Health care is a right

I am a conservative that is trying to appeal to the audience here to understand why most are opposed to such a bill. Everyone for this bill has good intentions. But it is financially irresponsible of this administration to seek socializing healthcare. Is the current system perfect? No. But to do what is being proposed means everyone in this nation will eventually lose their right to choose the best health care for themselves and their family. Bogus figures are being used to push this legislation, such as the 47 million people who do not have health care. It's not difficult to find that the 47 million include nearly 10 million who are not U.S. citizens, 17 million that live in a household earning over $50k yearly, etc.

Everyone that is for this universal healthcare needs to be aware that this is the first step towards the government running the healthcare system. You will lose your rights with this proposal, eventually. The fines imposed by the government will evetually run insurance companies out of business so that there will no longer be any choice for you or me.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/20/sebelius-im-all-for-single-payer-system-ev...

I recomend everyone pay very close attention to Barack Obama and his Homies. Such as Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, John McCain, Hillary Clinton.....your Reps & Senators.

If they are NOT supporting HR 676, we are in serious trouble!

Those "Town Hall Meetings" Obama is having across the country....are a sham. There was one in Virginia about 2-3 weeks ago - a perfect example.

With all do respect, there were too many people telling their sad stories of rising medical bills, not having medical coverage for who knows how long due to job loss or changing jobs.

My questions were: Have ANY of the locals in attendence heard of HR 676? Where are the Doctors? Many Doctors ARE in support of HR 676.

Obama's BIG Mistake was introducing Max Baucus at one of those meetings saying "....he's been working tirelessly" for a Healthcare Plan. People applauded.....not knowing the REAL Truth.

Max Baucus is not in support of HR 676. At a meeting earlier in the year, there were people (supporting HR 676) in attendence.

People shouted out asking why he is not in support of HR 676 or words to that....he sat there. Silent. Smiling. Brushing it off like nothing happened as security officers escorted the shouters out.

Look it up on YouTube. Here is a link to get you started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncb58qnDyxs (About 0:46 in you will see Max Baucus - grey suit - on the left).

Max Baucus is like the fox guarding the hen house! DON'T trust him! He's not supporting HR 676!

If you are able to attend a Town Hall Meeting, speak up! Shout it out! Ask if they support HR 676. Ask why they do not support it.

The 'typical' response is "there is not enough support for it". Ask THEM if they read it.

Don't know what HR 676 is? Google it. It's all there!

The short of it: "Single Payer Healthcare" - Everyone In. Nobody Out! No Premiums. No Co-pays. No Deductables. No Nonsense!

What is REALLY sad is your comment, plusaf.

America needs Health Care Reform now. Our current system does not work

As a Canadian Citizen, I experienced the world's best healthcare administration system. Some 8.5 years I bought emergency medical insurance to cover me since I relocated to the United States as a graduate student on a J1 Visa. I recently became a U.S Citizen because I believe in this country and intend to obey the laws of the Constituition. What was interesting during most of my 8.5 years here was that during those few times that I explained the benefits of Canadian health care administration, that Americans responded with displeasure. I have no idea what the current U.S. Government has planned for us all related to health care, but I have to laugh at those who displayed their displeasure. Healthcare is a basic right and if the Government provides it for you and if it is similar to that of Canada's system, it's a win-win situation. My employer pays most of my healthcare, although if I paid it the total monthly amount is $465.00. In Canada the amount would be $62.67. Take your pick. Oh, and if their are fellow Americans who want to bring up the topic of wait lines for some elective surgery in Canada and downplay the Canadian healthcare system, don't because I have not had to wait for my healthcare once in Canada. I know what I am talking about since I 53 years of age. The U.S. news media from time to time gets a story of Canadian healthcare and as usual, blows it completely out of proportion so my advice is to live in the country before you share opinions of another country's healthcare system. Since I live and work in the US and have lived in Canada, I am working to make a difference for all of us in the great State of California. Peace.

I absolutely agree. there is a bill, h.r.676 which addresses this. Please support it.

Al, the only way to bring in a decent health care system into the US would be to request the Federal Government of Canada to consult to the US. I am a Canadian who has lived and experience the "American wild co-payment gouge you monthly" system for the past 8 years and wow Canada has the best health care and best health care administration system in the world. Al, have you lived in Canada and participated in the health care there? After I tell most Americans that as a Canadian we have the best health care and health care administration, they like to talk wildly about some of these stupid odd stories that they hear from stupid American journalists who have like you never lived in Canada and participated in health care there. Yes, a few years ago there were some wait lines for certain surgeries but my government has that covered now. Al, push for Canada to assist the USA to implement the Canadian system. It Works!

Hey guys, I'm all for taking care of one another but it is impossible to believe that our government involvement will create better healthcare. Secondly, when do you think you are going to go after the government for the money to pay for this Universal Healthcare instead of the tax payer who already is burdened with a government that over taxes over spends, puts the money in their back pocket or wastes it.
Growing up, I couldnt afford healthcare and that caused me to work hard so I could afford it along with affording alot more things. Healthcare is not a right.

A good source for beginning to understand what other options are available:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/

nobody cares what you say manbearpig is not real

I agree 100% with Al Gore! Universal health care should be provided to everyone. Doesn't matter what your income is, everyone needs it. There are so many people out there who work two jobs just to keep food on the table and a home for their kids. There are no benefits from this, especially health care which we all need and cant really live without. It's sad that so many people cant afford private health insurance and are living without it!
I believe that it just doesn't seem fair that many people cant afford a college education so they have to work at places like Walmart or Kroger to get income. they might be working just as hard, or even more than someone who works at a bank. But in the long run hard work doesn't always pay off especially for the middle incomers.

