The Prince of Persia, Ya know that white guy...

How is Naveen Andrews a more "accurate" actor for the part?
He is not Middle Eastern; both his parents are from India...

You see how race doesn't really matter?

In Russia, it is their accent which betrays their Caucasus origin, not their skin colour.

Persians ARE white, and among my Iranian (Persian) friends, some have blue eyes, some have green eyes, some have grey eyes, and most have hazel or brown eyes.

The idea that BECAUSE someone is racially profile 'proves' that he/she is 'black' is STUPID, fallacious and wrong.

I repeat: 'Persians' are caucasians and caucasions are --by definition --WHITE! PERIOD.

Citiing 'profiling' as evidence to the contrary is blatantly fallacious and, in an empircal sense, simply UNTRUE!

i repeat fo the slow witted: PERSIANS i.e, Iranians are WHITE.

Live with it!

A person can be Caucasian and still not be white. Caucasian simply refers to someone of the Caucasus region which includes Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India. Part of the definition of Caucasian is "Of or being a human racial classification distinguished especially by very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair." So yes, Persians are certainly Caucasian, but they are not considered "white".

So I reiterate, stop your bitching and to quote you lenhart - LIVE WITH IT

Ienhart,

Race does exist, and you're right, it has little to do with DNA, but it is very real. It is invented by society. And it affects everyone.

My point with racial profiling is relevant to what we're talking about, which is this: Persians may identify with being White, but the reality is that in the American consciousness (as racist as it is) they are not White, especially after 911. Let me be clear, White, as I'm discussing it, is a social construct, and it does not mean one group is superior to another in any way. Let me explain-

A friend of mine is Persian, and she does not consider herself White. Her father experienced racism when he first came to the US 40 years ago, and again after 911.
The type of violence and hate against Persians and Arabs, although they are considered White by the US census and geographic boarders, is said to be racially motivated or racial hate crimes by the US media and by US racial hate crime laws. This shows that many White Americans of European Ancestry do not consider Persians to be White.

Now, as you said, just because Persians are profiled as non-White does not necessarily mean they are non-White. After all, how can one person assign a racial identity to another person? On the other hand, assigning yourself a racial identity is not as easy as simply identifying with that race. For example, I have another friend who's mother is Japanese and who's father is Irish. She identifies much more with her Japanese side, and she looks more Japanese than Irish. But when she goes to Japan, she is not considered Japanese, she is a Gaijin, a foreigner.

Calling Persians White in America is complicated. If you have Persian friends who identify with being White, I certainly can't tell them they are wrong. But the reality is that most Americans do not consider Persians to be White. I also know a family of Persians who do not consider themselves White. In my personal opinion, a person is whatever they identify with and whatever culture they embody.

It's called acting for a reason.

It's not called Specifics.

You complained that a white actor played the role of a Persian - I pointed out that Persians are white.

Re: "Re: " Yes, that's why I wrote "Millions of Jews died in the Holocaust." Can you point out where I wrote that Hitler persecuted Persians?"

I didn't say that you said that Hitler persecuted Persians. Persians are WHITE.

Secondly, Hitler persecuted JEWS because they were not, he said, Aryans.

Persians are WHITE and, moreover, they are 'ARYANS', in fact, caucasians, a synonym for 'white'.

There is, moreover, that Hitler never singled out PERSIANS for persecution.

Moreover, the argument put forward was that BECAUSE Hitler persecuted Jews they must not be 'white'. That's BOGUS, FALLACIOUS and, if it is repeatedly with the intention to decive, it is a lie. Secondly, the word JEW does not even CONNOTE RACE! Many non-white people are Jews just as many whites ARE!

You --by your own admission --wrote " millions of Jews died in the holocaust".

Millions of jews died in the Holocaust because Hitler was bigoted and ignorant, as ignorant with regard to racial matters as some who post on this thread!

Certainly --nothing you have said proves that Persians are NOT WHITE.

