Community | January 28, 2013 | 320 comments

Veracity Check: Are Obama Drone Strikes War Crimes?

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StewSteve
If silence is equivalent to approval, then both Republicans and Democrats are silently endorsing President Obama’s undeclared wars using aerial drones to assassinate terrorist targets in other countries. As technologically accurate as the drone missiles are, “collateral damage,” a polite term for the death of innocent women and children, is invariable. The United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights has announced a special inquiry into civilian deaths associated with drone strikes and other forms of targeted killing...

http://veracitystew.com/?p=48285
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320 comments // Veracity Check: Are Obama Drone Strikes War Crimes?

  • Tayllerand
  • matka
  • puzyboi
  • matka
    • +3
      matka  
    • puzyboi:

      FUR real, my comrade. Take the Bush election w/the Diebold involvement and
      the computer chip in the voting machines. Take anything that wuz a play on de
      Amerikan people.

    • 4 months ago
  • Saladin
    • +3
      Saladin  
    • This is a good question, and the ethical/legal part of my brain wants to say yes.

      But the critical thinking part of my brain calls bullshit on the whole thing.

      See, there is no such thing as a "war crime." And I don't mean that in the sense that it's impossible to do something beyond the pale in war.

      I mean that there is no international court enforcing some kind of international law punishing people for disgusting acts of violence during wars.

      This is partially because war itself has changed. The days of large, pitched battles, total war, are pretty much gone.

      Most of it is fought clandestinely, through secret massacres, acts of terrorism or long occupations.

      But it's mainly because a "war crime" is a political crime.

      It's not that we punish people who commit "war crimes," we punish people who commit "war crimes" who don't have the international backing to give themselves legitimacy.

      To put it bluntly, war crimes are political theater!

      It's been true since Nuremberg. Even though that had good intentions, we would never punish our own people, or our allies, for doing the same thing.

      War crimes trials are what we give to despotic leaders after they fall from power to assist in the transition to new governments.

      They are NOT some kind of legal system we use to enforce ethics.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
    • +1
      matka  
    • Saladin:

      Wow .. lots to say and come good insights. U are deep thinker. I mentioned the
      Nuremberg Trials so putziboy and he responded, ' Think of de last election my
      friend.'
      Wot is all this dissection of a main RAW < (WAR spelled backwards),
      that is now 'political theater/political crime?

      Maybe 'ethical/legal' part of yer brain should say yes ... if it has, then U would
      not be troubled by such thoughts.
      Too much thinkin' brings about a swirl of controversy in your brain.
      The Yin & Yang of it all.....black & white, up and down, front and back, in & out,
      ONE COULD NOT BE WITHOUT THE OTHER.

    • 4 months ago
  • s_peak
    • +1
      s_peak  
    • Saladin:

      Well said. I voted you up, but I'm not sure why you got a down vote.

      Pretty much all war should be a crime. It's strange that we've even accepted war into our every day lives now... as some kind of consequence of being human. And it's to the point where there is a "Wrong way" to make war. I see your point... we're pretty backwards to have this frame of mind... and I hope to live to see the idea of war become obsolete.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
  • MolliBlum
  • PressCore
    • +2
      PressCore  
    • I'm intelligent enough to recognize a rhetorical question inviting debate
      when I see one...So this is no criticism intended to demean civility, Still...
      From my p.o.v., I contend that any fool who even needs to ask that lame
      question is too moraly bankrupt & retarded to take yes for an answer
      anyway, so wtf should people act so timid as to question this sordid reality ?

      We all know the kind of Janus the United Snakes is on denouncing other
      countries' deplorable History on violating people's human rights while
      the hypocrits routinely attempt to " justify " Mass Murdering foreign
      children one innocent life at a time. If it takes the UN to commence an
      honest investigation into these War Crimes which should be formaly
      tried in The Hague, then it only goes to show Amercians aren't in control
      of their own country anymore. For if the term American has only become
      so trendy as to be defined as foreignly UnAmerican, and monstrous, then
      we've betrayed the legacy entrusted to us to relay to future generations
      as our own American Heritage was relayed to us...And have thus become so
      foreign to the virtues & conscience that's traditionaly defined Americans
      as just that we've redefined ourselves as nothing more than something
      undead. And yeah, it IS something as simple as only that despite all the
      irrelevant cerebral abstractions aired here. Because if you can't feel,
      then you shouldn't pretend you're even human. Get the picture ?

