WTF | December 14, 2008 | 19 comments

TIME OUT!!! It is time to STOP all THIS 20th CENTURY BS!!!

source: http://www.russianews.net/index.php

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Katanajon
World powers ignore treaty to ban cluster bombs

Russia News.Net
Saturday 13th December, 2008

Who would not agree to the banning of cluster bombs that have killed and maimed tens of thousands of civilians around the world? Answer: United States, Israel, China, Russia, India and Pakistan.
The United States, Russia and China are sending a terrible message to the rest of the world by refusing to take part in the historic signing of a treaty that bans the production and use of cluster bombs.

In a world that is plagued by war, military occupation and terrorism, the involvement of the great military powers in signing and ratifying the agreement would have signaled – if even symbolically - the willingness of these countries to spare civilians’ unjustifiable deaths and the lasting scars of war.

Nonetheless, the incessant activism of many conscientious individuals and organizations came to fruition on December 3-4 when ninety-three countries signed a treaty in Oslo, Norway that bans the weapon, which has killed and maimed many thousands of civilians.

The accord was negotiated in May, and should go into effect in six months, once it is ratified by 30 countries. There is little doubt that the treaty will be ratified; in fact, many are eager to be a member of the elite group of 30. Unfortunately, albeit unsurprisingly, the US, Russia, China, Israel, India and Pakistan – a group that includes the biggest makers and users of the weapon - neither attended the Ireland negotiations, nor did they show any interest in signing the agreement.

The US argues that cluster bombs are a legitimate weapon, essential to repel the advancing columns of enemy troops. If such a claim carried an iota of legitimacy, then the weapon’s use should have ended with the end of conventional wars in the mid twentieth century. However, cluster bombs are still heavily utilized in wars fought in or around civilian areas.
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19 comments // TIME OUT!!! It is time to STOP all THIS 20th CENTURY BS!!!

  • Ricky84
    • 0
      Ricky84  

    • The act of banning cluster munitions is a short sighted gesture that could potentially do more harm than good. That’s because cluster munitions are very effective at carrying out a particular job that by its own nature requires a specialized weapon. In other words, without cluster munitions a military is either forced to use a weapon (like a large bomb, but more likely in this case, several large bombs) that could potentially, at that moment, kill more people than cluster munitions could ever kill. Or on the other hand the military could do nothing.

      In the end this really does not make sense. If the objective is to save lives you can’t propose a solution that will in all likelihood take more lives. Personally I think the best way to cut down on civilian casualties is to take an active role in the election process and vote for politicians who believe in a defense only foreign policy.

      It’s the war hawks who send out those small special operation teams against overwhelming odds, and unfortunately because of the nature of the conflict those soldiers are forced to unleash hell.

    • 3 years ago
  • Katanajon
  • Ricky84
    • 0
      Ricky84  

    • An outright ban on cluster munitions is really a hollow gesture. First off none of the major producers of cluster munitions signed the treaty. Secondly if the international community were really interested in saving lives they would of pushed for such a treaty YEARS ago when cluster bombs were a significant part of the ERW (explosive remnants of war) problem. Or better yet the international community should actually push to outlaw the use of bombs in any civilian area outright.
      Sounds crazy doesn’t it? Well calling this treaty pointless doesn’t sound all that crazy when you actually look at the reality of the ERW problem.
      In Afghanistan in 2006, the UN reported 16 known casualties from unexploded cluster munitions out of a total of 796 casualties of all ERW. For that same year, the International Committee of the Red Cross reported 22 cluster munitions casualties out of a total of 784 casualties from all ERW.
      Bosnia: in 2006, there were 35 ERW casualties; 1 of those casualties was caused by a cluster munition
      CAMBODIA: Cluster munitions accounted for 20 of the 450 casualties that Cambodia suffered from ERW and landmines in 2006, as reported by the Cambodian Mine Victim Information Service.
      IRAQ: According to the Landmine Monitor, the Iraqi government estimated that from 2003 to 2006 there were 75 casualties from cluster munitions used by U.S. forces. The Landmine Monitor also estimated that between 2003 and 2005, there were 2,810 casualties from ERW and landmines. Immediately after the fall of Saddam Hussein, the U.S. Department of State initiated a major humanitarian mine action program in Iraq, which included a deployment by its Quick Reaction Demining Force in the summer and fall of 2003 to clean up unexploded cluster munitions and other ERW. In 2006, Iraq suffered 99 casualties from ERW and mines that were reported: 1 of those casualties was caused by a cluster munition, according to the Landmine Monitor.
      KOSOVO: By the time former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia forces were driven from Kosovo by U.S. and NATO forces, this province was heavily affected by landmines and ERW, including unexploded cluster munitions. The United States contributed to a UN- led clearance effort that declared Kosovo free from the humanitarian impacts of landmines and ERW in 2001. Nonetheless residual ERW do remain in Kosovo and produced 11 casualties in 2006, not one of which was reported as being caused by cluster munitions, according to the Office of the Kosovo Protection Corps Coordinator.
      SERBIA: Between 2001 and 2005, there were 52 casualties caused by ERW, according to the Landmine Monitor. The Associated Press reported that 1 of those ERW incidents involved a deminer who was injured by a cluster munition that had failed to detonate in 1999. There were no ERW or landmine casualties in 2006, according to the Landmine Monitor.
      Overall cluster munitions are responsible for only five percent of all ERW deaths.
      As things stand now the US cannot sell any cluster munitions system that has a failure rate above 1%. The US military cannot use cluster munitions unless the president (or at the very least a four star general) approves its usage. Lastly all new cluster munitions developed by the US must have a 99% reliability rate.
      As I said before years ago, like during the Vietnam war, this treaty would of meant a lot more than it does today. Even so the greater threat to mankind is still the use of any bomb in a civilian area.