Secondly and finally JEWS have nothing to do with this thread! "Jew" does not relate to 'race' ----white, black, yetlow --in any way whatsoever!. As I pointed out: Sammy Davis Jr was a black man but he was also a JEW!

Ienhart,

You are very confused. So confused, in fact, that you responded to the wrong post! I'm guessing you're talking to me since you quoted me.

You're ignoring a very important point that hurts your claim that Persians are white. If Persians are white, can you explain to me how the racial profiling of Persians exists in America? How can hate crimes against Persians exist if they are indeed white? If a white person assaults a person of Persian decent while yelling racial slurs against Persians, we call that a racially motivated hate crime. Plenty of those happened right after 911. How can you explain that, if Persians are considered white?

RE: "You are very confused. So confused, in fact, that you responded to the wrong post! I'm guessing you're talking to me since you quoted me. "

I always put what I am replying to ON TOP in quotes.

Frankly, I don't give a CRAP who I am replying to....I am just trying to set the frickin' record straight.

Persians are NOT non-white. They are white, in fact, Aryans.

Hitlers holocaust is irrelevant and even Hitler did NOT claim that Jews were not 'white'.

And white guys can play Persians in films if they get the part.

Got it?

Now --IRANIANS walk upright, use language, form family groups, live in villages, towns and cities and use tools. Roughly --that makes them human beings and that's all that counts.

Re: " Racial profiling and hate crimes against Persians are committed by white people. How can Persians be white if this happens. ^You're ignoring this too^"

So what?

Because Iranians (Persians) are PROFILED by someone for whatever reason DOES NOT change what Persians (Iranians) are --in fact!

Listen up: i don't care that the are profiled for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. Hitler profiled folk for a panoply of dubious and bigoted reasons. It does not address the point. It is IRRELEVANT !

Aryan = white. Hitler called Jews non-Aryan. Therefore, Hitler called Jews non-white.
^You're ignoring this^

Racial profiling and hate crimes against Persians are committed by white people. How can Persians be white if this happens.
^You're ignoring this too^

Debating with you about this is pointless, since you are dodging all my key points, which shows you either don't know how to argue or you know you're wrong.

All Europeans are Caucasians. The Russian skinheads attack all the non-Slavs - Slavs are also white, as are all the Caucasians.

http://www.slovio.com/slavic-gene/R1a_map.JPG

Again, what you're saying makes no sense.

If Aryan = White like you say, then Hitler calling Jews non-Aryan = Hitler calling Jews non-White. You cannot be non-Aryan but still be White.

Of course one can be non-Aryan and still be white - but your statement actually confirmed that Persians are white!

Re: " If Aryan = White like you say, then Hitler calling Jews non-Aryan = Hitler calling Jews non-White. You cannot be non-Aryan but still be White."

Hitler said that Jews were were Non-Aryan. He did NOT claim that they were black or negroid.

Moreover, what Hitler called 'non-Aryans' is irrelevant. It proves absolutely nothing.

Secondly --who CARES what Hitler thought. Hitler was full of prejudice and mis-information and --tragically --he acted upon it. NO INTELLIGENT person has ever cited Hitler as an AUTHORITY on racial matters. Hitler is NOT cited by socialists or anthropologists on matter having to do with either race or ethnicity except, perhaps, as an oddity or example to show the consequences of being wrong about everything having to do with race or ethnicity.

A great many Persiand (Iranians) were not profiled at airports, and a great many non-Persians but Europeans were profiled as they were taken for being Iranian. Iranians are white, full stop.

V you’re not American and I seriously doubt (based in part on your lack of evidence) that you can make an accurate on the spot comparison of profiling by airport security for Persians and Europeans. At any rate Flyingkick is absolutely right. You’re not an American V so stop acting like you understand everything about American culture.

