Conspiracy watch: were the Dark Ages faked?
source: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/conspiracy-watch-were-dark-ages-faked
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- pjacobs51
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THE CONSPIRACY THEORY: No wonder the Dark Ages were so dark—they didn't really exist. The years between 614 and 911 never happened, yet due to some suspicious mathematical manipulation, they have been included in the Western calendar. To cover up the time shift, three centuries of fictional events and nonexistent figures like Charlemagne have been squeezed into the historical record. Reset your watches: We're actually living in the early 1700s.
THE THEORISTS: The idea of "phantom time" was first proposed in 1991 by a German historian named Heribert Illig and his colleagues. They claim that unexplained gaps in the archeological and documentary record confirm their hypothesis. So how did 297 empty years suddenly appear? The prime suspect is Holy Roman Emperor Otto III, who is commonly thought to have lived around 1000. Not so, say Illig and Co.: He actually lived around 700 but wished he lived at the time of the first millennium, so with the help of Pope Sylvester II, he added 300 years to the date. To help cover his tracks, he invented a convincing story about an eighth-century Frankish emperor named Charlemagne.
MEANWHILE, BACK ON EARTH: Needless to say, historians aren't convinced that a large chunk of the Middle Ages were faked. But if it's true, can I get a partial refund for that monster European History book I had to read in high school?
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- groups:
- Community, Comedy, WTF, Current Tonight, 10 more
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- tags:
- WTF, History, Time, Conspiracy Theories, 3 more
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IronLionZion
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to anyone interested in this and wants further reading, check out Anatoly Fomenko's History : Science or Fiction series of books, they are difficult to read since their is a footnote on every other sentence but its fun to delve into.
- 2 years ago
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IronLionZion
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interditx
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I think it means we haven't been born yet?
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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brit50
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In my opinion, this is complete nonsense. There is a conspiracy for everything.
- 2 years ago
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brit50
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funnicus [removed]
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ANTI-SEMITE!!! BIGOT!!!! Oh wait, that's only for people who question any detail about the alleged "holocaust".
"never mind" - Roseanne Roseanna Danna
- 2 years ago
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funnicus [removed]
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DJMatt2
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Oh I am DEFINITELY going to bring this up on my radio show at ShockNet Radio on Friday!
- 2 years ago
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DJMatt2
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kingfugazi
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I believe this is the jist of what happen during the American Revolution... We won? And since we WON we get all the rights in the Constitution right? So its rumored, so prove it... I mean serious, there's a movement to rewrite the Bible to be less compassionate and more money orientated. Like American history is sacred or off limits? We either awaken our inner self to rise above a sh!tty life condition with which we are but debris in the winds or we shuffle from one call for freedom to the next. Society as we know it failing, only humanity can make the transformation one of value. Wait till we find out that slavery is the currency of international business today: who needs gold when you have human energy- the only true value in any economy.
- 2 years ago
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kingfugazi
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netstorm2k8
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Oh no! This means... I don't exist! AHHHHhhhh...
- 2 years ago
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netstorm2k8
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Null81
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For the sake of argument lets say this was fabricated, now who the hell cares? Does it effect your life? Does it mess you up? Does it make it so you cannot function? No, its just something else to ruffle everyone's feathers about, not a big deal.
- 2 years ago
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Null81
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PajamaDan
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I've always pondered this. How long does it take before widely-agreed-upon history becomes myth or raises doubt or is debunked as false??!!??!! After so much time,... we no longer have proof, we have hearsay, faith, opinion or lies.
Who was behind 911? Who killed JFK? Who wrote the Shakespeare plays? So,... in 500 years,... will surviving humans believe that Superman was real and was a demi-god?! - 2 years ago
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PajamaDan
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rickm8
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A little bit far off, but get some objective proven evidence and I'll check it out!
- 2 years ago
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rickm8
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blood77
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This is just too much.
