Community | August 15, 2012 | 90 comments

UBS Tax Scandal: Romney’s tax dodging exposed?

source: http://teamsternation.blogspot.com/2012/08/romneys-tax-dodging-exposed.html

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kennymotown

http://teamsternation.blogspot.com/2012/08/romneys-tax-dodging-expose...

UBS had to release info on 5,000 Americans hiding money is this UBS scheme and in turn those 5,000 had to pay fines, no wonder he doesn't want the public to know!

Poor widdle Mitt Romney just can’t seem to get anything right. Even when he does release a few tax returns, they reveal damning evidence about his tax avoidance schemes.

Naked Capitalism has a piece today that breaks down a revealing analysis by tax expert Lee Sheppard. Questions about Romney’s refusal to release most of his tax returns overshadow questions about the two years of returns he has released. Do they reveal shady dealings?

One question involved his $3 million Swiss bank account. It's already outrageous that Romney moved his money offshore to avoid taxes. But it turns out he may not have even reported it properly in his 2010 returns:
A Romney grantor trust had a $3 million Swiss bank account at UBS that the trustee closed in 2010. Romney's campaign said that the account was disclosed on foreign bank account reports and that U.S. tax was paid on the interest from it. Nondisclosure was common among rich people before the 2010 enactment of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act…Very few FBARs were filed before 2010.

Like many of his peers, Romney has not been audited in the past decade, according to his campaign.
Then there’s the issue of Romney’s massive IRA. As Sheppard writes,


Romney has a gigantic IRA, which may hold as much as $100 million in assets. We do not know what it contains. We can only speculate. Given the applicable contribution limits, it is hard to see how the IRA got so big, even if Bain deals were hugely profitable. Regardless of what is in the IRA, serious valuation and self-dealing questions are raised.
Sheppard also points to Romney’s Bain Capital private equity funds stowed away in tax havens like Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. Beyond Romney’s own assets in the Cayman Islands, Bain’s use of the tax shelter means investors can also evade taxes by lying about income generated by their investments. The tax expert explains:
Mainstream newspapers howl that Romney has assets in the Caymans, but the reality is worse. Bain Capital invests in the United States and other countries, including China, but it organizes its funds in the Caymans to keep investor lists secret while availing itself of British corporate law. Every other investment fund does the same thing.

The practical effect of Cayman registration is that if investors were of a mind to lie to their home governments about the existence of or income from their Bain investments, the secrecy of investor lists makes it easier to do so.
Finally, there’s Ann Romney’s business – or her horse, Rafalca:
Before the Romneys can claim any passive loss deduction for Ann Romney’s share of Rafalca’s expenses, the LLC that owns the horse, Rob Rom Enterprises, has to be engaged in a trade or business. For that, it has to satisfy the hobby loss rule for horses, which has a rebuttable presumption of a business if there is a profit in two out of seven years (section 183(c)). Rob Rom has owned Rafalca for six years.

Moreover, the prize money in dressage competitions doesn’t come close to covering the roughly $120,000 per year for Rafalca’s upkeep and transportation from California to European competitions. So it is unlikely she would ever make a profit for her owners
None of this is terribly surprising given Romney’s oligarchic worldview. With his pick of the anti-worker and die-hard Ayn Rand cult follower premium wine enthusiast Paul Ryan as his running mate, Romney has reasserted his philosophy about how the rich ought to pay very little while workers should pay more.

But how can someone who so meticulously exploits every angle and loophole when it comes to paying taxes be trusted to lead a government that is supposed to enforce the law?
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90 comments // UBS Tax Scandal: Romney’s tax dodging exposed?

  • kennymotown
    • +1
      kennymotown  

    • Geez if you want to by a business and go to the bank for the loan, the bank wants 5 years of tax returns!

      If your an independent trucker, you know own your own equipment and you want to work for a trucking company they want 7 years of tax returns!

      And this guy wants to be Prez?

      Do what your dad said Mittens release a dozen years!

