The Glenn Beck Debate

part 7
what you thought or forefathers envisioned and what the others feel the fore fathers envisioned are 2 differant things. It is obvious that they envisioned a country that is free from government interferance. We dont have anything even close to that. to bad if people are to damn lazy to get a JOB. I was just laid off and I was back to work in less than 2 weeks. Dont tell me it cant be done. get off the counch, put down the WOW game, tell mom you'll be back when you get a job. Its not that hard.

part 5 and 6......you really didnt say anything he said was wrong only that other could have made the same predictions so Theres really nothing to debate there.

The reason he talks about dodd is because he wasw supposed to produe documants showing his sweetheart dealsfrom freddie and fannis. he still hasnt and instead of producing documents he will just leave office. dodd is as big a liar as the rest of them.

Van jones may be talked about agin as the elections get closer.

part 4 you didnt disagree really with anything other than to offer an opinion on how he should run his show. BTW the number one news show in his time slot and watch by more than any shown on msnbc. I am pretty sure GB is happy with the way his show is going

Barack obama said he would post the debates, talks, discussions whatever you choose to call them, on cspan. He did not. Thats a lie. One of many. he also is not posting bills to the net for 5 days like he said and again thats a lie. No other way to spin it. He said it, he didnt do it, its a lie. why even try to defend that one?

The us is very dependant on consumer spending. We manufacture nothing of any real value here any more and we certainly dont manufacture anything that we can double the exports of, like obama said in his state of the union address. wht planet is this guy living on?

Anyone, like myself in the late 80's, who has ever had the ITS on their back knows to be very afraid of them. they are almost worse then the law. Those not concerned with what the IRS is up to are very foolish people.

we use the socialist referance becuase thats the way this country is heading as has been for many years now. obama is just putting the process into hyoper speed mode.

as far as the china thing. The point he was making is the work force in China can work for and produce goods far cheaper than we can. The unions have screwed the people out of jobs. I AM A union member. I was paid 65,000 a year to sit at a desk and answer a phone. 65,000. thats crazy. thats why I wa laid off. the office consisted of 6 people who sat there and answered the phone 24/7. on rare occassions we would have to fix someting. otherwise we sat there and played on the net. Me, I played on current. Thats why I was able to devote so much time trying to educate you all. Now I am back in the real, non union world and dont have as much time to play on current. That is why it is taking me so long now to do this. I am back in the real world. union life is nice, but its killing this country. Back when I was trucking full time, like I am again, I could back into a loading dock and tell you within 2 minutes or less if it was union or not just by the way they were working.

Glen Beck is right when he talks about china and their ability to produce goods cheapere than we can. Kinda surprised you would even argue that point. Thats the point he was making

The debt will now be over 14 trillion dollars. soon it will be well above what bush has done to us. Yes, I know obama had to spen that much to get us out of debt.....pulease give me a break. That a bunch of BS. obama will far outspend bush. It wont even be close.

I don't know what you're staying out of at this point, since ihate probably won't be debating any of the points. You're welcome to dispute any aspect of my material.

ya ok delia, i just think i'll stay out of it. Have a good day.

Cmdinc, whatchu talkin' 'bout? I didn't tell you not to get involved, I told you to read it! You didn't ruffe my feathers, I just found it strange that you asked me "where did he lie" when I spent 7 posts detailing every piece of misinformation.

Glenn Beck, if he didn't outright lie, misinformed people about the government's role in business (more accurately he did not inform at all), reasons for China's growth in green sectors like solar power, our ability to compete in a "green economy", our economic breakdown, CSPAN's coverage (as we both said we'll have to wait it out to see how the finale debate is handled, but CSPAN has covered it up to this point), etc etc. Don't put words in my mouth and say I somehow asked you not to participate when that's clearly not the case.

well i am sorry Delia, i should have stayed out of it. I somtimes forget Current members claim to want diversity, but strike at it constantly.
I said i only had TIME for part one, but i was going to review the rest.

HEalth care coverage: the Bills mean nothing until reconciled, it;s the reconciliation that the back door deals are made, and i want to see them.

If you would watch the show more than a single version he has come down on Bush just as much.