- 2 years ago
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blood77
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Monicboom
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That sounds interesting, but don't they have physical evidence that Charlemagne did exist? I understand this hypothesis, but how would they get everyone to take part and pass stories down given the fact that most people were ignorant back then? There are a lot of questions and loops to answer? Although I am open to the possibility, we just need more proof! :-D
- 2 years ago
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Monicboom
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MoonLoon
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Monicboom:
Off course he existed. Can't you see the painting?
- 2 years ago
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MoonLoon
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remanns
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If I cant have Charlemagne,...you can just KEEP your DAMN HISTORY! stomp-stomp-stomp-stomp-stomp-out-n-gone! p.s---I really love this.
- 2 years ago
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remanns
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Ya_Yletayo
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Im sure you could compare some other civilization's calendar marked interactions with europeans and figure it out quite quickly...Jewish Calendar perhaps? Chinese? Whatever the Arab world was using at this time?
- 2 years ago
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Ya_Yletayo
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naty_forty
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The idea of this is a little bizarre for me. I don't even know what to think about it, whether it's just blah or should I give it a few more seconds of contemplative thought and maybe some looking into...
- 2 years ago
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naty_forty
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Twistisking
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naty_forty:
I would be more concerned about the current situation than the ramblings of this article. but that is just me
- 2 years ago
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Twistisking
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naty_forty
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naty_forty:
True, I don't give it much credit either way. It's just bizarre. But I agree, there are much pressing matters.
- 2 years ago
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naty_forty
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Twistisking
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retarded theory but to each their own...
- 2 years ago
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Twistisking
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caverat101
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Twistisking:
why are you so quick to dismiss?
- 2 years ago
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caverat101
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Twistisking
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Twistisking:
Why are you so quick to agree.... 0_o There is no factual information to back up this theory that dimiss hundreds of years of the common believe. Just because some one states some off the wall conspiracy theory, doesn't mean I have to believe in it. I live in the Bay Area, and I hear crazy shit like this every day. It needs more substance to tickle my fancy
- 2 years ago
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Twistisking
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caverat101
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TIME IS IRRELEVANT einstein proved that time is traveling at different speeds for every atom in the universe so to think that it's one year or another, it just doesnt matter
- 2 years ago
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caverat101
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vladbox
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What difference does it make?
- 2 years ago
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vladbox
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Mark701
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This is riduculous. Everyone knows aliens induced mass amnesia and caused the Dark Ages to disappear.
- 2 years ago
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Mark701
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netstorm2k8
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Mark701:
I thought it was ridonkulus?
- 2 years ago
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netstorm2k8
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netstorm2k8
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Well, since the past only exists in our memories, who's to say this all didn't start just a moment ago, with all the 'natural evidence' only a set provided by someone with an easy grasp of energy to mass conversion?
The answer is 42. Why?
- 2 years ago
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netstorm2k8
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caverat101
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netstorm2k8:
because we don't know the question
- 2 years ago
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caverat101
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remanns
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netstorm2k8:
O stop that!
- 2 years ago
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remanns
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DeliaTheArtist
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netstorm2k8:
Because Douglas Adams says so?
- 2 years ago
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DeliaTheArtist
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MotherForTruth
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History is written and re-written all the time. The facts in history books change as with current political views in mind.
- 2 years ago
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MotherForTruth
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bailey78
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Ok who passed out the LSD and didn't give me any? This is just plain ol stupid. What are we going to do turn back the Time machine. Who cares all the old farts way back when Lied to the people about all kinds of things. like the earth is flat. that we are the center of the universe or wait for it. There is a all seeing all hearing all knowing being and if you don't do as he says he will put you in a place called Hell to burn for ever. I don't care what happen over a thousand years ago. Hell I don't care what happen five hundred years ago. It has no effect on my life today. We are only here for the blink of an eye. then poof we are just dust or worm food. so what if some king desided he wanted to skip a few years and move the date up a couple of hundred years. What does that have to do with the price of rice today? If ya'll want to argue about something make it something worth wild not what happen over a thousand years ago. Ya'll are worst that a bunch of school kids fighting over who gets the fat kid in a basket ball game. History is not perfect. Someone is all ways going to lie. Hell look at what Bush did to us and in fifty years it will be taught that He save the world from all that was wrong with it and we know thats bullshit right? Even some of todays history books leave out Important events. Thats just the way things go.
