Community | February 05, 2013 | 10 comments

"You lost me at WE" A voluntaryist perspective on the US constitution.

The US constitution was signed by just 39 people over 200 years ago. It was a contract for the people of that time. It is not a contract for the people living today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f9Z7U8MSg8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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10 comments // "You lost me at WE" A voluntaryist perspective on the US constitution.

  • RobertSundstrom
    • +1
      RobertSundstrom  
    • It could not have been valid at that time either, except for those who signed it. You cannot sign a contract for other people. The individuals must themselves sign it and of course be able to break it too. Real contracts in a free and voluntary society are signed voluntarily by people because they think they need to - just like when you would get an voluntary insurance, you think you will be better off with one just in case.

    • 3 months ago
  • oldbanjo
  • RobertSundstrom
    • +1
      RobertSundstrom  
    • oldbanjo:

      You are right that when people vote they sort of consent with what the officials, their "representatives", do. We can in fact blame these people for, for example, supporting the war with their vote by this logic. One can play on their rational ignorance, but hey! Is that honest? But surely they cannot force those who don't vote to do anything. They do not consent. If one supports that then you are immoral even if it is legal. What is legal is not equal to what is moral.

    • 3 months ago
  • oldbanjo
  • RobertSundstrom
    • 0
      RobertSundstrom  
    • oldbanjo:

      Yes, they are required to, forced to, but that does not justify the act of voting; voting for the lesser of evils to make things heaven for you while hell for others at the expenses of everyone.

    • 3 months ago
  • oldbanjo
    • 0
      oldbanjo  
    • RobertSundstrom:

      I know what your saying but how can someone complain when they did not vote. I voted for the sake of my grand kids and your grand kids, I'm retired, have good health Ins and Medicare and am not affected by SS, I never paid in SS and will never draw it, I did pay for Medicare. I could not vote for someone that only helps the rich and f---'s everyone else, a hatchet man. Romney and his family are crooks and are beating paying taxes anyway they can and to think that the Republican Party would want anyone in that family to run for any Office just shocks me. I like guns but the Country is more important to me than my guns. I will not support someone that wants to screw the poor and the Middle Class, the Middle Class makes our systems economy work and without them we will be a third World country paying Minimum Wages to everyone.

    • 3 months ago
  • VoluntaryistRebel
    • 0
      VoluntaryistRebel [removed]  
    • oldbanjo:

      When a the threat of violence or violence itself is committed against a person that did not vote but is acting peacefully they have every right to complain. You as an individual has the right to own what ever you want. You also have the right to voluntarily have interactions with other people. Just because you voted for a party that advocates the use of theft, force and coercion against peaceful people doesn't give that party the right to do any of those things. The real question is do you own yourself? I surely do. Now i have no problem with you voting for a ruler or wanting to be ruled but I do have a problem with your ruler trying to rule me.

    • 3 months ago
  • oldbanjo
    • 0
      oldbanjo  
    • VoluntaryistRebel:

      I'm a little lost on the reasoning could you clarify the act of violence your writing about. Everyone can't live by their own rules, everyone needs to give a little and come up with rules that all can live with. I don't know what State you live in but I'm in SC, I have seen rules being passed in Calif and NY that Would make me move if I did live there.

    • 3 months ago
  • VoluntaryistRebel
    • 0
      VoluntaryistRebel [removed]  
    • oldbanjo:

      I am not advocating that there are not rules. I am advocating that there be no rulers. At least not for me. I never agreed to being ruled. If one wants that then I have no problem with it. As for as act of violence, that state is violent. If you are against guns, how do you think they will take them away? They will send men armed with fully automatic rifles and will forcibly remove said "contraband". Think of it as the same way the Obama administration uses the DEA to raid dispensaries. Owning any kind of property (obviously not other humans) is not a crime and any group of people willing to use overwhelming force to steal said property is using acts of violence.

    • 3 months ago
  • oldbanjo
    • 0
      oldbanjo  
    • VoluntaryistRebel:

      Like when ATF took the 30 toy guns. I own guns and will always own them. Where I live you need a gun and the job of the police is not to protect us, there is no way they will take guns in this State. The people carrying concealed weapons permits are helping the law by keeping the crime rate down in this State, and the police will admit it. The last of my worries is someone taking my guns. If I lived in NY and they made stupid laws I'd give my ammo and guns away (I wouldn't sell them) and move to another State where it would be safer.

    • 3 months ago
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