Al,

I agree that the system doesn't work and is way too expensive. It's in a deplorable state of affairs. However, I am not convinced that universal health care is the answer. I am a firm believer in the power of laissez-faire capitalism, althoughI must admit I am deeply troubled that prices have not been driven down by natural market forces, especially considering quality of service.

Thus, my response to your core viewpoint, "there should be universal, single-payer, government-funded healthcare", my answer is that I don't know. I would need to be better informed about how the healthcare industry is regulated by the government currently, as well as information on why laissez-faire doesn't seem to work in this instance.

However, I voted "no" because there is one thing you said that I disagree with: your claim that health care is a right. Health care is a necessity; rights and necessities are not the same thing. I need food; I don't have a right to food. I need to earn it, through work. In the same way, and for the same reasons, I believe people need to work & earn their health care.

That does not, of course, justify having to overpay for health care. If a pound of beef cost $50 and you had to wait over half an hour for it each time you went to the supermarket, you'd be justifiably outraged. Something definitely must be done (or undone, if the problem is federal regulations); therefore, I agree that legislation must be passed to save the health care industry, preferrably as soon as possible.

cathleen marie- you have some good points and some legitimate concerns...but i have to say that i feel that adequate healthcare is part of the inalienable right to the freedom of LIFE...you can't live very long without life -and when your life is denied you by lacking medical attention when necessary OR that medical care afforded you in your time of need leaves you with so many debts that you can't eat for six months - then i fail to see it as much of a privilege... Granted, i understand your point...who would pay for it? That's why i'm not for Government healthcare - but a system where a one private institution is granted the responsibility for providing health care coverage for every American...The government can set cost levels at a single, across-the-board price, and private institutions can "watchdog" this new program for defects and wrongdoing....

I think that America needs to send representatives (hopefully doctors, not administrators) to other countries that have a working National Health Care plan and take notes...find out what works and what doesn't....
After all, didn't we all grow up with the belief that, as Americans, we could achieve anything?...that nothing is impossible for us when we work together?...

I just don't understand why it is that we have to allow BIG business to control our ability to get adequate health care...It doesn't feel right to me. The whole system stinks of injustice. That's just how i feel about it....

ocanada, -- good points for sure. I do believe that things like legal protection and public primary and grade schools are rights, in a sense. I don't think that they're in the same category as fundamental rights, like life and freedom, are though. Because listen- you don't have to PAY for rights. rights, in their very nature, are endowed to you- by a creator if you like, or just by the very fact that you're a human being. This country's legislation is set up to, at the VERY LEAST, respect people's basic rights. We all agree that you have the right to live and pursue your own dreams and speak out against what you think is wrong and own a gun and a million other things. But none of those rights infringe on any of MY rights. To be very basic-- you have a right to speak, but you don't have a right to force me to listen. And none of those rights cost you anything. You can talk about that it costs money to buy a gun, but you don't have to buy the right to own it, you just have to buy the gun (and whatever safety measures your state gov. feels are appropriate.. which sucks but is a different issue.) I already talked about how we say that people have a right to public education, but we pay for that service. The fact that we pay for it makes it less of a right than life and freedom. to be honest, education and legal counsel are not rights- they are privileges of living in a nation that has collectively agreed and been able to provide them for it's citizens. As a citizen of this country, you have a right to a free education, because you've paid for it (through your taxes and stuff) .. you paid for it, it's yours. But you don't have that inherent right as a human being. You were born endowed to an education. you pay for it. So it's not the same as life and freedom (certainly you could make the argument that we pay police officers for our right to live freely in peace- but the difference there is that you're paying them to PROTECT your right, not PROVIDE it.)

think about the public school system-- do you really want your health care system to be run like that? When has eliminating free competition and letting the government be it's own watchdog ever created a successful, efficient system?

And a further point- people say that healthcare is too expensive. Yes, I agree- it is extremely costly (and that's a symptom of a very GOOD process.. but takes too long to discuss right now).. If you want to say that around 47 million americans right now are uninsured (census 2006) and you want to have the good faith in them that they really can't afford health care (which also isn't true.. as about 20% of them make about $60,000 a year.. also census 2005-6) then you have to sit down and ask yourself some real questions: if almost 15% of the country can't afford even the most basic forms of health insurance/health care.. then where would the money come to pay for all American's health care needs? I'm sorry, does the government have some secret fund that's not OUR MONEY anyways that they would use to pay for all this? Don't think that the small portion of the extremely wealthy will (or even can) support the majority of the MASSIVE tax increases that would come about from gov. health care. It will be the middle class-- it always is. the rich contribute, certainly- but the middle class mkes up the bulk of the taxpayers (esp. because in this country, the poorest people don't have to pay any taxes). So even though you can tax the small percentage of the rich more, the bulk of the money will always come from the middle class.

So if the middle class can't afford health care now, why would they collectly be able to afford.. and support the lower class's needs as well?

There's a disconnect here, and it's important for people to realize it. Government/Universal Health Care is not the way to an effective medical system.

Unfortunatly I think our country is going to have to hit rock bottom economically before we actually see a real movement for this issue.

The system we have now has turned doctors into employees to insurance companies, and as a result doctors have turned against patients, and patients against themselves by not going to get regular check ups. Some insurance plans will cover routine services at 100% (medical claims sent in with routine ICD-9 diagnosis codes on them) . But, if there is any implication by the patient to the doctor that there is an underlying medical codition the diagnosis code could be medical. If the patient is on a plan that has a deductible, they might end up with a bill for the whole charge of the visit and any labs or x-rays done as well.

