Well, I never ! First now I find it.......hope it right one.

Bot yoo deserve big hug......I know ya probably did it just to shut me mouth.
HAH-HARTLE

Bot this very important song for this subject.

As a postscript.......too bad no one noticed this yet because it's very apprapo for
this subject/webpage.

What did U think of it, Tanz? McMjurtry has a very powerful message to convey
here, albeit if people are of the 1 per cent Corporate persuasion i.e. RICH, they;ll
think it's just all bullshit. Poor ass mind frames.....they're all askew !

This is a monster thread fer shure. U are referring to 'monster' as in 'large', no?
I would think it's be better to say there are some monsterous comments on it.
Tink !

Get educated and read "Twilight of the American Culture" by Morris Berman.
U don't know it all, U bogala.

And boy, u seem really interested in me. HAHA U will never know what accent
I covet. U not as smart as u tink. Har-tay, AmblyopiaEye_Bill.

"And boy, u seem really interested in me."

Dream on.....young lady.

NOT! And do not lecture me like I am 'young lady.' I'm not young anymore and
U know that. Foolish remark.

I still have song to post to yer 'diploma' for languages and all that twaddle.

It is actually a powerful song/video by James McMurtry, son of Larry McMurtry,
best know for writing Lonesome Dove.

It also relates to the subject of this webpage....... has nuthin' to do with you
or I on Current.

HA ! U be schizophrenic and big tall tale teller. Ya, I am so shoore.

{history has PROVEN socialism a failure }

Yes. Not only a failure, but it brings misery, poverty, tyranny and death.

{ If we could just purge the right-wing "facists" from the face of the earth, socialism would work! }

That is the legacy that the LEFT-WINGERS inherited. They actually believe this. So did Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. But the LEFT-WINGERS will say that they did not "carry out the plan correctly," and that THEIR brand of socialism will work THE NEXT TIME.

They will get it right - THE NEXT TIME.

They will not let people like Stalin and Guevara get in charge and murder people and put them in re-education camps - THE NEXT TIME.

Hey, just give them one more try at it. These LEFT-WINGERS will get it right - THE NEXT TIME.

Some progressives are just blinded by their own dogma, but this guy fully understands what he's doing. Ayn Rand called that "pure evil".

It is part of the heritage of the Progressives. Before, utopian communities isolated themselves and people volunteered. That is fine, give it a try.

But by the end of the 19th century, the Progressives shifted: They wanted the entire society to follow their "dream," and the only way to do that is via the power of a central government.

As the person said, they have a vision for the purification of society. If they convince themselves of that, then they are above morality and can, as Rousseau said, "force men to be free."

However, EXACTLY the same thing about Rand was said by Whittaker Chambers in his review of her works. She believed in the superiority of certain types and thought they were above morality and could create their own. That is just as bad, according to Chambers, as this Ayers guy.

Good one ! And the sordid truth..... :(

No. The free market has given humanity wealth, opportunities, longevity, education, and many conveniences.

Not true. You are on a computer and have abundance in the supermarkets because of the free market.

I'm on a rebuilt computer and it wasn't free. HAR !

That's your opinion, Mishi. Don't start.

It is not my opinion at all, historically and nationally, we have abundance. This is not opinion, it is truth.

It's not free..... we pay into it with taxation and more taxation...... and have programs
swept out from under out feet.... cuts in SS, Medicare/Medicaid, ecetera.

So far perhaps, so far. But everyone knows we're headed toward fallin' off the
freakin' fiscal cliff. Money problems by the kazillions.

And sure, 'abundance' from sea to polluted sea.

{It's not free..... we pay into it with taxation and more taxation...... and have programs
swept out from under out feet.... cuts in SS, Medicare/Medicaid}

Left-wingers want everything for "free," including housing and food. Ya know, the FOOD STAMP PRESIDENT who has increased food stamps. He has already set in stone the increase of WELFARE, even after the recession ends. Obummer and his LEFT-WINGER cronies have eliminated work requirements to be on the government dole. Heck, Left-wingers complained about "residency requirements" for getting WELFARE; they said it "restricts travel." Travel, yeah, on the money of other people.

