I think you ask some valuable questions with your blog. What I meant about throwing stones is that we should be able to discuss the issue without reverting to name calling as seems to be the case on many tough issues. Hell, it seems that most of the discussion on here is who are Jews and how long have they been persecuted and if Israel really has the right to exist.

I admit that I am not an expert on the whole Middle East situation, but there are some who come on here just to cast blame, particularly toward Israel because they think that their retaliations are too harsh when from my point of few they are responding after maintaining restraint for many months before they do finally take action.

It seems today, in this so-called modern society, no one listens to the other side. Everyone just reverts to their own trenches and hunkers down. How can the world solve any problems if all we do is yell and blame each other. It seems to me that to some extent Israel and Jews have become the world's punching bag.

"i can tell you that the jews are the worlds first niggers.pardon the crass verbage but if the show fits."

Interesting to note that someone who is always hurling around charges of racism and bigtry so easily that they would also be the ones who feel free to use racial slurs

yup, and im fine with it, as i used it as it is known as the most awefull racist shit that it is.

nice try tho.

but stick with trying to sell the notion i hate the a-rabs.you have more experience with that one, thus more of a chance of making it not look stupid

Did you know there is an arab sitting in the Isaeli kinesit? Do the Palestinians plan on having an Israeli sit in their governing body? Does Hamas have an Israeli among their tribe to possibly offset their aggression?

You make some valid points freecrack, but your terminology is distrubing and hardly condusive to garnering support, despite how valid your arguments are. Tone it down and you may find some support.

There you go again, on the attack of northernexpat who you're too stupid and hate filled to see she's on your side. You ought to shut this site down and have a little reality check with yourself.

I'm outta here. You can't tell a friend from the enemy because you are so consumed with resentment, you can't tell your own worst enemy is you.

Only one when the Arabs are 20% of the population of Israel... that one is simply a token Arab. As I remember, though I might be wrong, there are Palestinian Jews and Christians in the PLO. I don't know about Hamas (which is an Israeli creation, by the way).

ya know what, truth is truth, and rambling on as to how the jews were placed into a dehumanized entity to be exploited for the sake of it, doesnt come even close to accurately expressing the paradigm, and our understanding of all that comes along with the word "nigger" does.

it is as ugly as our history is, and is representative of the same human error that was applied to the jews previous to them.

i dont have an issue with northernexpat, and we do agree more often than not.

just sharing info.

Israelis have inhabited Palestine for 4,000 years.

And they lived in harmony with the Arabs until seventy or so years ago. Then the UN created Israel and the Palestinians were slaughtered by the thousands and chased out of the land by the hundreds of thousands, by the Zionists who until the creation of Palestine had never set foot there.

well this thread isnt for you really.
it is for the nonracists to explain to me their nonracist position as i cant seem to get it on my own.

you and maasanova are not people who claim to have any valid positions against israel, but are content playing the bigots game of "i know what they are really thinking" which is your own damage that i wish to avoid, not understand.

as far as your usual bullshit.
yes we know that haaretz always comes to the same conclusions, and they are a propaganda tool people such as yourselves love insame way neocons cite fox news.

what is also true is the land, enhabited or not, prior to war waged by others, was palestinian in residence but not ownership, which is how the jews picked that land, as it was the land the bought, thus theirs.it means the former residants, as always have to move when the new owners have different plans for the land.

much of the land was sold to them by the turks as it was swamp land, unenhabited.regardless of what out of context quotes you have from a half century after the fact, it doesnt change that no one lived in the swamps due to malaria, and only when the zionists used the european agricultural means of draining the swamps (mangroves) were they livable for anyone.

i can cite all the shipments of mangroves, and the places they were used.
you cant show us how the palestinians werent subject to the same malaria all the rest of humanity is.

in the end, regardless of your usual disjointed bullshit (which in this case both claims the israelis deny an existance of a people, while speaking of those people having villages)
their are over a million palestinians who are full citizens of israel denied nothing, as well as druze, while their are no jews tolerated in the palestinian territories.

this is simple fact.
two jews in ramallah caused a lynching for the crime of being jewish, while a million palestinians enjoy all israel has to offer.you are full of shit, and void of reality

the growth you speak of the rest of the world calls cancer.

"Where can the Israelis grow to if these are taken?"

does that justify the u.s taking hunks of Mexico, or Canada if it decides it wants/needs to "grow"?

