Death of 15 year old at Los Angeles Rave Renews Calls for Rave Bans

Isn't there the concern of too much water? When you add the fact that one of the side effects (of E) is water reduction? They run the risk of de-hydration, water poisoning, and overheating of the brain.

They did very much so advertise water, it was shown she died from water intoxication.

"Doctors said "her sodium, electrolytes were so low that when she started replacing them so quickly [with cold water], ecstasy messes up your body's ability to process that, so it threw her body out of whack," said Keith."

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/30/local/la-me-rave-death-20100630

this is bull - it is not the job of the people putting on ANY show to be liable for the actions of the people attending. I can't sue the local theatre because some girl hit me in the bathroom, and I can't get compensation if a kid bites me in the local Starbucks.

Don't get into the mindset that blame in this situation belongs anywhere but on the head of that girl. SHE chose to buy/accept those drugs, and SHE chose take them. Raves are not evil, and Ecstasy is also not evil, they are not to blame here. As a mother, I encourage my children to go out and do new things - but they also know that they will have to take ownership of their actions, and accept the consequences. Blaming everyone else for this girl's death is irresponsible and leaves no lesson to be learned. Her choices, and her's alone, created the situation.

The point is the promoters know that drugs are part of the culture, therefore they should not have promoted the event to children...it should have been an adults only event. The reason they promoted it to children is because of profit. They are negligent in protecting the youth from the potential of exposure to all sorts of dangers present at raves.

You are so full of crap device80...the parents did not make their child go to the event. You don't know what the hell you are talking about. Just because you want to fill your mind with crap doesn't justify that event promoters are being irresponsible for inviting teens to an event that clearly should be an ADULTS ONLY event.

Ecstasy is an inseparable part of the culture and children should not be allowed. The true criminals are the promotes, the State of California for allowing the promoter to invite children, and the city and county of Los Angeles for being complicit and shirking their responsibility to protect the youth.

then answer me this idiot, where did she get $150 for the ticket? and how would the promoters be to blame? bahahaha... b/c they did there job and promoted the event? how many adults do you know that go to raves? The only adults at a rave are security and dj's and it's there job to keep the peace and keep the music going, and obviously no parent would "make there child go to the event." ur obviously living in a fantasy world if you think the mother had no idea her daughter was going to a rave, hell at 15 I wouldn't be suprised if she drove her there. but I will keep an eye out for an ADULTS ONLY rave and if anything pops up you can buy my ticket for me and maybe bring some drugs that come from the dirt b/c there "way better than those that come from a lab" your words verbatim..... and quit blame-shifting, it's not a good look for anyone

You are punk straight up...you are a human devoid of any conscience or rational thought all you care about is your drugs and your psychedelic experience of altered mind states. No wonder this country is in the toilet...you are helping to create the world of the future.

The promoters are ecstasy pushers and all they care about is making a profit, they give a rats ass about safety, sanity, or good judgment. That is obviously reflected in your comments...defending the indefensible.

This rave had the minimum age at 16...I think that was a bad choice. 18 should be the minimum age...the age you become a legal adult.

From my perspective, as having been an avid raver, this is one of the big ails of the culture. Huge massives.
They're doing it because a festival that big has no choice but to become 100% business. At that size, the organizational necessities explode, right alongside running costs. Cutting out the 16-17 demographic is a massive hit against their attendance and profits, so they strive to keep it.

Unfortunately, it's that same demographic that causes the most problems. And not just problems like what happened to this poor girl.

I suspect that one way to cut down instances like this (rare though they are) is to keep these parties limited in size. Electric daisy, and other such yearly massives are simply too big for their own good, too big for the culture's good, and too big for the sake of safety. By limiting size, overhead is more limited, more personal care can go in, and they wont feel so pressured to cram in as many teenagers as they can. This may allow them to stay 18+.