{But everyone knows we're headed toward fallin' off the
freakin' fiscal cliff. Money problems by the kazillions.}

I was referring to food. Nobody is starving in the US, despite what Left-wingers lie and deceive about. Simply ain't true. Hey, gotta have those cell phones, flat-screen TV, new sneakers and AC. Food? Heck, the gubermant will give me FOOD STAMPS.

Speaking of 'food' -- not to abruptly change the subject, but I'm gonna.....lol.
There's a new webpage that was opened two days ago...."What's The Grossest
Thing You Ever Ate"?
I know it's boring to u if you're not in the right 'mood' and love dem politics,
but how's about comin' over and telling that story of the goat's eyes again or
something similar.

What did you eat when you came down with H-Pylori?

Not true. I don't want free housing, I'm still payin' on a 'bought the farm' mortgage!

And sometimes, by unwanted dire circumstances, an honest individual hits upon
hard times and has to apply for SSD.

Our SS is OUR money, taxed out of the paycheck, then returned as if it were
a 'gift' at IRS , (Income Removal Service) time.

Rage against the Machine. You are so correct and U know it !
Great post. We are no longer a 'Super Power', but a 'Stupid Power.'

you are right on .when was it no longer regulated 1985-1995 i dont know
i think somewhere in the late 80-s.one thing is for sure its outa control

{when was it no longer regulated 1985-1995}

Read history. Massive deregulation started under Carter.

Outta control fer sure. Sorta like bein' on a Tilt-A-Whirl, eh?

"Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (not a "right-winger" organization but a White House office responsible for reviewing costs of regulations) estimated that enforcing these regulations cost $35 BILLION a year for the last 10 years? Hey, $380 BILLION in the last 10 years."

Gross deception! This really is a great example of having correct numbers and using them to support a false conclusion.

It is "BEAN COUNTER-ism" at its worst!

Yes, and you entirely miss the point in typical right winger fashion. The cost of regulation is only half of the picture. It says nothing about "value for money".

The question is not the direct cost of regulation; but whether the regulations were a net benefit after costs, and they clearly were! In "right wingerism" the costs of burning rivers, acid rain, chemically induced cancers, etc. are simply ignored. Only the cost to business is considered.

The fact is, the value produced by these regulations would be cheap at twice the price! Yes, the right, in a desperate attempt to discredit government at every level is now grasping at "BEAN COUNTER-ism".

"BEAN COUNTER-ism" = Knowing the COST of everything and the VALUE of nothing!

Invalid. People die because of government regulations, both directly and indirectly. Medicines cannot get to the market. The airlines mandated separate seats for infants with seat belts.

Result? (Before it was stopped) More deaths.

Why? Because the cost of travel for families went up and they started driving. Traffic fatalities: 14,000. Airline fatalities: 12.

How many babies and parents died from government crap?

It has been estimated that up to 20,000 people died because an anti-ulcer medication did not get on the market for about 10 years, even though it was available in Europe and other countries.

But distort, twist, and lie about what I wrote as you just did. Proclaim that I am against all regulations and do not care if rivers are polluted. You are parroting your professors and Maddow quite well.

Voted up!

More laws, more control, more Big Government tyranny...

"The question is not the direct cost of regulation; but whether the regulations were a net benefit after costs"

How do you know? Has it been quantified that these regulations were a "net benefit"? Just asking.... =)

"Has it been quantified that these regulations were a "net benefit"?"

Yes, I've seen many studies over the years. I could Google them for you; but I charge for the service. :-) But actually, the broad statement I made is not where the argument is.

There really is no serious argument that environmental and safety regulations have had a net benefit; and that's all I was saying. The substantive debate revolves around areas of regulation and what costs you count on the benefit side.

