Women who don't submit to husbands are to blame for domestic violence, says Baptist scholar

Ricky84 - That's the only thing that made me a little angry about MLK. He was so conservative in his views, that sometimes he sided with the conservative base on some issues (such as homosexuals, even interracial marriage, & the relationship between church and state). The same conservative base that was against equality at the time!

Malcolm X was very critical of MLK's baptist roots and beliefs and felt that MLK was playing the "white man's game" and trying to use their (white's) religion to pacify blacks in America at the time. (something I don't wholly believe in, but do agree with to a certain degree).

Some have accused Obama of the very same thing. It is very difficult to justify how one who has been subject to discrimination and hate, could be a part of a church that has preached both things since it's very inception.

I'm not one to generalize one's beliefs, because as you stated, not all Baptists are "bad" or "inept". However, I do believe that religion itself has always bred bigots, hate, segregation, and hypocrisy.

P.S.
Shadowtrekker - The bible does talk about beating your wife... you obviously haven't read it. It's funny that the people who defend it, rarely even know what's in it or how to interpret it properly.

I really shouldn’t even bother with to you Crob. It’s stupid, I know, but I REALLY hate bigotry. I also can’t stand it when someone supposes, based on my reply to a thread, that I’m in some sort of emotionally distressed state. Hypocrisy comes in many forms, but it’s especially virulent when in the discussion of a self serving misinterpretation of a religious text the very tactic is ultimately vindicated by an atheist in his attempt to frame himself as the better man.

That being said I really don’t have anything else to say to you. To go on any further would be a waste of time.

Mafioso I agree that religious ideologies can and do lead individuals to commit and justify disgusting acts. I just do not think that religion can solely be blamed for the problems of the world. Even religious wars are waged for more than one motive.

Take for instance Ayatollah Khomeini, he never accomplished his goal of raising a jihad against our perverse American ways. On the hand Bin Laden had no problem rallying troops to drive the US out of the middle east. So in one case Khomeini failed to recruit enough die hard religious freaks while Bin Laden appealed to Arabs with something they all could agree on.

I can say as far as Obama and the MLK comparison goes there is a fundamental difference between the two. MLK was black and Obama is not. This is the thing that irks the hell out of me with this presidential race. Way to many people are focusing on a fraudulent label instead of the real issues like his policy. Barak Obama will not be the first black president of the United States. He won’t even be the first multiracial president of the US.

Obama will be, plain and simple, the darkest president of the US. That’s really how far our nation has come.

heydayjr, well of corse his wife acted like the most perfect loving wife possible. Because she knew she'd get a good smack up side the head if she didn't!! After all, it would be his christian obligation to "correct" her.

Brockie the only one who needs a good slap upside the head is you... but then maybe I'm wrong because you've not only met them, you KNOW them oh so so well. Sick mfer.

"More and more I am thinking religion is for the uneducated man...God makes this okay, god makes that okay, stop using your freaking faith as an excuse." --Bigdog_mike

so it's a year ago...but I wonder if people are really THIS STUPID to believe the Christian scriptures actually provide such excuse? Heh. They make the pathetic mistake of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As with all other religions, including yours Bigdog', even as with politics and LIFE, you can't always help other's application of ANY tenets you could hold dear...

why do you think the bible belt has such problems with abuse, teen pregnancy, divorce, STD's and on and on?

I guess this just goes to show what the southern baptist priorities are.

Read the article before you respond.

exactly!! right on, i agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!! also when mary magdalene was about to be stoned, what did Jesus say? He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. Now this woman was living in sin, and Christ had compassion on her, He was not going to allow these men to hurt her. But now this idiot so called scholar comes along and says it is because they will not submit to their husbands so they deserve it. That is trivial in comparison to what Mary Magdalene had done. If Jesus did not raise a hand to her, what on earth does any man think would give him the right to do it to anyone, much less his own wife?

You guys realize you can email him right? He's over here http://www.sbts.edu/Academics/Faculty/Theology/Bruce_Ware.aspx

It doesn't sound like he was justifying... did you read the article? because you just did you're belief system that you're a chauvinist of a huge disfavor.

Hallelujah! Another soul saved.

Do not confuse things. You are no different than this "preacher" talking about allowing to get beaten.

Religion is one thing, people is another. The bible talks about the Man being the head of the house, and this is a deep conversation like to have it here.

The Bible talks even more strongly about violence, hurting people and even less hurting a women for a "sin".

Do Not sensationalize.

thank you petarro for bringing a much better balance to the "discussion" here... i hate these idiot comments pretending to be the sound voice of reason...

they misconstrue what's being said here for personal prejudice and utter stupidity, denial, believing their own delusions.

violence, is NOT advocated in scripture as a healthy means to a relationship with a woman you call your wife.

