no it doesnt, as the palestinians say an awefull lot of things, which doesnt change what their policies are, much the same way we can claim to be against torture and for human rights, while torturing brown people in cuba.

the plo's policy didnt change, regardless of what arafat said, and has been the policy by all palestinian governments since day one until present day, which it still is in the hamas charter, and in the fatah charter.altho fatah went through the effort of revising theirs to omitt that part, which would be great if it were a true omission, but they also included in the new charter that all old positions not mentioned in the revisions are considered self evident and still stand.which is just making it so it looks like fatah accepts a jewish state to anyone who settles for a quick google search.

meanwhile, the converse is that likud unlike hamas and fatah, actually have to change their position quite often and do, thanks to the dynamic of democracy in which they must appeal to the public for their support, which is still limited if they succeed.not autocratic despots who get to make law as they see fit, so that in the end despite likud being one shit party, the nation of israel holds no policy requiring the destruction of anyone.

the palestinians still do.

this is reality, not spin.
likud is a party, not a government, while hamas and fatah are the governments, not parties within them.

the question isnt who is more wronger for the same thing, but based on its results who bares the burden of blame for demanding the other be destroyed.

i mean you personally can demand i be destroyed, and i personally would say you have every right to demand as much.as i know you arent going to do shit about it.making such a demand what amounts to a wish.

but in looking at the results of such a policy being put into action, my question is how do the palestinians get off scott free for demanding others be destroyed when it results in a long list of tragedy's?

Well said!

um, im not suffering in the slightest, and saying it is a lonely job is simply making a joke out of what is an obvious state of affairs, that i am in a minority position.

but thanks for once again making it an entirely emotional issue void of any thought across the board.

Ah, so it's your job. Interesting. Who is paying you and how much?

freecrack claims that he doesn't get paid

does it out of glassy-eyed-fanaticism? sounds like zealotry...

i dont fellah, for if i did i would be dropping threads as often as you do, and well off for it.

the same fanatacism that janforgore has with monsanto.

only my end game is peace.

but if you want to see what racist fanatacism looks like just click on maasanovas profile, you know they guy who you are agreeing with?

nothing like scores of threads, 90% demonizng all things jewish.

as opposed to your (self)righteous 90% absolute fanatical endorsement israeli can do no wrong, holy+holy+holy+ ?

One goal of a disinformationalist is to attempt to turn forum users against others.

In other words he is trying to shame you by claiming that you are somehow alligned with me because you disagree with him.

For the record, I know that many of my views are extreme and that you and I agree on very little.

freecrack is dishonest and has made many false claims about me. He has to attack me personally because his arguments are so weak and transparent. Don't fall for his bullshit.

don't worry I'm not about to fall for it. He can sing from the right-wing-israeli-government-hymnal till blue-in-the-face isn't going to change the truth of things.

i make no bones in regards to what im about.

but everything you are happily laying on me and supposing is how i function is maasanova to a "t".

which is why i simply told you to look at his profile for yourself.

i post a thread every now and again when i find their is something worth sharing, and yes more often than not it is about israel.

thing is, i dont always come out defending israel, just highlighting the information left out by other media, and this very thread is an example in which i dont kiss israel's as and i very clearly and openly state that while i understand what they do, and why they do it, that it is wrong.

your buddy here does the opposite, and in narrative mirrors nazism verbatim.

if this is who you are comfortable with, so be it.cuz im fine with the honest man i see in my mirror.

no actually, disinformation is about having superior information as making it personal is childish.

you really think the world over has intelligence agencies they give a total of trillions of dollars to based on them calling people names?

just cuz your simple doesnt mean we all are.

i attack you cuz your a racist piece of shit, and for nothing else, as this site is literally littered from pillar to post with opposition to my feelings on this issue, and yet you i call racist.not everyone.really it is you that is the problem fellah.

oh, you know full well in accordance with the crap you guys have already stated.

i am a hasbara operative, working from beneath a secret bunker under the western wall in jerusalem, attacking any and all dissenting opinions, as i serve the grand zionist conspiracy.

and because you and maasanova are so clearly just so very important, the israeli government has dispatched me to deal with you, as how can israel fathom existing with you and maasanova out there, not to mention how current.com is also the center of all ideas, so we must have thought manipulating operatives there.

this is all your claims.

for the rest of us, who dont suppose their is a global zionist conspiracy that dictates the thoughts of others, as we get how that is batshit crazy, its my job as in moral obligation to mention the points other wise ignored, as a free human being.

but good job with the petty personal attacks.

just remember if anyone ever dares to claim you do that, to completely brend them ignorant of the facts, as if that will sweep it all under the rug.

are you not clear how this internet thingy works?and that your bullshit is out there to be viewed for what it is right next to where you claim it is something else?

The Israel War will never stop . Even if ever Palestinian was wiped off the face of the earth . Once a culture of war is started it never stops , too profitable . Look at the US .... The public wants it to end , but we have not been able to stop it , and it is only getting worse . This is what REALLY caused the end of our economic stability , and this , will end Israel too . It is a long slow suicide of a once good people .

no actually it did, in 48 when israel declared herself a state, which then ended what that civil war was over, which was preventing israel from being a state.which upon being a state was an end to that conflict.

which then palestinians (along with all the other mid eastern nations) waged a new war.one which israel was able to reach peace treaties in regards to with all parties willing to have peace.which the palestinians were not one of.

in 67 it ws the same thing again, and yet again, israel made peace with whomever was interested in it, such as jordan and egypt, and not with those who werent.once again the palestinians.

seeing a trend?
one in which only one side keeps waging war, and refuses to accept peace while the other does the literal opposite, and does accept peace?