Yet you have the right to legal counsel and a jury of your peers neither of which is free and both of which are a service provided by someone and yet our democracy could not function without them. As for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, health care is pursuant of life and as a result emergency care is a requirement in this country, something that has been discussed at length as one of the reasons so many have died in America, 100,000 medically preventable deaths in America last year, and why health care has become so expensive as our premiums pay 100 percent of those costs. I think that health care is pursuant to life and that we should have portable single payer health care established as a right similar to legal counsel, a right everyone is afforded but with the option to seek nongovernmental options if you have the means to do so.

Health care is not a right the same way that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights--
Healthcare is a service provided by people-- doctors, nurses, drug researchers and no one, no matter how much they want it or need it, has a RIGHT to their work.
Many of us feel like we need a high level of education to be successful.. we wouldn't DREAM of arriving on, say a college campus, sitting down in a classroom, and demanding that the professors educate you for free.. you pay tuition because the professors are providing you with a service. We have public primary and highschools, but still the people that work there get compensated as well. We acknowledge that those people are providing us with a service, and so we compensate them-- the same way we compensate the cashier at McDonalds for providing us with food.

My issue here is this: you can't call a service provided by another person a right. You don't have to pay for true rights-- like life and freedom. Rights, in their very nature, cannot be bought, or exchanged, or taken away from a person without a just cause. Calling health care or education (or a hamburger) a right is incorrect. Though there is much about our current health care system that we should change, we cannot begin to change it unless we have an accurate understanding of what the system is and why it is set up the way it currently is. Thinking that we have a RIGHT to healthcare the same way we have a right to our lives and our freedom is a gross misunderstanding, and I don't want the person attempting to fix the situation to have that view.

Question for the "Patriotic" Americans out there - Why is the "#1 country" in the world lagging so far behind it taking care of it's own people in regards to health care. That's alot of #2 IMHO.

The people who are affected the most are not the feared lazy people taking advantage of the system but hardworking people who don't earn enough to qualify for certain insurances or have policies that don't cover enough.

Jawny, isn't what you just stated single payer coverage? What are you disagreements with single payer coverage? This is exactly what this viewpoint is about. Decoupling insurance from employment, making it mandatory through taxation/subsidies to increase collective bargaining power and to decrease emergency health costs, and in the viewpoint Al even says it doesn't have to be totally government run. If you don't find this model preferable to the current corporate model that hasn't been driven down by market forces but instead because of an insistence on profit has gone up at a rate four time higher then inflation then I have to ask why? Don't you agree that rising costs and diminishing care has hurt health care consumers, both working class people and employers. A system that doubles its cost every five years and leaves less and less people covered resulting in pain and death is simply an unsustainable model that is not market friendly and far more importantly is simply unconscionable in the wealthiest nation on this earth.

I would also say that we should invest the health savings from this plan. If costs are reduced by the plan but taxes remain static say a three percent income tax as was proposed in the early nineties (which is on par to the average minimin wage increase in America and has been proven to be a sustainable force in the market) than we will still have an increased disposable income as three percent will be far below the current cost its win win. We then invest the extra money from the tax into further driving costs down. One way I see of doing that is to use the funds to increase the size of the pell grants for higher education in America. Originaly such grants covered upwards of one third of the costs and now they cover an eighth or less in many cases. Considering the debt that most doctors must pay off in the first years of their practice it isn't a wonder thier prices have increased. Removing a portion of that debt gives them a better footing and gives an increased incentive for going into the field. There is also currently a nursing shortage in America and cheaper study could provide a solution. More doctors and nurses with less debt means cheaper and more personal care. Hopefully increased staffing would also lead to a lessening of on call care which has also contributed to rising costs, and decreased quality of care.

why is it that the British have had Universal Health since the end of WWII, yet we here in the U.S. have to fend off the creditors and HMO sharks?

More, BS "Bureaucratic Snafu" jargon, Johnny B.

You should know that neither of those two points are even remotely close to being the biggest causes of the current crisis. Of course, I'll give you that they are problems but the their rectification would not have helped Lisa or people like her in the short time she had to rely on an insurer doing things fairly or honestly.

You continue to joust with windmills, Sancho.

THAT'S WHY I SAY GO HILLARY!

The issues of portability and insurability are the two biggest liabilities of the current system. Decoupling insurance from employment is an essential reform. The insurability issue is in part a response to the perverse incentives that exist in the system today. There is absolutely no incentive to contain costs. Consumers are completely insulated from price in this system and are never a part of the negotiation setting those prices. Unfortunately, the inflationary pressure created by these ills ripples out to other decision making, including insurers denying coverage or making coverage for people with health issues unattainable. These problems are all directly addressed by the type of free market, consumer driven reform that I advocate.

Jawnybnsc = troll. You nailed it AngelinaH!

Dodging, evading, misstating and lying is his M.O.

Jawny, when I make a parallel point of dishonest tactics and unfair claims settlement practices in the insurance industry between two types of insurance, why do you embarrass yourself by not understanding that their claims settlement practices are often copied from market to market and line to line?

Do you not see how stupid an assertion you are making to try to make a point that they don't adopt nefarious tactics from one line or division to another when it comes to settling claims to rip off consumers?

You ARE the weakest link, aren't you?
.

According to the Center For Disease Control this is the demographics as of 2006 for the uninsured in America. Roughly twenty percent of working adults are uninsured and roughly ten percent of all American children are uninsured totaling roughly 44 million. That number has been projected to have increased to a minimum of 47million as of today. Working adults aged 18-29 make up less than half of the total uninsured in America.