In fact, the bible states CLEARLY to LOVE your wives as you love yourself and as Christ loves his church...as if it was his OWN body!!!

how stupid these people are!!! how twisted and perverted and sickening to the point that it's inciteful, indecent and inhuman, blaming religion for their own stupidity and darkened minds.

How quickly the two of you, both men I presume, come to the defense of a system that desires the submission of women as less than equals. That alone speaks volumes.

But I digress...

What is there to "sensationalize" petarro?

What is there to "misconstrue" echoz?

"And husbands on their parts, because they're sinners, now respond to that threat to their authority either by being abusive, which is of course one of the ways men can respond when their authority is challenged" ~Bruce Ware, Denton Bible Church

This idiot (and laughably goofy-looking) preacher presents his interpretation of the Bible's teachings to a congregation of followers. In this paragraph, he basically says that men can beat the hell out of their wives if they are not adequately submissive...not because they are cowardly, insecure, assholes...but because they are "sinners" and it is God's will that women should know their place.

Don't get your feelings hurt lovebirds. Wondering how many women went home that evening and got their "asses beat" is not a blanket statement concerning all religions. It was a statement concerning the men and women of that particular congregation who are apparently being told this nonsense on a week to week basis.

"What you may have read on one blog or another of a sermon I preached June 22 has been horribly misrepresented by many bloggers. I can't imagine legitimizing abuse for any reason, including however one's wife might act sinfully toward her husband. I have a cherished wife of 30 years and two precious daughters whom I love dearly. The thought of abuse happening to them or to any woman, for any reason, is hideous, dispicable, and grievously sinful. I've read at least many of these blogs and can hardly recognize my own message. If you wish, you may listen to the whole (one full hour) of this June 22 message at: http://feeds.feedburner.com/dbc_recent_sermons
You still may not agree with my positions, but I hope you would see I in no way give justification to abuse as many of these bloggers have wrongly and hurtfully claimed. And just so you know, I use my "platform" as a teacher and preacher regularly to call men to treat women with deep respect, and to live with their wives in ways that build them up and show them true Christ-like love (Eph 5:25-27) and honor (1 Pet 3:7).
Blessings in Christ,
Bruce Ware"

Oh, so he knows how to backtrack. That's great. So do politicians. But that doesn't mean they get a free pass for what they are backtracking from.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble echoz but this is not out of context.

Bruce Ware said women desire to have their own way instead of submitting to their husbands because of sin.

"And husbands on their parts, because they're sinners, now respond to that threat to their authority either by being abusive, which is of course one of the ways men can respond when their authority is challenged--or, more commonly, to become passive, acquiescent, and simply not asserting the leadership they ought to as men in their homes and in churches".

These are his words and reflect the Complementarian view he espouses which is centered on the idea that a wife is to be submissive to her husband in all things.

The price for being un-submissive? According to Bruce Ware there are only two alternatives: a beat-down or acquiescence (both of which arise out of sin).
So, again, I ask you:

How is this "out of context" echoz?

and yet, christianity has been used repeatedly in america for just this purpose, to hurt, kill and terrorize. bush got into office because of evangelicals. It may be noble, but it's so esoteric as to be easily and dangerously misconstrued.

then theres the old fact that it's a silly bunch of fables from savages (basically)

Mako2424 has a history of ridicule for chauvinism while he himself is one.

Do not have discussion with these types.

Dare I ask for proof, matt?

That's what I thought.

Everyone here is bending scriptures and reading them out of context to suit their own arguement. No comment is worth posting if one has to respond to this type of posting and comments.

i think you're the one who's ignorant

mmm, I shouldn't have even bothered reading it if you weren't going expand on your thoughts, however, I believe the majority of christians; orthodox, catholic, greek, etc, would agree with me that american protestantism is both deranged and dangerous.

so shut it.

there's no place in the bible that teaches one to beat their wife.

This is like blaming a sex-ed class for the spread of STDs

It also preaches not break anyone's face...wife or not. Violence begats violence. Private Ibber

Totally true!!!!

how literally stupid you r comment is...maybe we shouldn't be surprised as you're not the only one. beating women is NOT in any form being advocated here in the least. that's your own crap knee-jerk reaction pretending to be some legitimate conclusion to truth--albeit I can give that the graphic for this story is polarizing to say the least.

"Can two walk TOGETHER unless they be agreed?" --Amos 3:3 (emphasis mine)

Unfortunately many women are themselves perfecting the subtle art of subversion as regards relations between the sexes. And many women are absolutely worse than snakes if honestly men were as honest, hence the question is asked:

"Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need ..." Proverbs 31:10-11... (not too many of those faithfully devoted women can be easily found...most are content to show little respect for the station of a man even in his own house, when it doesn't suit their own priorities these days. And this is not to say that men don't have faults either, but it's just as true that women can be creeps, liars and manipulators perhaps even moreso than many men would even think to be...)

Honestly, traditional virtue and women, do NOT go hand in hand if real experience is to be any witness for more and more men these days...