I did read all of your points, some were valid others were striclty opinion. Having debated before i couldn't help but stick my nose in where it shouldn't have gone. Sorry for ruffling your feathers

Just a thought,
. . . Isn't it ironic though that Jon Stewarts tongue-in-cheek parody of Glenn Becks analogies actually serves to amplify Becks impact on spotlighting a reawakening awareness of the many nefarious bureaucratic maneuvers that have been going on beneath the mainstream media radar (perhaps knowingly?), and would not see the light of day if not for his "expose?"

cmdinc, How can you ask me "where did he lie" and then admit that you didn't read past Part one? Even in part one I post sources to CSPAN's hundreds of hours of health care coverage and the falsity of the 70/30 mindset. When it comes to debt, I never claimed that his numbers were wrong, only that his assertion that the debt was "until recently considered health" was, since Bush rang up 5 trillie in office. His points are not true and factual, they are products of his researchers summarizing talking points for him combined with analysis of his own opinion. If you really want to get into this, at least read what I wrote, and not expect me to reiterate all of the things I spent time organizing and writing out.

I apreciate you don't like Beck Delia but where did Beck lie. I only had time for part one but the points he made were concrete an d factual. He obviously added some entertainment as that is what he is supposed to do.

Bullet points of part one:

We are spending more than we bring in. To each american a tag of $346,445 is due. So for my family i owe 1.2 million wtf. To be compared to an angry teanager is mild. Have you all really thought about this? do you all have $346 k? This debt, and yes they all are to blame, is driving this country into the ground and a collapse is going to happen.

doesn't Beck have a point on the IRS? Have you ever had to explain to agent # so and so that you claimed dog food as a deduction as it is a watch dog? they don't buy it. If we kept our books as the Government does we would be in jail. If we run out of money we are forced to stop spending, why shouldn't the governemet be forced to do the same? It should be law we cannot spend more than we take in. period

They are all lying about the HEalth care debate. Obama made it very clear the debate would be open and televised for all to see, instead it is happeneing behind closed doors. The republicans are guilty also of not putting forward a "plan B" Pelosi did lie, she said the debate would be open...not

There are plenty of sources that back beck's claim regarding his points on the economy

"Supply includes employment and natural resources such as oil. Demand, or personal consumption, drives 70% of the economy. "

http://useconomy.about.com/od/howtheeconomyworks/u/how-does-us-economy-work.htm

Sorry to jump in Delia but most of, if not all, have similar houghts as yourself, just wanted to throw in a differnet one. Peace

ihate, I'm just glad you are ok (as in, alive and well), though I am extremely sorry about your job situation! You may be surprised that you didn't get to many calls of chicken, I don't think anyone really pegged you as the type to run from an argument. In a lot of ways this was a success because it got the ole idea machine pumping! Good luck with everything and I hope to see you back around Current soon!

@ihatethemall Ditto to noxidereus replied

How about leaving the offer open until you can devote more time to it?

The post isn't going anywhere, so how about just tabling the debate until later?

That way you can take care of whatever business that needs to get done, then whenever you have sufficient spare time, you can go over the all the details and come up with a suitable rebuttal.

@ihatethemall. Sorry you got laid off. Good luck with everything. I hope it works out for you.

So everyone knows. I have a real job besides the farm and part time trucking. I was laid off as of 1-08-10. I have the choice of either taking a transfer to the coalfields of WYO or the ports in Lousiana. I am a foreman with the railroad. I dont even have the time right now to look at, what I am guessing, is a entire story about people calling me a chicken, or afraid to debate Delia. You will see that I will be absent from Current for a week or so until I get to my new destination or just quit the railroad all together and go back to trucking full time. I thank Delia for her being the only with one enough guts to take me up on the debate. I am truly sorry and offer her my most sincere apoligies for missing the debate.

You are a top notch chick Delia.

This is funny. The strokers came to live for this one.

Well I'm sorry folks, that this didn't work out as planned. I truly hope everything is OK with ihatethemall and nothing serious is going on, I can't help but be a little worried. I suppose we can call this a success in concept, considering it has led to a lot of community interest and the creation of more groups, but a failure in execution. I'm about to go download Skype and I urge you too as well if you are interested in this experiment. Check out and join the Skype Debates Beta group http://current.com/groups/skype-debates-beta/ to get more information on the plans to move forward, the technical side of the situation as well as add your ideas for debates and methods. Thanks everyone for the support, I hope we can make this debate idea something great on Current!

Aside as an exercise to sharpen your debating skills, you guys are wasting your time. It's like talking to a cult member.