    • 4 months ago
  • crabbyoldguy
  • PressCore
    • +2
      PressCore  
    • crabbyoldguy:

      Democrats and Republcans are only designer labels
      intended to sell the same sleezy circumstances. The Corporate Fascists
      of Monsanto, Dupont, Big Pharma, Big Ag, the M.I.C., the Prison Industrial
      Complex, the Rothschild Banksters' foreign Federal Reserve have bought
      their Big G like a sack of potatoes every day for 48 years now. Americans
      are only pawns on their chessboard. Vierotchka has posted articles showing
      the Fasces is the symbol in the Oval Office, the Congress, so many private
      organizations it would astound the unwary. When most accept and support
      the Iron Fist veiled in the Black Velvet Glove the Bushes have been pushing
      since 1963, as the song says" " We have a kinder, gentler machine gun hand "

      It was no different during the 1930s and 1940s in Germany, Italy, Japan. Only
      names like Mitzubishi, Messershmidt, Fiat were substituted for the same merde.
      Check out Pablo Picasso's painting of Guernecica sometime and see how the
      daylight bombing of civilians as terrorism has gone on since 1936, since 1930
      with Japanese invading China. From Neil Young to Mark Knophler, we have
      " Industrial disease ". The result of existing in a Fascist war without end
      Orwellian TV surevilance culture is that tax paying Americans have been
      tricked into funding the real domestic terrorists in suits in DC. When debt
      based currency, lab created "food" and " medicine " have all been weaponized
      with nothing more than a yawn you can't expect Democrats to be more than
      wolves in sheeps clothing either. As the saying goes: " People should always
      be careful what they wish for. Because it just might happen to them instead ".
      I scoff at the idea " it can't happen here " the pipe dream of ignorant fools
      and wet dreamers that is

      My God, it already has happened here for 48 years with the waking sleep
      hypnotized sheeple staring at their boob tubes that have mind controlled &
      manipulated them to their detriment. There was a CIA coup that Murdered
      a President in Nov.1963 in Texas that I never see anyone, save for me, even
      remind people of. When a war hero President's own crooked Government
      betrays him so thoroughly as to Murder him then cover it up, what chance
      do you think YOU'LL have ??? You know God damned well those crimimialy
      psychotic maniacs will train those drones, or their weapons, on you eventualy
      if you speak out against their Nazi war crimes. What we're existing through
      now is all the revolting developments that have stemmed from that fateful
      day in Dallas that Americans have been too asleep at the wheel to recognize
      much less even care about. It's an important enough matter of conscience
      to me that I'm changing my citizenship to live in a free country again unmolested
      by Fascism and slavers. Americans shouldn't need the 1992 Rodney King demonstraters to chant " No Justice, no Peace " before they wake up to see
      the bed they've made for themselves they'll now have to sleep in.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
  • puzyboi
  • MolliBlum
  • PressCore
    • +1
      PressCore  
    • MolliBlum:

      Thanks. I've decided to apply for Swiss citizenship in 2014 so that by 2029,
      I'll have earned my naturalization papers there. It takes 180 days of residence
      each year to move through the 3 stages from resident foreign alien to Swiss...
      But there's no place on earth I'd rather spend all my Springs & Summers than
      in the Alpine meadows. The rest of the year I can spend in the U.K. of the
      Netherlands, the Czeck Republic, and Northern Italy, again in the Alps, before
      I return to Zurich. I used to live near lake Geneva during the Winter 1979. It's
      also a wonderful place. Here in the USA it's so oppressive they have to put
      Gold in a depository guarded by a tank batallion. And still they don't allow
      visitors to see it. In Switzerland the banks aren't military bunkers. They place
      their Gold openly in windows after making sure their citizens are so prosperous
      noone needs to steal those coins. The USB and Swisse Credit banks in
      Geneva are like what clothing stores are in the USA. They want to make
      sure people have absolute confidence in their economy. I recall back in
      1979 when I had 100 Swiss Franc notes in my pocket. Rock solid stable.
      It's the best country in the world for kids to be born in. I owe it to my heirs.

      I've a house in upstate New York I realy love, but the ghetto trash atmosphere
      here is so horrificly ugly & oppressive I'm only coming back to visit my memories
      so as not to loose touch with my roots. I haven't realy considered myself an
      American citizen since I graduated from high school in 1967. 45 years is too
      long a time to live amongst strangers I largely don't relate to. In Geneva they
      have a German term for foreigners. They call them auslandern. Noone can
      immagine how alienated and estranged I feel toward this country and most
      of it's people despite having been born & naturalized here, Molliblum. It was
      different when I lived out West. Still after living in both Colorado and Switzerland
      I'd choose Switzerland any day of the year. As it now feels too unnatural for
      me to pursue life, liberty and happiness amongst Americans I know I'll never
      miss New York. Only my own modest piece of it. There's a reason why Europe
      starts with an EU., being the Greek term for optimal. Thanks for your input.
      Life is too precious and brief to waste it around beasts trying to be king of the jungle.