look at the united states?
any lynchings of blacks in your neck of the woods as of late, or scalping of indians?

cultures do change, if guided or not.nothing stays the same.and that culture has changed, and can change according to what ever the will of the people are.as that is what dictates it.

but congrats for your assumptive reasoning being the basis more than actual facts, and supporting the premise of racists that all people can be judged not as individual humans but a collective.way to go.

im sorry, but the palestinians are a nation.maybe they havent created a state for that nation to reside on, but they are a nation, the same way the jews were a nation amongst the nations.

maybe if you dont live experiencing what it is like to be diaspora you cant understand this, but we do feel like a nation, and i wouldnt dare delegitimize the palestinians who experience the same.they are a nation of people.

you missed the point, in favor of talking points.
we can say who did what to whom, supposing vengence is to be expected for each, until we get all the way back to isaac and ishmael.
we can bring up attrocity after attrocity in a game of tragic one upsmanship to no conclusion, as human suffering has no objective scale on which to measure.
we can babble all day as to how ones actions effect the other, while ignoring the larger paradigm all we like in order to hold an idealogical position.

this thread is me trying to get past that, and understand objectively w/o being stuck in the cycle of talking points designed to serve a side in this.

as far as the united states and japan goes, japan had to first bomb pearl harbor which was an act of war that neednt be.to which we responded.we also had been sending troops to fight against japan in a bid to be a part of the war while not officialy being a part of the war, making it that we played our part in the collective death pile that resulted.

but it was the japanese who were the aggressors, so it is them whos hands the blood is on.
just as it is the palestinians hands whos the blood is on, as they declared war when their was absolutely no need to, and have continued it to this day.using the same standard of laying the blame for the results of wars on those who choose war.

it seems that way to me, and i know i tend to have a penchant for aspurger like reasoning.

so i know my logic isnt flawed, but im wondering if it comes at the expense of some element i am missing.which it seems isnt the case, as all the answers im getting to an objective question, are the usual leftist talking points.

VOTE UP!!!

first off, zionism has absolutely nothing in it that requires the destruction of anyone.that is you deciding the radicals represent the rest, which is the same stupid that it is when osama bin laden represents all muslims to fox viewers.

not only are you simply wrong in that their has never been any zionist movement that has sought destruction that has also enjoyed any sort of political validation.as well as the only zionist state in the world gave up gaza, created themselves as a state w/o jerusalem, and gave up sania, the birth place of judaism for nothing more than the hope of peace.

you come to this using a prejudice as a guidance.

even still, i ask you then, if you believe the zionists demand the destruction of the palestinians, and such a demand is wrong, how is it that you can support the palestinians when they demand it, and have absolutely no deviation from that policy?
are you choosing the lesser of evils?
and then why?

as far as the balfour declaration goes, it doesnt matter as the balfour declaration, the palestine mandate, or what ever other attempts by zionists to create a jewish state were never realized, only proposed.

just like papa johns being "forced" to lay off employees based on what policies are proposed but havent actually happened yet.it is an invalid claim.

and as far as the uk not having the right to whatever, what right then does an empire have over its colony then?
we all agree that colonialism is bad, based on what colonial powers do.
but now we are supposing that they dont have the right to do what they do, which then would make colonialism just fine then?cuz they cant do shit with their colony?

they can, which is why it is problematic.
it is why the zionists appealed to the brits, as opposed to the austrlians or canadians.cuz that is who was in charge at the time.thus who was empowered with the right to make policy.

as far as your history goes, israel was created the exact same way any nation was, in particular us.

religious persecution of europe to avoid?
check.
bought land and built it up?
check.
fought off colonial rulers for independant rule?
check.

israel declared herself a state with 9 miles of land, they had purchased and developed into a state.the west bank, or judea if you will, and gaza had nothing to do with it, as those were territories aquired 20 yrs later in the 6 days war.so it has nothing to do with how israel was created unless you suppose time travel is a factor.

furthermore, by the standards held across the entire world for all of humanity, those who win get the land fought over.only the jews are held to a different standard, even tho the specific war in which they aquired the west bank and gaza was declared on them, and they won defending themselves.it wasnt even like israel were being assholes who started a war to take more land.they had that war brought to them.

which is why i ask, how they are the problem then?

ok, so we both agree the killing done on both sides is worthy of condemnation, thus clearly a negative.

so logically i take it to the next step of who demands this state of affairs be as it is, to see what has to be rectified in order to stop it, already knowing that both sides are wrong, as war is wrong.

the same as anything else.
that is how we know the problem wasnt boot leggers, despite them breaking the law, but prohibition.
the way we realized it wasnt the problem that blacks were inferior, but that our policies kept them down.

so i ask it objectively, how can their be a people, who demand the destruction of others , and for the sake of clarity, demand it in terms of national policy that are active, and have them not be the source of the problem?

what is it that any nation is supposed to do in regards to that policy in order to avoid the war,which that policy demands?

how can their be anything but exactly what we see as a result of this policy?

fyi, prior to zionism, the cultural standard was dhimi law, which if you look it up and learn it makes the kkk run south look preferable.

and even with zionism, it extended only to israel, which once again was all of nine miles until war was waged on them.it could have been 9 miles of zionism and the other 100's of square miles as what ever else was desired if not for the wars that were waged changing borders as they always do.

"first off, zionism has absolutely nothing in it that requires the destruction of anyone.that is you deciding the radicals represent the rest, which is the same stupid that it is when osama bin laden represents all muslims to fox viewers"

You mean like Hamas representing the entirety of Palistinians?

