how can you state it was completely unprovoked when the prior footage which is where the provocation would have been isnt present?

you are part of the propaganda problem.
you leave out the part that these "activists" chose the place themselves in front of soldiers posing themselves as oppositiong to the soldiers.as the soldiers job is to guard the check point they seek to pass through.
you leave out the video footage that shows the activists collective efforts that preceeded the events shown.not really your fault entirely as that footage is magicaly missing from all documentation which was dont on the part of the activists.how ever the footage i presented shows the activists waving on more people to flood the line of demarcation right before the anarchy ensues.
you failed to mention israel entirely condemed eisners actions.

further more you over looked that the filming being done is do by a filmaker working on a propalestinian project.a danish film designed to be against israel with these people serving that function.

you are the propaganda that needs to be overcome.im happy to share all the info.im happy to have shalom eisner be condemed,suspended, and so forth.

why is it you arent on the side happy to share all the info?

I suppose if you consider not moving fast enough when your OCCUPYING Oppressor tells you to provocation then the COWARD was provoked.

lenght of time has no bearing on anything.ones actions are still their actions whether done slowly or rapidly.just as no one can absolve the soldier for bashing in the idiots face, equaly, ya cant absolve the idiot for instigating.

which is more propaganda, as you suppose israel has both a superior military force the palestinians cannot compete with, while also supposing they wish to eliminate them, which that military could have done ten times over by now.
keep stoking the flames just like all the other lowly tards in this conflict

um was there or was there not media on standby for the rachel corrie event?or do you suppose media in the region ae all psychic so they just happen to know where to be?

by any stadard as a protest what killed rachel corrie was an even that was staged and well planned, not an organic coincidence.

so you are supposing these europeans who happen to be activists were taking leasurely bike rides not as activists, with palestinian flags in their mouths, which is how every one take bike rides of course.media just happened to know exactly when to show up, and this video captured by the activist side just happens to cut and jump right at the point at which the violence on their part was claimed to be.and fellow activists in bright dayglo colored "dont shoot me" vests happened to be near by.when all together a spontanious propalestinian protest popped up in which all people interviewed had specific positions ready to be stated.
and the biking path just happened to be where their was a check point they knew they wouldnt be able to pass, and rather than turning around to serve the interest of the supposed bike ride they were on they instead chose to spontaniously protest?

that is a lot to pretend.is it tiring altering reality to suite you, or is it a matter of a mania that is a default now?feel free to answer any of the points in the last paragraph how they arent examples of who is full of shit.or stick with the usual petty delegitimazion stuff predicated on nothing substancial what so ever.dont forget to pepper it with petty insults towards me so that id if and when you position is exposed for the bullshit it is you can fall back on me as well.

even if he was a source of finger breaking aggression prior?
i personaly dont think so but im militant like that.the larger point is that israel itself agrees with you as he was punished as a result.
which is as usual isnt reported, and left as an example of how israel functions.when they punish those who act this way.which is kind of ironic how we live and let live those who pepper spray ours in the face while literally just wanting to protest, and condemn those trying to negotiate a war who dont react as aggressively.or at least when they do are reprimanded,rather than made excuses for.

finger breaking aggression? sounds terrible, I feel really bad for him, I guess he is off the hook then

You know i asked you to join your group, Israel and Friends, because i believed in it. But if you're going to defend every negative thing Israel does, then you're in the wrong and it's pointless to support someone that thinks everything Israel and it's people do is always right.

Can't you see no matter what, the soldier was wrong and he had no right to hit the person in the face??

i dont feel bad for him, but i also dont find anyone who is aggressive to a degree that breaks fingers to be absolved in a conflict.
he isnt off the hook, as he has been punished by the israeli gov and condemed for it reagrdless.

can you adress an issue or only respond through emotional platitutes?

you claim their is no justification for what you saw, so i ask you if aggression which is at a level great enought o break fingers is enought to warrant such aggression?or would you not smash in the face of some one who broke your finger while you were manning a check point in an active military conflict?

the deal is i can defend what ever i like as you can decry what ever you like.
you have a predisposition that is not entirely invalid to question the militancy of any police officer or soldier, and i have the opposite when it comes to the idf.