    • 9 months ago
  • FallSapphire
  • Paratus
    • -2
      Paratus  

    • This is b.s. If he had evaded tax, with the size of his income, you could bet that the IRS would have found out about it. All that is happening here is a bunch of unsubstantiated questions and allegations because Romney makes a lot of money and is running for president opposite Obama. Much noise, no fire, lots of tax ignorance, heck just a lot of ignorance and leave it at that.

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
    • +2
      kennymotown  
    • Paratus:

      No it's B.S. that he is hiding, or monkey business! At any rate 13.7% taxes is a fine example of how those that should be paying 35% pay some dip shit Tax attorney/accountant to find incredible tax dodges, like 77,000 for a dancing horse. The American people can now see up front how screwed up the Tax code is!!!!!

    • 9 months ago
  • Mark701
    • +2
      Mark701  
    • Paratus:

      Let's face it conservatives are all about proof right? They demanded to see Obama's birth certificate, right? He showed it to them, right? This because Conservatives didn't want someone who wasn't born in America running the country.

      Well, liberals don't want smug, tax dodging millionaire that specialized in outsourcing American jobs to Communist China running the country. That would be "unpatriotic". All Mitt has to do is release his tax reforms to prove he's not what liberals claim he is. It would also be great for his campaign, you know, you prove all the nasty liberals have unfairly attacked him. He's got nothing to lose if he's not hiding anything, right?

    • 9 months ago
  • Paratus
    • -1
      Paratus  
    • kennymotown:

      How do you know he is hiding anything? You don't and neither does anyone else here. He could be the biggest tax cheat in existence or the most compliant but you can bet the IRS has looked at it. That being the case, the title of this thread which identifies Romney as a tax dodger is a bold faced lie.
      If he makes all his money on capital gains than a 13.7% tax rate is pretty good considerinig what deductions he could take. Cap gains is not income tax and is subject to a 15% rate in an of itself.

      "...dip shit Tax attorney/accountant to find incredible tax dodges, like 77,000 for a dancing horse." If you don't like the tax code than change it but you are throwing rocks at some tax preparer for knowing Title 26. I think your response is a little bit twisted. Oh, his deduction is probably hobby income/loss. Hobby losses are deductible to the extent of hobby income. It is in the tax code. What is your problem with people preparing a return in compliance with the law or are we all supposed to do it like the Secretary of the Treasury, illegally. What's your rationale? I have never seen people so wacked out with hatred over someone doing what they should do and are legally required to do.
      I
      The mind of a liberal, if this is an example, is truly a twisted, desolate, hateful place.

    • 9 months ago
  • Paratus
    • -1
      Paratus  
    • Mark701:

      "Well, liberals don't want smug, tax dodging millionaire that specialized in outsourcing American jobs to Communist China running the country. That would be "unpatriotic". All Mitt has to do is release his tax reforms to prove he's not what liberals claim he is."

      You will not be able to tell from the tax return if Romney outsourced, insourced or just plain sourced jobs anywhere. This is about slinging crap against the wall, regardless fo veracity, to see what sticks. Obama gave stimulus money to companies for jobs overseas so don't even go there. You don't have a leg to stand on.

      I guess in your world it is ok to make some ridiculous charge or innuendo based on no information and then require that the chargee "prove" that it is correct. I seem to remember this being a liberal tactic used some months ago. Anyhow, the birth cert is a Constitutional requirement, the tax returns are not. Your comparison is apples and oranges.

    • 9 months ago
  • FallSapphire
  • FallSapphire
    • 0
      FallSapphire  
    • Mark701:

      The fact that he wants to play it close is reason enough to make him open up. We got the Patriots Act and every other intrusive justification for invading ordinary American privacy. Ya wanna lead me, open up, show me whatcha working' with

    • 9 months ago
  • Mark701
    • 0
      Mark701  
    • Paratus:

      And you're splitting hairs. Tax evasion is a crime. So it MATTERS what he did. Second what he paid in taxes, if he paid anything at all, is a serious issue at a time when the country needs revenue. Third if this is a "ridiculous charge based on innuendo then Mittens can prove everyone wrong and score mega points with the electorate by showing his tax returns. It's not an unusual request. His father showed 7 years of returns when he worked with NIxon. Every member of congress have opened their books when requested, but not Mittens. Even the other presidential candidates have stated he should be up front with his returns. So why all the resistance? His reticence encourages speculation, and it's in his control to put an end to it if he wishes.