"as far as your history goes, israel was created the exact same way any nation was, in particular us.

religious persecution of europe to avoid?
check.
bought land and built it up?
check.
fought off colonial rulers for independant rule?
check."

You conveiniantly left out the force removal and institutionalized genocied and apartide when said genocide was abandoned of the people who inhabited this land that the Europeans were escaping to. So YA, Israel is a lot like the early US. I wonder when they will join the rest of the civilizations in the post colonial present?

hamas represents the palestinians cuz that is their government, and i hold no different standard for anyone else.

are you not clear on that hamas is their government?
thus their representatives, and in their system, the policy makers and enforcers?

i didnt leave it out, as we are all grown ups here (some more so than others) and we all know the native americans suffered an actual genocide as opposed to the bullshit bleeding heart one the palestinians tried to claim before the put "aparthied" up the flag pole to see if that would work.

we all know the purchasing of land we did was not a legit and fair purchasing of land, which in the case of israel i believe it was, but am more than willing to accept that in others views it is the same as what we did to our natives, so i left that open too.

i left out what we all know, and your desperately digging for some way to make me wrong, cuz you dont want to face the fact, that im not, which means you are.

so i toss the ad hominem back to you, and ask, when are you going to join us at the grown ups table, as opposed to adopting the palestinians method of being wrong as long as it takes, no matter what the result, cuz how you feel is more important than what makes sense?

so the problem isnt choosing war, but the side who invested more in not being conquered than the other for doing so?

some one wants to stab you, so you get a gun and you are wrong?really?

Israelis and Arabs are of the same race - Semitic.

They are not the same religion. And not all jews are semitic. There are jews from other tribes.

Not necessarily. Not all jews are Semites.

http://current.com/community/93907305_johns-hopkins-study-confirms-european-jews...

Like the Falasha Jews from Ethiopia who go back to the time of Moses.
Yet the one thing Hebrews and Arabs have in common is their lineage to Abraham and subsequent monotheism.

Good point CoolP. I've probably forgotten more of history than I care to admit. One of my favorite actors was a big burly black guy named Yaphet Kotto. I think he was the detective in the movie The Star Chamber where all the judges would have a meeting about who was going to walk on a technicality or whatever and needed to be eliminated for the sake of the people. He was from Ethiopia. In an interview in People Mag. he said something to the effect that if you really want to see prejudice, try being a black jew walking to school with a hebrew prayer book.

That's the irony of the situation

Most of the brown Arab-Palestinians the Israelis routinely kick the shit out of are Semites. Semites or Shemites or those that descend from Shem.

The white "ashkenazi Jews" that beat the shit out of them are Khazars that are descended from the Caucasus.

Thanks for the info dagum. Strange that there's a whole other blog on almost the same discussion.

A lot of new information has been revealed from genetics and the Human Genome project.(shown in the link I posted above) It's pretty amazing stuff.

I saw that. It is really amazing. I bet they can trace them back to the Neandrathals.

Actually the oldest Cro Magnon remains have been found in Israel dating back some 40,000 years. It's the site of the first fully modern humans.

ROTF.

I think he is pointing at the insanity of murder within the family. Not the wacked out demarcations of "religions".

Very good point.

True, anyone could convert.

Paleoanthropology is my favorite subject.
My special interest is Cro-Magnon - our species who emerged out of Africa? some 40,000 years ago inhabiting caves in Israel, France and Spain.
We modern humans could really learn a lesson or two from our Ice Age brothers and sisters. I think they would be amused at how spoiled and petty we have become over the past 5,000 years.

There are Palestinian Jews as well as Palestinian Christians. There are Muslims in Israel, Palestinians, treated as second and even third class citizens.

No, they can't and don't trace them back to Neanderthal, no more than Semites.

Here is some more irony.

The Ashkenazis look down on the Semitic Jews, like they are inferior and they usually do not marry.

FACT

i know full well genocide is what is at hand.

i know full well every instance in which the palestinians have gotten their hands on jews from across the world they make no differenciation between jews,israelis,or zionists.a they kill them just the same.

i know full well the desire to drive them to the sea was not a forced vacation to the beach the palestians wished to impose on the over worked israelis.

i know that demanding the destruction of israel is a new revision on what was previously demanding the destruction of the jews, and that the intent is the same as the results havent changed with it.

i also know that genocide is a term used all to commonly amongst too many for it to even be taken seriously anymore, as it is used in this very conflict when the victims of it have only had a population increase.

i also know that a common under the rug racist method of delegitimizing points that defend israel, is to claim some sympathy card is being played about the holocaust.which is a valid card to play when the nazi goals and palestinian goals are identical.but i refuse to provide the ammo for it.

but more than anything else, i want people to offer me a non ethnic, non religious,objective answer as to how one can be against war, whilst defending those who demand it.

how can one both demand human rights, while defending those who demand to remove some from humanity.

i take racism very seriously, and dont toss it out unless truly deserved.and when it is it deserves to be highlighted for what it is, so that we are not held back by it as a species as we had been for so long previously.so im asking people to explain to me what i very well may not see on my own due to ethnocentric pride, or general cognative disfunction.which sadly has been met with only the standard talking points.

and a fag is a twig bundler.

but in contemperary terms, calling some one a fag means something else, and despite how semanticly absurd it may be, like how flamable and inflamable mean the same thing, antisemitism is a term which speaks to a specific paradigm in which hatred is lavished on jews.not all semites.

i know it and you know it.

you prefer judeopathy?

which would only matter if one is racist, so it is not a thing worth even messing with.

wether or not a black guy is from niger or zimbabwe doesnt change what is meant when a klansman calls him a nigger.