the point being as long as all the information is presented we both still have the option to form our own opinions.you get to still decide the soldier is a gaping asshole.and i am entirely fine with you deciding such.that is the neat part about liberty and being availed of it.

the point is getting the full story as it is as opposed to the selected pieces of information as shared by others.take a trip on over to our resident jewbashing maasavovas page, to see his coverage of events.see how many details of the events that unfoled were left out of his sharing of info, and what pieces they were/

in a perfect world i would like it if this soldier as well as others didnt resort to their most basic animalist instincts when dealing with others.being as they are human beings and flawed just like any others im hardly going to condem them for acting in a manner well within expectations of any human beings, and above our own soldiers.literaly making me wrong to condem an israeli soldier reacting to violence in a conflict while looking the other way as our boys create conflicts and hunt human beings,posed with the bodies as trophy kills, or pee on them.

i can see that the soldier was wrong, as i showed in reporting his punishment.i dont agree tho that he had no right, as we dont know what the fuck happened as the video was magicaly edited.maybe had every right by all standards.maybe he broke is own finger after the fact to create the illusion of having just cuase.we dont get to know being that the video is missing.

what i do know is their is video strategicaly missing, right after we see video of palestinian activists waving on more people to come to the soldiers positions.i do know the bike riding was a cheap ruse for a protest.and i know it is part of what is generaly an ultraviolent conflict.

it doesnt make the sodliers actions right.but it doesnt make the protesters right either, as they set the stage desperately trying to get the lowest behavior themselves.no one has these problems when protesting in tel aviv, but rhey chose soldiers.what alternative would you get from soldiers?what was emily hect looking for?what are any of them expecting?soldiers convey the protestors message up the chain of command till it reaches the prime minister who then changes policy based on it?they want this shit and they got this shit.i know it you know it, and im just not playing ignorant.

As i said before, I joined because i believe not believed, because i haven't changed my stance, but i joined your group because of people like massanova always putting Israel down.

FC, if you're always going to take a stand against the negative and think that shit deserves shit, than how do you expect people to listen to the real message if everything negative that happens in Israel or because of Israel, has no fault?? If that's the case, you can sit here and right 20 pages of answers and no one will listen. No one, not even the people that want to see the positive out of Israel.

Put blame on the soldier and leave it at that, but stop thinking that everything your country does negative, should have an alternate answer and that they're never in the wrong.

take what ever position you like as i would not expect any less.
but you seem to be enthralled with the argument and not so interested in whos offering the info. or what info is being offered which is the most important part is it not?
i dont care if you decided every action israel has ever done is wrong.lord knows their is no shortage of that present here on current right?
yet is everyone like masaanova?do i have beef with everyone?or do i take reasonable arguments as they are?

yes i offered spin in presenting this story as im not a journalist and make no claims to be even remotely objective.i dont think israel is usualy wrong, and that is generaly cuz their opposition is so goddamn wrong it makes it a level hard to exceed.

just like our government is famously wrong, but compared to a saddam hussien regime or an al-queda we tend to be on the right side of matters in the big picture.

the point that matters in this is the truth and all of it.not just the parts that serve a predertimed narrative.i didnt exclude eisner being punished? didnt ignore his errors?i didnt over look the parts that dont please me as it is done by those who initialy report on this shit.

the point is to have all the info present.i dont suppose israel is perfect and every government is a scam as far as im concerned with israel not being an exception.

but i refuse to accept negative views being achieved about israel via lies of omission.ya dont like them based on all the facts?more power to ya.
but those who ignore the provocation of the activists, the fact that these activists sole purpose was to get the very provocation, and these soldiers are engaged in an active conflict that utilizes civilians is not acceptable.

if in light of these realities you still reach the same position so be it.but without that information you are being propagandized to.and that i cant accept.

i personaly feel any moron who steps to any soldier even if they arent engaged in a conflict is asking for trouble.but that is me.

What about MKO ? They are doing the same

a heck of a lot classier than pepper spraying protesters as they sit handcuffed like our boys do, or just slaughtering them as the rest of the middle east does.
but hey, never be objective.always look for an angle to demonize israel no matter what.

i was just doing my part in the petty battle, you made the elegant point.
lol ill pretend i was being intillectual tho if you like tho