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
    • +1
      kennymotown  
    • Paratus:

      I guess you just don't get it!
      Geez if you want to by a business and go to the bank for the loan, the bank wants 5 years of tax returns!

      If your an independent trucker, you know own your own equipment and you want to work for a trucking company they want 7 years of tax returns!

      And this guy wants to be Prez?

      Do what your dad said Mittens release a dozen years!

    • 9 months ago
  • Paratus
  • Paratus
    • 0
      Paratus  
    • Mark701:

      Tax evasion is a crime but we have no evidence of this. You can't tell from the return alone if he is guilty of evading tax. You need the workpapers, the 1099's or some internal company records to include the cash/stock, fixed asset etc. accounts to follow the trail.
      If Romney received more than $600 in 1099 money it would be on the return or the IRS would have found out. The only thing you will be able to tell from the 1040 is income, deductions, credits, tax paid, dependents. You are looking for the amount of tax paid and the percentage of tax paid on income in order to make some political point of it as he is not paying enough. Your statement that we need to look at his return because the country needs money is laughable in its implication. Hey taxpayers, we will check all of your returns to see if you can give the government more, after all, why should you need more than your expenses. What a crock.

    • 9 months ago
  • Paratus
  • kennymotown
  • FallSapphire
    • +2
      FallSapphire  

    • And you guys still put GWB out there? They are nearly contemporaries and the W has some baggage, but Mitt, omigod! And the baby Mitt, lil Paulie, unbelievable!
      Why is it poor Dems like BHO, WJC, LBJ, & HST may wanna join the elite but somehow don't sell out-- or have elite members with a heart like FDR/JFK or Gore, but Repubs like poor fringe of power elite cheyney, cantor, Ryan have no problem betraying their humbler beginnings. Does belonging to the country club mean that much? Do they understand that the 1% is not AMERICA?

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • FallSapphire
    • +2
      FallSapphire  

    • So, did I understand it right? Is Mitt using his charitable contributions as part of of the total tax percentage paid?
      So, if I tithe, throw $ in the Salvation Army pot and give a coupla bucks to the homeless guy outside my office, throwmin SOC SEC/UI/SDI, sales tax, tolls, REtax, I can now claim that I pay over 50% tax. I'm poor and still beating Mitt's tax rate nearly 5-fold.
      Oh yea, I haven't been able to afford a vacation for years-- two college students who actually NEED a laptop, food, room&board

    • 9 months ago
  • Paratus
  • FallSapphire
    • 0
      FallSapphire  
    • Paratus:

      Oh no, I understand that. Rumor has it that Mittens is saying that his charitable contributions is part of what he pays in taxes. A little sleight of hand.

      Listen to how he carefully parses words. Kinda like a little boy explaining his hand in the cookie jar. If you don't know the full story when you start the questioning, Lord help you getting it out of him.

      Case in point: baby Mittens (Lil Paulie Ryan) being outed by letters revealing his applying for fed funds turned down by TX Rick and LA Bob. He lied. Mittens lied and said he did t do it. But when prima facie evidence, his signed letters, showed the facts to the contrary...oh boy.
      To pull a phrase from GWB: fool me once...can't be fooled again.
      LOL

    • 9 months ago
  • Paratus
    • 0
      Paratus  
    • FallSapphire:

      "Rumor has it that Mittens is saying that his charitable contributions is part of what he pays in taxes. A little sleight of hand. "

      Listen to yourself. "Rumor has it". Rumor had it that the earth is flat, rumor had it that the earth was the center of the universe. The problem is that not many here know anything about tax law or how to prepare a 1040. Very frustrating. Rumor, that is what got this crap started in the first place. And you are the guys who po-po the idea, some say rumor, that Obama was born in Kenya. I guess it depends on what the rumor is and who it is about. So much for intellectual honesty.

