALL that is wrong in the world, and it is NOT the sole cause of what ails us. I know this is your belief, and I'm not going to try to change your mind, but neither am I going to pretend that I agree. For me, that is a simple answer to a much more complex question.

      I am sorry if you felt attacked...never my intention. Much as I disagree with your conclusions, I still value your point of view.

    • 1 year ago
  • JanforGore
    • +2
      JanforGore  
    • unimatrix0:

      Carl Sagan was an agnostic and Galileo Galilei considered joining the priesthood as a young man. Both brilliant men of science who forwarded our species. Why must people always make divisions while claiming to be tolerant and progressive?

    • 1 year ago
  • Louise_Haig
  • ThunderHeart
    • +1
      ThunderHeart  

    • Look....while I agree that the Christian Bible is a collection of MYTHS, as is the Koran, as is every other "holy book"....all that proves is what any thinking person can figure out---MEN write BOOKS. God has yet to pen so much as a shopping list. But this does not prove that GOD does not exist. It just proves He, She or IT doesnt write books, messages to people or so much as a limeric to "prove" his/her/It's existence.

      Religion is BS, OK. I agree. OTOH, since nary a one of us has died and come back to tell of it, the only accurate/honest reply to the Question is, "I dont know". IF there is a God, I fail to see why IT should look anything like a human. I cant imagine why God would NEED a penis, for instance....I mean, what would he DO with it? Being an Energgetic Being, rather than a biological Being, clearly, there's no need to pee. Do Energetic Beings have sex? Do they masturbate? Without a body.....what would be the point?

      I tend to think of God as a Creative Force....not an old guy with a beard, ala Charlton Heston. IT creates outwardly from Itself, never stopping. IF IT stopped, the universe would blink out of existence....same way it blinked IN. IT is self-aware. Everyhtin IT Creates is created OF ITself--thus everything that exists in the natural Universe IS, literally "made of " God, or to put it more succinctly, IS God.

      It's clear that people fashioned God of their own limited abilities to imagine what God must be. No surprise people imagined a human looking deity. No surprise they also imagined a judgmental, punishing "father" type, either. (Im talking about Islam/Christians--their God is a patriarch, while earlier religions imagined God to be the Mother). All Im saying is, natch, ancient peoples would assume a human-ish sort of deity.

      In the 20th century, Quantum physics explained that every thing is pretty much made of NOTHING. Tiny blinks of whirling particles, or waves, (depending), surrounded by...well, nothingness. It occurs to me that God may be that empty space, the Void. You could call IT the Void of Potential, that is, God is the Emptyness from which All things are made manifest.

      All this just to say---that religion is bullshit does not, by any means, prove there is no God. It just proves humans have failed, time and time again, to KNOW the true nature of the Creator....so they filled in the gaps with their imaginations. So, humans failed. Doesnt mean God did.

      Humans IMAGINE that God SHOULD take care of us....answer our prayers, make sure nothing bad ever happens to us....and when inevitably, some bad shit does happen....people say, "See? There is no God! IF there were...he wouldnt have let poor old Grandma die of cancer!"

      The Truth may be, God doesnt have a damn thing to do with what happens to us. IT created this impressive universe....gave US this incredibly lovely planet, provided water, fire air and eart.h Everything we could possibly need.

      Why cant that be enough for us?

      And...when WE fuck it up....who's fault is it?

    • 1 year ago
  • JanforGore
    • +7
      JanforGore  

    • "It's Sunday, time to crucify Religion."

      I don't know, that seems to be a seven day a week event on Current. I was raised an Evangelical Lutheran and we never imposed our beliefs on anyone and were accepting of all and frankly, I enjoyed the friendships I made with people I met through the church and we did some very good things for our community. Even though as I grew older I grew apart from the church as I was exploring other cultures and came to Gnosticism which fits my soul better, I find generalizations about religion are ignorant as they are just used to impose one's own prejudices. Sure, there are many RWers who use religion as a crutch and those in politics who to me are not true Christians who simply play to those who they think will vote for them ( and they are in many instances too far off the reality meter) but that's not Jesus' fault nor the God they claim to believe in. I don't begrudge anyone their own belief in a higher power if it is a belief that betters our world and one that is not used to hurt others. I tend to believe we do have a place in this universe and that it is a magnificent connection to an energy source within us (call it God or whatever you wish) that is universal, cosmic and perhaps even scientific in nature. Perhaps this year we will see that connection clearer.

