Community | January 04, 2013 | 134 comments

Schools ‘May Require Recitation Of The Lord’s Prayer’ Under Indiana Bill

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A state senator in Indiana introduced a bill on Thursday that would give public school districts the authority to mandate daily recitations of the Lord’s Prayer in public classrooms.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/04/1397651/indiana-lawmaker-wants-to-gi...
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134 comments // Schools ‘May Require Recitation Of The Lord’s Prayer’ Under Indiana Bill

  • Mark701
    • +2
      Mark701  
    • It never ends. When will these guys understand that Christianity is not above the law. I don't give a rats ass what they claim God is privately whispering in their ear. If this can be legislated so can reading the Koran in class or singing praise to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. See how that works? How ignorant.

    • 4 months ago
  • noxidereus
  • EdJoyProductions
    • +4
      EdJoyProductions  
    • I am going to speak from my own personal experience here, but some of the absolute worst people that I have ever come in contact with also claimed to be very religious. I assume that they think that religion is like an insurance policy against bad behavior. If they are delusional enough to believe that, it is not far fetched to think that they also believe anything they do is okay as long as they go to confession, or talk to their imaginary friend, or if they can find justification in a book written by men that thought the world was flat.

      This is, of course, unconstitutional.

      But for fun, I wanted to break this down:

      "Our Father, which art in heaven,
      Hallowed be thy Name."

      Really unconstitutional, as well as sexist. It assumes that god is a man, he lives in heaven and why can we not mention his name? I think it raises more questions than it is worth including some grammatical issues.

      "Thy Kingdom come.
      Thy will be done in earth,
      As it is in heaven."

      Well, I think even the religious people can agree that no one can know the mind of god. And it is pretty clear that no one living has any idea what goes on in heaven. This is not really clear.

      "Give us this day our daily bread.
      And forgive us our trespasses,
      As we forgive them that trespass against us."

      Well, god does not really go around physically giving anything material to anyone. So if you want bread, you really need to make some, buys some or steal some. However, I really do like that bit about forgiving trespasses. I wish more Christians would actually analyze that statement. If you actually believe this prayer, then persecuting people because they are different from you is not going to score you any points with the big guy.

      "And lead us not into temptation,
      But deliver us from evil."

      Well, again, if it is god's will to lead you into temptation, there is not a whole lot you can do about that. From what I understand, god really likes doing that. He is big on testing. So asking god to do something that he really likes to do is not fair and will probably just piss him off and make him send lots more temptation and evil your way.
      "For thine is the kingdom,
      The power, and the glory,
      For ever and ever.
      Amen."

      Yaddy yaddy yadda. I never really thought that this was a very well written prayer. Perhaps it lost something in translation, but if I was god, I would not be impressed. I would probably just find it annoying, if I was indeed listening at all.

      This is just a silly bill, introduced by a silly man.

    • 4 months ago
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +5
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • Image
    • EdJoyProductions:

      "This is just a silly bill..."

      Are you talkin' 'bout me, EDP? LOL! Your post reminds me of a joke I made up a while ago...

      I can hear it now! The Trinity Talk that went on in Heaven. The Equal Entities discussing which One would be coming to Earth to die for all Mankind!

      God 1: "You go! You're the One that loves those yokels the most!"
      God 2: "I have an idea! Let's flip a coin!"
      God 3: "I don't "do" games of chance! It's against MY religion!"
      God 2: "Well, how are We going to decide who among Us is going to sacrifice Himself for those sorry "no respect for their Creator" heathen sinners?"
      God 1: "Damn 'em! I suppose it IS My problem! After all, I created them in an image I chose!"
      God 3: "I told You to go with the monkeys, didn't I?"
      God 1: "Well, I COULD start all over again like when I sent that flood!"
      God 2: "And here I thought it was Our commode that overflowed all this time!"
      God 3: "Funny, God 2. You ARE the Comedian amongst the Three of Us!"

      The moral of this story...