Beck's 'fans' are not motivated by logic and reasoning, and no amount of evidence will sway Rush/Hannity/Savage fans from their emotionally-driven beliefs. These people KNOW what they WANT to believe, and these infotainers simply spoon-feed their audiences what they WANT to hear. They actually believe they're listening to journalists, and even if they realized they were listening to infotainers who are free to make up facts, they probably wouldn't care. After all, they heard it on the radio, so it MUST be true. After all, they believe the MSM lies regularly, so what's the point of worrying about "the truth"?

The easiest lie to be accepted by listeners is one they desparately WANT to believe. Logic doesn't even enter into the equation....

Perhaps if we all challenged those Glenn Beck fans we all know and love to engage - we all know ONE! Put a call out to all Beck fans everywhere?

Um... maybe... tomorrow...

:(

love the debate idea....check out the Current Debates group...

here's a brief list of GB lies: from a post of mine last month:

beck: the 9/12 project brought 1.7 million people to the capital
fact: the local fire marshal put the tally between 50-70K

beck: “I checked. We have never had a president sworn into office without a Bible.”
fact: in 1901, teddy Roosevelt was not sworn in on a bible, Lyndon Johnson used a Catholic missal aboard Air Force One after Kennedy’s assassination, and John Quincy Adams used a constitutional law book instead of the bible.

beck: "Carbon dioxide is not a poison! How can co2 be a poison when it's naturally occurring and plants and trees need it to grow!?
fact: step one: put a bag over your head...step two: breathe normally....

beck: "A bombing did take place this past week in a town just north of Seattle called Everett!! The only reason why I know this story is 'cause I was there."
fact: the KRKO radio towers that beck claimed were "bombed"...."what the protesters in everett used was the back end of an excavator that was stolen from a construction site, They went and attached it to the tower and pushed one of them over and pulled the other one down." -president and GM of KRKO

Beck lied when he said recently that $1.4 million of stimulus money was used to repair a door at Dyess AFB. The doors repaired were aircraft hangar doors and the cost was not $1.4 million.
The cost was $246000

Beck lied when he said that the US was the ONLY country that had a natural birthright provision. There are 33 others...

Beck lied when he said that when users used the government's cash for clunker site they had to agree that their computers would become government property.

Beck claimed that “buried” Treasury documents from March show that the cost of a cap-and-trade carbon market to regulate global warming pollution is $1,761 per household per year...the CBO analyzed the Waxman-Markey American Clean Energy and Security Act after Beck made this claim and found that it would actually cost 160 dollars per household, per year...putting that figure at 44 cents per day...

Beck claimed that Van Jones went to prison for taking part in the Rodney King riots....
fact: Jones was detained on May 8th, 1992 for taking part in a peaceful march in San Francisco, he was released within hours and actually won (and was compensated) a class-action lawsuit for unjust arrest....

Beck: "In the health care bill, we're now offering insurance for dogs."
fact: Included in the House bill is the creation of a Public Health Workforce Corps to address shortages in the public health workforce. The program would provide scholarships and education loan repayment assistance for public health professionals, which includes veterinarians...so all it does is help vets pay back student loans...

Hrm, maybe tomorrow?

Yes, maybe have a random comment publish - where off-handed disjointer gets the author a well-deserved spotlight.

Glenn Beck is a stooge. The end.

I still can't seem to understand why that guy hates the mall so much. ;p

I think this is a good idea. I will stay tuned to see what ihatethemall says.

Thanks for the support! I'm sorry to see this at the top of the news without my opponent's viewpoint represented, so I hope you guys will check back in for ihatethemall's responses!

The problem with the "media" is that there are too many pundits. Pundits are not journalists. Pundits are not "Talking Heads". Even Talking Heads have facts and true statistics that are relevant to the topic, see: "Experts". Pundits are equivalent to the absurd "Letters to the Editor" that mostly don't get printed in the papers. What they say isn't fact based, it's emotional based, to tug at the Crazies' heartstrings because the Busies are too busy working to watch that crap. But because the Busies don't have time, the Crazies are making pundits popular.

One of my friends, who recently got her degree in journalism, once said, "There will be no place for me in the industry and I'll never find a job." I consider her a great journalist, but she continued, "I feel that news isn't supposed to be your friend. The objectivity of a journalist is the blank stare face or blank nod that a broadcast journalist gives the person being interviewed. The media is the Fourth Branch of government. It checks and balances the checkers and balancers. The public is supposed to decipher the information for themselves in order to act or react. Journalists just supply the facts." She's still unemployed, but starting her own thing online.