    • 4 months ago
  • MolliBlum
  • matka
    • +2
      matka  
    • PressCore:

      The Chezch Republic .... Slavic importance. Now jump to Poland, or the

      Uklraine. Would u like to visit there? I woud due to 'roots'.

      Life is too short for living under jungle beast, tak. I've never considered myself
      a U.S. citizen for long time, too. This is Corporate Amerika..... this why people
      in the know spell it out as they do.

    • 4 months ago
  • PressCore
    • 0
      PressCore  
    • MolliBlum:

      Not stopping me, rather slowing me down, Molliblum. I've
      been the victim of U.S.Govt agent Organized Crime every day of my life
      since 1968. They had Stalked me overseas when I lived in Geneva in 1979.
      I need to secure my home, reinstate my passport, acquire the necessary
      means to travel after I civily prosecute the U.S. & WSYR in Court, obtain
      U.S. criminal Court orders against them Stalking me further in their Murder
      Conspiracy which has seen several Attempts on my life since 1979.. I also
      need to bring them to Justice and see them imprisoned. Et al.When I feel
      ready to emigrate I will without hesitation. It will be an immense relief to
      see & hear the last of the evil elements vexing my life in New York which
      is my idea of Tartarus.

      Zurich, if I understand correctly is the largest city in Switzerland, and near
      Lake La Guarda in Northern Italy. I've seen them in the HD NET channel
      documentary the Alps From Above. It will take me 10 days to learn both
      basic Italian, and relearn basic German which I studied in college before
      I can converse with the folks there. Much longer to acquire their accent,
      but living in those places where I can live a normal life away from Amerikan
      invaders is well worth it. Existing here in New York is no better than being
      a Jew in Nazi Germany.

    • 4 months ago
  • PressCore
    • 0
      PressCore  
    • matka:

      No, the Czeck Republic will be good enough for now. There
      are special reasons why for me. Besides, I homebrew my own style
      of Pilsnser Lager, adding brown malted barley to balance the wert:
      ( unfinished, raw brew; it comes from a German term meaning " worth " )
      We Germans understand that real life, like honest beer, is bittersweet.
      The brewers in Pilsen can give me some tips to get reacqainted with
      my hobby, and obtain fresh aromatic herbal hops with which to again
      start a 5 gallon batch. I have to check on the local laws too. In the USA
      in New York it's legal to homebrew up to 800 gallons a year for personal
      consumption in a household of one. I won't be taking baths in it as the
      fellow who started Sam Adams has. But, having a Bierkellar is the next
      best thing to maintaining a well stocked Weinkellar known for Krausening ?
      There's a gene in yeasts which allows them to live forever given enough
      of a food supply. It's a superfood, like avocados.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
    • +1
      matka  
    • PressCore:

      Beer......lager, YUK ! But to each his own.

      I love avacados..... guacamole, or eaten sliced the fruit itself. Peel off skin, inside
      huge 'pit' which can be grown in a paper cup to begin an avacago tree. I'm sure
      you've heard of this.

    • 4 months ago
  • PressCore
  • matka
  • JanforGore
    • +3
      JanforGore  
    • Image
    • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/drone-hacked-by-universit_n_1638100.htm...

      When the U.S. Department of Homeland Security dared a Texas university research group to bring down a flying drone, the team accepted the challenge and did just that.

      Turns out it's not too difficult to hack a drone.

      Nor too expensive, for that matter. RT reports that the University of Texas at Austin scientists, led by Professor Todd Humphreys, managed to bring down a flying drone with a spoofer costing just $1,000. The research group gained control of the University-owned drone by using a device to hack its GPS system, according to Scientific American.

      Fox News explains how "spoofing" a drone's GPS system works, as well as the advantages of this tactic over GPS-jammers: "While jammers can cause problems by muddling GPS signals, spoofers are a giant leap forward in technology; they can actually manipulate navigation computers with false information that looks real."

      The BBC notes that the same technique may have been employed by Iran when it captured a largely undamaged American drone last year.