According to the Bureau of labor Statistics health care premiums have increased more than eighty percent for the average family since 2000 while wages have increased by less than twenty percent in that time. This increase is above inflation and has reportedly forced 2.2 million families to abandon coverage because they could no longer afford it.

Some of those aged 18-29 are veterans and though I was unable to find national statistics on the number of uninsured veterans I was able to find a publication in Oklahoma that was addressing this concern and that stated there were 25,000 uninsured veterans in Oklahoma alone. This brought on comments from Secretary of State Rice today saying that the situation as simply unfair and that these brave men and women should be insured. To insert an opinion for a moment I agree and think they have earned the right to coverage for thier service.

A further study of insurance seekers in 2006 found that eighty nine percent of all those applying for insurance were denied coverage due to pre existing conditions despite their ability to pay the premiums. less of a statistic and more of an insight is the complexities that have been discovered in the human genome project. Some of the analysis shows us that its probable that each of us contains fatal or harmful genes. Whether it be a predisposition to a disease, an allergy, or even a recessive genetic disorder that we will pass on. By these standards either ourselves or our children are all uninsurable if we take a full acounting of our genetic material.

These are the facts as up to date as I can find them. Last years statistics are still being processed and will not be known for some time. Judge them yourselves I am interested in finding other sources as well. I just wanted to put these out there. Please let my know if you know of any more recent statistics from reputable sources.

It's great to see an item generating discussion, but let's keep the conversation focused on the issue. There's no need to make things personal! If you're wondering what's acceptable, try checking out our community standards (http://current.com/s/community_standards.htm).

It is frustrating and sad to see the back and forth name calling in this thread. I see smart people in this thread who are great thinkers with valid arguments. I am making a request to move away from this violent language into a more non-violent communication. This is something I have been asking of myself and I am asking it of others as well. It is hard to do with someone poking at our ego and throwing our beliefs aside. But I think worth while in the end.

And by the way . . . since you're so concerned about my children . . . I'll have you know that my children are healthy, happy, well-adjusted, intelligent and productive members of their peer groups. I suspect that both of them will do many things in the coming years that will make us all proud. Perhaps my son or daughter will one day be a doctor and save your miserable life. Afterall, we are all valuable and worthy . . . right? I only hope that they live and work in an America that sees fit to compensate them at a level commensurate with their skill and investment in training. I only hope they live in an America that still values individual rights, private property, liberty and the free market. I hope that if people of your ilk turn America into the socialist, collectivist utopia that you dream of that they would have the sense to leave and pursue their happiness elsewhere.

Troll . . . anyone who dissents, is in the minority or disagrees with AngelinaH.

All of my posts have been on topic. Far more so than other posters here who have tried to goad me with all sorts of off topic nonsense. Are they trolls? Oh wait . . . that's right they're in the majority and you agree with them.

I've already addressed the Christian thing elsewhere. It was an honest mistake . . . which I owned up to.

Your claim to appreciate open and honest debate is a SHAM. I've answered your arguments and have introduced resources to this debate that were dismissed out of hand. At no point did you make any attempt to substantively address my arguments or any of those made at the site I referenced and now you come back . . . you again fail to address my arguments, again make claims about me that are unfounded and untrue and again insult me personally when I asked that you refrain. And you're the open and honest debater here? Your claims and your protests are LAUGHABLE on their face.

Inofuilwell,

I don't understand why you keep asking me to defend that which I did not come here to defend. At no point did I ever say that "Bureaucratic SNAFUs" are the cause of all the ills of today's system. In fact, I've gone on to cite some of the reasons why the current system is not working.

Further, the website that I linked, and which you dismissed as propaganda and dubiously funded, gives a more detailed account of the ills of the CURRENT SYSTEM. Yet you keep coming back with the same strawman and asking me to defend points that I not only didn't make, but that I've made clear that I don't support at all. Not only that, you have yet to substantively address ANY of the points made by me or by the people at freemarketcure. What you have done is smear, demonize, misdirect and LIE.

By the way . . . you were doing some due diligence on those guys over at freemarketcure. That was over a week ago. You come up with anything yet that you care to share with the group, or are you going to start talking about utilities, credit card companies and homeowners insurance again?

6) "You know what . . . take it . . . I'll just pass and wait for my next unwitting victim."

Learn to recognize tongue in cheek humor when you see it. Waving the bloody shirt over this kind of thing makes you look like a silly, humorless twit.

7) Jawny, please do us all a favor, and don't have any more children.

Finally . . . this kind of comment, in my opinion, is out of bounds and unwarranted. It is not your place to decide who should or shouldn't have children. You don't know me, you don't know my children and I'd appreciate it if you'd keep those kinds of comments to yourself.

1) I don't see you weeping for anyone. You complain about all the tax dollars you pay, and about the "free rides" that others get. How then can you say that you shed a tear for those who suffer? I'm sorry, but I have been reading your posts for some time now, and I don't buy it. I don't think anyone else does either, which is why this debate is a mute point.

That's because you place your faith in government and the collective. I place my faith in the market and individuals. I've seen people disagree about these things and debate these points honestly and openly. You don't even seem to be capable of understanding why someone might think differently. You don't even seem capable of comprehending that someone who doesn't believe what you believe might care just as much about what happens to his fellow man and might just see a disaster around the corner. One brought about by people who believe as you believe. Could you just take a moment to entertain that thought instead of the knee jerk hatred and mistrust that you so easily cast my way?