Glenn Beck is a complete hypocrite. Dante has a place for him called the 9th circle of hell. The guys talks shit about Obama's ties to ACORN, all these democrats who benefit personally from their actions, and GLENN BECK is pumping his own business interests while pretending to be a journalist:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/breaking-news/is-glenn-becks-tie-to-goldline-a-viola.../

Last I checked, all my friends in journalism are NOT ALLOWED to do such a thing because it means they are NOT objectively reporting. Rather, they are scamming people and writing for their own interest.

In Part II, you write:

"All kinds of people are going to come after you because you’re making anything in America,” Glenn claims. What? Who’s coming after me? Glenn doesn’t explain how any of the groups on his list actually hurt business, he’s just working from the assumption that they do."

I think it is more than an assumption. Small business owners, hampered by a lack of available capital and seeing tax increases on their business and themselves in the future, have shut down all over this country. It is why the unemployment rate is so high as small business drives the economy. I have a small organic farm and most of our small business clients have gone under.

Then you write:

"Now let’s look at China’s way of doing business: Beck writes down “Children” as his work force for China! According to Glenn Beck, the only issues in Chinese industry is their workforce, comprised of “Children”, and ‘Parts”."

I had to go back and rewatch this part (painful!). He does not go into enough depth but the use of Chinese child and prison labor is extensive and very thoroughly documented. Certainly it is not the only facet of Chinese business and I think he exaggerated.

This is awesome. Nicely done Delia. I can't wait for the response.

In Part I you ask what the C Span thing is all about. From my understanding, there are at least 8 clips of Obama campaigning in which he says he will make sure the health care reform process in covered by C Span. Brian Lamb, the founder of C Span, has written a letter reminding the President of his campaign promises and of C Span's capabilities. He is awaiting the White House's response.

Nice work Delia. I love a level-headed discussion rife with facts and sources, rather than the often emotional, talking-point filled, knee-jerk editorials that so requently flow from the right. It will be very difficult to argue with Delia's points. They are deeply rooted in logic and backed up with realiable sources. I truely wonder if I Hate The Mall will be able to do anything but regurgitate Beck's diatribe word for word. It's not really a debate if you back-up your editorial with someone elses editorial. Trolls aren't very good with facts and figures. They would just rather sensationalize the issue than debate it. I wish him luck. I wonder how he will deal with the simple fact that we are out of oil.(See the film Crude Awakening) Our fossil fuel based world economy is changing. Counter-point that fact, please!

Besides, Glenn Beck is a Morman. He doesn't care what happens to the rest of us when the world comes to an end. He's on the "guest list" at the Mormon, VIP heaven.hahahaha

Bansheewail, over and out

I love the initiative, but anyone that listen's to Beck has to have some lack in moral judgement-- the guy is clearly racist: he talked on and on about how he wouldn't go to India because of the names of their rivers and hospitals. But let's face it, he is paid to be a personality. You think he's really a racist and stupid? No, he's paid to act that way which just makes him a pathetic prostitute. There are a lot of people in this economy that will sell their souls for fame and this guy has a straight ticket to being well off in this country. Does someone who really wants to be a journalist and truth seeker appear on fox network? No, not even a real conservative or republican. It's a circus people, and the retaliation of his ideas or part of that circus. But I do love a good, intense beat down of him ( you have to catch John stewart's episode where he does a whole segment impersonating him).

Loved it! The best part was pointing at that much of Glenn's show consists of Glenn inventing hypothetical situations...and then analyizing them. Glenn offers very few "facts" and when he does try to present a "fact" it's really just a vague ill-defined opinon like "Obama created the deficit!" or "All government law destroys the economy."

I think Delia did a masterful job!

Bravo!

Is this mano e mano (figuratively speaking)... or an invitational dogpile?

sound, rational and accurate observations and conclusions Delia..well done!

I hope Glenn Beck actually reads this debate and listens to what people think of him.

Great job Delia, solid criticisms.

I think this is a great idea. I have been toying with a notion of something I would like to call "Rate the Debate". It would require Current to program a new system in which members vote on debate comments and the comments with the most votes rise to the top of the comment list, while the comments with the least votes move towards the bottom. What do you think of that?

PART VII

Beck ends his show desperate to prove how much research goes into it, though frankly I found the episode full of much more opinion and downright fiction than fact. Many of Glenn's points were based on his theoretical imaginings of politics, not actualities.