being a black jew in a christian world is like being an oddity.

being a black jew in a world in which a portion of ethnocentric blacks derive validation through islam is a very unpleasant thing.

this has nothing to do with anything, as this is a racial argument, which isnt even worth having as race matters not unless your racist, then nothing you have to offer matters anyway.

but seriously believing the jews are khazars makes sense to you?

that their was a kingdom no less of people, who decided to convert to a religion that would have them homeless and persecuted?really?

to a religion that is inclusive and doesnt seek converts, while christianity was trying to take over the known world?really?

that those who hate jews famously go to great lengths to delegitimize them, and you think this isnt part of that?

you dont think it is a tad odd that all the nonjewish elements look exactly like the jewish elements of europe, making any kazinski or petrovich looking just like any smith or jones?

really ya think james mcavoy is khazarian and all the other mcavoys who look just like him are irish?really?

it actually isnt.

in the 90's antisemites, or for the sake of this semantic argument, judeopaths, began to realize the racism they relied upon had failed, relegated to the lowest levels of the political right.

they found a home in the left, by spinning all their bigotry into talking points the left was already into.

for example, knowin how the liberal humanatarians were all over rwanda in the 90's making it a thing, they played the palesitnians as another genocide being ignored.which has become aparthied now, as genocide has run its course and didnt stick as the palestinian population has only grown since israel has been around.not to mention aparthied after a genocide is impossible as segregation of the dead isnt an issue now is it.

cuz it isnt about actual knowledge but the talking points, and getting them out there until it becomes percievable truth.

the reason this racial issue has endless blogs and youtube videos about it, is that racists are still racists, but are soft selling it as something else.in the end it doesnt matter whos grandparents mixed with whos grandparents, and what faith the held as they did it, as none of that matters in actuallity.

but it is the racists elbowing their way back into the position they had been losing since the 60's and using the jews as the foundation as always.

i would bet my house,child,life,or what ever that we will soon see the same tactic being used with other races when this meme makes its full circle.

hey it already has started with obama being kenyan.

it will be the mexicans are ok cuz they want work, but it is the rest who arent, with then a following explanation how they are all not mexican.

the blacks are ok, cuz they didnt come here on their own but were forced via slavery.except for all the others, they are the problem, with then a following explanation as to how all the blacks here arent actually the ok blacks.

when you think im a crazy paranoid conspiracy theorist, just visit all the "obama is a kenyan" spots, or just watch fox.

so what rights are the 1.5 million palestinians who are israeli citizens denied?

it is a fact if you suppose to be able to read minds, other wise it is not a fact any more than any other prejudice.

your fact makes these people not exist:
pink,amanda bynes,scarlett johansen,mya rudolph,lenny kravitz,rashida jones,bobby deniro,jon favrue,paul newman,as well as many others in adam sandlers hanuka song which im sure we are doomed to hear more than we would care to soon.

While formally equal according to Israeli law, a number of official sources acknowledge that Arab citizens of Israel experience discrimination in many aspects of life. Israeli High Court Justice (Ret.) Theodor Or wrote in The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Or_Commission ) into the Events of October 2000:

"The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation."

The Or Commission report also states that activities by Islamic organizations may be using religious pretenses to further political aims. The commission describes such actions as a factor in 'inflaming' the Muslim population in Israel against the authorities, and cites the al-Sarafand mosque episode, with Muslims' attempts to restore the mosque and Jewish attempts to stop them, as an example of the 'shifting of dynamics' of the relationship between Muslims and the Israeli authorities.

According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government had done "little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens."[173]

The 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices[173] notes that:

"Israeli-Arab advocacy organizations have challenged the Government's policy of demolishing illegal buildings in the Arab sector, and claimed that the Government was more restrictive in issuing building permits in Arab communities than in Jewish communities, thereby not accommodating natural growth."
"In June, the Supreme Court ruled that omitting Arab towns from specific government social and economic plans is discriminatory. This judgment builds on previous assessments of disadvantages suffered by Arab Israelis."
"Israeli-Arab organizations have challenged as discriminatory the 1996 "Master Plan for the Northern Areas of Israel," which listed as priority goals increasing the Galilee's Jewish population and blocking the territorial contiguity of Arab towns."
"Israeli Arabs were not required to perform mandatory military service and, in practice, only a small percentage of Israeli Arabs served in the military. Those who did not serve in the army had less access than other citizens to social and economic benefits for which military service was a prerequisite or an advantage, such as housing, new-household subsidies, and employment, especially government or security-related industrial employment. The Ivri Committee on National Service has issued official recommendations to the Government that Israel Arabs not be compelled to perform national or "civic" service, but be afforded an opportunity to perform such service".
"According to a 2003 University of Haifa study, a tendency existed to impose heavier prison terms to Arab citizens than to Jewish citizens. Human rights advocates claimed that Arab citizens were more likely to be convicted of murder and to have been denied bail."
"The Orr Commission of Inquiry's report [...] stated that the 'Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory,' that the Government 'did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner.' As a result, 'serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"

The 2007 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices notes that:

"According to a 2005 study at Hebrew University, three times more money was invested in education of Jewish children as in Arab children."

Human Rights Watch has charged that cuts in veteran benefits and child allowances based on parents' military service discriminate against Arab children: "The cuts will also affect the children of Jewish ultra-orthodox parents who do not serve in the military, but they are eligible for extra subsidies, including educational supplements, not available to Palestinian Arab children."

According to The Guardian, in 2006 just 5% of civil servants were Arabs, many of them hired to deal with other Arabs, despite the fact that Arab citizens of Israel comprise 20% of the population.