      Never trouble trouble till trouble troubles you.

      I'm in trouble now! Ol' silly Bill.

    • 4 months ago
  • EdJoyProductions
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +4
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • EdJoyProductions:

      "...is god schizophrenic?"

      As Ms. Betty Bowers states (See video below)...God made love to His Mom to become His Son who happens to be His Father.

      So, I suppose He would have to be!

      And to answer your question...He hears His Mom's voice...she's the only one that's NOT Him in that "Trinity Trilogy"!

      Dang...I had to make three...count 'em...three edits to this one post. I ain't prefect, don't you know!

    • 4 months ago
  • SFirman
    • +4
      SFirman  
    • Anyone who thinks the Lord’s Prayer, or any prayer, in school is somehow going to make society a better place is a fool. There was plenty of deviant behavior and crime back when it was in school so stop acting like the US was some kind of Nirvana with it and now is some horrible place without it.
      There are plenty of people who grew up with prayer in school who are horrible human beings, just as there are many of us who have lived their lives without prayer who are decent, moral people.

      Prayer does not make a person good any more than lack of prayer makes someone bad. I do not believe non-religious views should be forced on children,

    • 4 months ago
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +3
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • Image
    • SFirman:

      +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d
      And a BIG FAT KISS to go with it! LOL

      Ain't I handscum?

    • 4 months ago
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • SFirman
  • SFirman
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +1
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • Image
    • SFirman:

      The Second Part of King Henry the Fourth - Act II. Scene I.

      "Away, you scullion! You rampallian! You fustilarian!", says I, the Bard of Avon, to thou...the foulest of Dopplegangers!

      LOL

    • 4 months ago
  • SFirman
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • SFirman
  • Mishima
  • SFirman
    • +3
      SFirman  
    • Mishima:

      Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour are not learned by saying a prayer in school. A commitment to morality should be taught in the home and church. Even though we may teach our young children well their may be shall I say a black sheep in many families. I don't really understand what goes wrong but the child with the best upbringing may go to bad behaviour.

    • 4 months ago
  • Mishima
    • +1
      Mishima [removed]  
    • SFirman:

      {Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour are not learned by saying a prayer in school.}

      That is what I wrote.

      { A commitment to morality should be taught in the home and church.}

      Of course, but I did not write anything to contradict that, of course.

      {Even though we may teach our young children well their may be shall I say a black sheep in many families.}

      Of course.

      {I don't really understand what goes wrong but the child with the best upbringing may go to bad behaviour.}

      Parents do not like to believe this but there are 3 essential things that contribute to the makeup of a child:
      Genetics
      The environment (school, neighborhood, peers, etc)
      Parents

      Now, most people would like to believe that parent rearing style and such are the most influential element, but they are BY FAR the least!
      Genetics make up about 40% of what goes into the makeup
      Environment - About 40%
      Parent upbringing - 10-15% Not much at all.

    • 4 months ago
  • SFirman
    • +2
      SFirman  
    • Mishima:

      I know that what I wrote was what you were saying. It is I that was agreeing with you with out just saying "Good comment" as I often do. Now you are breaking down what I know, but not as well as you put it.

      Behavioral genetics refers to genetics and environment in determining individual differences of behavior. Is this what you were saying to me?

      I guess I always believed your parents had more to do with your behavior.

    • 4 months ago
  • Mishima
    • 0
      Mishima [removed]  
    • SFirman:

      {Behavioral genetics refers to genetics and environment in determining individual differences of behavior. Is this what you were saying to me?}

      Pretty much. I just mentioned the research that partials out the average amount of influence each variable has because you wrote, " I don't really understand what goes wrong but the child with the best upbringing may go to bad behaviour." I was saying that parental upbringing accounts for very, very little.