      Unmanned aerial vehicles, also known as drones, have become increasingly central to U.S. counterterrorism operations. The United States has deployed drones over Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen.

      http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/talking-back/2012/06/28/researchers-hack-dro...
      ________________________________

      Imagine an "enemy" being able to hack into one of these drones, land it where they want and take it for their own. Or, imagine an "enemy" hacking one and changing the coordinates to drop the bombs on us or an "ally" thus precipitating world war three.That capability could essentially see us having our own drones used as weapons against us without the hacker even needing to spend the billions we do on this while people in our own country still go unemployed and hungry. In short, it is insanity.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +2
      MarshainFlorida  
    • JanforGore:

      I saw that same program on RT. I have no idea how heavy these drones are, but they thought of one being brought down on a large city here is something to be considered. Knowing college students can bring them down just by jamming their computers - well, kids will be kids, and we may be in for it.

    • 4 months ago
  • PressCore
    • +1
      PressCore  
    • JanforGore:

      Bravo Jan. Well said. You forgot one country though. These
      status quo terrorists have already deployed drones over the USA and
      put them in the hands of domestic terrorist lunatics who'd like nothing
      better than to deploy them against the Americans " they love to hate ".

    • 4 months ago
  • mitekillem
    • +2
      mitekillem  
    • JanforGore:

      Was this current Military drone Jan? You know, one of the ones that uses different levels of embedded encryption in the communication protocols between the command center and the drone itself. Or was this a "drone"(unmanned remote vehicle) that was deployed by an individual or agency less concerned with secrecy? Better still was this a decommissioned drone or one created after July of 2012? -If it was before that time period, or a decommissioned drone, then this is outdated information, and has probably already been corrected by drones currently under deployment.

    • 4 months ago
  • puzyboi
  • matka
  • puzyboi
  • matka
  • s_peak
  • matka
    • +1
      matka  
    • s_peak:

      The Chinese government is using drones to spy on its' citizens. A woman on
      Public Radio said, " I was going to court one day to observe a hearing. When I
      reached my destination, I was arrested outside the courthouse."

    • 4 months ago
  • truth_accessor
  • MarshainFlorida
  • matka
  • puzyboi
  • matka
  • puzyboi
  • matka
  • puzyboi
  • matka
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +2
      MarshainFlorida  
    • These drone strikes are an abomination. It's hard to believe that a president who speaks so logically about wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy so that our children don't go hungry, and then seems to be totally devoid of feeling when he authorizes these drones to kill hundreds of innocent civilians, including children, in another country. It's total senseless.

      And now after watching RTTV last night on "Break the Set" I learned that at any one time, we have no less thank 800 drones flying over our own country, spying on us. How long before they start shooting at us from up there?

      We desparately need to get more progressives in office and hope they stop all this crap.

    • 4 months ago
  • sedwin
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +5
      MarshainFlorida  
    • sedwin:

      There are already petitions started on that. I've signed every one I could find. What I'd really like to see is our defense budget cut by almost one-half, with the other half going to renewable energy, primarily wind, solar and biofuel. In that movie I watched this morning called FUEL, while the oil companies want us to believe that biofuel will take food from the tables, they showed it was entirely untrue. They were making biofuel from the waste waters of citys' water plants and turning it into biofuel. They were also making it from algae, so there are many ways to make it without distrubing food crops.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
  • PressCore
    • +3
      PressCore  
    • MarshainFlorida:

      It's the extreme demand for crude oil in the
      making of plastics and petrochemical fertilizers to chemicly deplete
      the soil in the growing of food crops whose deficient produce makes
      Americans weak and sickly that inflates the price. It's also been shown
      plastics can be made from non poisonous organic sources.Obviously
      biofuels can power automotive diesels much more cheaply than gas.
      For economic reasons per se Big Oil knows it wouldn't be able to shake
      people down and retain it's Monopoly if it couldn't brainwash people into
      accepting it's undeserved power that's been depressing all developed
      nation's economies since Tesla.invented the patents for solar power
      and the induction motor in 1900,

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +3
      MarshainFlorida  
    • PressCore:

      "It's also been shown plastics can be made from non poisonous organic sources." Yes indeed, but big oil doesn't want anyone to know that. We could be living in a much less toxic world, and so could all the ocean creatures, if not for big oil. And do you remember Standard Oil being broken up because it was a monopoly? Well, it's back under the name Exxon/Mobil which originally sprang from Standard Oil's monopoly charges. Where are the Sherman Anti-Trust laws when we need them. I'm hoping Elizabeth Warren can help fix some of this. Those to-big-to-fail banks also need to be broken up, and downsized so that they can be manageable. Right now, it's anybody's guess how much they have. I've heard so many guestamates, it's useless to try figuring it out.