Americans by and large do not consider Persians to be “white.” It doesn’t matter whether or not they are. This is a discussion of a social construct within the US. Your point simply put is useless because a social construct is an agreed upon perception and not a fact or absolute based on reality. Again by and large the US does not consider Persians to be white.

Sweet Jesus this is a retarded argument.

Ricky - what a gynormous non-sequitur! Your argument fails completely, and the retarded elements in this argument stem from you and those others who come across as ignorant as you.

LOL, oh yes in a discussion of American perceptions you reference airport security protocol yet somehow my argument is non-sequitur.

“Your argument fails completely”

Well in my defense at least I actually have something of an argument. You an Len have completely failed to grasp the concept of a perception since you insistently argued against the obviously well established American perspective of what constitutes white(ness?) Seriously are you even aware of the article in question or the rest of the discussion outside this thread?

Americans do not consider Persians to be white, hence Jake whatever playing a Persian is being discussed!

“and the retarded elements in this argument stem from you and those others who come across as ignorant as you.”

You’re right V if anyone is retarded it would be me because for some odd reason I love to poke bat-shit crazy with sound logic.

So, people with white skin, brown eyes and dark hair are not considered to be white in America? Since when?

Sweetie pie, you wouldn't know sound logic if it gave you a half-hour long French kiss!

Hitler persecuted JEWS ---not Persians! His confused ideas about Aryans are irrelevant.

Persians are WHITE and -in fact --Aryans!

BIGOTS are more concerned with Hitler's opinions than am I. Moreover, HITLER'S persecution of anyone for WHATEVER reason PROVES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It DOES NOT prove that Jews are anything but white. And Hitler is not cited in scientific papers as an authority on race or ethnicity. When he is citied, he is most often roundly denounced. Hitler's opinion is of no importance on this issue one way or the other.

Secondly, Hitler himself NEVER claimed that Jews were not white. He said that they were NON-ARYAN. In fact, it is quite possible to be both JEWISH and ARYAN.

At last --being Jewish is NOT a race, Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years. Sammy Davis, Jr was a BLACK MAN but he was a JEW!

A word of advice to everyone ---look up stuff before posting nonsense, wasting everyone's time.”

"LOL, oh yes in a discussion of American perceptions you reference airport security protocol yet somehow my argument is non-sequitur. Your argument fails completely”"

I am an American --a Native Texan, in fact --and, as a white, anglo-saxon with native american ancestry, you are flat wrong you are full of it. You writing style is pretentious and overblown.

"Well in my defense at least I actually have something of an argument."

You don't have a FACT, let alone an argument. LOL LOL LOL How old are you? Twenty? or Twelve?

"... You an Len have completely failed to grasp the concept of a perception since you insistently argued against the obviously well established American perspective of what constitutes white(ness?)"

I will ignore the sophomic ad hominem. I got a really, really good tan on several occasions. Does that mean I became a BLACK MAN by U.S. standards?? I suggest you take an elementary anthropology course before you embarrass yourself again.

I got a really, really bad SUN BURN on other occasions! Does that mean I became an APACHE?

Once I had a really, really bad case of jaundice. Does that mean I was a CHINAMAN for a few weeks?

"Seriously are you even aware of the article in question or the rest of the discussion outside this thread? Americans do not consider Persians to be white, hence Jake whatever playing a Persian is being discussed!"

What the majority of Americans consider to be 'Persian' or 'white' is of little interest to me. the MAJORITY of Americans are wrong about any number of matters than are not matters of opinion but of scientific, verifiable fact. So what? For example, if I wish to know the distance from the earth to the sun, I DO NOT consult an opinion poll. I asked a reputable scientist and measure his response against a proven methodology.

"and the retarded elements in this argument stem from you and those others who come across as ignorant as you.” You’re right V if anyone is retarded it would be me because for some odd reason I love to poke bat-shit crazy with sound logic."

