Rash of arson fires continues, spreads across wider area ! Just guessing, but looks like a disgruntled citizen's work!

It's quite possibly the beginning of chaos!

Why can't it just be arsonists with no political understanding at all? These people, or this person, may not know the difference between a Republican and a Democrat. It could be they could not care less about the 99% or the 1%. If they were trying to make a political statement, I would think their targeting would be a little better. I'm willing to bet they just like to watch things burn.

Probably so Jim, a disturbed individual or individuals. We will probably find out soon, I can't imagine them getting away with it for long.

How odd.
When I made the same assertion here was your response:
"Really? Your not understanding the futility of the system overall my friend. It's a disgruntled citizen or citizens that have something on their minds, and whatever it is, it isn't normal. This kind of stuff could easily happen all over the U.S. and it will only get worse!"

It's OK.
I am new to your little fish bowl here so I understand.
Any comments that go against the grain of community sentiment is usually only accepted by a known member and not a newbie.

And I dont mind that you flag my comments either.
Although censorship used to be un- American.
Used to be back in the day people had thicker skin and could take constructive criticism.

First of all, I don't FLAG people's comments (Again you don't know me) second being a Government spy and making statements like if they were so disturbed they should be fire bombing Government sites like you said early on in the discussion, is obviously a fishing expedition.

Gov. spy!
LMAO!
You are a hoot dude!

And yeah you flagged me.
I am Gov. spy remember?
I have software for that..
LOL!

You can speculate, so can I. :)

Only difference is i did not speculate about you personally only your opinion.
Apparently if no one agrees with you they are a Government drone.
If I were to speculate about you i would say you are delusional with paranoid tendency's.
But that would be rude of me to do on a public forum.

Very funny, have a good day my friend! :)

Thank you for stepping out from behind your charade and showing your true colors.

Why yes One Trick Pony, good luck reeling them in!

Maybe someday they will get the message!

The web site was freezing up, mistake! :)

Oh, OK. Whether this is a disgruntled citizen or not, it's not right. It's dangerous and innocent people could get hurt....not to mention the property damage. The disgruntled citizen should channel their anger in the same way the Occupy movement is doing. These random fires are an easy way for the 1% to blame the 99% and demonize our efforts.

In the whole scheme of things it really doesn't matter, just another brick in the wall!

I see your point, kenny. It's kind of moot at this time. We will be demonized whether we deserve to be or not. The MSM and the right wing talking heads will make sure that their corporate overlords are served.

And we will serve their heads on a platter. :)

No arguement here. :)

In the article it said police were looking for a 1990s white and tan lexus 300, granted, that's old by today's standards but my first thought was it was someone with money doing this to punish the 99% for speaking out.

I did see that mentioned in the article and that could very well be, wolfess, no matter what year that lexus is.

If that is a possibility all I can think of is that that means OWS really is starting to scare the 1%, and they are doing this to make the repteatard automatons blame the 99% enough to go after them.

It must Occur to you , that is exactly why it might be happening ? In so many cities where the 99% have organized , it would provide justification for past fascist tactics . If they catch them , who they catch , will be very enlightening .

Just they kind of they they would encourage some unstable person to do , domestic terrorist set up . Typical .

They are doing that kind of shit right here in WI to disrupt the recall efforts.

I would not put it past these 1% scum.

And I imagine if they do accuse someone of this, a story will be "leaked" to the corporate media that the alleged "perp" is somehow connected with OWS. It will be the equivalent of the 50's and 60's "Communist Plot" inquisition.

Who said it was justified?

Reading through the comments thus far, it appears to me that it is an underlying sentiment covertly expressed . . . imnsho

Covertly many things seem to be justified like 50,000 Americans dying from no healthcare a year! Maybe things like this are going to wake up America!

The UK has begun to hear grumblings the last 10 years or so and have had proposals to change their health care system to resemble ours, only to be shot down. . . and you don’t keep up with Canadian health care policy, do you?
Most European health care models are failing and near collapse and searching for more effective health care and that’s exactly what’s been happening in Canada. . . You know, the standard bearer of health care systems for all leftists.

You do know that in Canada the fastest growing segment of the healthcare field are fee-for-service clinics, right?
Do a little bit of research and you’ll find that’s exactly what is happening. But the numbers are growing. . .
It constantly amazes me that progressives steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that Govt regulated health care is a sure way to kill off the very service and care that only free enterprise competition can provide.

Really? Your using that old argument? You can't be serious! Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Germany, seem to provide quite good healthcare for all their citizens too mention a few. But with the 1% raping the shit out of our country you probably haven't noticed our so called Healthcare system is a joke!