Although the Bedouin infant mortality rate is still the highest in Israel, and one of the highest in the developed world, The Guardian reports that in the 2002 budget, Israel's health ministry allocated Arab communities less than 0.6% of its budget for healthcare facility development.

In March 2010, a report released by several Israeli civil rights groups stated that the current Knesset was "the most racist in Israeli history" with 21 bills proposed in 2008 and 2009 that would discriminate against the country's Arab minority.

A preliminary report commissioned by Israel’s Courts Administration and the Israel Bar Association found in 2011 that Israeli Arabs are more likely than Israeli Jews to be convicted of crimes after being charged, more likely to be given custodial sentences, and were given longer sentences. It did not account for "mitigating or aggravating circumstances, prior criminal record and the convict’s gender."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Civil_rights

More at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Directed_at_Arabs

I can't find the documentary in which the journalist followed all the clues to the Ark, it is kept in a chapel that is guarded by one monk who never leaves it, the chapel is surrounded by railings, and his food is deposited there for him every day. Nobody can enter that chapel except for the highest prelate. That chapel is surrounded by several churches, I seem to remember that the place is a monastery that is of difficult access.

"this has nothing to do with anything, as this is a racial argument, which isnt even worth having as race matters not unless your racist, then nothing you have to offer matters anyway.
but seriously believing the jews are khazars makes sense to you?"

We talking ethnicity here. If you read my post, yes the White-skinned ethnically "ashkenazi Jews" are descended from Khazars in the Caucasus. They are not Semites. As per Johns Hopkins University: http://current.com/community/93907305_johns-hopkins-study-confirms-european-jews...

I have no reason to believe Johns Hopkins University is engaged in some sort conspiracy and don't think you should either.

"you dont think it is a tad odd that all the nonjewish elements look exactly like the jewish elements of Europe,"

lol. No kidding. That's kind of the broader point, the European and American "Ashkenazi Jews"
DO resemble the non-Jewish elements because they both aren't Semitic. White skinned people trace their origins to the , hence the politically correct term "Caucasian" when referring to white skinned people. Historically, the Khazars were the only white skinned people to mass convert to Judaism on a group level.

The genetic testings conducted by Johns Hopkins University confirms the Historical account, that "Ashkenazi Jews" are descended from Khazars from the Caucasus.

ignoring the usual bullshit stats from the standard propaganda sources of the guardian who claims organ harvesting was a thing when the palestinian families they cited stated the exact opposite, and your ignoring of basic facts that bedouins for instance will have a higher rate of all human ills as they live a life style that the rest of us progressed beyond.

what it comes down to is the standard racism that exist in all societies, based on that societies population of idiots, which no society is w/o as the issue is between arab and nonarab citizens, of which many are jews.

making it not a jewish/palestinian issue or second class citizenry, as none of israel's laws create a legal distinction at all.

i mean i dont know what is more fucked up, that you tried to sell this weak propaganda spin, or that it seems you failed to even notice you were doing it.i mean i get how the guys on fox get a paycheck so they say the crazy nonsensical shit they do.but to actuallybelieve it is something else entirely.

and according to your absurd standards, how is that equality or second class citizen issue working amongst palestinians, if this is the basis for condeming one side?
oh yeah, like iran not having that problem with their gays, cuz they kill them, the palestinians dont have any second class jews.

did you know you were pro-ethnic cleansing?

My post to which you are responding has absolutely nothing to do with the Guardian, and if anyone here is pro-ethnic-cleaning, it obviously is you.

im not the one supporting the guys who arent a polyglot, and demand the destruction of others to such a degree they waged war on them.that would be you.

"According to The Guardian, in 2006 just 5% of civil servants were Arabs"

have you gotten so comfortable with your spamming bullshit you have gone on autopilot and forgoten your "sources"

Who don't marry? My heritage is Ashkenazis. Guess my grandparents didn't know that Fact!

My source was WikiPedia, as you would know had you been paying attention.

i thought the oldest cromag was bill orielly

lol, i dont think johns hopkins university is involved in an conspiracy in particular, just as i dont think the majority of detractors here are racist.but it doesnt change the nature of the effort.

put it this way.
i dont know if it is true now, but it was at one point, that their are more black men in prison than in college.as their would be of any group of people who experience the social economic imbalances, and laws geared towards them more than others, along with college tuition going up up and up, with help getting the required financing vanishing.

it doesnt mean when johns hopkins,harvard law review, or dipshit david duke are racist for stating the fact that their are more young black men in jail than in college.but that narrative is still racist, by the mission, which the left doesnt care for.

like how many other eastern europeans share that same kazhak bloodline who arent jewish?
how many of the ashkenazis dont share that gene pool, and what percentage of jews share the gene pools of the people they live amongst, as that is what is most common.

which is why katie segal, and steven segal share a name, and not a religion.
which is why will sasso's nonjewish ass can play curly in the three stooges who was jewish.
which is why paul newmans half jewish ass looks like young brando.
the same reason james caan has been nominated for italian of the year by some italian group, twice, and keeps having to decline the honor.

but none of what you said adressed the points which are common sense points that i raised.

what people, ever in history, took a position of status and literally chose to abandon it in favor of a status that would leave them persecuted more than any others?how is it even fathomable that it could be plausable?

i mean if you shot that premise to a hollywood filmaker, even on the lowest ends of porn, who have midgets painted green to pretend aliens are fucking our hotties, they would reject the premise as it is just too absurd.

jews have that famous redheaded thing going on, and the jewfro, which are more examples not of caucus heritage, but obviously a reminant of kinky hair that is common amongst africans, as well as the red hair of the irish.