- 2 years ago
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bailey78
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MoonLoon
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bailey78:
I do not think that Charles Barkley would appreciate the fat kid comment.
- 2 years ago
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MoonLoon
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MoonLoon
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bailey78:
"Bailey", of course you know that was a, "tongue in cheek comment". Current unfortunately has no "emoticans" to allow for humor, sarcasm, or other human emotions.
- 2 years ago
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MoonLoon
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bailey78
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bailey78:
I got it i'm a little Duh! some times sorry. I was with out My normal meds and was not myself I get it now though. I foud my normal meds and what a differnce It makes.
- 2 years ago
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bailey78
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asherp
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Actually it's the year 5770.
Can I get an אָמֵ?All the Jews in the house say "what!"
- 2 years ago
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asherp
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Sarithz
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Well, I guess this is good news for those who also beleive the world ends in 2012, lol.
- 2 years ago
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Sarithz
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javier_ramos
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cool! I always wanted to live in the 1700's..dream come true
- 2 years ago
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javier_ramos
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J_Jammer [removed]
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Historians make history more so than history itself. Carbon Dating be damned.
- 2 years ago
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J_Jammer [removed]
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MoonLoon
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"Lolit", touched briefly on the point of time being a matter of perspective, and a "pesky illusion". As time is affected by velocity, we must assume that time is not a fixed constant, but an attempt by humans to define the undefinable.
I am not a scientist, however, there are many bright members on Current, that I welcome to comment on this issue. - 2 years ago
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MoonLoon
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skiersam10
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This is crazy! But what will happen if its fake? Will we really have to say that were living in the 1700s?
- 2 years ago
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skiersam10
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bombastinator
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Personally i think my Denver cellphone costume conspiracy idea is more believable,
http://current.com/items/91114636_denver-women-prefer-cell-phone-over-sex.htm - 2 years ago
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bombastinator
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atainder
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I have to say.. either way, I really don't care.
- 2 years ago
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atainder
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hack26
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No wonder so many people speak Spanish around here, I'm living in a Spanish colony (Florida).
- 2 years ago
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hack26
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bailey78
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hack26:
Damn thats a good one
- 2 years ago
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bailey78
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royulery
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i think this is easily checked by looking as the histories of; japan, china or persia.
- 2 years ago
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royulery
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fireater
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Oh man, no wonder Y2K wasn't an issue! It hasn't happened yet!
On a similar note, now all these kids fighting with foam swords in the park look like geniuses. They are learning serious life skills! - 2 years ago
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fireater
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Einsam_Data_Old [removed]
- This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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Einsam_Data_Old [removed]
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caverat101
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Einsam_Data_Old:
why are you so quick to doupt?
- 2 years ago
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caverat101
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interditx
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Does everyone get a cannon or two?
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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sk0j0
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Interesting. Now I can finally get my boyfriend off of the whole 2012 nonsense.
- 2 years ago
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sk0j0
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redking555
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party like it's 1709 baybay!!!
- 2 years ago
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redking555
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interditx
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It isn't shocking because someone dumb does something stupid every day, this is just another excuse.... off to the Guillotine with them, oh wait did that happen?
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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netstorm2k8
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Someone dumb is going to do something stupid because of this.
- 2 years ago
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netstorm2k8
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interditx
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If were in the 1700s all the plagues, famine and war is normal. but imagine the things will be doing in 2000.
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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fdsooner
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Impossible-
How could I be using this iPhone if we are in the 1700's? - 2 years ago
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fdsooner
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redking555
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fdsooner:
okay here is what you do-turn your phone one airplane mode-then go to clock settings and change the year to 1709. NOW YOURE USING YOUR IPHONE IN 1700's TIME!!
- 2 years ago
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redking555
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interditx
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What's sad if it's true is the French never won a war or had a real role model before Napoleon, I think this makes up Joan of Arc's time too?