    • 4 months ago
  • MSII
  • puzyboi
  • sedwin
  • sedwin
  • puzyboi
    • -1
      puzyboi [removed]  
    • sedwin:

      That time has been going on for decades now. The patriot act is small potatoes compared to real government corruption. We continue to elect officials who cater to big biz and military interests so the blame really lays with government not big business. Can we expect this kind of change in our life times? Highly doubtful my friend.

    • 4 months ago
  • sedwin
  • puzyboi
    • -1
      puzyboi [removed]  
    • sedwin:

      Yes, comparitively speaking I would call the Patriot act small potatoes. At least it is not infrigng upon the rights of the average American citizen, just mostly those with criminal intent. Has the patriot act somehow negitively affected you or anyone you know personally? We are supposed to have free speech. That is in the constitution. Yet we see restrictions on our speech and what we may say in a public forum. Both Democrats and Republicans seem more interested in preserving their power than doing the right thing for the country. They are doing everything possible to erode our rights. Just look at Al Gore. He is only one former politician who wants to make rules for everyone but himself. He touts conservation yet wants to exempt himself with "carbon credits." The government wants to control our health care. They all have free healthcare as provided by the people but under her system we would be forced to give up more of our money and rights to decent healthcare. The Environmental Protection Agency can take land and impose fines in the name of the environment without trial. There have been many documented situations of abuse by this agency. The Internal Revenue Service is an agency which basically operates with impunity. Although the amendment to provide for an income tax was never passed by enough states to legally ratify, it has become law. Try to not pay income taxes in this country and you will likely go to jail. They have since become more and more intrusive and can take property or money without due process. We have allowed this government to become so bloated that we no longer know what is going on.

    • 4 months ago
  • sedwin
  • puzyboi
    • 0
      puzyboi [removed]  
    • sedwin:

      Funny pal. These aren't conspiracies but well documented facts. I have no bomb shelter because if the shit ever did hit the fan I would prefer to be at ground zero anyway. My point is that in my opinion which is just as valid as yours, is that I feel the Patriot act is small potatoes. But regardless it seems to be held in high esteem by both party's and the current sitting president as he keeps enhancing and signing the updates. It's become a much better act under Obama than Bush could have ever dreamed of. Peace.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
    • 0
      MarshainFlorida  
    • sedwin:

      I'm providing you here with a copy of a response I received [supposedly] from the Prez by email when he was in Los Vegas, so I'm sure it was written by a staffer. I wrote him a 4-page letter covering everything from our ridiculous overthrow of governments for greed purposes only, right through to the devastation caused by failing to take a more positive approach to the issues of global warming, and asking he not go through with the Keystone Pipeline.

      Dear Marsha:

      Thank you for writing. Few challenges facing our Nation are more urgent than climate change, and I appreciate your perspective.

      Our planet’s future depends on a global commitment to permanently reduce the greenhouse gas pollution causing climate change. We have strong scientific consensus on addressing this challenge immediately, and we have an obligation to act. Changing the way we produce and use energy is essential to securing a prosperous economic future, enhancing our national security, and protecting our environment for generations to come.

      My Administration is addressing climate change first and foremost by pursuing an all-of-the-above energy strategy that focuses on developing every source of American energy—a strategy aimed at reducing our reliance on foreign oil, expanding oil and gas production, and positioning the United States as the global leader in clean energy.

      To decrease our dependence on foreign oil, we established the toughest new efficiency standards for cars and trucks in history. These fuel economy standards will double the fuel efficiency of our cars and light trucks by the middle of the next decade. The United States also leads the world in natural gas production, with reserves that can last nearly 100 years—a supply that can power our cars, homes, and factories in a cleaner and cheaper way, and one that experts believe will support more than 600,000 jobs by the end of the decade. However, we must utilize this reserve without putting the health and safety of Americans at risk. That is why, for the first time ever, I am requiring all companies drilling for gas on public lands to disclose the chemicals they use.

      Thanks in part to my Administration’s investments in clean energy—the largest in American history—the United States has nearly doubled renewable energy generation from wind, solar, and geothermal sources, and thousands of Americans now have jobs as a result. By cooperating with the private sector, we have positioned our country to be the world’s leading manufacturer of the high-tech batteries that will power the next generation of American cars. I have repeatedly called on Congress to stop giving away $4 billion a year in oil subsidies to an industry that has never been more profitable, and instead to pass clean energy tax credits to cultivate a market for innovation in clean energy technology. And I have directed the Department of the Interior to allow the development of enough clean energy on public lands to power three million homes. The United States military—the largest energy consumer in the world—is also doing its part, making one of the largest commitments to clean energy in history.