No one gives a shit about race but bigots! Now --Persians are NOT black nor are they NEGROID. Persians are white. I have had many Iranian friends. Some of them had lighter complexions than mine. By any definition recognized by professional sociologists, Persians are white.

"Americans do not consider Persians to be white, hence Jake whatever playing a Persian is being discussed!"

That proves nothing. Americans may be white, black, red or yellow! 'American' refers to either residence or citizenship but it DOES NOT denote either race, ethnicity or ancestry.

Would you please tell me how and when 'Americans' became the SOLE arbiter of this issue?

I don't care what MOST AMERICANS think nor is it true that the standard by which this issue is settled is by taking a poll of Americans.

Persians are white!

“So, people with white skin, brown eyes and dark hair are not considered to be white in America?”

Not if you’re Persian. Look V I didn’t write the rulebook. Hell I don’t even endorse the rulebook. All I’m doing is acknowledging it’s existence. Americans, by and large do not consider Persians to be white. It’s that simple. If you actually have a counter-argument as to why Americans do consider Persians to be white I would love to hear it.

FYI sweetie pie is definitely an American term of endearment and not the opening phrase for a put down.

Re: "Americans by and large do not consider Persians to be “white.” It doesn’t matter whether or not they are. "

I don't care what Americans 'by and large' consider to be white and what they 'consider' to be black. This is an ANTHROPOLOGICAL issue and it is NOT decided by referendum.

PERSIANS ARE CAUCASIANS AND THUS ARE 'WHITE'.

Live with it!

Re: "You’re right V if anyone is retarded it would be me because for some odd reason I love to poke bat-shit crazy with sound logic."

LOL LOL LOL Nothing in your post indicates even an ELEMENTARY acquaintance with the most basic syllogism let alone the subtleties of logic, symbolic logic, or inference. I suggest you read --and master --Russell's 'Principia Mathematica', Ayer's "Language, Truth and Logic' and Bronowski's 'Science and Human Values' before boasting of having mastered LOGIC. Post some evidence of at least having mastered a rudimentary three line syllogism.

Now --it you don't like that, I suggest that you contact Harvard, Yale, University of Ca at Berkely, Cambridge, Texas A and M, Oxford and INFORM them that their sociology departments have gotten it all wrong. They might be grateful and bestow upon you an honorary degree.

So, Ricky - how do you tell the difference between a blonde, blue-eyed and white-skinned Persian and a blonde, blue-eyed and white-skinned Belgian, how do you profile them, by what criteria do you make the difference?

Oh, and I was called "sweetie pie" by British people, in England, over 50 years ago, it is originally an English expression - and I was being patronizing when I called you sweetie pie.

Oh yes, haha V I love you. So let me get this right. A person that correctly acknowledges the American perception of race (no matter how messed up it is) should also be quizzed about their own perception of race since the acknowledgment itself is a sign of ignorance or racism. Dear god how is that any different than labeling a black person a thug, drug dealer, delinquent because of the actions of a select few?

@Lenhart.

Do you want me to post that picture again because I will.

“No --you are the fuckin dumbass who insists upon a blatant non sequitur that would have gotten your thrown off my Jr High school debate team.”

“You cannot win this argument”

“I am NOT interested in what you are saying.”

Great so you would have been kicked off the Jr high debate team too because you can’t have a debate or argument by willfully ignoring what the other party is saying.

So here’s something for you to ignore again.

“Americans by and large do not consider Persians to be “white.” It doesn’t matter whether or not they are. This is a discussion of a social construct within the US. Your point simply put is useless because a social construct is an agreed upon perception and not a fact or absolute based on reality.” Ricky84

It doesn’t matter whether or not they are.
It doesn’t matter whether or not they are.
It doesn’t matter whether or not they are.
It doesn’t matter whether or not they are.
It doesn’t matter whether or not they are.

“You don't undertand! I DON'T CARE”

Oh I completely understand that point.

“I care and I am somebody!”