    • 3 years ago
  • Ricky84
    • 0
      Ricky84  
    • Ricky84:

      Now as to the belief that cluster bombs have no use of the battlefield; well that’s been confirmed to be false many times. Ideally cluster munitions have been used by small, special operation teams against large forces trying to overrun their position. Therefore its kind of ridiculous to assume that cluster munitions are only useful in a conventional setting.

      Even in an unconventional, guerrilla fight there can be an instance where one force attempts to move against another force, whether its to get into a firing position or to overrun. A guerrilla fight is not at all times shoot and run away. If that was the case guerrilla fighting wouldn’t really be a form of warfare since it would be a purely defensive response to an attacking force.

    • 3 years ago
  • darkhorsejim
    • 0
      darkhorsejim  

    • Bombs are big bucks & war is big business. I'd like to think an Obama led administration will straighten out our nation's misguided direction at a time the world needs global cooperation.

    • 3 years ago
  • Katanajon
    • 0
      Katanajon  

    • Avery, you are delusional. I don't care to hear your Grammar school tantrums anymore. You always are so petty, you should not have attacked Nancy for her post. Leave a post like everyone else and save your insults for your bathroom mirror. This isn't about you Avery. Nor is it about Bush or Rumsfeld. Your problem is you are so insecure about your own intelligence that you spend most of your time arguing with people instead of posting on the article. I have seen you in action for 4 months and have never seen anything that impressed me. You wont get the last word either Avery, this is my post, one of 15 homepage heroes that I have posted in the last two days. I am not a newbie anymore Avery. BTW I used to be called NOBAMAJON, but changed my name out of respect for our new President. Like Nancy told you, Keep it up and I will flag you. BTW nothing you say excites me or anyone. I have much better things to do, I have too many articles to stay here and bicker with you.

    • 3 years ago
  • AveryMoore
  • Katanajon
  • Katanajon
    • 0
      Katanajon  

    • Avery Moore, Poster Police at your service. Avery why don't you just worry about your own self for a change. Write one of those long winded mini bibles that are suppose to enlighten us with your infinite knowledge. And just leave people alone, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and besides you wouldn't know sarcasm if it hit you in the face!!!

    • 3 years ago
  • AveryMoore
  • Katanajon
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  
    • Katanajon:

      That slam dunk – is that McCain and Rumsfeld's “slam dunk” or just more solipsism?

      You know, the neocon's circular argument which claims that actual proof is unnecessary provided a witless blowhard insists often enough, and asserts loudly enough, that they've reached perfect understanding, because everything they need to know about the world already is contained in their own head? And it's been verified by FOX Noise!

      Now that particular problem? It's is very serious matter - of denial.

      As to garbage pails? Now that's FUNNY. And I'm as free to write sarcasm as you are, or Nancyf...

      Enjoy the ride.

    • 3 years ago
  • Katanajon
    • 0
      Katanajon  
    • Katanajon:

      Avery, you are just an angry know it all. People don't deserve the way you talk down to them. If I can change my toxic ways so can you. Give it a try for all of us. Also, the whole thing of thinking everything that comes out of the mouth of someone who isn't a scholar is useless is just plain dumb.

    • 3 years ago
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  
    • Katanajon:

      katanajon,

      Once again - you make assumptions based not on fact, but inane prejudice.

      Once again - you're wrong.

      Eisenhower CONSERVATIVE.

      Not trash-talking net-neocon keyboard commando.

      Believe it: It's a huge difference in perception. It's the difference between having managed others for 40 years, and the juvenile desire to control others without either possessing or developing the wits needed to understand the task.

      Ron Paul understands it. Pat Buchanan understands it. As does Susan Eisenhower, Colin Powell, Chris Buckley [as did his dad] The American Conservative Magazine got it, David Frum and Francis Fukuyama of PNAC caught on. It doesn't take merely an impressive c.v. - it takes experience and depth.

      During the election there were not just dozens but tens of thousands more who saw what idiocy 8 years of Bush doctrine had wrought and said 'FUCK THIS: It stops.'

      Either they switched sides or refused to vote.

      Somehow for you and your buddies the end of Bush threatens you. Democracy threatens you. Obama threatens you. Everything that can't be micromanaged by knee-jerk political dogma must be deemed a horror by legions of fratboy chickenhawks..

      For the rest of us - we get to help restore America to the best it was, long before you were even born - with or without Liberals - with or without YOU..

      You have slam dunked no one.

    • 3 years ago
  • Moopak
    • Moopak  
    • This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
  • Katanajon
  • Nancyf
  • AveryMoore
  • Nancyf
  • AveryMoore
    • 0
      AveryMoore  

    • Where money is concerned the great illusion that imperial ideologies differ radically collapses.

      China, Russia, and the US? This they share in common?

      Then the lesser players, India, Pakistan and Israel sing the same chorus. Weapons which maim are good for business.

      Let not anyone harm commerce in death.

    • 3 years ago
  • jahbini
    • 0
      jahbini  

    • The US made such a big deal of Saddam Hussein's use of poison gas. The US was a leader in getting that barred from warfare.

      So why not cluster bombs and land mines? You will probably not be surprised by the answer: Poison gas and the like wound SOLDIERS and drive up the cost of medical treatment for all the governments. That makes war expensive.

      Land mines and cluster bombs drive up the cost of medicine for CIVILIANS. And what government really cares about them, anyway?

    • 3 years ago
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