      As we work to reduce our own emissions, we must also forge solutions that ensure every country does the same. I was proud to renew our Nation’s leadership on this issue during international climate change negotiations through the United Nations and the Major Economies Forum. Working with international partners, we made historic progress toward phasing out fossil fuel subsidies, which could reduce global greenhouse gas emissions 10-12 percent by 2050. We also reached a global accord to set national targets to reduce emissions, establish transparent ways to review commitments, and assist developing countries. The threat posed by climate change is not confined within the borders of any country, and our response must continue to be global.

      Americans must summon the spirit of optimism and the willingness to tackle tough problems that led previous generations to meet the challenges of their times. My Administration is making a serious, sustained commitment to address climate change, and I encourage you to learn more about our efforts at www.WhiteHouse.gov/energy/climate-change.

      Thank you, again, for writing.

      Sincerely,

      Barack Obama


      To be frank, I'm not at all satisfied with this letter. It sounds more like a campaign speech. But like you, I'm going to keep plugging away, and I hope everyone else will do the same.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
  • PressCore
    • +3
      PressCore  
    • Leen61 refered me to the Brasscheck and Real Econ TV websites using
      the UTube format and citing bibliographies on a vast array of topics for
      citizen Journalistic research. Nobama's drone strikes are no different
      than a Mob hit or a modern day terrorist attack on civilians. The rogue
      military obsession with targeting civilian children and funeral processions
      is the inconscionable egregious atrocity Nobama has no problem with.
      And the unvarnished fact that this is Mass Murder 1 , one life at a time,
      is something Bush dark goes along with to get along with. Brasscheck's
      website recently cited an interview with Madeline Albright who also had no
      problem whatsoever with the Mass Murder 1 of 1/2 Million Iraqi children.
      They concluded Americans have monsters running their country. I agree.

    • 4 months ago
  • Leen61
    • +2
      Leen61  
    • PressCore:

      "Brasscheck's website recently cited an interview with Madeline Albright who also had no
      problem whatsoever with the Mass Murder 1 of 1/2 Million Iraqi children.
      They concluded Americans have monsters running their country. I agree."

      I saw that video, PressCore. I agreed with that conclusion as well.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
  • PressCore
    • +2
      PressCore  
    • Leen61:

      Thanks for the moral support, Leen61. Even retired
      Treasury officials have publicly commented that the USA badly needs
      a Revolution to eliminate the Organized Crime mobs which have
      overpowered all the legitimate, law abiding honest Government still in
      place here. From the days of Vietnam, Amerika has become one
      clusterbomb explosion of domestic atrocity and tragedy. I've never
      been one to live on my knees kowtowing to those damned souls
      who've propagated their Hate crime on me and others of conscience..

    • 4 months ago
  • Leen61
  • fiberbundle
    • +3
      fiberbundle  
    • Another "war crime" by the "criminal " Roosevelt?

      U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox to "Get Yamamoto." Knox instructed Admiral Chester W. Nimitz of Roosevelt's wishes. Admiral Nimitz consulted Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander, South Pacific, then authorized a mission on 17 April to intercept Yamamoto's flight en route and shoot it down. A squadron of Lockheed P-38 Lightning aircraft were assigned the task as only they possessed the range to intercept and engage. Select pilots from three units were informed that they were intercepting an "important high officer" with no specific name given.

      On the morning of 18 April, despite urgings by local commanders to cancel the trip for fear of ambush, Yamamoto's two Mitsubishi G4M fast transport aircraft left Rabaul as scheduled for the 315 mi (507 km) trip. Sixteen Lightnings intercepted the flight over Bougainville and a dogfight ensued between them and the six escorting Mitsubishi A6M Zeroes. First Lieutenant Rex T. Barber engaged the first of the two Japanese transports which turned out to be Yamamoto's plane. He targeted the aircraft with gunfire until it began to spew smoke from its left engine. Barber turned away to attack the other transport as Yamamoto's plane crashed into the jungle.

      This wasn't fair. America's enemies must be allowed to have a free inviolable base where they can plot the death of Americans. Drone strikes violate the "free base" principle of international law.