I fucking love you, seriously.

“You can'tn even insult with imagination or creativity.”

Says the guy with a Che Guevara avatar :P

Oh my that joke about your AV completely sailed over your head. How the hell did you miss it? Granted it's not the funniest or most clever joke I've ever told but the point should be pretty god damn apparent.

Che= super over used symbol of rebellion found on everything from teeshirts to key chains, and usually worn or possessed by a collection of ignorant uninformed, ill-informed jitterbugs with a bone to pick. That's your av len, the symbol of non-imaginative and uncreative Utopian morons. Of course I would never call you a moron it was just a joke and I'm truly sorry you didn't get it.

Persia is in the Middle East, flyingkick. The reason why European Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis had nothing to do with skin colour, either. As for Jews and skin colour - what about the Jews of China (who don't look different from the Chinese)? What about the African Jews from Ethiopia? Etc.

Read my post again. I clearly wrote 'ethnic Jews.'

Define "Ethnic Jews". Many Chinese Jews have the Cohen DNA, and the Falashas of Ethiopia too.

Re: "Millions of Jews died in the Holocaust because they were not White."

NOPE! Millions of jews and other groups to include gypsies died in the Holocaust because HITLER was a bigot, a megalomaniac and ignoramus who presumed to rule the world. What HItler did or did not do for any bogus reason proves nothing but that maniacs should never presume to rule or conquer the world.

NO ONE of any intelligence takes Hitler's RACIAL PREJUDICES seriously! The HOLOCAUST followed from Hitler's FUZZY and un-informed ideas and prejudices about race and ethnicity. Hitler was a bigot and because HITLER did something is most certainly not evidence for or against ANY view whatsoever.

'White' is a social construct that is only a few hundred years old. Persians are definitely not white. Ask an average American if the leader of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is white. Can you guess what they'll say?

Also, the issue of racial profiling Persians at airports would not exist if Persians were white.

By your standards, then, flyingkick, most Italians, Spaniards, French, Bosnians, Kosovars, Serbs, Greeks, etc., are not white either - many of them are darker than most Iranians. You don't know what you are babbling about, flyingkick.

Vier,

You're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. 'White' is a social construct. George Bush can get a tan that's darker than Obama, and he will still be white. It's the American perception of race I'm talking about, not skin color.

Italians were not considered white when they first migrated to the US, and Spaniards are still not considered white, in the US at least.

Anyway, the Persians I know do not identify themselves as white.

Where were you during the white racism against Middle-Eastern people after 911? How is that that kind of racism is even possible if Middle-Eastern people are white?

'White' is a social construct that is only a few hundred years old. Persians are definitely not white. Ask an average American if the leader of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is white. Can you guess what they'll say?

Also, the issue of racial profiling Persians at airports would not exist if Persians were white.

Thank you Mr. Kick.

at least somebody has done their history homework. ;-) good post V.

What does that even mean?

And many people don't think actors don't fit roles before the movie comes out (IE Heath Ledger as the Joker....A LOT of people thought that, I was in the minority that didn't) and then when the movie comes out they become utterly wrong.

Oh what a pleasure it will be when this is the case for this movie.

& how.

And neither have you.

Last time I checked, 'Malcom X' was a Hollywood film starring Denzel Washington, and Morgan Freeman played Nelson Mandela in the Hollywood film 'Invictus.' Matt Damon was a co-star in 'Invictus' though, is that OK?

NO, it's no OK.... 2 movies in the last 15 years... that's the best you can do? Than my point is more valid.... and Jammer aka the second coming of Moses, who cares what you think...

Ksirys,

You are hilarious. You don't even know when you're wrong!
Want some more? I can't believe you've never heard of these movies.

Miracle at St. Anna
Frida
Stand and Deliver

Tom Hanks as Malcolm X.... perfect casting, or better yet Sean Penn as Chairman Mao now that would win an oscar!

ha....oh you.