One way you can tell this took place in a somewhat large city!!! You ask kids around here what rave is,none of them have a clue at all!!! Around here kids that age just listen whatever auto tune rap & Lady Gaga nonsense radio plays

15-16 is definitely too young to be attending raves, you're far too impressionable and willing to do anything to be cool. however, at San Francsico's biggest massive this year there were two death, both mid-20s males...

Yeah, that's a real shame. It takes getting used to, just like they'd gotten used to the drug, but you can have a great time, and sink into the vibe when you're 100% sober. I have gone to countless raves this way, and I wish I wasn't 'too old' to still be doing them... But alas...

However, IMO, alcohol is worse than E.

wait till they find out the serotonin production capability of the brain has been destroyed by the e and they cant get happy anymore.

I would have to agree with that wholeheartedly...drugs that come from the dirt is way better than those that come from a lab.

I think that is an overly simplistic view. There are plenty of counterexamples.

Utterly true. There are plenty of dirt-derived chemicals that can give a high, but are cripplingly or fatally dangerous.
We take them for granted because it's old knowledge. We forget about them.

You'd have to give me an example. My experiences have been great with anything natural. It's the synthetic drugs that lead to addiction and do the most harm to your body. Too much of anything is no good. I guess I would give you heroine as an example of a bad drug, never had the desire to jump in that swamp though.

It is a dangerous and ignorant assumption that simply because something comes out of the "dirt" that it is not bad for you.

it is an equally ignorant assumption that things are 'bad' for you just because your government or part of society tells you they are.

Very well said, sir. Very well said.

That's another thing! I know this is way in the future, but instead of trying to scare kids about staying away all these drugs (man, have you seen some of these insane commercials?!) teach them how to take them right, what to do in case of emergencies but still recommend that people stay away from drugs! Teach kids the precautions, and how to be safe while on the drugs. In fact, I might even believe all this anti-drugs propaganda might just make kids want to try them the more. Truth always works the best!

Lastly, You will never be able to band raves and electronic dance music. It has exploded to much. If weed and acid were the drugs of the 60s, if cocaine was the drugs of the 70s, this generation is definitely the generation of ecstasy and raves. Don't fight it! REGULATE! MAKE IT SAFE!

Thanks for your thoughts. Banning is not a solution, but raising awareness and the age limit is.

I am not saying to ban all raves, I am saying that raves should be for adults, not children.

Seems like this story has touched a raw nerve in your psyche, why are you being so defensive? Did you organize the rave? Are you in danger of being charge for capital murder? Perhaps you should look at your own personal issues because you are turning this story into something personal by attacking me, the family who lost their baby girl, instead of looking at the systematic failures that lead to kids being exposed to a drug culture.

You are coming across now as being hysterical.

Also you are working the "blame the victim" angle that is to typical of the "guilty".

...methinks he protesteth too much...stands out like the proverbial, J...I choose to ignore a long time ago...once again, I'm so sorry, and gutted by your loss...and as soon as we get these pariahs off the streets, the better...I'll probably receive a litany of compassionless dribble from this, which will just make his comments more disgraceful...over and out...

I don't think they new she was going to the rave, it wasn't a concern because she was 15 and the event was supposed to be 16 and over, but the venue wasn't checking ID's. If the parent's had known they would have opposed her going.

Yeah, I would support that ban...banning war altogether.

You are conflating underground raves with permitted concerts. There was a ton of security at this event. Your comment on sexual assault is well-taken, however. The lesson is *don't count on security to protect you from everything*. Use the buddy system at *any* party, concert, or the like. That goes double for places where visibility is poor. Watch out for your friends and make sure they watch out for you. Don't leave drinks unattended or accept drinks from people you don't know (it is not even unreasonable to not accept open drinks from people you *do* know). All this goes double for females. Use reasonable precautions and have a good time. Water is your friend. Also, if you *are* partying, stay with your group and don't overdo it.

Foundation for a Drug-Free World should rename itself Foundation for a Dream World. Do try to live in the *real* world.

