Your Efforts are All IN Vain!!!- a response to defeatism

I like your style... Anyone that disagrees is a fan of our current state or unwilling to do anything to change. Regardless, the point/counterpoint of Saladin was one of the most defeatists essays I have ever read. Wow, apparently some people do not believe in progress. Keep the faith and we will be able to truly create a more ideal country for all of us to live.

it's kinda like "the man" likes to breed us all lazy and comfy like, for a reason.

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Did you know:What does the "X" stand for in x-ray?
politican it seems to be just alot of words meaning nothing

This post is great & full of important information.

However, I suspect it's full of more information than most current dot com folk have the patience for!

Also, are you assuming that voting is actually working well in our country? I've been feeling slighted by the sheer size and obvious hijacking of it.

Nice haircut!

Alright currenters, here's another dose of hard truth. And this one's a doozy.

PP, I can understand why you hate defeatism. Obviously, while it's possible to try and fail, you only make failure a certainty when you don't try.

But the history major in me hates idealism more than apathy, especially considering the history of this country.

Do you have any idea how many peoples' movements in this country utterly failed, even when they had overwhelming public support? Did you ever notice the correlation between success of popular movements and organized monetary or political interests? Civil Rights had LBJ, workers rights had FDR and business (at least in the contemporary period). People in power both those moves, and they were NOT elected on those premises. LBJ especially.

Let me hit you with some serious reality here, let me tell you what actually happened in all of the examples you listed.

1. Abolitionists were almost universally hated, they were pretty much held in the same regard by most of the public as PETA is today. They were considered annoying radicals.

When the Civil War broke out, Lincoln initially didn't even intend to abolish slavery. It wasn't until three years into the war that it was implemented, and even then only as a war aim for more union troops. And much of support for the 13th amendment came from resentment of the south for the war.

It is an utter myth that abolitionists did anything to further the cause, the Civil War did that, in the first sense of the word. Abolition was a spoil of war.

So 1 point to violence, none for political action.

2. World War 1 is what accomplished Womens' Suffrage. The suffragette movement spent most of the Gilded Age trying to get what they wanted and failing. Well over 30 years of struggle and NOTHING to show for it. In fact, feminism was born in that period and womens' rights receded.

It was public sentiment for womens' contribution to the war effort that finally turned things around. The amendment passed not long after it was over.

So that would be another point for violence, even though it's indirect. 2-zip

3. Gandhi in NO way defeated the British Empire, especially not with peaceful protest. The most damaging thing he did was economic strikes, which is a far cry from peaceful.

It was WWII that defeated the British Empire. Their citizens got sick of holding onto it and were in no position to enforce it. That's not just me making shit up, you can read in their national security bulletins. They're public data now. 3-zip

4. After 100 years of active, consistent civil rights lobbying, it was LBJ and his competent congress, not MLK, that really got shit done. The sheer respect

Although in 1964 the civil rights act was passed, in 1965 the Watts Riot happened and fucked everything up.

By the time the fair housing act passed in 1968, people hated MLK. White sympathy had turned to white rage, fueling the conservative backlash to this day. And the peaceful politics of MLK gave way to Malcom X and his ilk, who advocated direct and sometimes violent action.

Were it not for the fact that he was assassinated, he likely would have been disgraced out of the public arena.

But we'll give political action a point, just for fun. 3-1.

4. The Czechs? It sure helped that the Soviets were collapsing. 4-1

5. Yeah, and how much of that Ukrainian work was done by peaceful, non-violent means?

By the way, it's STILL corrupt as shit. Don't know much about it though so I'll just cede that one to you. 4-2

So even being generous to you, your view is in trouble.

Here's the thing, the notion that standing up and working change in your democracy gets things done is a useful public myth. It organizes society, it keeps things peaceful, and it promotes civility, discourse and rule of law. But it's total bullshit, it's not real.

