I remember one Bible-thumper asked me, "Have you found Jesus?" to which I promptly replied:

"Is He lost?"

It is a human drive. With Left-wingers, it takes its form in their Socialism. Socialism is a faith, just like religion.

My spiritual hero is Rainbow Dash

Also it will probably persist because we carry "monkey brain" as part of our makeup. Religion institutionalizes our "social animal" behavior, especially regarding power allocation and the treatment of fertile females. Thats why religion is always entwined with the state and why it always seems so concerned with whom the females have intercourse.

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Jesus was a Progressive. We don't have a historical record of him carrying around Scriptures and hitting people over the head with them. But, over centuries, his followers and his philosophy supplanted the native religions. Consequently, Christianity the philosophy became Christianity the religion, and thus functions like all the rest of them; except of course, to the True Believers, who always believe they and they alone "know the true path".

I hope you don't think I'm denigrating (sliming) you. I respect you and I'm enjoying our discussion. We both have our own opinions and beliefs. One of my beliefs is that everyone can use all the friends and allies they can get.

Religions provide a tool for the few to control the many.

But most of you believe the world is 6000 years old. And there is scientific proof that would fill a giant library that shows the belief to be false. Also Christ was the new covenent and Witnesses among some Fundamentalist cling to the Old Testament as strongly as the Jews.

Thank you for sharing. I wouldn't "slime" somebody's core belief system. I, personally, do not see the world as a tricky maze constructed by a deity that rewards lucky rats with cheese if they successfully navigate the maze.

If there were such a deity, then I truly believe in my heart, that I'm superior to that deity; because I wouldn't waste my time on pointless torture of my creations.

All societies have sexual prescriptions and sanctions.

That is Marxism altered a bit.

Mishma: "All societies have sexual prescriptions and sanctions"

True. What is your explanation for that?.

The explanation is quite involved. It deals with the preservation of society.

good to see you here, deane.

Very good gravity_man . Good to see you.

Well, your being saved means that there is room for only 143,999 more.....

Accident ? I think NOT !

WOW!

Wow, this shit makes Jeremiah Wright look like a piker. No wonder Romney wants to call a truce on religious based attacks.

If human nature were that simple and obvious.

Here, here!

Well you know, quite obviously, the Catholics are right, no wait, the Muslims, no wait, the Presbyterians...etc, etc, etc.

Really, believing in imaginary beings is the largest problem (as I know you're aware). If we dealt with our problems here, today, it's amazing what we could possibly achieve. :(

Agreed, but one thing. Mormons are Christians. Not only is their church named "The Church of Christ" but they believe Christ is their savior, and that he is divine. I really don't get how christian religion, other then maybe Catholics can make the claim that they are any more christian then Mormons. They are all derivatives. So are Catholics, but that's another story.

" I always love hearing christians bash other religions as weird cults"

So do I it just proves how unchristian they really are

How true, except that other Christians believe (correctly) that making up a story out of a hat, that Jesus was seen in America (how convenient and America centric could that be?) and other interesting inventions by someone who also conveniently thought he should be F..ing more than his boring wife...might just be not as valid as their made up stories from a more authentic time and not the 1830's.

..."Yea, Moses, we think you've been burning some bush"

Jim Gaffigan.

"If we dealt with our problems here, today, it's amazing what we could possibly achieve."

That was the shift from Christianity to Progressivism. The early Progressives were Christians, and they came to believe - with their FAITH in science and Marx's interpretations - that there could be a heaven on earth with the proper engineering of society.

What happened was the Christian religious impulse was simply transferred to the faith in the building of a utopia - a heaven - in the present. Marx encouraged this by saying that he found the causes for human suffering and that people would be "more fully human" and go to a higher level of humanity under socialism.

This is the same thing that lies behind the Left-winger impulse to socialism and "saving" everyone on the planet. SAVE the environment; SAVE the poor, SAVE us from war; SAVE the sick with free medical care; SAVE us from the evils of racism with properly engineered and carefully structured education (the "right" education, of course).

The Left-wingers have their religion and their irrational faith in it. They are no different from the people they condemn - in the name of their own FAITH.