like laura prepon is from the caucus, or allison hanigan?with the clearly not western european names of anything?

the fact is their is a propaganda battle that exist which should be surrounding the israeli palestinian conflict, but is instead in the center of it.on the zionist side they like to claim how the palestinians are a made up people who are actually egyptian,syrian,and labanese.not a palestinian people, and this khazar thing is the same bullshit on the other side.

cuz in the end, unless your racist, it doesnt matter.
it spins facts to sell its bullshit as valid, the same way the zionist side spins the arab heritage that all arabs have can link the palestinians to syrians and egyptians on some level.

it is all absurd

i paid attention, and literally cut and pasted you citing the guardian.

you see that part in my previous comment that has quotation marks on either side?
that would be me quoting from your own comment.

what is sad, is you not being able to join us in the very reality you seek to manipulate.

Freecrack: You have become as radical in your position as Maasanova is in his opposing position. You both need to get some serious help to identify why each of you has such a total inability to seek common ground somewhere. Stop living in the past and try to move forward. Your hate is just as ugly to me as Maasanova's is to me. If I thought one of you could get to a place where you each STOP trying to find literature or opinions that support your respective side and deal with the here and now of what we see with our own eyes, we may find a good starting point for hearing each others views and be able to respond without insults. Right now, there's no hope for either one of you to proffer an idea that might be good for the world at large or any individual countries right or lack thereof to exist.

All good questions. I think we start with understanding:

One is Jewish by religion.

One is Semitic by ethnicity.

There are Semites who aren't Jewish, and there are Jews who aren't Semitic.

What puzzles me is how someone like George Soros, who publicly proclaims he is an atheist, and who isn't descended from Semites, can somehow claim he is Jewish?

lol im not even really messing with the religious aspect as that is even more ridiculous a thing to figure out after the fact than race is.

being as faith is entirely subjective and as varied as people themselves are.

to answer your soros question, as i too am a godless man, who is jewish, ill have you walk a mile in my shoes if you will.

imagine if you would some other nation and their order overcame the united stated of america?
imagine if as a result of this success, we are the only people on the planet left who value the liberty and freedom as defined in the constitution, as this new power has taken over the rest of the world, who validate it by aquiescing to it.
that americans are the only hold outs, who hold freedom of speech, and democracy as sacred in their hearts, as their own personal value systems.

then imagine while refusing to let go of the value they have for liberty, they are scattered through out the world for generations to come, with each passing down their love for liberty to the next generation no matter where in the universe they find themselves.

of course the majority of americans who end up in china, will look chinese, and of course the majority of americans who end up scattered in africa would have the most awesome afros ever than any american has ever had, over time.

then at that point, are they no longer able to call themselves americans anymore even tho their is no america?
no that is their identity and their heritage, just the same as french canadians are french despite where they are.

so in this scenario, your great great great grandkids could decide for them in their personal value system that fascism is preferable to liberty.but they wouldnt be any less american for it, as their is a heritage based element that makes them inexcapably american.

for me personally i didnt identify as jewish for most of my life.
but i cannot deny their is a heritage given to me that makes me who i am for better or worse.one that i even if i found no value in, is still who i am.

did that clarify that point for you?or just tell you an insane story for naught?

because racism and bigotry are my things, when i see any claims that make conclusions about any race of people i find it suspect, in particular when it matches with a strain of already existing bigotry.

it is how we know full well what some one is up to when they claim that the prison statistics prove that blacks are criminals by nature.

that it is not a comprehensive truth, but an example of ignorance on the part of the person making the claim.
ignoring that social economic factors supercede any racial ones.
that laws are subjective and anyone ia criminal if the laws are made to target them as laws vary from place to place, making one mans criminal anothers regular citizen.
that their is no society free of crime regardless of racial composition.

and this khazarian bit is the same ol bullshit.

im sure their is a way to make all of eastern europeans khazarian to some level, the same way one could prove that peruvians are from columbians.i dont suppose for a moment that the science is wrong at all.we all mix and always have, which is why the jews of europe are white, and the jews of the mid east arent.when chances are they were probably black to begin with way back when.

i dont suppose that eastern european jews dont have a lineage that goes back to the khazarians, just the same as the romaians,poles,hungarians,cheks,russians all also do.i just recognize how this fact, like the fact that their are more black men in jail than in college, is used to sell a particular narrative that is not accurate.

no people, ever in the entire history of humanity, when given the choice, opted to down grade their own social status.those who have a kingdom dont give it up.they adopt other idealogies like the romans adoped christianity, not give up what they have and scatter for the idealogy as is claimed with the khazars.

nor does an entire kingdom convert to a religion that doesnt seek converts or have a base from which to do it, which the jews do not seek converts, and had no place from which to do it.

but most of all, it is racists simply trying to get their own race based value system accredited, when in the end, like all racist suppositiong, it just doesnt matter.it doesnt matter if your grandparents, or my grandparents were from anyplace in particular, as that doesnt dictate if we have or dont have the rights we demand for ourselves, and have earned either way.

this khazar bit, like all racism, is a bid to get people to ignore everything a person has done, which validates who they are and what they are entitled to, in favor of viewing them only as part of a racial collective, to be judged in that way.as all racism does.

I see your comparison. A belief in liberty to a belief in the Jewish faith. But this comparison supports the opposite of what you conclude.

One is not a believer in liberty, solely because their ancestors believed in liberty. You can't currently believe in fascism and currently not believe in liberty, and yet still somehow believe in liberty.

Likewise, you can't be an atheist not believing in the Jewish faith, and yet still somehow believe in the Jewish faith because your ancestors did.