    • 4 months ago
  • PressCore
    • +1
      PressCore  
    • fiberbundle:

      http://innocents.be

      I agree in principle, but in the real world, reprisals are the name
      of the game. Admiral Yamamoto masterminded the sneak attack on Pearl
      Harbor on 12/7/1941. They wanted him dead so bad they could have tasted
      his blood in their mouths. We forget that War IS Organized Crime, though with
      rules that are made to be broken. Without meaning to criticize you or find fault
      with your precision grasp of Military History, ( which I admire ), permit me to add
      that the German Luftwaffe targeted a Brittish civilian actor named Lesli Howard
      for their Mob hit because he was very effective in keeping up the morale of
      Brittish people with the movies he stared in. Several German military aircraft
      stalked him until Lesley was traveling in a civilian transport airliner with other innocents.before they shot him down too over the coast of Portugal. War crimes
      happen to military men and women too, but the most heinous & infamous war
      crimes happen to the real innocents of the world's nations. Civilians, especialy
      civilian children.

    • 4 months ago
  • fiberbundle
  • artemis6
  • matka
  • trut
    • +2
      trut  
    • Without a very public hanging these war crimes will go on forever. Obama let Bush/cheney off the hook knowing he was going to do the same if not worse.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
  • Des_Akkari
  • jackhole
  • TanzaniteDiamonds
  • matka
  • TanzaniteDiamonds
  • matka
  • MolliBlum
  • MolliBlum
  • MarshainFlorida
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +3
      MarshainFlorida  
    • MolliBlum:

      The only point of Jack's link is that he think's we're all trying to blame Obama for everything. If I'm right ( which I may well not be ) then apparently he's in favor of the drone strikes. I can't believe that either.

    • 4 months ago
  • jackhole
    • 0
      jackhole  
    • MarshainFlorida:

      Humor----seems odd that you missed the point you're quite sharp.

      But here goes.

      n jack--supports Obama---99% of folks here know this----jack calls Obama Obummer then posts a silly obama link= lots of LOLs!

      But if you really want to know:

      I detest the fact that Obama has not only continued but has built on Bush's wars. In all this time however I have not seen a single plan out there to keep us safe, stabilize the region so they ( whoever we decide to bomb) can forge their way as sovereign nations (hopefully with free elections) and at the same time keep terrorism from spreading. Of course more radicalized ( or the verbose you know fuckers who will nit-pick on any opinion to feel good about themselves) will always claim a super secret eugenic master plan by the government for global dominion---usually something to do with oil.

      The thing is that we as citizens are required to follow our hearts and demand and end to these atrocities but in doing so we must also realize that we are armchair pundits ( sarcasm here) not sitting in the white house acting on surveillance and other intel.

      I love the way the conversation unfolds and how most people bring new info that makes me see the layer upon layer in dealing with these policies. I just hate when I come to a thread and it's all x-files, give me facts not conspiracy theories.

      Example: "The United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights has announced a special inquiry into civilian deaths associated with drone strikes and other forms of targeted killing."

      I also like the number of posts on this thread regarding how this technology can be easily hacked and used against us. Or that anything out there they can end up ( probably will) end up in the wrong hands.

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +1
      MarshainFlorida  
    • jackhole:

      You have to give an old lady a break. The brain ain't what it used to be. I too am very dissilusioned by Obama's conduct in office. His words have definitely belied his deeds. But on his behalf, immediately after taking office he attempted to close GITMO, but that was met with so much backfire, and despite the fact that he had already reduced its population to a mear 140-160 (don't recall exact number), he could not find anyplace that would take the remaining prisoners who are indeed already declared to be not guilty, but still congress will not let them go, nor will they allow them to be moved to high security prisons on the mainland. I'm sorely disappointed in the activities being allowed in the Justice Dept. Way too many to mention, but I'd really like him to open up about that guns to Mexico fiasco. If you've been watching Eric Holder, when he has a news conference he makes his speech and runs out of the room when he's done. No questions are answered but I'm sure the reporters have many. So the "transparent" office appears to be in name only. The dumbest thing the public has done is shot themselves in the foot when they got pissed off at him for caving in to the banks when they asked for a bailout. They needed a bailout like we all need tooth decay. What they needed was downsizing and de-monopolizing. As a result, everyone kicked out their democrat representatives in the House and replaced them with teapartier-republicans. It's been one hell after another. So despite many bills that he has attempted to get, he's only succeeded in a very few, watered-down versions that he's taken rather than to take nothing.