Just as I wrote: In one form or another, Liberals actually have an instinctive drive toward utopianism. All who stand in their way are to be eliminated. For our own good, of course. Liberals know what is best for us.

Thanks for letting us in on the secrets. I have only one question: Who are "they?"

LOL

lol!

It is FACT that humans are easily brainwashed . Marketing can do it without breaking a sweat . It is a science . The younger people are when you start the more powerful it is .... Part of the hard wiring of the human brain . No more than 25% of the population can break it later in life . Some of those return to in in their old age . These magic underwear affect how they FEEL . It IS hard to feel safe in this world and human history has long recorded use of talismans . They do not make you safer , they just make it so you are NOT too terrified to function in this increasingly scary world .... ONLY DIFFERENCE ? We each choose our talismans ... theirs are chosen for them . The REAL danger , is they are taught NOT to rely on mental process often referred to as logic , or reason . The dangerous use of talismans , like this , is it divorces you from REALITY . Very bad quality in anyone with responsibility .

Hey it's the xtian religion that has the talking snake, and zombie saviour and the virgin birth and gawd going nuclear in the old testament, and people dropping stone dead from touching a magic box. That's some weird stuff.

Read "The God Virus" sometime. It clearly explains how we are infected early-on and usually don't have self confidence to question what our parents, and their parents and their parents believe(d). To do so would sever the ties that bind us with family and very few want to be that kind of outcast (like I've relished my whole life, lol).

It's similar to smoking from the early-on standpoint. I was told by my doctor that if one doesn't begin smoking by 20 they are very unlikely to ever start. Same with religion, if they don't indoctrinate children by an early age they tend to ask questions. Once questions are asked and not sufficiently answered, they start really looking at it instead of using the "you just have to have faith" answer. Then well, they are likely lost to those who use logic and wonder how anyone can actually believe in today's god but not Ra, or Zeus, or Thor, etc.

Today's god is the god of this time. No more, no less.

Correct.

Also, people like to belong. If that means not questioning silly teachings that are not possibly true then they will believe instead of using simple logic.

Churchgoer = non-questioner, or outright denier.

Thanks for the recommendation, DEM46.

As a former Catholic, I think the saddest part (as artemis referred to above) is so much of the indoctrination happens in childhood.

True. People usually like to "belong".

It's also possible that anyone who questions teachings may be on the receiving end of harsh criticism (for not having faith), rejection, or humiliation.

Fear

Indeed, bailey.

Yes, recently (I think last week) NPR profiled a Baptist Minister (female, not that it matters) who has completely lost her faith but is just as afraid to come out and quit. Very interesting dilemma and most of us can relate to at some level. Maybe not religiously but many of us have entered into relationships, made other types of commitments, etc that were a good idea or what we thought was right and best for us only to find it's not.

I felt for her during the story (and still do)>

Catholics hate if when I refer to myself as a "reformed Catholic." In fact they get quite pissed and I just laugh. :)

I think you'll enjoy the book. Most people with an open mind see the logic and even if a person doesn't agree (not that they'd read the book) they couldn't really say that the idea of indoctrination in this way would not be correct. Of course they would have to add that because it's the truth then it's not indoctrination.

It's a lifestyle and the church has a vested interest in perpetuating new life members lest they loose their lifeblood - money.

Without parishioners children paying 10,15, or 20% of their income churches will not survive.

Very true .

I have been asking the same thing about Left-wingers for years now. I have figured it out, however.

"I have been asking the same thing about Left-wingers for years now. I have figured it out, however."
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Really? What have you "figured out", Mishima?
Please share with all of us. I believe in *sharing*.

There are a number of things, but a dominant one with Left-wingers is that the "dream" is too beautiful to give up. Reality is too difficult, demanding and unpleasant compared to the "dream" of the all-powerful government providing perfect security and protection in a world of complete peace, free of any envy, strife and conflict.

The Liberals do not articulate the end result, the "paradise" that they envison, but their agenda and ideology makes them strive for this impossible Shangri-La, this heaven on earth. That is why they personalize, rage and name-call when anyone presents them with facts and concepts that refute their dream.

Spot on Mishima.