I never called for a ban on drugs, but I do feel that as a society we must protect our children from exposure to drugs through events that combine adults with children in a venue where drug use is to be expected and is part of the culture.

I think you make a very reasonable and valid point here. When you throw unsupervised minors into what is essentially both a concert and a party, problems are inevitable. I would have no problem with an 18+ rule for concerts, or alternatively, an 18+ unless accompanied by a parent or guardian (*not* your 18-year old buddy) rule.

Thanks, I find after reading your further comments that you are being level headed and not as reactionary as I first thought. It is possible to find common ground.

Thank you. You seem fairly reasonable yourself, albeit (understandably) angry. Common ground is good, and I am glad we found some.

The only fact that is relevant is that their minor child was at an event she should not have attended and was unsupervised by a responsible adult. They are guilty of a lack of proper parental supervision, whether they were ignorant of her going or were complicit in it. I understand that this hurts to hear, but it is the truth.

Your trying to throw all the responsibility on the parent, while surreptitiously conceding that ID's should have been checked. Your minimizing the responsibility of the promoters.

Kids will find ways to go where they want, you can't stop them. Ultimately, it is up to the bouncers at the door to decide who is and will get into a rave. I've been to a few raves myself and have gotten the opportunity to see first hand how many people are doing hardcore drugs. I think people need to be checked at the door for these so that things like this don't happen.

There is nothing surreptitious about it. I have stated multiple times that the promoters and event staff are 100% responsible for checking IDs. Normally, when events of this size are organized, a security company is used for the door. If they were told to check IDs and failed to do so, then they should be held responsible. If the promoter/organizer failed to implement appropriate measures to prevent underage attendees, they should be held responsible.

That said, the parents *still* hold complete responsibility over their child and their child's whereabouts, and they failed in their duties.

That will not be successful. They can't even keep drugs out of prison, and they check in your ass there. You cannot find pills on a person if they hide them.

"I've been to a few raves myself and have gotten the opportunity to see first hand how many people are doing hardcore drugs. I think people need to be checked at the door for these so that things like this don't happen."

If you've been to a rave, then you'd know that they do check for drugs - EVERY bag, pocket, purse, and container that a person is carrying is checked, bar none. EVERY person is patted down, and people are turned away if they have anything that looks like it could be drugs or drug paraphernalia. It borders on being invasive the way they search people, and they do what they can to ensure that these things do not go in.
At the end of the day, the person responsible for this poor girl's death is the poor girl. She made a dangerously bad choice, but in the end she alone bears the responsibility. We can go after the venue, the attendees, her parents - hell, let's go after our permissive society that apparently didn't teach her right from wrong - but it's still her choice that led to these consequences.

Of course it shouldn't. I do not see anyone promoting it to children. The mere promoting of a concert does not constitute promoting MDMA. There are plenty of people who go to these concerts that do not drugs at all.

Raves should not be promoted to anyone under the age of 18.

Yeah, I don't know which raves you've been to, but around me almost all the people there are on drugs.

Why not? If people like that music and want to go and listen to it? It's just like going to see your favorite band play because you like them.

That is certainly arguable. I am not against reasonable age restrictions for concerts. You *do* realize that a restriction on raves would be a restriction on general admission concerts in general, yes? Do you support that?

I would agree that most are. I would also state that most attendees of classic rock concerts I have been to were also on drugs. That does not change my statement: there are plenty of people who go to these concerts that do not do drugs at all.

That is a good point, certainly indicative of further discussion.

Yes, that is 100% agreed, and *that* failure is 100% on the back of the promoters. I also agree that it is worth discussing whether or not minors should be allowed at concerts at all without adult supervision.

Jubal, please try not to be so ignorant. If raves were a "cocktail of death" for minors, this single death would not be standing out as it does.

...you seem to be expressing a lot of internalisation here...but that's your prerogative...and if I'm a middle aged prude, I'll wear that label with pride...because it's about time these so called raves were properly policed...promoters don't give a bugger, they're there just for the almighty bloody buck...and, you better believe it...