      There's a lot that will be happening in the 2014 election. That's when Michigan will have the opportunity to dump their fascist, lying governor. Let's see if that gets accomplished. But then, there are soooo many democrats who don't even bother going to the polls unless its a presidential election. That's the ignorance of the American democratic voter (those who want to see democracy returned), both democrats and republicans. There are many, many Michigan republican voters who are disgusted with their governor. We'll also see if McConnell and Boehner get to keep their jobs, as well as a number of other teapartiers. If we can make it through 2013, I'm still hopeful that despite the appearances of what Obama has failed to accomplish may see change.

      And all this spying on the American people, compiling all their emails, punishment of non-criminals (whistle blowers, people arrested for selling marijuana in states where it is legal to do so) and start looking at those who have committed real crimes against our country and murdered millions in other countries - Bush, Cheney, and half his cabinet, the joint chiefs - those are the ones the justice dept. should be going after, but obviously they can't because they have unclean hands. The "patriot act" has proven to be the biggest crime against our own country. Any act previously enacted to "protect national security" [Roosevelts imprisoning of the Japanese following the attack on Pearl Harbor, the rounding up of those thought to be Communists during the McCarthy era] lasted only a few years. This friggin "patriot act" established by Bush after 9/11 is still here 11 years later, and I for one not only don't seeing it going away, I see it being built on by government scare tactics. Roosevelt said "there is nothing to fear but fear itself." Well, this government is not adopting that philosophy. Instead, it's keeping the people in a constant state of fear and it keeps building on it with lies, making everything regardless how insignificant, a "matter of national security." How much bullshit is the American people going to swallow? I don't know. Maybe until they get tired of eating it up.

    • 4 months ago
  • jackhole
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +1
      MarshainFlorida  
    • jackhole:

      Thanks. I'm in the process of trying to get a new blog posted that should start giving us a lot more hope, but Current's filters has determined it to be SPAM. I sent you and all my followers an email about it. Did you get it? I complained early today to Feedback, but so far it has not been released.

    • 4 months ago
  • jackhole
  • MarshainFlorida
  • mrpuma2u
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +1
      MarshainFlorida  
    • mrpuma2u:

      There's always the hidden agenda - protecting our oil interests. Geez, I wish we'd stop relying on outside sources for oil and start putting more money into alternative energy sources. How many wars have to be fought, and how many soldiers have to die, to get this country on a more "righteous" path?

    • 4 months ago
  • MarshainFlorida
  • BrushwithDeathToothpaste
    • +6
      BrushwithDeathToothpaste  
    • War is a war crime.

      Get used to less collateral damage and fewer American soldiers being placed at risk in combat. Battlebots are cheaper and they have a much lower emotional commitment for us as a nation.

      It will be quite interesting when the "other side" starts to gain the technology. We may have to take what we have dished out. When unmarked drones driven by local terrorists start mowing down US citizens, it will be a whole new ballgame.

    • 4 months ago
  • mrpuma2u
  • matka
  • matka
  • MarshainFlorida
    • +2
      MarshainFlorida  
    • BrushwithDeathToothpaste:

      That day will be coming sooner than you think. I understand Obama has agreed to sell X number of drones to many in the middle east. And it would not surprise me one bit if Israel turns around and fires a nuclear warhead right at us. Some yahoos in PA were smuggling the plutonium necessary for them to completely build sufficient bombs for all of the middle east and us. It's a very scary world we live in.

    • 4 months ago
  • MSII
    • +2
      MSII  
    • BrushwithDeathToothpaste:

      " When unmarked drones driven by local terrorists start mowing down US citizens, it will be a whole new ballgame."

      Believe it! That day will surely come. I saw where regular people can already buy versions of these things on-line. How long till "terrorists" start doing so and making "modifications", turning them from simple camera-toys into something else...

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
  • MarshainFlorida
  • Wyley_Wombat
    • +1
      Wyley_Wombat  
    • MSII:

      This is indeed true. It has been possible for years to rig explosives in radio controlled model aircraft for a relatively low cost. Now with the introduction of small video cameras one could even cobble up fairly accurate targeting. While it would not be as large as the military UAVs, something with a 3 foot wingspan could carry enough to do more than light damage.

    • 4 months ago
  • matka
    • 0
      matka  
    • MarshainFlorida:

      No problem, Marsha. I posted a lot of his books in your In Praise of the Printed
      Word in a Digital Age webpage. And wot a wenbpage that wuz, eh?
      Wot book did u decide to start on by King? Duma Key, I hope. :)

    • 4 months ago
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