    • 9 months ago
  • Knebz
    • +3
      Knebz  

    • and he has a 4.8mil capital loss carryover on his 2010 tax return meaning........he offset ALL of his capital gains PLUS 4.8 mil in 2009. What generated that capital loss? I want to know!!!

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Paratus
    • -1
      Paratus  
    • Knebz:

      " I want to know!!!"

      Well it isn't your return. Actually I would not release any more returns either. Even assuming 100 % compliance with the tax law it will make no difference. Obama supporters don't really care what is on the returns per se but are just looking for something to make political hay about.

    • 9 months ago
  • SFirman
    • +4
      SFirman  
    • Image

    • I don't understand why the IRS isn't checking his returns. I know they are hiding something or why not put an end to all the questions. Just release 5 or 6 more years. I smell a rat. A crooked one.

    • 9 months ago
  • letsliveinpeace
  • SFirman
  • Argodarian
    • +2
      Argodarian  
    • SFirman:

      If I remember correctly, W directed the IRS to fire, layoff, retire, or re-job all the CPA who might have been able to wade through and understand corporate and fat cat taxes filings. Will be a long time before that expertise is recovered.

    • 9 months ago
  • Argodarian
  • kennymotown
  • SFirman
  • SFirman
  • letsliveinpeace
  • kennymotown
  • SFirman
  • Paratus
    • +1
      Paratus  
    • SFirman:

      "I don't understand why the IRS isn't checking his returns"

      How do you know they are not. If he claims that much income and then a loss or minimal amount you can bet the IRS has checked. Any 1099 or W2 (none in Romneys case) that he would have received (either must be issued if the amount paid is > $600) has a copy going to the IRS. The Service is very good at linking 1099s and W2s to taxpayer returns. If one was issued to Romney it did find its way onto the 1040.

    • 9 months ago
  • SFirman
  • fiberbundle
    • +7
      fiberbundle  

    • Why isn't this guy the target of an audit? Oh, that's right only the middle class gets audited. The aristocracy is above the law. Eventually, chickens come home to roost---the lamentations and prayers of the oppressed usually consist of asking God when will we see His justice.

      Lord, when will we see Your justice? When?

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Argodarian
  • letsliveinpeace
  • kennymotown
  • letsliveinpeace
  • Paratus
    • -1
      Paratus  
    • kennymotown:

      The public to audit him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The things written in this thread are a prime example of why this is a stupid idea. Even the IRS is not correct even 80% of the time on tax code questions. The knowledge here on the subject is abysmal and you want the public to audit! This is, quite possibly, the dumbest thing I have ever heard. NOt because it is Romney but because of the subject.

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Gordon_Shumway
    • +4
      Gordon_Shumway  
    • Image

    • And then there's this from Reuters Kenny:

      ZURICH, Aug 15 (Reuters) - Global bank HSBC has handed over details of current and former employees to the U.S. authorities, it confirmed on Wednesday, as part of a tax probe that almost sank rival bank UBS in 2009.

      As a result the bank could now face legal action from individuals whose details have been revealed, lawyers representing them said.

      In a letter to them seen by Reuters, the bank said it had passed on documents, in which their names appear, on the request of U.S. authorities looking to hunt down U.S. citizens with untaxed money held in Swiss accounts.

      Full Story Here:
      http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/15/hsbc-swiss-tax-idINL6E8JF7G120120815

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Gordon_Shumway
  • kennymotown
  • Argodarian
  • Gordon_Shumway
  • Forgotten_Echo
    • +10
      Forgotten_Echo  

    • Ann and Mitt Romney have both admitted publicly that they will not release anything further for it would only give their "enemy" more ammunition to come at them with. That in itself is an open admission that they are hiding a great deal. Mitt Romney is by far the richest person to EVER run for the Presidency and the vast majority of his wealth has been funnelled into overseas accounts, for the most part, protected from U.S. legal jurisdiction.

      This is not a matter of whether the Romneys are hiding hady dealings and quite possible tax evasion, the true question is, to what extint?