So as to areas of regulation, one can, and many do argue that the endangered species act does not have a "net benefit". The act costs money to be sure; but how do you value the loss of species? That is a value judgment that can not be objectively answered.

Air and water regulations are clearer. To the crowd that still is not sure that smoking causes cancer, there have been no provable savings from the prevention of cancers and breathing disorders. If you accept the scientific consensus, then there can be no debate about the net benefit.

But even that disregards the real value judgment. I just don't want BTX (Benzene, Toluene, Xylene) in my water. And I really don't care what it costs the crony capitalists to keep it out. They have no right to put it there!

Well said!

Truth! Absolutely!

We need less government interference, not more. How can these left-wingers actually claim that the "capitalists" have taken control of the government - meaning the government has colluded with business - and ask for MORE government regulation? Don't these LEFT-WINGERS know how big business welcomes regulation in many cases because it drives out the smaller businesses?

MORE GOVERNMENT !!!

"MORE GOVERNMENT !!!"

I know that is what you advocate. I know.

And wot is that he advocates, Mishi ??

No. Work longer hours and at any job one can get. If one does that, one can save and invest.

Why would u get down-voted for wot u said ? ? Or am I missin' sumethin' here?

IF one can get a freakin' job, sure. Then the rest would follow suit. Where are
the jobs? Especially if one is elder. Castles in the air.

That does not take into account previous responsibility. If people are responsible, they consider the future: They know that anything can happen - their place of work could go bust, there could be a recession, they could get into an accident, and so on. However, many irresponsible people live from paycheck to paycheck, so when something happens, they have nothing on which to fall back.

Then, they ask the rest of the population to bail them out. This is seen with the irresponsible people who could not pay their mortgages. They over-extended themselves and could not make the payments. Then they ask the government to confiscate money from those who were responsible and to pay for their negligence and greed.

With the young, just starting out, it is different. But with people who were adults before this recession, there is no excuse. And there are jobs, or they can get their a$$es in gear and move to where jobs are. Plenty in North Dakota, for example.

Bull-ceephus.

Thanks my friend!

Good insight buddawoman.......I'm sir-prized that Mishima didn't jump on ya like a
duck on a June bug to counter attack your post.

The so-called "rich" pay more than their fair share, and the proof is readily available for anyone who makes the effort to check.

"Loopholes?"

Do you know anyone who deducts mortgage interest? How about deductions for the kid's college expenses? How about deductions for children or a spouse or other dependents? Know anyone who does that? How about deductions for property taxes?

OK, close those "loopholes" and see what happens to the middle class.

OH, but Left-wingers only want to take these putative "loopholes" from the EVIL RICH. So, have to pay on capital gains, right? The EVIL RICH sometimes live off stock profits.

Wait! Tens of millions of middle-class retired people live off that.

But tax the corporations.

Wait! American corporations have the unique distinction of being the HIGHEST TAXED IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Hmmmmm.....

Comically untrue. The effective tax rate for U.S. Corporations is ridiculously low! I'm sure Rachel has some great links on the topic on her site! She's a beacon of truth you know!

The United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. This CANNOT be denied. It can be found at any valid site. I was going to ignore this because it is unreasonable and it is simply a myth, but I do not like to see LIES posted without a riposte.

If the taxes collected are measured by the % of GDP, the US is about in the middle of the pack compared to the countries of the EU. But the effective rate is the highest. This is not from FOX but from OECD! It cannot be denied!

Wrong. The rich in America, according to international agencies over a period of 10 years, actually pay more than most of their European counterparts in taxes!

With income tax, as a measure of GDP, American fall within the middle of the European spectrum.

If we look at the "progressivity" of our taxes, we are higher than most, and higher than the Nordic countries, again, in terms of amount paid in relation to GDP.

In 2007, the richest 10% of Americans paid A LARGER SHARE of total taxes than ANY OTHER European counterpart!