Reality is too difficult, demanding and unpleasant compared to the "dream" of the all-powerful government providing perfect security and protection in a world of complete peace, free of any envy, strife and conflict............Totally spot on.

Thank you. And like the lover who is blinded by his dream, no one can point out any reality.

Well, the *reality* is I don't believe this (or anything else you write) just because you said it.

That's a perfectly valid reason in this case.

We were trying to explain the Left-winger mind. Feel free to join in.

Yes, according to the Left-wingers, Jesus will bring in His utopia via the Federal Government.

What reason?

"Jesus did not try and change the politics of his day. In our very brief time on Earth the real Christian abstains from politics and political action."

Please keep reminding the Left-wingers about that. They like to invoke the name of Jesus. It is simply an attempt to intimidate. The Liberals hope that the person simply will not want to look like he is denying Jesus, even though he may know that it is complete and utter nonsense.

"You can easily see where that puts Mitt Romney & many other politicians. The ultimate result of being a politically-minded Christian activist is separation from Christ."

You just compared that to the extreme, and that is what Left-wingers do in order to deny any validity. The technique is that if something is not 100% perfect 100% of the time, then it is not valid and can be dismissed.

You know more about the New Testament than I, so tell me the passages where Jesus said not to judge others. The "stoning" one, was it not?

Next, outside of religion, how can one claim to know what others are thinking?

What you did was rather devious: You define what a "true" (100% pure, 100% of the time) Christian is like (invalid), and then declared that this sort of a person does not enter politics (of dubious validity). You then based your conclusions on these invalid premises.

Nice trick if you get away with it!

One comment, in the form of a question:

Let's suppose a person is a Christian. He does not meet your requirements of being absolutely perfect in every action and thought during his entire lifetime, however.

He is driven to public service for whatever reasons.

Hopefully, a politician will base his policies and recommendations on some philosophy, some basic principles.

If politician A bases his policies on the principle of some kind of "fairness," he might believe that education is the best way to get fairness for the people. So, he extends opportunities through government grants and such.

Is that a problem? Isn't he sticking to basic principles?

That said, suppose the person is a Christian and he believes in the sanctity of life. He pushes to overturn Roe v. Wade. Or at least to restrict abortions as much as possible. He is not advocating prayers, an established church, forced religious qualifications. He is simply basing his principles on his Christian beliefs, never insisting people join any church.

Tell me why this could be wrong and why LEFT-WINGERS are adamently against that politician, but they go along with one whose principles are based on another system.

I see. You are a Witness.

When I was in high school, I learned my friend's mother was a Witness. She tried to convert me, of course. I went along with it a bit because I was curious.

Well, she got "experts" to help because some of my questions were difficult. They told me a date that the world would end. I asked them if they would reconsider the validity of their assertions if the world did not end at that date.

Well, the time came and went. As you can see, the world did not end.

They forgot what they told me, but I did not. I reminded them.

They said that the "fathers," or whatever the hierarchy is, RECALCULATED everything and the date changed to, I believe, 1991, but I am not sure. They avoided me the next time.

Well, Witness - when is the world gonna end? Don't you have a specific date?

Our Founders had it figured out. They referred to factions. These were the permanent struggles and conflicts.

Left-wingers deny this. They think that they can engineer a society and create a paradise.

It has nothing to do with Satan. It is simply the way human beings are - in every society, in every era. And they will always be so.

"I'm not a political person"

Then why are you on a political forum? Will you give a straight answer?

When you respond to me, please stop with the Biblical references. I am an atheist.

Yes, 1975. I thought it was 1974. No difference. The scam was shown then for what it was. The world did not end. It was "recalculated," according to the elders or some other mystics among the Witnesses.

I remember one girl was conned by the Witnesses. A couple of years later, she got pregnant. She was ostracized, shunned.

So, the second "end of the world" was supposed to happen in the 1990s, right?

That one did not work out, either.

So, what year is it this time, Brother?

Your response to Gravity_Man: "When you respond to me, please stop with the Biblical references. I am an atheist."

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Voted up, Mishima.

I've always wondered why bloggers --- who use Biblical references -- do not take this into consideration when they post their comments.

"We were trying to explain the Left-winger mind. Feel free to join in."

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Thank you, Mishima.