      "But how can someone who so meticulously exploits every angle and loophole when it comes to paying taxes be trusted to lead a government that is supposed to enforce the law?"

      The answer to that question, he can't be trusted, AT ALL!

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Matlock510
  • Argodarian
  • letsliveinpeace
  • Incredulous
    • +7
      Incredulous  

    • "But how can someone who so meticulously exploits every angle and loophole when it comes to paying taxes be trusted to lead a government that is supposed to enforce the law?"

      This kenny, is the pivotal question, and the answer lies in the very reason why someone like Romney wants to lead a government. He is not focused on enforcing the law, nor are any of his billionaire supporters. Their sole purpose is, and has long been, to CHANGE the law, therefore eliminating any and all culpability for their greed.

      Paul Ryan is Romney's Salacious Crumb, his Dobby, his Gollum.

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Matlock510
  • Argodarian
  • wolfess
    • +1
      wolfess  
    • Incredulous:

      Paul Ryan is Romney's Salacious Crumb, his Dobby, his Gollum. .......... His P.r.e.c.i.o.u.s. :-)
      What you describe in your comment is what presidents have been doing since Nixon was in office, and certainly what the insane mccarthyist Reagan did, along with both shrubs. What it comes down to is that there isn't much more that needs to be done b4 it will be complete -- we peons MUST do everything in our power to ensure that the dog abuser and peewee ryan get nowhere near the WH!

      Pwr 2 the fucking righteous peons! GUILLOTINE ALL POLITICAL WHORES!

    • 9 months ago
  • Leen61
  • kennymotown
  • Matlock510
  • RevKen
    • +7
      RevKen  

    • Trying to reduce ones tax burden by taking advantage of all legal deductions is one thing. Evading taxes by hiding money in offshore accounts and lying about some business deductions is inexcusable.

    • 9 months ago
  • OlBlue
  • kennymotown
  • Argodarian
    • +1
      Argodarian  
    • OlBlue:

      I can only guess but I believe the W and the repubs did more to protect these fat cats by passing and adulterating the law and managed to keep it on the down low. I think the AG is running into this and can't do a thing about it. No independent media "deep throat" for this little scandal.

    • 9 months ago
  • cw9000
    • +8
      cw9000  

    • Good post kenny!!!! I can't understand how he took 120,000 from his IRA account and turned it into 100million dollars? I thought the IRS had limitations on IRA contributions.

    • 9 months ago
  • MSII
  • kennymotown
  • attilatheblond
    • +4
      attilatheblond  
    • cw9000:

      The IRA limits the amount or IRA contributions one can take off their income for tax computation. I gather one can make a lot of non deductible contributions. But without seeing Romney's returns, we don't know if he did it the right way or the Romney way.

    • 9 months ago
  • alexandrekBack
  • kennymotown
  • alexandrekBack
  • kennymotown
  • Argodarian
  • kennymotown
  • Vic_Romano
  • kennymotown
  • MolliBlum
  • MolliBlum
    • +5
      MolliBlum  
    • kennymotown:

      Certainly his fundraising tour to the UK and Israel raised some eyebrows. After all, foreign donations to the presidential campaign are supposedly prohibited... makes you wonder why he wanted to keep the media out in the first place

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • MolliBlum
    • +3
      MolliBlum  

    • Oh -- well done for posting this, Kenny!

      This makes complete sense. Even if he complied with the amnesty, and so avoided criminal proceedings, it would still look very, very bad....

      ADDS: instead of linking to another media report on this issue, here's an interesting little site aimed specifically at people with Swiss bank accounts explaining how your financial adviser can help you get out of this mess. I think it makes things quite clear (it's tailored to the UK, but you'll get the picture):

      http://www.lynamtax.co.uk/abouttax/Swiss_Bank_Tax_Amnesty.php/3/24/swiss-bank-ta...

      (Sorry for editing several times -- but I was writing in haste)

    • 9 months ago
  • kennymotown
  • Argodarian
  • kennymotown
  • mrpuma2u
  • kennymotown
  • kennymotown
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