Do you know the difference between "race" and "ethnicity" ?

I ask this because your comments don't seem to indicate you do.

"Race"- is a social construct without biological or genetic basis. In the Anglo-American empire, the social construct of race is based solely on skin color. Traditionally, the Anglo- American empire has socially constructed two classifications, "black" and "white",(since the constructs are entirely made up by society, things fluctuate and additional ones such as "brown" might have been added.)

"Ethnicity"- is a group of people whose members identify with common traits such as culture language, dialect. Since the members of an ethnicity themselves, view themselves as different from other peoples and divide themselves from others based on selected common traits, oftentimes they only breed within their own ethnic group. This has led to only the genes being swapped that are within the ethnic pool, creating genetic commonality among those within an ethnic group. The ethnic groups by their choice of inclusion and exclusion have created a genetic basis for their self-created ethnic classifications.

The John's Hopkins study has shown through genetic sequencing that those classified under the social construct of race as "white" in the ethnic group "Ashkenazi" descend from the Khazars, a people and kingdom based in the caucuses during the middle ages. The John's Hopkins study is in accordance with the traditional and historical account of the Ashkenazis origin.

If you're curious as to why I brought this up? You posted a thread with open questions, which I took as an open thread and an invitation to post tangentially related tidbits that highlight the complexity of the situation.

your missing the point, which is ones value system and heritage, regardless of beliefs.

truth is i can live by the 613 laws of jewish daily life, while not believing in god.it helps to believe in god, other wise it makes the question of why cant i eat a blt sandwich a problem.but a belief in god allows you to know you cant have bacon cuz god says so.

i dont need to believe in any deity in order to value the torah, and the fables it tells for the morality one can gain from it.i neednt believe in the angry man in the sky to get how a city of sin could destroy itself like sodom and gemorah, despite it being attributed to him, the same way i can derive who is the good guy or bad guy in star wars w/o thinking the force is real.

for me personally, it is the fact that it was beloved by so many for so long that i have a responsibility even if i dont personally believe in it to respect, that which people clung to, sacrified their lives in order to protect, and personally had my family traveling across the ocean to the new world in order to live by it.

like jason alexanders mother told him when he complained about having a bar mitzvah, that "their are people who would kill you just for being jewish, so you should know what you are being killed for."

and even if i didnt have the respect of heritage that i honor, tradition sticks whether you like it or not, which makes a bagel and lox feel like home.it makes answering questions with other questions inherent for me.it makes watching mothers trying to control the world via their sons using guilt a thing i can relate to the way greek children know they have parents who think the greeks invented everything, or italians know what it is like to have parents and grandparents who believe in what is essentialy voodoo.

their is a sense of humor that is unique that speaks to me and my fellow heebs that doesnt cross over generally to others, and a whole myriad of other elements that seem like the most obvious stuff that is entirely foriegn to people who have lived in the same place i have lived at the same time as me as their existance was through another prism than mine.

i dont know how the manifestation of the heritage of being an american would be from the scenerio i posed.maybe it would be on the 4th of july those who are the decendants of americans eat hot dogs bbq'ed, while no one else does, like we have matzoh on passover.maybe apple pie is analogous to challah bread.maybe the valuing of free speech by them and not by the rest results in them coming up with an entirely different way of communicating and humor that is unique to them.maybe the differences between them and the rest are so that they write a book on how to better be an american as to not confuse it with the other world orders, the way the talmud does this for judaism.

for me it is about respect, as well as my heritage.while i can choose god or not, i cant choose my heritage.it is me no matter how much i argue their is no god, or how many tattoos i get or how many items of food i can put bacon on.

i think in general, which isnt part of this discussion but worthy of mention, that jews have an entirely alternate existance from the rest despite experiencing the same things, which is failed to be recognized by jews and nonjews alike.nonjews think the jews know where they are coming from, and jews think nonjews know where they are coming from, and in many matters that arent as simple as shared humanity, we actually dont get where the other guys are coming from with it.

i wouldnt have even the slightest clue to this if i hadnt married a catholic.and even then im learning new differences the more time goes on that i otherwise wouldnt have ever thought of on my own.

i dont believe race is used that way even tho it may be incorrect to do so, and it is to that i am speaking.

but the open questions i aksed, while being based in the israeli palestinian conflict, have nothing to do with race or ethnicity, as i marked peoples as different from one another already covering that they are, so it neednt be evaluated.

the johns hopkins study you cite doesnt cover what percentage of eastern europeans are khazars to see if the jews match along with the rest or have a differenciation, or the rest of european ashkenazis who are clearly not from the caucuses.these are variable for a comprehensive understanding, while the bit you are sharing feeds a particular strain of racist talking point.

not that you are racist, or that johns hopkins is, only that the way it is sold is.

again, it is a fact that their are more black males in prison than in college, which in and of itself is to sell the notion that they are criminals more than others.but only if you racistly ignore the fact that social economic factors dictate who is in jail more often than other criteria, such as being black.

"truth is i can live by the 613 laws of jewish daily life, while not believing in god."

This is emphatically NOT the truth. Of the 613 Mitzvot of Mosaic Law found in the Mishneh Torah.

"To know that G-d exists" (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6).