2) "When given a choice between weekends club hopping and paying for health insurance, many of your uninsured will be found gettin' their drink on at the club. "

Offensive . . . yes. True . . . yes. Hate to break it to you AngelinaH. A very large percentage of the people who advocates of universal health care call uninsured are young people who elect not to take available coverage and who spend the greater portion of the discretionary income this leaves them on entertainment. Sorry it offends you, but I'm just as offended by people who manipulate statistics in order to gain advantage in a policy debate.

3) HOW DARE YOU? This is America. Do you say, "You pay less taxes than I do, so I have priority on the roads."? NO, that's not how it works. We each pay taxes. ALL of us. And Mr. Big Stuff, if it were not for the people who were willing to do "very little" you wouldn't be running a business, would you? It is the common man who owns this country. You owe your livelihood to them. Don't presume for a moment that your contribution is so much more valid than that of your neighbor. If you're going to take that position, then know that you are NOTHING, considering that MANY people pay much, MUCH more taxes than you do...I GUARANTEE it.

You clearly miss the point and the point remains valid. I acknowledge all of those things that my taxes pay for and I understand that NONE OF THOSE THINGS is "free". Perhaps you missed the statement that I was responding to? Perhaps it was just an oversight on your part that you left out the context? The point is that it goes against my beliefs to demand of others what I do not strive to provide for myself. I cannot stand the attitude that many who pay very little or nothing to the treasury believe that the rest of us who do OWE THEM SOMETHING.

5) What's funny is that men like Bill Gates know that it's not about how much wealth you can amass, and how much you can horde for yourself. It's not a matter of who pays for what. Real men are charitable, and believe in equality. Real men know that money is not what makes the man. A real man will take the coat off his back for another in need.

What's even funnier is that you know absolutely nothing about me and yet you take it upon yourself to comment on my charity. Even funnier than that is that you apparently can't tell the difference between that which is volunteered and that which is compulsory. Property taken by force and redistributed by inequitable, unjust and overreaching institutions and bureaucracies is just straight up theft to me. The fact that you pardon all this while casting judgment on me I find offensive. Even more offensive is that you make a point to call yourself a Christian while doing so.

Aw, Johnny B in Southern California (or is that South Carolina?),

It is no wonder you've decided not to respond to my destruction of your claims that the Americans who are being screwed and even KILLED by insurers are merely occasional victims of "Bureaucratic Snafu's".

I'm still waiting for you to address the point AngelinaH and I have both made that these people are not necessarily the poor or the uninsured AND that the insurers DELIBERATELY engage in unfair claims practices that have NOTHING to do with government intervention or regulation.

These cockroaches should be regulated out of the "Free Market" you embrace for the crimes they've ALREADY committed and show no signs of ceasing.

I am one without insurance. My solution to health insurance is $1.00 a month from everybody in the USA. Whats the population???.... One dollar Every Month. Yeah at first it won't work cause the cost ,but It would work in the long term.
And everyone politics about health care for the kids. Kids are cheap to deal with,I mean 35 to 200 bucks we can deal with for Doctor visits and etc....
It's the 30 to 50 year olds we are having problems with.
$1.00 healthcare would work!!

Case in point. Jawny, you're a house of paper cards. You appear to be nothing more than a troll with too much time on his hands, and antifreeze running through his veins.

I don't see you weeping for anyone. You complain about all the tax dollars you pay, and about the "free rides" that others get. How then can you say that you shed a tear for those who suffer? I'm sorry, but I have been reading your posts for some time now, and I don't buy it. I don't think anyone else does either, which is why this debate is a mute point.

In addition, you tend to discard anything that anyone has to say without even considering it. If that weren't enough, you refute even your own offensive comments. For example:

"When given a choice between weekends club hopping and paying for health insurance, many of your uninsured will be found gettin' their drink on at the club. "

Or, How about this WHOPPER of a statement:

"1) The healthcare that you keep saying is FREE is not FREE. It will be paid for by taxpayers like me. I wasn't talking about the rebate. I was talking about the fact that at your income level, you don't pay very much, if anything, in taxes and you get a rebate every year. As a business owner and someone who is self-employed, it is I who will pay for your "FREE" healthcare. I don't expect any thanks, just acknowledge the fact that your "FREE" healthcare is paid for by someone else.

2) None of this is meant to disparage your job situation in any way. You're working and doing what you can. I have no problem with that. The fact remains . . . you are NOT a taxpayer. That said, you seem to expect a lot from your government, while very little is required from you. "

HOW DARE YOU? This is America. Do you say, "You pay less taxes than I do, so I have priority on the roads."? NO, that's not how it works. We each pay taxes. ALL of us. And Mr. Big Stuff, if it were not for the people who were willing to do "very little" you wouldn't be running a business, would you? It is the common man who owns this country. You owe your livelihood to them. Don't presume for a moment that your contribution is so much more valid than that of your neighbor. If you're going to take that position, then know that you are NOTHING, considering that MANY people pay much, MUCH more taxes than you do...I GUARANTEE it.

You know what, maybe you're right. So then, by your standards, the wealthy are paying for your child's education, your city's police and emergency services, your roads and bridges, your sewers and waterways. I mean, after all, compared to Bill Gates, your taxes are MEANINGLESS, right?

Let's be honest, your taxes are a puny contribution in the scheme of things. But, you're doing your part, which is what matters.

What's funny is that men like Bill Gates know that it's not about how much wealth you can amass, and how much you can horde for yourself. It's not a matter of who pays for what. Real men are charitable, and believe in equality. Real men know that money is not what makes the man. A real man will take the coat off his back for another in need.

My last quote from you illustrates your true intentions. It is not with love and understanding that you approach this NATIONAL issue, but with the selfish intent of a needy Internet troll. Here then, are your own words...

"You know what . . . take it . . . I'll just pass and wait for my next unwitting victim."