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
    • +2
      kennymotown  
    • JanforGore:

      Most of what you have said I agree with, but this sacred cow called religion really does need to be shelved. Debate the continued atrocities in particular the Catholic Church's dirty deeds that haunt human beings all over the world would be a great place to start. I too believe in the universal spirit that runs through us all in a way we can only imagine. Life exists in every corner of the Universe, our time is at hand to leave these superstitions behind and move forward into the real light that is.

    • 1 year ago
  • vaxart
    • +4
      vaxart  
    • JanforGore:

      Personally I like Buddhism, a way of life, - everyone is a Buddha and your purpose is to realize that. Truth when organized becomes a religion and when you get caught in the means and forget its end is when one becomes obsessed.
      An open mind is important - no matter what you follow or not follow......

    • 1 year ago
  • bailey78
  • artemis6
    • +3
      artemis6  
    • JanforGore:

      I wish we COULD let people believe what they want . Sadly , it is the the certain religious mindset , to deny the very nature of our reality . And to propagate this belief in the face of overwhelming evidence . I have noticed , that some religions are more divorced from reality than others . You know better than most , this is a fight for survival . In my reply to engeneeredobsolescience , i point out , some belief systems , include REALITY and profound respect for the Earth . These are more of an experience based system . Faith , and its domination over reason seems to me to be the KEY problem . Any organized religion , is a power structure , for good or ill . The ones we have currently dominating are fascist pyramid structures . As within , so without . These are dangerous religions . faith based , not reality based . I have been thinking about this all my life . The structure of it is sick . Life is not central . This is a needed dialogue .

    • 1 year ago
  • wolfess
    • +1
      wolfess  
    • kennymotown:

      this sacred cow called religion really does need to be shelved.
      I think what needs to be shelved is the anger and vindictiveness that seems to be so rampant with religion these days. If you look at some of the verses in the new testament concerning Jesus and why God sent Him ... For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life ... to me that says God wants us to join Him; it also tells me that if we BELIEVE God, it is NOT OUR PLACE to condemn or judge ANYONE -- it is our place to LIVE our faith, and pray for those who don't believe; it is Jesus' place to bring them to Him. All these 'religious' christians that choose to judge are doing serious harm to God's cause and THAT is what needs to be shelved.

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • savroD
  • unimatrix0
    • 0
      unimatrix0  

    • God is nothing but myth and self-deception.

      Religion is a disease. If humanity does not find a cure, that disease will destroy all of us.

    • 1 year ago
  • coolplanet
    • +7
      coolplanet  
    • unimatrix0:

      Man has rightly been called 'The Religious Animal.' No matter what culture you look at on the face of the planet, a form of religion evolved. There has yet to be a people discovered that don't believe in some form of god.
      Archaeologists have recently discovered that a 11,600 year old temple in Turkey known as Gobekli Tepe inspired the beginning of modern civilization and agriculture (National Geographic, June 2011).
      Perhaps you are right and this was a disease that is destroying Earth and humanity. While that might be true of monotheism I don't think it's true of aborigionals like the American Indian and their Great Spirit.

    • 1 year ago
  • kennymotown
  • unimatrix0
    • -3
      unimatrix0  
    • coolplanet:

      Ignorance is ignorance. It does not matter if it is Native Americans or 21st century Americans being ignorant and embracing religious superstition.

      Arguing that something has always been the case proves nothing. It had always been the case that people did not fly. Now people fly all the time.

      Also, it has always been the case that some parents abuse their children. Sadly, this is still the case. The fact that parents have always abused their children does not make it right, good or desirable.

      The fact that something has always been the case is not an argument.

    • 1 year ago
  • bailey78
  • bailey78
  • coolplanet
    • +6
      coolplanet  
    • unimatrix0:

      Surely you don't believe that humans have been ignorant for tens of thousands of years until athiests recently came along.
      By rejecting all of religion you reject all of our history.

    • 1 year ago
  • unimatrix0
    • -3
      unimatrix0  
    • coolplanet:

      Surely you don't believe atheists only came along "recently." I thought you were a student of history. You might want to continue your studies.

      In addition, you might want to take a class in critical thinking. Pay attention: By rejecting religion, I only reject religion; I say nothing about history. By your logic, if one rejects slavery one would also be rejecting history, since slavery has been around as long as religion.

      Now go hit the books kid, and good luck with that GED.

    • 1 year ago
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