Political backroom deals, targeted, discrete and meaningful violence, wars, depressions, massively destructive protests (either physically or economically) like sit-ins or riots, total public outrage, etc., THESE things do the IMPOSSIBLE for our public systems.

But peaceful protests? Working for candidates? Getting the word out? Those only work on non-controversial issues where people are willing to listen, and you better have a big advertising budget to boot.

This is illustrated best by you actually. Remember when you were talking about how liberals are wusses? Remember how you worked for Kucinich and admired the conservatives who worked for Huckabee?

Guess what? They didn't win, not by a longshot. They didn't stand a chance in hell. And if they had won the primaries (which practically isn't possible since primaries aren't straight popular vote) they would have been beaten out by whichever side had a more electable candidate.

And why?

Because, like you said (but apparently don't really believe) democracy as we know it is an ABSTRACTION. It doesn't actually exist, it's an ideal we HOPE to achieve in government. It's an organizing principle so us monkeys get along.

The reality is quite different. Individuals, like you said, get together and decide how things are going to go down. Usually rich but always powerful ones. They don't always get along and their reign isn't very tight, but very rarely is it any different. Even the greatest accomplishments this country has ever seen, like Social Security, were mostly done in FEAR of the mob rising up.

VERY rarely has it ever been that people got the word out and got the vote out. That shit belongs in Hollywood movies, that's how infrequently those things happen.

Fuck defeatism and fuck idealism. REALISM is your best hope in this world.

Understand what really moves people, what really gets things going and suddenly it becomes a lot clearer why nothing progressive gets done in this country.

Here's a hint, it ISN'T because people don't try hard enough. Stuff like that is something cute you put on a bumper sticker, it has nothing to do with how history gets made.

oh oh..another call for change.......

i'm alover not a figter

has anyone herd of the coked up stimulouse monkeys yet. i just saw it on CNN.

making me smile....
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thank god for nepatism!!!!! IM SERIOUSly be up crap creek. its good to be an american!

well done!

REVOLUTION!!! CIVIL WAR part DEUX?

It's about time someone analysed this state of growing apathy...
I think one here and now reason for defeatist apathy is that we live in A world of "instant gratification" and have A hard time with patience and focus...I have recently been wondering if an election could possibly be won by masses of pissed off people that decided that they had enough and all wrote in on there ballot for say A Ralph Nader/Elizabeth Warren Presidency in 2012...
That is what I am going to do......Great Post-You and people like you give me great hope for the younger generation...

Don't bother watching this. It won't help. Nothing helps. We're all going to die.

Voted up btw

Why is this listed as comedy? This should be listed as educational.

defeatism, is that some form of fungal infection? how about revolutionary...ism?

REVOLUTION!!!!

You knocked that one out of the park.

This may help many make substantial connections,not only in life ; well done !

great post!

I've been struggling with this same issue. It's been bothering me for a while now. I'm really glad I watched this. It kind of forced me to cut through my own bullshit. Thanks.

tl;dr

@asherp ...always with the intelligent posts, the thing is with Americans we have a problem with complacency when we fought for change we had real leadership people were willing to make real sacrifices and risk their lives even. Now we play the blame game the immigrants are the blame the blacks, gays, muslims are the problem or the enemy. There are very few who are really aware of who the real enemy is. I like your optimism though, cutie.

i wonder how many heads this is going to go way over

wow ! An objective scientific interaction abstraction and analysis of the "system" and an impeachment of passive public apathy !
( kewl )
Actively collectively leverage on !!!

p.s. --when you begin the essay with trying to define the nature of "abstractions",...well, as a Platonist I have some issues...........

ah fuck it. Platonic metaphysics never did function well for politics,......thats why we have no friends......uhm well,....the catholic church,....SORT OF,......
MAKE THAT "No SANE friends".

Well writ ! Has kind of a "Max Headroom" video edgy edit quality to !

I hate when people say that, it needs to stop.

Good Post !