Jawny, people like you are what's wrong with this country. As the great George Carlin said with infinite wisdom indeed, "The public SUCKS."

Jawny, please do us all a favor, and don't have any more children.

AngelinaH,

1) Hey Jawny...I've taken a different approach with you in the past, but right now, I feel like saying SCREW YOU. But, I won't, so pretend I didn't just tell you what I was thinking.

That's very Christian of you. Thank you for thinking of my needs in such a personal way.

2) Look dude, not everyone who is uninsured is uninsured by choice. For you to generalize the 47 million people who are uninsured into a group of irresponsible club hoppers...well...it's reprehensible, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Nowhere did I make such a claim. But the fact is that a VAST MAJORITY of the uninsured are uninsured by choice. Large numbers of the "uninsured" qualify for either Medicaid or SCHIP and don't sign up. Still others who are making enough money to afford coverage choose to do otherwise. Large numbers of the young spend money on entertainment instead of on healthcare. These are WELL DOCUMENTED facts.

3) If I told you that I want insurance, but cannot afford it, would you believe me?

Yes. If I told you that part of the reason why you can't afford insurance is because the industry is so heavily regulated that it makes it virtually impossible for you as a consumer to shop for a competitive rate, would you believe me?

4) Jawny, all humans are valuable. We all have something to offer, and we are all unique miracles. For you to reach your full potential, you need to have a heart, and be able to empathize with those that you now condemn and forsake.

I have never believed otherwise. I have a beautiful heart and my loving wife and children are testimony to that fact. I have neither condemned nor forsaken anyone. It seems you are incapable of separating a disagreement over public policy from a personal affront. Your attempt to claim the moral high ground here is completely without merit and is actually quite graceless. Again you've attempted to dehumanize and demonize me while claiming to be righteous. Instead of telling you to go fuck yourself . . . I'll just call you what you are . . . a hypocrite.

5) Please, think what you will, but recognize that each man, and each woman, and each child, are unique. They are individuals. If you were to meet them, you would feel for them, because then you would see that they are real, and they breathe, and they feel pain, that they work harder than you could imagine, and they cry real tears wrought with real, and often undeserved, suffering.

So I guess it would surprise you if I told you that I feel the same way when I see people deprived of property and liberty to feed this growing monster of a government that we have. I see needless and undeserved suffering at the hands of that government and I shed a tear. I see people wanting to turn even more of their lives and personal responsibility over to the government and I sigh in disgust. I see people who put their faith in this Leviathan and I weep. You getting my point there AngelinaH?

Ocanada, despite the ramblings and repitious slurs by jawnybnsc, your basic premise of universal care is what the market SHOULD be based upon.

In the video, Twodee linked that I will try to add with an edit, it makes the very real point that insurance used to be about "spreading the risk" among the policyholders or group members.

Twodee's link on the origins of health care:

http://fora.tv/2007/04/19/Untold_Story_of_America_s_Health_Care_Crisis

Instead of that business model, it has morphed into an industry that has at its center, a goal that includes the COMPLETE avoidance of ALL risk.

Every year, the industry moves closer and closer to that goal by machinations in every sector of the market and in every operating procedure in the industry.

What hurts policyholders most of all is insurers are constantly looking for and "finding" brand new ways to profit from unfair claims manipulation AFTER the rules are already made.

Claims payments for coverages listed in the policy should be completely seperated from the business model and in most states, the insurance code prohibits raising rates to cover past INVESTMENT losses.

Insurers often get around this rule by hyping CLAIMS losses and over-stating reserves. These claims losses are supoposed to be documented but they often begin the whining during the time they are first setting "reserves" aside right after a catastrophe. The losses look enormous but when things are actually completed, there are so many "pending cases" that never reach the insurers' heavily-weighted reserve estimates and since claims can take more than two years to finally settle in complicated cases or when litigation is involved the REAL losses may never get to the reserved estimate. Then, Insurance Commissioners very seldom do enough true forensic investigation to find the true claims losses. Insurers use trade associations and other services in nefarious ways to hype the true claims losses. They are very seldom forced to provide anything but anecdotal "evidence" based on reserves and initials claims numbers when the real reason for wanting rate increases were the non-qualifying losses they suffered due to underperforming investments and poor underwriting criteria.

First of all I do have insurance I am paying for. I make well under twenty grand a year, I work three jobs and am doing all of this so that I can afford to have insurance and better myself through an education. I do not have catastrophic coverage, I have 15,000 dollars for medical as well as coverage for missing work and optical and dental. It is far from perfect but its better than nothing. This wouldn't even begin to help if I was in a serious accident and more importantly if I had any symptoms caused by my genetic disorder they will not be covered however I feel better knowing I can at least visit a doctor again.

To answer number one, this is less an item of choice and more an item of need. When I am unconscious an ambulance isn't a want or a choice any longer and if I am bleeding profusely or need immediate care it isn't about which hospital is in my managed care network that bothers my unconscious body or my emt its which is closest, which can save me! And if I am not in immediate peril or have a specific condition it is about choosing the specialist or hospital that has the best chance or shortest wait its allowing me to choose between the many factors in what will provide me the best care instead of only having one or two managed care choices.

I think some rationing of care is needed. In certain areas for instance more people are dying of skin cancer. A consultation for a melanoma can take days or weeks but a botox injection an hour if you have the cash. Americans have the second shortest wait for elective procedures next to Germany. That is elective, we have a much longer wait then the rest of the developed world for life saving treatment. If you don't find cancer early your chances of survival are hurt. I could care less if a breast surgery takes several months, if that means hundreds are going to get cancer treatment. Early and preventative treatment drive costs down.