Most of the countries you use as examples are the exceptions that are even now trending toward change, even they realise that entitlement care is unsustainable, as I've said, the leftist community steadfastly refuse to re-examine better alternatives. . . especially those where compounding debt upon the whole of productive society to carry the dead weight of the "entitlement class" (i.e. sycophants [aka losers] of the nanny state) is not only irrational, but suicidal. . . but hey, what the hell should be expected from idiots that can't even come up with a national budget inside of 3 years... hmmm?

Society's dead weight is at the top! The 1%.

The 1% that pay the taxes that supports the entitlements of the 53% that pay no taxes are dead weight? . . rr-ight!

You know somewhere along the way you have been brainwashed and I have my suspicions where. So Believe it or not but 30 years of reduced taxes on the wealthy is over, you just don't know it. Poor fool!

What the hell does this have to do with arson fires in California? One helluva tangent you flew off on there.

Obviously you are being paid to post this drivel, otherwise why would you even bother coming on a site that you disagree with? Be gone foxmaton; we progressives have no use for your whorish lies!

It's OUR government, Only With Sincerity TAKE. IT. BACK!

Typical republican crap, 30 years of tax cuts are coming to an end, we have a debt you know accumulated by not taxing the rich. Take a look at the Eisenhower tax rate and try just a little to use your own head and realize why your group is destined for the guillotine.
Hell you might even save your own head if you wake up soon enough.:)

I've been here on current observing the depth of stupidity of the liberal mind for going on 3 years now. . . and it never fails to tickle me when one such as yourself gets upset that anyone dares to interrupt leftist Utopian flower throwing with even a minute bit of cognitive rationality that challenges your party mantra.

Yes, it is OUR country, being sold out by corrupt govt, left and right, and I'll be damned if I'll lay down and let a socialist band of thieves steal it. . . and damned straight, I'll do my best to take it back!

GUILLOTINE :-) ooh Kenny I love it when you talk dirty!

Why is so difficult to grasp that debt is the means which the masses are enslaved?

It isn't the amount of tax that is extracted from the public sector - rich or poor, but the irresponsible fiduciary SPENDING of tax revenue that's the problem, why is that so got-damned hard for socialist to figure out?

I'll try to keep that in mind :)

It's quite obvious you haven't looked at the tax rate I suggested you look at, because you didn't understand. But it does not surprise me, after my many years of trying to point out the mere fact we need to go back to pre-Reagan tax rates (When there wasn't any debt) ordinary family's could survive. Put a couple of kids through college have decent medical care, a new car every couple of years, a house, but the Republicans truly fucked up the country. All the time blaming the Liberals, while demanding more tax cuts. The result will be something you can not imagine, and you'll be lucky to survive your own greed! :)

worked with some canadians last month asked about their health care system .they had no complaints every provence pays for its own health care also talked about there goverment they run a five party system kind of neat they laughed at what americans think of their health care system misinformation is what they feed you .cant believe everything you read.you are correct about goverment running our healthcare not a good idea but it
doesnt work as it is

most of the 1% dont pay any taxes its all the middle class that pays for the entitlements

take a look at the history of debt the stupid liberals account for a small portion of it
the conservative war machine is the cause of most of it

Here's the data from the tax foundation as sourced from the IRS

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/27713.html

The damned thing is, though it was the republicans who spent the money to fund the hosts of entitlement programs as passed by democrats, when there wasn't any debt, effectively spending more taxes than coming in. . .
. . . and at what point do you think that Govt. has the right to impose ever increasing taxes upon ANY citizen simply because corrupt politicians promised more than is rationally responsible, then increasing the nat'l debt with unfunded entitlement mandates for further posterity entitlements, then borrowing against it again and again, even further compounding the debt.
. . . then with a democratic majority literally doubling the national debt inside of 3 years, for the sake of the illusion of benevolence of an altruistic Govt, when there isn't any other means to fund this burgeoning maniacal debt than to extort even more money from the citizens through class warfare and ever increasing taxes. . .

Quit trying to feed this us vs them bull-shit, when each side, left and right, have been pandering to their own self centered interests.
. . . and to think this isn't so blatantly obvious is simply ludicrous.

I am a Canadian. And a member of the health sciences. No, their is not a growth in fee-for-service clinics as you describe them. The growth in Canadian health care is for support workers and stay at home health care. However, we do have groups trying to dismantle our health care system. And I will give you three guesses as to what political leanings they have. Fee-for-service in Canada does not mean the patient pays. It was a restructuring of how the government pays, an enhancement of communication between service providers and a better understanding of how services should be provided in rural areas etc. If a Canadian wants to pay for health services they still have to go to the U.S. It would be impossible to take universal health care away from Canadians.