Of course promoters are out there to make a buck. They risk a great deal of money setting these things up. They are a for-profit venture just like any other concert. What do you consider "properly policed"?

Another person who is justifying giving ecstasy to children by marginalizing its effects. I wouldn't want a person like you around my kids...that is for sure.

I'm not trying to justify anything and, in fact, am well aware of the dangers of MDMA and am only advocating responsibility. That being said most deaths assosiated with it's use are from dehydration and are very much preventable. As I said, anyone attending a rave that is under the age of 18, should be accompanied by an adult so that tradegies such as this do not occur. Anyone consuming MDMA should be aware of it's effects and use it with a reliable friend who can guide them through the experience. And just to play devil's advocate; I find it difficult to believe that anyone attending an event of this size, with ticket prices being up to $100, would have no idea of what was going on there or have never done anything like it in the past. It can't even be said, with any certainty, that the drugs were bought at the event.

Lu7cky, you seem to be a voice of wisdom here. Get a clue, people: many kids are going to try drugs. Educate them, but don't bullshit them. "All drugs will kill you" may have worked on dumb kids prior to the rise of the internet (at least until they tried cannabis and discovered you were lying). Now, your best bet is proper education and proper supervision. If your kid is going out, make sure you know their friends and that they are using the buddy system (especially if they are female).

You seem to have a problem with strawman arguments. You also seem to be ignorant about the effects of MDMA. Perhaps you should post less and read more.

It's just that I've heard all of these arguments before. The Baltimore/DC area was a rave mecca for much of the 90's and I was able to experience, first hand, a music scene solely devoted to advancing the principles of love, peace and understanding. The dark side to this was drugs, sex and the anything goes attitude of the devoted. A few bad apples and a news reporter with no regard for anything except sensationalism nearly crippled an industry that had taken years to build, put honest people out of work and sidelined musicians and dj's already struggling in the midst of changing musical tastes and technoligies. Now here we are, a decade later and the powers that be are still trying to dispose of something they will never understand. Kids will stiil want to get high, kids will still want to dance and love and enjoy life. This will never change; it didn't at the end of the jazz era, it didn't end with the close of the summer of love, it didn't end when disco died and won't should the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum never hold an electronic music festival again.

...yes, you do need to go there, as it is happening...but, spoken like a true promoter...and the use of foul language only shows how lacking you are in more ways than one...

Your justifying a drug culture that promotes drugs to kids...sad.

The parents may have some responsibility granted...I have always told my nieces and nephews about the dangers of going to any party and drinking or eating anything that they themselves did not purchase, open the container themselves, or mixed and prepared themselves from the source. Don't accept anything you aren't absolutely sure about, be very aware of your surroundings and trust no one.

This young lady did not take or ingest what she was given knowingly, she was slipped a "micky". That is tantamount to murder. The promoters should not be allowed to conduct parties like this for minors where drugs and alcohol are going to be on the menu. Children should not be given free access to drugs in an environment that is very much associated with drugs.

If adults want to take the chance of ending their own lives by taking MDMA/Ecstacy...then have at it, but leave children alone.

children experiment whether the parents likes it or not

Your warnings to your family are quite sensible. They are examples of what *all* children should be taught before they reach an age where they will be attending parties. On the other hand, what evidence do you have that this girl was "slipped a micky"? MDMA is quite foul tasting, so it isn't like someone could slip even a moderate dose into one's drink unnoticed. I find it much more likely that her irresponsible parents had no idea what their child was into. The parents are *primarily* responsible for their child's supervision and safety, and they obviously failed in that.

I strongly suspect you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about. I have been to a great many parties, and I have never seen drugs handed out like candy to adults *or* kids unless it was by their friends (these things cost money). You are really fooling yourself if you think that a kid who ingests a pill at a party is "unsuspecting." They might not know what they are getting (in which case they were likely not taught drug safety), but they certainly know they are taking a drug.