Glenn takes us through a warm and fuzzy speech about the power of America- and I agree, America is able to make it through this crisis time and once again emerge as leaders in innovation, technology and social justice. Beck urges us to think about our forefathers- but when I do, I don't imagine that they envisioned this system of capitalism, where our basic systems- food, energy, information- are run by a handful of mega- corporations who sue anyone, even the government agencies meant to regulate them, who stand against them. Surely the answer to America's problems is not scaring up images of being a soviet citizen or delving into opinion heavy diatribes with no sources- it's multi-faceted and involves a cooperation of capitalism, regulation and citizen watchdogs. Most of all I think it involves the reiteration that the government is not some entity repressing us, WE ARE the government, we deserve accountability on all levels of our country INCLUDING the "free market", and we must utilize philosophy, concepts and systems from a variety of world views and governments.

Part IV

I don’t understand the math that ensues on Glenn’s third chalk board. Not only am I miserable at money economics- Interest is bad, that’s what I get from it - but Glenn’s numbers are all theoretical anyway- when Glenn asked him the likelihood that his situation actually plays out, his guest David Buckner avoids the question completely. I think Glenn's message would be more effectively made through the use of real situations and actual answers from his "expert".

Part V

“I don’t think that Chris Dodd is George Washington.” Um, I’m not sure who was advocating this position nor why Glenn Beck sounds extra congested when he talks about Chris Dodd. The whole time he’s outlining ridiculous imaginary circumstances for why Chris Dodd is leaving, I thought he was going to reveal some kind of real information- but he doesn’t, he gives an anecdote about swimming and not saving drowning people. I wanted to argue Glenn’s claim that his “predictions are usually right”, but I didn’t even know where to start!

Part VI

Politicians? Desperate? Never! But seriously, Glenn references “Van Jones” as something the Democrats will have to distract you from around election time. When was the last time anyone was discussing Van Jones?

Glenn goes onto predict the hot topic will be immigration, but says something strange; “If you think we are a nation of laws, and not of men, you will be called nasty names.” Wasn’t the idea of being a nation of laws and not men the alleged problem Glenn was just discussing? Wasn’t he just bashing the idea of government law being applied over people when it came to credit and the economy? It seems to be a strange switch of philosophy!

Anyway, I don't think the topic of immigration ever left the political spectrum anyway- yes, the economy and heathcare have taken the main stage, and at this point our international relations and safety issues are the hot topic, but "predicting" that politicians will talk about immigration is like "predicting" that it will rain.

Glenn says “The facts are on our side”, but I’m not sure what the sides are. Glenn assumes that him and other Fox representatives will be called racists- but he didn’t actually “predict” any actions or arguments from the “other side” from which he’s defending himself.

Part III

The Green Economy/The Third Industrial Revolution

Glenn Beck blames the government... David Buckner agrees with this assessment, saying it would be better if we were not “hindered by government intervention or being steered by government intervention.”

The talk of government intervention, especially in the areas of environmental policy, couldn’t help but remind me of a documentary I just watched called “Who Killed the Electric Car”, which I highly recommend to people of all political spectrums. Not only does it show that American companies are capable of producing environmentally sound, innovative and world dominating technologies, it shows how corporations, and the corporate corruption of the government can be responsible for their demise- there is nothing “pure” about our brand of capitalism. In addition to this, government intervention can steer business, technology and industry in the right direction if handled properly- in the case of the electric car, the automobile industry sued the California Air Resources Board to get rid of zero emissions mandates. I sincerely urge those who are interested in these issues to check out Who Killed The Electric Car as it makes this point very clear and backs up the assertion by Dr. Clark, that lobbyists and greed are the problems in America's quest for a green economy.

This doesn’t mean that these government agencies are free from corruption or “hindrance”, but the argument that deregulation is the answer is argued best by history. Clinton and Bush both took measures to deregulate banks and wall street (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/29/bush-administration-to-un_n_94066.html) and that should not be ignored when analyzing our current economic crisis. Letting corporations do what they please plays a huge role, one of the biggest, in the corruptions of American Society.

They are talking about “Green Jobs”, but only mentioning solar panels. Here’s some info on Green Jobs in America:

http://www.cggc.duke.edu/environment/climatesolutions/

Solar panels are just a small part of jobs that can be considered "green".

The fact of the matter is our move towards a green economy, or as scholars call "The Third Industrial Revolution", is not just about tree huggers and government intervention- we MUST reduce and eventually rid ourselves of our dependence on foreign oil and an oil based economy for the good of our nation, the planet and world economics.