Then you're familiar with this assessment?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090525173432.htm

How sad to have been fed a steady diet of right wing bullshit, I suppose I should feel sorry for people like you, but I don't! You had your chance, but just the very thought of you squirming somehow makes me feel good! The seeds you have sown by the help of your own hands, will actually be your own demise. Oh I know you loved the idea that your kind was so superior, and losers at the bottom deserved to die without medical help from the greatest healthcare system in the world, or to starve over the crumbs left by your kind. It's going to be a different America over the next few years, and maybe you'll get lucky and escape retribution. You can have that little hope I suppose.

Yes, the American government running your health care could be a bad idea. Why not contract it out to some of our retired Canadian politicians so you can get it right?

Yes I am. It was a study to find out how government health care dollars could be better spent. No Canadian pays for services out of pocket. Read the study again and show me where it says Canadians pay out of pocket. Notice that the difference is between the straight pay-for-service model, and the enhanced pay-for-service model. In either case, the government pays. Capitation means the government pays per patient, as apposed to paying for unit time which is salary based. This is my profession 2hellnwait. I know what this stuff means.

C'mon kennymo . . gitt'er on with the good old woe is me victims of society crap. . .

Are you attempting to make me feel guilty about snivelling welfare sycophants that are and have been taken care of from cradle to grave and think that they're entitled to a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage and a roof over their head simply because they exist?

Let me tell you, true story. . . I've been to the emergency room with a coronary attack, no insurance, and no means to pay.

Where there is will, there is a way. . . something that now the hand out entitlement generation (and apparently you) are unable to understand.

I'm alive now 4 years later with a stint in my heart. . . yeah, I know that I'm one of the lucky ones, but throughout the years, I've always been able to receive care whether I could pay or not. . . go figure huh?

Sounds like a plan, let the academia and intelligentsia and bureaucrats who've no practical administrative or applicable business experience fully take over. . . I mean they KNOW what they're doing, right?

Well good for you, somehow you've made it. Me myself have never been on welfare, I've had a job all my life except for a year of unemployment that I paid for by working as long as I did. But even as I looked for work for that year all I heard from the right wingers since I was on unemployment I must be lazy. They even had the nerve to say workers shouldn't even have that benefit, what a sick lot they have become. Together we stand and as you can see the selfish and greedy can't be happy knowing all of us are being taken care of. Enough is never enough for these sick greedy bastards, they have to distort reality so they can feel better than the rest. Good luck defending your turf, wherever that is, cause the people are making a comeback and they have finally awoke!

Our most recent policy paper sates "Fee-for-service has been the principle method of payment for physicians since the inception of the universal medical insurance program across Canada in the 1960s". You have misinterpreted what fee-for-service means.

The 'people' pay, in waiting for care and in taxes. . . no service is free.
The taxes paid by myself and fellow citizens paid for my care. . . it wasn't free simply because the bill wasn't paid by me.

I now live in Hawaii, and here mandated health care with fixed costs and regulatory controls have driven doctors away from the islands in droves, and I've been waiting 7 weeks just to see my Dr because the patient wait list is so long, that the only means for care that is not immediately critical is tended to based on getting in line, and you think that you're not experiencing the same thing in Canada?

I think I know what I am experiencing. I recently had a slip and fall and pulled my calf muscle. It took me two hours to see a doctor and 4 days to see my family practitioner. Individuals making $20,000 or less pay no health care taxes.

Peace. . . we'll meet again.

So are suggesting people with no intelligence or education should run things? If you need a lawyer do make sure he didn't go to law school? When you need a dentist, do you call on a neighbor, or do you go to one of those damn college graduates? I bet you would not even get your car fixed by someone who did not have a mechanics license. Bureaucrats I don't have much use for. Most of them are conservatives.

I too have been affiliated with the health care industry (geriatric care) for over 20 years and I know that 'ffs' increases costs and time whereupon quantity of care becomes more prevalent, leaving convenience over quality of care. . . or the health professionals leave for greener pastures. . . and they do.

I can not argue with the problems of higher costs. But that is exactly what the studies you have cited were designed to address. Fee-for-service is how our government pays fees to doctors for services rendered. These studies have been going on since 2001. They have nothing to do with Canadians paying out of pocket.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. . . intelligentsia that are so ideally minded but administratively inept, impractically naive and with not a clue at how to operate a business besides throw someone else money at it hoping that eventually they'll be able to make it work. . . hell, take a look at Medicaid and Medicare today, they may be relatively successful at providing care. . . but at what cost? . . eventually it is unsustainable.