Europeans have more "regressive taxes" that America does not. These are consumption taxes. Any high school student who has looked into the very basic economics knows that consumption taxes are the most regressive, hitting the middle and lower classes the most. In addition, the American poor are exempted from most taxes with their benefits, while the Europeans pay up.

Property taxes are higher in America than in all but 3 European countries, and Americans own property more than people in most European countries.

Corporate taxes, as a measure of GDP, are higher than any European country if measured by their "effective rate."

This one time, and never again, will I provide the SOURCE. I know you will deny them, but I will save them for future reference and maybe there are people who will want to know these facts obtained from international, non-partisan sources that any reasonable person will accept.

SOURCE:
OECD in Figures 2007, Public Finance, Taxation. Tax Structures, pages 58 and 59.

Well he sounds like the poster child for the right-wingers view of how things should be (and will if they get their way and turn us back into a neo-feudalist corporate-FASCISM). We're all just peasant-serfs to the holy-1%-er-masters.

Good post and truly true. I saw the 'Slinkies' quote on Twitter on a Great Cynical Quotes webpage.

I know....... I love Brule'. Wuz turned onto them by my N.A. Menomonee/Chippewa
friend, Crowe.

Chirapau is another mind blowing group......... I used to play their song, ' Sacred
Medicine, Powerful Pride' over and over last summer to get torked up. They
sing in their native tongue and it's like mezmermizing. Those drums ! The
whole arrangemement should be award winning.

So u have some N.A, blood lines - - das cool ! Never knew dat..... course,
ya never toles me..... chortle ..... I know, u just did.

Ever hear of Buffy St. Marie.......she's produced some exco songs.... 'Codeine'
(pronouced 'co-dine' on her song), or ' Now That the Buffalo's Gone ' .

And - ee-ew on rotten ass dad, bogus Bing or psycho Marilyn Manson.
(my personal opinion) ..... there are too many other actual 'music' selections
to glom over.

P. S. That would go under heading of " Regress." LOL

Unfamiliar with, but pleasant and foot tappin'.

At first, I thought I saw "Stone Ponies", bot dat wuz so olda a music, I didn't
think u would've gone there. Then the album came into focus, and my eyes,
(that felt like peeled grapes last night) recognized the name of these dudes.

What genre' are they under? I like em.

I wuz thinkin' more along the gross lines of 'kicking poo around'......or if ya love
Teddy Bears, ' kicking Pooh around'.
I shouldn't do this, becuz it could be taken as discriminatory or disrespectful.
Irregardless, u didn't answer me about what genre' the Bone Pony woud be
listed under ( or as).

Any 'hippie' is just alright wif me. I used to be young hippie, now I old hippie. lol

If one be codger, you'd be toe-tappin' 'steada foot stompin', cuz some old

bones in 'kelekin can't take that no moe'. har-tee :)

Your right Buckeye. He does sound like our Kickapoo. Oh My, that's scary, Could it be him roaming around Current? I must check. lol.

The Rivingtons version is the best.

I really LIKE that !

Thanx artemis 6.

{This is the contradiction we all have to live to survive. So many of us have to deal with the devil just in order to pay the piper.}

What "devil?" Do you think that this "devil" is in control of you?

Asking people to make the very small effort to get photo IDs is not asking much at all, of course. I suppose the Left-wingers would want the government to bring voting machines to people's homes.....

{I use my computer for my banking, purchasing and many other ways so why not vote with it, too?}

Right! The GOVERNMENT should not only provide cell phones as a "right" for the poor, but if they do not want to leave their homes, the GOVERNMENT should buy computers for them.

This is typical of the Left: A never-ending series of demands. The Left can be defined, in part, by these three words: "WE DEMAND MORE."

Those who would not make the effort to get a photo ID, which is provided for FREE, should not be voting. This is common sense.

Too bad you think that a political party stands 100% for beliefs. Human nature, society and politics are far more complicated. It is unfortunate that you do not expand your thinking. I suspect it is from television.