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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Submersible
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It's delusional to believe that a clock can tell you anything about where you are at a specific moment in life. Just because most of the world has to live their lives according to where the numbers are line up at, doesn't mean it's something real.
It probably starting getting used as a measuring stick when somebody figured out how to keep all of their slaves moving around at certain times and working full shifts.
It's always been about the grind. - 2 years ago
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Submersible
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AndrewH13
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This is pretty neat. Not sure of it's accuracy, but pretty neat.
- 2 years ago
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AndrewH13
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mcjk
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And there is a government branch called "Men in Black" too.
- 2 years ago
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mcjk
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Hunnter
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mcjk:
There actually is, just not called Men In Black, and don't regularly talk with aliens and try to protect them in normal society.
They are more commonly known as "the cleanup team".It is a well known fact that governments have these "secret" agencies for things like UFOs and any other extraterrestrial goings-on. (i love leaks
- 2 years ago
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Hunnter
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cynker
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mcjk:
i dont know about that but its silly to think governments dont have levels of security above the visible ones
- 2 years ago
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cynker
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joshcraig
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hey has anybody read fingerprints of the gods
- 2 years ago
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joshcraig
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redking555
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joshcraig:
you cant read a fingerprint-it's rare enough for them to make a coherent shape much less a whole word
- 2 years ago
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redking555
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patriotaxe
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joshcraig:
Impossible. Gods wore gloves when committing crimes.
- 2 years ago
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patriotaxe
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lookatmypix
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Can the Maya calendar prove this to be correct?
- 2 years ago
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lookatmypix
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AndrewH13
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lookatmypix:
I hope so. Since that's obviously the only truly accurate one. haha.
- 2 years ago
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AndrewH13
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Betico
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lookatmypix:
lol, if they're so good at predicting events, how come they couldnt predict their own extinction?
- 2 years ago
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Betico
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lookatmypix
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lookatmypix:
To Betico:
We do not know if they actually predict their own extinction.
There are so many mysteries around this civilization.
One theory supposes they were aliens and suddenly left our planet. - 2 years ago
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lookatmypix
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redking555
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lookatmypix:
they didnt get extinct they blasted off into space with the aliens who geneticaly engeneered them! Just like indiana jones
- 2 years ago
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redking555
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interditx
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lookatmypix:
Maybe they did a Jim Jones thing and who ever was left ran off into the jungles?
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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interditx
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Can you imagine the havoc schools would have with this not to mention book publishers, But whats funny is we would know we don't have to worry about Y2K.
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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Mobius2012
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This is Bullshit
- 2 years ago
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Mobius2012
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lookatmypix
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The 2012 will be 1715?
I guess then, we have to wait 297 more years to see the spiritual or physical end of the world :)
- 2 years ago
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lookatmypix
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kennymotown
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Man that is some pretty deep shit!
- 2 years ago
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kennymotown
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bombastinator
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kennymotown:
shit being the operative word, but I take your point.
- 2 years ago
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bombastinator
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interditx
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So this is actually telling us this is not 2009 but 1706? Is that what they want us to believe.
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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lookatmypix
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interditx:
Actually following this, 2003 is supposed to be 1706, 2009 is supposed to be 1712.
- 2 years ago
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lookatmypix
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interditx
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interditx:
Subtraction was off, not to say their right. I like to see how they came up with this 297 yrs. how do they come up with this stuff there must be a Government Grant for these studies.
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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FrankyFourFingers
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Cue the twilight zone music!
- 2 years ago
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FrankyFourFingers
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gh15hidalgo
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just the title was surprising but then reading it just blow my mind
- 2 years ago
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gh15hidalgo
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MissMeliss
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this is really amusing to me considering that Charlemagne is an ancestor of mine and i've done countless reports on the guy.
- 2 years ago
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MissMeliss
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss:
so you have been led to believe ......?......