And of the overhead cost I am very confident. Other governmental models have less than five percent of the total costs where our current model is consumed by not twenty percent but perhaps upwards of twenty I choose a conservative model for the sake of the argument.

Any augmented care would have to be for elective procedures or for overseas travel, or for premium payments for lost wages childcare or other services provided I mean there could be any number of supplemental coverages.

No. I think a tax credit or something of that nature might suffice if supplemental coverage is elected but I think universal health care is part of what drives down the cost. If the supplemental was more expensive than the single player plan. If someone has the money to buy into it than they should if they don't like the coverage and seek others and they have the money for it than fine and maybe their are incentives tax and otherwise for pursuing that coverage. Subsidies for care would have to come for those who can not afford to purchase the care. If people who could not normally afford care had regular check ups and had preventative care then the savings alone would justify the subsidy. We all pay increased premiums due to emergency care and we all have longer emergency waits both filling out needless forms and with care that could have been prevented. As I said earlier there were 100,000 medically preventable deaths in America last year more than anywhere in the developed world and actualy more than in most of the developing world per capita. Time and life are factors in universal health care not just cost but the truth is time and lives lost have a quantitative cost to the economy and in factors such as malpractice suits and they have intangible effects on morale of doctors. There are many reasons to persue this model and none simply none other than corporate profit to continue our current model.

This is only my oppinion. After all I am not a healthcare professional and though my parents were poor they found a way to cover me and my siblings.

Hey Jawny...I've taken a different approach with you in the past, but right now, I feel like saying SCREW YOU. But, I won't, so pretend I didn't just tell you what I was thinking.

Look dude, not everyone who is uninsured is uninsured by choice. For you to generalize the 47 million people who are uninsured into a group of irresponsible club hoppers...well...it's reprehensible, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I am 26 years old. I have been to a total of 3 clubs, and I visited each one only once. It has been at least 5 years since my last "outing".

Since you know what I'm not, let me tell you a little about what I AM, so that you don't have to assume:

I am a small business owner, and I have helped other entrepreneurs in starting their businesses as well.

I am a student, and by all accounts, a "good girl".

I am uninsured, and I don't recall the last time I visited a doctor or a dentist.

How do I fit into your stereotype of the uninsured?

If I told you that I want insurance, but cannot afford it, would you believe me?

I can tell you that it is not by choice. I would like to have insurance...I really would. It's just prohibitively expensive.

I won't bore you with the details, but trust me, I'd like to have insurance. I'd like to go to the doctor or the dentist when I am in pain and afraid.

I was bitten by a dog about 3 weeks ago, and I cared for my wounds at home. Can you guess why?

I know this won't make a difference to you, because you are cold and heartless, or at least that's all I can see.

You keep saying "I get it", but you don't.

More still:

I come from a very poor upbringing. I still have scars from wounds that were never treated...because I wasn't taken to a doctor.

Is an uninsured and helpless child with gaping wounds your idea of the America you know?

Jawny, all humans are valuable. We all have something to offer, and we are all unique miracles. For you to reach your full potential, you need to have a heart, and be able to empathize with those that you now condemn and forsake.

Universal health care makes sense economically, but it shouldn't be about that...it should be about people, and values, and humanity.

We can still be profitable, but we can be ethical first. One day you will see...if the current system allows you to live long enough, which I pray it does.

Jawny, reading your comments breaks my heart, and leaves me on the verge of tears. Your callous heartlessness towards your fellow man is the worst side effect of capitalism that I can think of, and I look forward to the day where men are seen as equals, and not judged based solely on their income or lack thereof.

Please, think what you will, but recognize that each man, and each woman, and each child, are unique. They are individuals. If you were to meet them, you would feel for them, because then you would see that they are real, and they breathe, and they feel pain, that they work harder than you could imagine, and they cry real tears wrought with real, and often undeserved, suffering.

If it were you who were in need, they would certainly cry those same tears for you. I cry for you.

Read, reflect, and ask yourself what this means to YOU...

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

jawnybnsc, how is what your saying different from what is already a reality. What I mean is that it sounds as if you would like corporate capitalism and business in general to be free from limitations and standards. With all of the loopholes carefully designed into the current capitalist system we already have given freedom to the corporations to do just about anything. That is not working so well. So again, how is your idea different?

Jawnybnsc,

What an idiotic argument. Your asserrtion that the trickery used by the insurance industry in using the "more choices" phrase (which they have used in ALL lines of insurance products) is MOST CERTAINLY on point and deals directly with their dishonesty in marketing more profitable and less valuable policies in all lines of insurance.

Now your over-used "red herring" and "strawman" defenses are collapsing because you want to seperate the dishonest marketing of homeowners policies from EXACTLY what they are proposing with health insurance "CHOICES".

You are one guy who really shows his frustration and deperation when he can't use his "free market" rhetoric to address other ways insurers cloud the market and fool consumers.

News Flash, big fella, the dishonesty is industry-wide and what sells well in one sector is immediately picked up by those insurers that are lobbying regulators and selling consumers in another sector.

I'm just dying for you to tell me they don't cross market lines with their gimmicks to profiteer. So come on back and tell me that.

ocanada,

Let me first thank you for actually sticking to the subject and adding something to the debate.

You make a few assertions about government provided services that I think bear more scrutiny. Here are some questions that your arguments bring to mind:

1) What gives you confidence that single payer would give the consumer more control and what form does that control take?

2) Do you believe that under single payer that all of the cost control will come from elimination of overhead, or do you think that some rationing of care will be necessary?