    • 4 months ago
  • SFirman
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Vierotchka
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Vierotchka
    • +3
      Vierotchka  
    • MarshainFlorida:

      It was the best interpretation, musically speaking, that I found of the Lord's Prayer by Kedrov in the Russian Orthodox Liturgy. I agree that it should be limited to being sung in Churches and even in concerts. My point was that if children in schools were forced to hear or recite the Lord's Prayer, it wouldn't be too bad if it were in this form, not that it should be done.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Vierotchka
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Catmommy
    • +5
      Catmommy  
    • I am so sick of my home state being made to look like it's run by a bunch of ignorant, unconstitutional demagogues. Oh, wait -- it IS run by a bunch of ignorant, unconstitutional demagogues.That means that the only way to redeem Indiana is by getting the current government OUT.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Forgotten_Echo
  • tubagodd
    • +4
      tubagodd  
    • I am a Christian...and this is stupid, I don't want people being forced to do this, only makes me and my religion look worse.

    • 4 months ago
  • Catmommy
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Forgotten_Echo
    • -1
      Forgotten_Echo  
    • tubagodd:

      Agreed and with you on that. As a believer, I have my faith but I do not force it upon others. I have my beliefs and I see the modern "christianity" going way overboard in just about every manner.

      I can remember as a child in elementary school we started each day by standing and reciting the Pledge of Allegance and the Lord's Prayer. It was not mandated and each student could not participate if they so chose, or if their parents were against it. Mandating that every student recite the Lord's Prayer will only serve to drive more growing children away from religion.

    • 4 months ago
  • Mishima
    • 0
      Mishima [removed]  
    • Forgotten_Echo:

      {I can remember as a child in elementary school we started each day by standing and reciting the Pledge of Allegance and the Lord's Prayer. It was not mandated and each student could not participate if they so chose, or if their parents were against it. Mandating that every student recite the Lord's Prayer will only serve to drive more growing children away from religion.}

      Have you seen the bill? By the description, it appears that nobody is forced to say it, only that someone must say it. But if this is inaccurate, please let me know.

    • 4 months ago
  • youngdebater
    • +3
      youngdebater  
    • When are these people gonna understand that Christianity or any other religion should not be forced upon kids (or any other person)? Just respect one's religion, and get on with their lives

    • 4 months ago
  • letsliveinpeace
  • HillarysBloodClot
  • Catmommy
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +2
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • Catmommy:

      And I spent ten whole minutes coming up with a retort I was going to post for HillarysBloodClot...I hit submit and kaboom, that bloodclot got dissolved by the Mods!

      I wanted to clarify a couple of points with HBC how that First Amendment pertains to public places and not a privately owned website that can and would be held responsible for what's posted therein. And how Republicans get worked up about that "1st Amendment muscle" not being exercised enough...except when someone uses it like that newspaper printing the names of gun owners and all. And since he or she was all in a frazzle about having their comment removed for speaking about a mother and her daughters being raped and how Libruls don't like to be contradicted about rights.

      I guess I wasted a good video I wanted to share with HBC about how rape is sooo unChristian-like, too!

      Or....I could still post it!

      Yeah...that's the ticket!

      }8^)

    • 4 months ago
  • Mishima
  • Gordon_Shumway
  • Mishima
  • Gordon_Shumway
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • MarshainFlorida
  • OlBlue
  • Vierotchka
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Vierotchka
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Vierotchka
  • Vierotchka
    • +2
      Vierotchka  
    • Buckeye_Bill:

      Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu

      May all beings be happy...May all my thoughts, words and actions contribute in some way to the happiness of all beings.

      Shanti (Śānti)

      Shanti (Pali: Santi) simply means "peace". It’s a beautiful meaning and also a very beautiful sound. The shanti is repeated three times, as are many chants in Buddhism. In Buddhism as well as in Hinduism the threefold Shanti is generally interpreted as meaning the Threefold Peace in body, speech, and mind (i.e. peace in the entirety of one’s being).

      Hindu teachings typically end with the words Om shanti shanti shanti as an invocation of peace, and the mantra is also used to conclude some Buddhist devotional ceremonies.

      Addressed to everyone.