(there are 9 other mitzvah that directly relate to God)

You cannot live by the Jewish/Mosaic law while not believing in God because the mitzvot expressly calls for a belief in God.

and if you take one approach to knowing god, it is to know that god resides within all of us as he represents that which is more than ourselves.you have other ways of knowing god exists, as the biblical know is to experience, not a matter of faith, like how sex is knowing.so one can know that their is a level above and beyong humanity, while at the same time not not knowing god specifically.

which none of it is the point, as the 613 mitzvot was more of a metaphor being that one can be as jewish as one possibly can whilst still not believng in the reason for it the way you would suppose.the same way a man can dress as stylishly and perfectly while not being gay, despite us commonly assuming so.

it is simply easier to believe in a deity who commands you to do shit to explain that which makes no sense otherwise.why cant i eat bacon, cuz god says so.one can also choose to live this life with out making it about god.

as i do not worship any other gods before the lord, i also dont worship the lord.meeting my obligation according to moses, but not worshiping any diety in particular, as it isnt that i must worship god, just not another.

dont get me wrong their are haredi sects and plenty of others who will say we are not jews, as each sect looks down on the next and has been dismissing them for as long as their has been judiasm.it is as much a jewish tradition as any other.

but the point is, that is jewish tradition, thus jewish.

"meeting my obligation according to moses, but not worshiping any diety in particular....but not worshiping any diety in particular, as it isn't that i must worship god,"

Mitzvot:

To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6)
To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32)

Meeting your obligations requires that you must worship God.

"you have other ways of knowing god exists, as the biblical know is to experience, not a matter of faith, like how sex is knowing.so one can know that their is a level above and beyong humanity, while at the same time not not knowing god specifically"

Mitzvot:

Not to profane G-d's name (Lev . 22:32)
To learn Torah and to teach it (Deut. 6:7).

The Haredi are right. You are not Jews if you don't believe in or follow the Jewish faith. You do not obtain knowledge of God or a relationship with God by sexual experiences but by studying the torah.

sure then, despite all the literally trillions of people through out all of humanity who have read the same material and all come away with their own views that differenciate from yours, you are special and finally cracked the code so many others failed to do.

all the nonchasidem jews of the world, amounting to about 20 million are self chosen fake jews, while the 2 million chasidim are the only actual jews.because your interpretation is the only one that matters.

glad we could clear that up.

now all ya gotta do is use the same level of absurdity to create a time machine, go back and tell all the europeans, and arabs that the jews arent actually jews, based on your view of the religious texts superceding all others, as to prevent the clusterfuck that has resulted since.

Religions aren't based on equivocations but uncompromising tenets. They are based on faith. Those who believe the tenets of the faith are a part of faith, those they don't aren't part of it.
Like it or not, that's the nature of religions

But it shouldn't even be an issue. Because those that want to be part of a faith believe it, and those that don't, don't believe it. It's odd and illogical to call yourself by the name of a faith you don't believe in. If you don't believe in the tenants of a faith, you aren't part of it and there is no reason why you should want to call yourself by something you have rejected and don't believe in.

The Tenants of Judaism include the Aseret ha-D'varim and the 613 correlating Mitzvot.

If you don't want to follow the tenants of Judaism but instead want to practice something like sex magik, okay but you are not a member of the Jewish faith practicing Judaism but are instead practicing something else...

ok, so their are but one set of rules to a religios identity, and you now those rules, and everyone else whos view is different is simply wrong or invalid.

even tho i literally gave you a scenerio in which values you do not hold can be your heritage, to explain how judaism is my heritage making me who i am just as much as any other element while i am able to also recognize fables for what they are.

we are all wrong, and you are right.

at this moment i cease being a jew as i have no faith in god, and retroactively wasnt bar mitzvahed, never was forced to fast on yom kippur, i didnt name my kids after the dead, nor do i light candles in remeberance of the dead.
i also now dont care for bagels in lox, answering questions with other questions, challah bread, or a good egg matzoh with butter and salt.

my entire life is now not what it was previously, defined by be as the primary one to state who i am, but now defined by you who knows better.

Persecution of Jews dates back prior to the birth of Christ by other religions of the time.

Agreed.

Not exactly. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

i can tell you that the jews are the worlds first niggers.pardon the crass verbage but if the show fits.

unlike all other peoples before them it was standard that when you are conquered or exiled, your religion changed in accordance with the region.think of it as laws for us, how utah can be a dry state, and nevada not.whenyou leave utah you can drink a beer walking down the street in vegas, but when out of vegas, you cant drink a beer anywhere in utah.

the jews in believing in one god over all others, who happened to make it a big rule to not worship other gods, found themselves carrying the laws of one place with them, to places with other laws, and they refused to abide by the local laws.

which when coming with divine authority created huge problems.

so when pagans would worship steve the god of the soil, and bob the god of the sky to make it rain so the soil would bring forth food, if it didnt, they blamed the jews for offending bob and steve.something latter adopted in christianity using sodom and gomorrah as the example of how god punished all for the sins of the few.

the jews were the first people to be the inherent enemy of the people who lived amongst the people themselves.this is why they were persecuted to begin with.

add onto that christianity being a rival sect seeking power which played the jews to that end, and you get the last 2k yrs of persecution of jews.

as far as what nation has to live under constant threat, many do.

imagine being a shia muslim in iraq, or basically any african.

but it doesnt change the point that we do not know this experience first hand in order to fully understand it as israel does.we do have the luxury of judging from a comfortable distance, and also a penchant for ignorance, which allows us to pick and choose what we know about it when making our judgements.

and you are right.

success or failing of attacks doesnt dictate if they are tolerable or not.

other wise we wouldnt bother with any security precuations ever, and just chalk up each terrorist attack to a "gee i wish we could have done something to prevent it" as we perpetualy grieve.

personally i think their is persecution of jews, and israel being the global jew to persecute.but im asking these questions in order to give those who claim to be against israel for legit reasons the opportunity to show me that it isnt about the same ol bullshit.