Unfortunately, intent does not necessarily equate to or guarantee positive results.

But what about your contention that we were moving to a user pay system. You got that so wrong, what else are you misinterpreting?

Does not mean positive results aren't possible either.

There is in fact a move to private pay care, there are a large number of people who leave their countries social care in search for quicker and better care, are you saying that is not so?

Having no faith in Govt bureaucracy, and given their miserable track record, I consider that the equivalence of a fail.

An article in the Toronto Star Monday October 31st, 2011, tells us the health care costs in Canada are going down. This is a direct result of the the studies you cited earlier. I should point out, the Toronto Star is considered a Liberal publication.

No. I am not saying that is not so. As a matter of fact I already said if Canadians want to pay for health care they have to leave the country. Because you can't pay for it here.

I would love to carry on with this conversation but I have to go. Perhaps we can pick up on this or another topic later. What do you say?

Hmm. . . "Primary health care is facing serious concerns internationally, including whether it is a viable model in some areas. Physician shortages, uneven distribution of access to care, and large gaps between guideline-recommended care and actual delivery are key issues. *In Canada, almost 4 million people lack a family doctor and more than 2 million have problems getting immediate care."
. . . quoted from the link that I posted to you earlier, am I missing something here?

Because Canadians who want immediate care can't pay for private care and must leave the country, and there is a claim of decline in health care costs, don't you suppose that suggests and further casts a shadow on the effectiveness of your social health care system? . . I do.

I welcome civil debate. . . stay well!

No. Because the rich are doing it out of convenience. The average Canadian would not even consider it. And I never hear one of my fellow Canadians complain about our health care system. Never. As a matter of fact, we had a national poll in 2005 to find out who the greatest Canadian that ever lived was. We Canadians overwhelmingly chose Tommy Douglas. The man who gave us our health care system. And like I said, I have to go, but I look forward to conversations with you in the future.

read about your sources the tax foundation has no credibility as with all news sources
if you think for a minute corporations and i am talking the top 500 pay their share think again why do you think they move offshore corperations along with our goverment have screwed america by offshoring our jobs for more profiet and you think they are going to pay tax on this

hi jim
good to hear from canada no system is perfect but ours is in need of repair

Yes, indeed. Peace to you!

The Tax foundation has no credibility? . . you're kidding, right? . . I suppose it must be because the data is sourced from the hated IRS.

I don't think that corporations pay enough taxes, but why do corporations move operations offshore? . . because of prohibitive regulations, and what is so commonly ignored is that today corporations are competing in global markets where costs must be contained in order to compete.

I suggest that you study cause and effect before concluding that it is all the corporations fault and stop the blame game.

corporations moved over seas for cheap labor in order to make more money.it had nothing to do with regulations.in the end its all about money.i do believe we have far to many regulations in many areas i am not going to change your mind nor am i trying to.
lets hope we as americans can find some common ground.i myself find both parties
at fault for the problems our country faces

That is true. . . moving production off-shore is about making more money, however to say that onerous costs of operations stateside have not been a major contributing factor is simply denying the predominant underlying causes. . . and like you, I too fault both parties for the chaos we are now enduring, and I also am seeking common ground with fellow citizens who realize that any plan, no matter how grand it may be, is absolutely useless if good old fashion common sense is not applied. . . I believe that for the most part, we are on the same page here.

especially those where compounding debt upon the whole of productive society to carry the dead weight of the "entitlement class"

You mean the 1% that think they are entitled to all the money they inherited or stole out right or pilfered from their workers (the real productive members of society) as they skimp on safety in their work places and any decency in regard to things like child labor.

Look we all know your neck deep in the coruption and greed of your masters, for a pittance you sell out your fellow man, and in the end we will round you up with the rest of the 1% criminals robbing our children of their birthright to a prosperous nation where the titleless aristocracy is no longer allowed to use their ill gotten obscene wealth to keep others from reaching their fortunes or dictating what those fortunes will be. And before you ask who will dictate this belive it or not it is posible to raise our children to cherish this civil society more than their personal desire to have more than every one and keep it that way. the ones we cant well they are criminal to their fellow man and shall be treated as such.

probably the same reason its so hard for a facist like you to see he is an A-Hole.

Tell you what, in the interest of equality, lets share our incomes 50/50. . . since I only live on a retirement income of less than a grand a month, it may very well be a hell of a great deal for one of us. . . ya think?
. . . although it probably would be a bad deal for me because undoubtedly you are among the many who believe you're entitled to what you've not contributed simply because you exist, and are most likely already a sycophant of the welfare "entitlement" class.

Thats a definite part of it!

Either way he was or they are disgruntled! :)