    • 4 months ago
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +4
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • Image
    • Vierotchka:

      Since I am a half-bleed Tsa La Gi (Cherokee), my father inculcated within me certain attributes...the Native American Code of Conduct:

      1. Each morning upon rising, and each evening before sleeping, give thanks for the life within you and for all life, for the good things the Creator has given you and for the opportunity to grow a little more each day. Consider your thoughts and actions of the past day and seek for the courage and strengthto be a better person. Seek for the things that will benefit others (everyone).

      2. Respect. Respect means "To feel or show honor or esteem for someone or something; to consider the well being of, or to treat someone or somethin with deference or courtesy". Showing respect is a basic law of life.

      a. Treat every person from the tiniest child to the oldest elder with respect at all times.

      b. Special respect should be given to Elders, Parents, Teachers, and Community Leaders.

      c. No person should be made to feel "put down" by you; avoid hurting other hearts as you would avoid a deadly poison.

      d. Touch nothing that belongs to someone else (especially Sacred Objects) without permission, or an understanding between you.

      e. Respect the privacy of every person, never intrude on a person's quiet moment or personal space.

      f. Never walk between people that are conversing.

      g. Never interrupt people who are conversing.

      h. Speak in a soft voice, especially when you are in the presence of Elders, strangers or others to whom special respect is due.

      i. Do not speak unless invited to do so at gatherings where Elders are present (except to ask what is expected of you, should you be in doubt).

      j. Never speak about others in a negative way, whether they are present or not.

      k. Treat the earth and all of her aspects as your mother. Show deep respect for the mineral world, the plant world, and the animal world. Do nothing to pollute our Mother, rise up with wisdom to defend her.

      l. Show deep respect for the beliefs and religion of others.

      m. Listen with courtesy to what others say, even if you feel that what they are saying is worthless. Listen with your heart.

      n. Respect the wisdom of the people in council. Once you give an idea to a council meeting it no longer belongs to you. It belongs to the people. Respect demands that you listen intently to the ideas of others in council and that you do not insist that your idea prevail. Indeed you should freely support the ideas of others if they are true and good, even if those ideas ideas are quite different from the ones you have contributed. The clash of ideas brings forth the Spark of Truth.

      3. Once a council has decided something in unity, respect demands that no one speak secretly against what has been decided. If the council has made an error, that error will become apparent to everyone in its own time.

      4. Be truthful at all times, and under all conditions.

      5. Always treat your guests with honor and consideration. Give of your best food, your best blankets, the best part of your house, and your best service to your guests.

      6. The hurt of one is the hurt of all, the honor of one is the honor of all.

      7. Receive strangers and outsiders with a loving heart and as members of the human family.

      8. All the races and tribes in the world are like the different colored flowers of one meadow. All are beautiful. As children of the Creator they must all be respected.

      9. To serve others, to be of some use to family, community, nation, and the world is one of the main purposes for which human beings have been created. Do not fill yourself with your own affairs and forget your most important talks. True happiness comes only to those who dedicate their lives to the service of others.

      10. Observe moderation and balance in all things.

      11. Know those things that lead to your well-being, and those things that lead to your destruction.

      12. Listen to and follow the guidance given to your heart. Expect guidance to come in many forms; in prayer, in dreams, in times of quiet solitude, and in the words and deeds of wise Elders and friends.

      Source: http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/nacodeethics.htm

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +1
      MarshainFlorida  
    • Vierotchka:

      Ever since I started watching the Senate and House proceedings on CSPAN and noticed they always had these ministers, priests and rabiis opening the proceedings with a prayer, I wondered "Why isn't separation of church and state observed here?" It's been one of my major gripes everytime I've tuned in a bit too early. It's appalling that there is no separation of church and state in Congress. If these yokels find it so necessary to pray, let them go to their own churches in the morning before Congress convenes.

      Religious beliefs belong in peoples' own homes or houses of worship. That's the only place they truly belong, yet it seems to me it's the only place that it is truly missing. A shining example of that is that jackass Republican from (I think SC) who is anti-abortion, yet made his girlfriend abort his child as well as his wife. Hypocrits!