- 2 years ago
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss
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MissMeliss:
lol, sorry i suppose i wasn't as clear as i thought. he's real. he had a personal scribe follow him around and document him so that's why we have so much information especially on him. and the 300yrs arent much of a gap at all if you look at french history. the kings are well documented as most kings are. of course i do believe that some information was fabricated to make him seem super crazy awesome but the general historics such as him uniting europe under franc rule and so forth.
- 2 years ago
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MissMeliss
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss:
sorry i didn't realize you had met him.
- 2 years ago
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss
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MissMeliss:
it's ok, i'm a forgiving person.
- 2 years ago
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MissMeliss
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Mobius2012
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MissMeliss:
''To cover up the time shift, three centuries of fictional events and nonexistent figures like Charlemagne have been squeezed into the historical record.'' maybe you didn't catch this part of the article....so this is what you based your reports on three centuries of fictional events LOL, no wonder you're so convinced....
- 2 years ago
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Mobius2012
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss:
the Burger King is my dad. And at least i have actual photos and video to prove he is real. I mean come on, if you are gonna claim to be a relative of some silly king, tell your lying grandparents to pick a real one next time. like King Friday or the just and true King Kong. How convenient..
- 2 years ago
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss
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MissMeliss:
lol, why would i make up something as random as this?!
i could easily get you court documents that prove the linage but honestly it would be a waste of time to prove myself to you.
- 2 years ago
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MissMeliss
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thelastwheeler
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MissMeliss:
Sorry i was just having a bit of fun. But,BUT,.......but what if? what if ........what if, one lie led to another and those lies led to a little girl, writing a report, and then to a very long run on sentence.?? Just....just...shhhhh..what if?
- 2 years ago
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thelastwheeler
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interditx
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MissMeliss:
HaHa... Obama tells the same story and never proves it.
- 2 years ago
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interditx
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MissMeliss
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MissMeliss:
now you know my secret weakness... run on sentences.
- 2 years ago
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MissMeliss
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derk
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MissMeliss:
I think we re related ... I am actually a Pippin, but I was certainly happy to find out Pepins made it to Ireland to change their name (and party a little, of course ... ) before coming all the way to America.
Cheers!
- 2 years ago
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derk
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HiSchoolisBoring
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MissMeliss:
hold on, im more interested on the fact that you say that you are related to him? thats very interesting. how do you know?
- 2 years ago
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HiSchoolisBoring
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TheCopperQueen
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MissMeliss:
Same here. Apparently all of our research has been false XD
- 2 years ago
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TheCopperQueen
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MissMeliss
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MissMeliss:
genealogy. my great, great, great, great grandfather got it verified years ago by the french government before moving to the america's. i suppose it's just all about keeping track of the family tree. and having the last name 'martel' can get a man kinda interested in relatives i suppose. it's not like if your ancestors were related to a king they'd be willing to forget about it, ya know?
and with that, i declare war on the british!
- 2 years ago
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MissMeliss
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James_Ranton
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MissMeliss:
First off, if the dark ages were manufactured, then all evidence you have to prove the claim that you are related to Charlemagne, is also manufactured, and so just proves that you've been tricked like everyone else on earth.
Secondly, if the dark ages did actually take place and Charlemagne did exist, then it is a mathematically inevitability that you are indeed a relative of Charlemagne, as well as everyone else in the world. You see, we each have two parents, four grandparents, eight great grandparents, etc. and so going back to the 13th centuary, you would have more relatives than there have been human beings on the planet (around 80 billion), thus these ancestors must be shared, and so it turns out that I am related to Charlemagne, Mobius2012 is related to Charlemagne, everyone ever in existance is related to Charlemagne.
So, you're either mislead, and just like everyone else, or just like everyone else with delusions of significance.
Good day.
- 2 years ago
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James_Ranton
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BoomChaka
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two words--- carbon dating
- 2 years ago
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BoomChaka
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Guyatthebusstation
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BoomChaka:
/thread
- 2 years ago
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Guyatthebusstation
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Saladin
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BoomChaka:
Exactly, total conspiracy bullshit.
- 2 years ago
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Saladin