Do you really believe what you said? Seems tweaked sideways. Even twisted.

It did take hunks of Mexico. More than one time. I wonder if Marsha knows that.

i dont buy the religion bullshit.

these are the same people who raised hell in what is known as the al-aqsa intefada, based on sharon just stepping on the temple mount.

while having arafat exhumed in the hopes of damning israel, even tho it cant be conclusively done either way.

like us, and israel, their religion is happenstance.

no, racists do, the rest of us get how every people require this.

but good job being you

justify no.

but do we live in a just world?
or a world that is kill or be killed?

do you really think for a second if that were the case we wouldnt take as much of mexico as we wanted?

if so, i refer you to how we expanded west and what it was before we took it (mexico) and what we have done in the middle east.

just?
no.

required to survive, perhaps.

and would you really expect anyone to not survive based in percieved justice?

I'm well aware of it. But since it happened 200 years ago, how exactly does that fit into what's happening between Israel and Palestinians since even before Israel was given statehood? Leave it to you guys to through the train off the tracks.

So true.

Study who really made the decisions that led to a supposed theocratic jewish state / colony in a land where jews and Arabs previously lived in peace. Western politics chaseing the do rae mee of the middle east oil riches. Jewish settlers are pons of entirely different power structures. Human shields for western protestant greed for whom only money and power count for anything.

Bro, how are you expecting someone to answer your questions when you're automatically assuming that anyone with another viewpoint is "racist"?

You're getting your information through the media as everyone else. Unless you have inside information, how is someone "racist" if they choose to side with Palestine and their need for equality?

Many people here made some good points on both sides, but if you're throwing around the racist word and already making people racist if they choose to side for Palestine, how are you going to get the answers you're looking for?

to suppose any "one" made the decision is just too short sighted to even validate.

it took herzl to think up zionism, many congresses to argue about it, as is essential for all matters jewish, young zionists to go and built the damn thing, the sabra to decide they wanted independance, british jews to bother petitioning their government, and the brits to decide to give a fuck, and the turks to decide to sell the land.

the united nations needed to decide to vote on recognizing them.

no ONE decided shit.

and to the notion of "living in peace"
do you consider the south east of the united states living in peace between 1865-1965?
cuz that was the social order you speak of and call peacefull, which is albeit quite when you kill those who even might demand rights for themselves.i mean after a klan lynching, a given town is awefull peacefull alright.

im not assuming one is racist, and this is my attempt at preventing myself from falling into the trap of assuming anything.

im asking people to explain to me what i cannot see on my own.

it is why i asked the question objectively rather than "how are the palestinians right when"

i just felt it would a dick move on my part to ask the question objectively w/o sharing my motives for doing so.

if you are for freedom for all, like the libertarians claim to be, then how can they support private business's denying service to people based on race, as rand paul fucked up with.it is that sort of thing.

i get how white phosphorous raining down on civilians can piss ya off.i get how the blockade can piss you off.i get all the individual points.

but i also get that they are each pieces in a larger issue, the way toppings are but a part of a pizza order.i cant understand how people can be so pissed about the health problems from eating the bacon on a pizza, while defending the pizza.

if all these things are what comes from war, how is the bad guy not the one who demands the war?

and what else is israel supposed to do, or any nation supposed to do when other nations try to destroy them?

what am i not getting is the motives are bigoted?

cuz assuming racism is all i can do when left with this void in understanding.a void im trying to fill as to not leave it to assumption.

You said it better than I did Ksirys, but we at least are both on the same page. Like some blacks have resorted to reverse racism - hating "whitey" - Freecrack has become a bit of a reverse jew-hater. Instead of really listening to another point of view, he's demanding his answers - wants no other point of view that does not FULLY support his - and hates anyone unable to come to a 100% agreement with him. He does not understand that in war there is no 100% anything. Mistakes are made on both sides, and yes,usually from the radical elements of both sides in this case.

ive listened for 35 yrs, of them 5 on this very site by this very community.

i dont hate them, as if i did i would approach them as maasanova does.

i believe their are 100% absolutes, but the question isnt about what i believe, but having what others believe make sense, as what they believe doesnt match with what they do.

we believe (the current community) more often than not, that war is 100 percent wrong.that those who wage war are 100 percent wrong.and it is in this belief, which happens to be mine, but primarily theirs that i am seeking they explain how it works for them, when they support some who wage war.