      If these radicals who want to shove their religious beliefs down everyone else's throats would at least be half as devoted to our Constitution as they are to their religious dogma, we might all get along a little bit better.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Vierotchka
  • Vierotchka
    • +3
      Vierotchka  
    • Buckeye_Bill:

      I don't remember if I told you before - my husband too is a half-bleed (as you put it). His mother is the daughter of Trail of Tears survivors who escaped on the way. She was half Cherokee half Choctaw. :)

    • 4 months ago
  • Vierotchka
  • Vierotchka
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Vierotchka
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • 0
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • MarshainFlorida:

      +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d, +^d

      Right backatcha!

    • 4 months ago
  • EmperorThan
    • +5
      EmperorThan  
    • I'd like to attach an amendment to the end of the bill requiring all children to take peyote per the Native American Church. We have to respect all religious views guys... lol

    • 4 months ago
  • Vierotchka
  • jim_b
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Leen61
    • +6
      Leen61  
    • Guess what, Einstein. Not every child is a Christian. Isn't this sort of like forcing a pro-life pharmacist to fill birth control perscriptions? If they have their religious right to refuse to do their jobs, kids shouldn't be forced to violate their religious teachings.

    • 4 months ago
  • COMMONSENSEFORCOMMONGOOD_COM
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Vierotchka
  • MarshainFlorida
    • 0
      MarshainFlorida  
    • COMMONSENSEFORCOMMONGOOD_COM:

      I'd go with Roberts being the swing vote in our favor. He's surprised us before. And he's a staunch supporter of separation of church & state. Actually, there's not much wiggle room for what that means. But I'd still like to see prayers removed from Congress. If it can be kept out of there, it should be kept out of everywhere.

    • 4 months ago
  • HarukoHaruhara
  • Wyley_Wombat
    • +7
      Wyley_Wombat  
    • I remember having prayer forced upon me and used to rebel by changing the words. Example Our father who's not in heaven Hollow be thy name etc etc. And I was only 10

    • 4 months ago
  • attilatheblond
  • Wyley_Wombat
  • attilatheblond
  • Gordon_Shumway
  • cw9000
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • MarshainFlorida
  • MarshainFlorida
  • MarshainFlorida
  • JanforGore
    • +8
      JanforGore  
    • Damn fringe trying to infringe on our right to pray when and where we want in our hearts. Mandating prayer doesn't prove you are a Christian, just a Fascist.

    • 4 months ago
  • OlBlue
  • attilatheblond
  • OlBlue
    • +5
      OlBlue  
    • attilatheblond:

      And not passing the Violence Against Women Act.
      And forced TV ultrasound, another form of rape.
      And love of war.
      And love of guns.
      And intolerance of just about everything.........

    • 4 months ago
  • HillarysBloodClot
  • Buckeye_Bill
  • Buckeye_Bill
    • +3
      Buckeye_Bill  
    • Image
    • OlBlue:

      "And intolerance of just about everything........."

      I can't recall who posted this...wish I could to give him or her credit...but here it is anywho:

      "I LOVE to find a Gideon Bible when I travel! It's fun to write in them and create little 'Bible studies' of my OWN for the next guests...contradictory scriptures, the bloody and horrifying stuff that doesn't get taught in churches...being atheist who's actually studied the book, it's fun to leave a little 'enlightenment' of my own. A favorite: Link up John 1: 1-4. Go to I Corinthians 10: 1-4, Hebrews 13: 8. Then zip back to Joshua 10 and 11. Result: You end up proving that Jesus ordered gleeful mass murder of men, women, children and animals.

      Another favorite is how 'righteous Lot' tried tossing his two scared virgin daughters to be gang-raped in order to save two VIP angels. Fun!"

      Excerpt:
      Joshua 10:40 - "40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

      Well, Joshua did have to make room for God's people...right?

      Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
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