Part II

“The lie being told to you right now…green jobs…”

The first time I really heard about a “green economy” wasn’t some government lie, it was from Dr. Woodrow Clark II (http://current.com/items/90049416_interview-with-dr-woodrow-clark-ii.htm) who said this:

“Q: There are so many types of renewable energy sources; solar, wind, biomass- it seems we could easily run America on sustainable energy! What’s the biggest obstacle to this goal right now?

A: Primarily public policy -- it is far too limited and "afraid" of change. See what the Europeans and Japanese are doing. I am and some scholars refer to this difference as The Third Industrial Revolution (renewable energy, storage and new technologies, smart girds and cities etc). That is the USA is still in The Second Industrial Revolution that is influenced and "controlled" by lobbyists for the oil & gas industry as well as auto (although that might change now, finally!)”

We’ll get back to this “lie” in Part III.

Glenn’s at the chalkboard, marking off the things that stand in the way of American business- mostly the government.

“All kinds of people are going to come after you because you’re making anything in America,” Glenn claims. What? Who’s coming after me? Glenn doesn’t explain how any of the groups on his list actually hurt business, he’s just working from the assumption that they do.

Now let’s look at China’s way of doing business: Beck writes down “Children” as his work force for China! According to Glenn Beck, the only issues in Chinese industry is their workforce, comprised of “Children”, and ‘Parts”.

It seems somewhat inaccurate and even socially insensitive to make such a claim, so let’s look at some reasons for China’s development in the green market:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/business/energy-environment/25solar.html

“Since March, Chinese governments at the national, provincial and even local level have been competing with one another to offer solar companies ever more generous subsidies, including free land, and cash for research and development. State-owned banks are flooding the industry with loans at considerably lower interest rates than available in Europe or the United States.”

Ah, their governments are competitively offering incentives for solar companies! Those damn communists!

The topic switches to the debt- “A debt that was until recently considered healthy” - Until recently? I suppose recently is a rather subjective word to use, but let’s take into consideration the following facts:

“When Bush took office, the national debt was $5.73 trillion. When he left, it was $10.7 trillion. That's a difference of $4.97 trillion.” (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jan/22/rahm-emanuel/5-tr...)

Our national debt is now around 12 trillion, making Obama responsible for about 2 trillion, right?

So at what point does Glenn consider the debt going from healthy to unhealthy?

Part I

Glenn starts the program with an air that one might attribute to an angry teenager, a stack of books behind his desk to prove how well read he is. We launch into the expectation of anger we’ll feel to those who are “stealing our children’s future” as he scares up imagery of the IRS coming after none other than YOU, the innocent, patriotic American! Glenn‘s wise advice? “Grab a torch!”

“They’re lying to us all the time,” Glenn says. No argument there. “I haven’t felt like a soviet citizen ever in my life, but boy I feel like one when I saw Nancy Pelosi speak,” Why do we have to go immediately to the socialism reference? Is politicians lying some new phenomenon; it has to be a soviet plot?

I don’t really watch a lot of CSPAN (and neither self admittedly does Glenn Beck- “I didn’t watch it myself, we have researchers, it’s far too boring to watch.”) What is the CSPAN issue? Do people think there hasn’t been enough media coverage and public awareness of the health care situation? There were Town Halls all over the country and not a day goes by that I don’t hear something about it. When I researched it, I found this:

“He [C-SPAN chief Brian Lamb] said he wrote the letter because C-SPAN had already covered hundreds of hours of debate on health care, and he wanted to make sure that leaders knew C-SPAN was interested in following the issue to the end.

But as Democrats enter talks on the separate versions of the legislation passed by the House and Senate, they're hesitant to allow C-SPAN's cameras to air the proceedings. Republicans say Democrats are backing away from Obama's pledge of transparency.”

(http://www.seattlepi.com/tvguide/413911_tvgif6.html)

So it would seem they are having an issue now, but a conclusion has not been reached and CSPAN has hundreds of hours of coverage of debate on health care- it is the final debate that is in question.

“The media will only tell us part of the story!” Does Glenn not consider himself part of “The media”?

Glenn writes on his chalkboard (“school us”, Glenn!) that our economy is 70% spending and 30% “everything else.” Consider this argument by Michael Mandel of Business Week:

“In fact, by my very rough calculations, the money that people actually pull out of their paychecks and bank accounts to pay for domestically-produced goods and services drives about 40% of economic activity in this country. That’s still large—but the U.S. is nowhere near as dependent on consumer spending as people think.”

(http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2009/08/get_it_...)

That’s part one!