3) How much confidence do you have in the "20 percent" reduction in cost through elimination of overhead that we often hear about from proponents of single payer?

4) Have you considered what the effect on cost would be if Americans actually paid for their health care?

5) Have you considered what the effect decoupling health insurance from employment would have?

6) Why do technological advances, innovation and increased efficiencies in medicine result in higher costs, while in every other sector of the economy they result in lower costs?
7) If, as you say, single payer gives us more choice, what effect would a two tiered system have on consumers who wanted to pay for care with their own dollars? (This question depends on your answer to 8 and 9 . . . I just thought of it first).

8) Would someone who didn't want to participate in the single payer regime be able to opt out?

9) If not, why not?

TYIA for earnest dialog. Sorry Inofuilwell . . . that pretty much excludes you from this conversation.

More distortions from Inofuilwell. You continue to argue against things that I haven't argued for. You continue to bring up subjects that have absolutely noting to do with this topic, to argue that I have defended this or that and in so doing to paint me as something that I'm not. Red herring(s) . . . who gives a crap. I know what you're doing and it's dishonest. Now we're talking about homeowner's insurance? Before it was utilities. And you have the temerity to claim that you're not throwing out strawmen and red herring(s)? AMAZING!!!

Good golly Miss Molly! A whole 'nother pod with Jawnybnsc using his same old tired arguments. It is great to see you guys have dispatched him and his phony charges that all the counterpoints are "strawmen arguments", "red herring" (which should actually be PLURAL since the expression is used to indicate the presence presence of a single "red" herring a school of hundreds or thousands of herring that drawn attention to the red one and he is using that single phenomenon to describe "many" of your argumentS. If those arguments were attempts to move the conversation or the debate away from the original subject then they would be many SINGLE red herrings that took attention away from the whole school of herring - or group.)

It is sort of like those people who write that they "could care less" instead of the correct expression that they "couldn't care less".

Well, anyway, congrats on chasing the single biggest apologist on this site for the egregiously dishonest insurance industry on to another pod to repeat his "give these guys a chance to improve the system" rhetoric.

Yeah, we need to do that because they've "ALMOST" got it right after 20 years of lobbying to get looser and less consumer-oriented regulatory concessions in every state in the union! Yeah, the secret is to deregulate them even more so they can compete and we all know competition creates a better product for consumers.

I don't know whether that worn-out concept is more falsely used by Libertarians or far-right fascists.

One thing is for sure and that is there is only one industry where deregulation hjas helped consumers with lower prices and that is the Airline Industry.

To challenge THAT statement he would have to produce lower utility bills after utility deregulation in may states (Truth - deregulated Texas charges 12.5 cents per kilowatt hour to consumers while regulated Oklahoma charges consumers 7.5 cents per kilowatt hour.

He would also have to show us lower homeowners insurance rates in deregulated Texas while showing us higher homeowners rates in more regulated California but guess what? In Texas, where building costs are traditionally lower than California's building costs by as much as 50%, the homeowners rates are the highest in Texas of any state in the nation - even higher than hurricane-ridden Florida where building costs and land are also higher than in Texas.

Yes, when the apologists, lobbyists, trade associations and insurers are use that consumer-friendly sounding phrase "MORE CHOICES", the only choice they are really willing to give consumers is for consumers to get to buy policies that are laughingly referred to by consumer advpocates as "Cafeteria Style Policies".

With them you get to CHOOSE your coverages and get a lower rate but if you look at the policy the one they're giving you is replacing, it was an "all risk" policy with named exclusions. The new one they are letting you CHOOSE is one that starts out with NOTHING covered but fire wind and hail and then you add the coverages you want. When you get through adding the same coverages you had in the "all risk" policy you wind up spending about 40% MORE for the same insurance you had before you could CHOOSE to opt out of the coverages you once had included in the premiums.

Since consumers almost never have the expertise or experience most actuaries and claims people have, they wind up CHOOSING policies with big gaps in coverage.

Health Care Is A Right. You bet it is. Take a look at Dennis Kucinich's plan. True Universal Health Care. http://current.com/items/88850559_this_is_the_universal_heath_care_plan_we_need

My head is spinning there my friend. So many strawmen and red herring . . . how to address them all? You know what . . . take it . . . I'll just pass and wait for my next unwitting victim.

For jawnybnsc,

Part 2...

Flu Shots for this year rattled a lot of nerves. You must have heard the Flu Shots people got this year are not as effective. Perhaps you never got a flu shot? That's fine. There are those that must have a Flu Shot and I respect that.

When I heard the Flu Shots are not as effective, I got to thinking..."How many people got Flu Shots? How much did they pay?" I then got to thinking: "The Government SHOULD pay for our Healthcare." Here is why: Those defective products, for example, such as food and other consumer goods being let into this country that contain 'lead' and other dangerous chemicals can make people sick. Right? Why would the Government ''allow" those products in? People are put in danger because our Government will NOT, repeat "NOT" do more to strengthen to make our borders safer.

Sure. There are inspectors to do that. Where are they? There are not enough of them. I would apply for a position. There are no port inspector jobs that I know of here in Boston.

NAFTA creating jobs? I don't think so.

Do you really think the country that sent us their goods will care what is in their exports? Would you care about what you bought off the shelf? What about Immigrants working for you - if any? Were they quarentined?

Sure, there was a just a cough. Would it concern you?

Should you be concerned? Do you like the idea of Illegal Immigrants coming here to get Healthcare at the expense of Tax Payers? Think of the many women arriving here 'Pregnant' at the right moment to give birth. Tax Money pays for that.

Why would OUR Government do little to protect its citizens? Immigrants are coming in with who knows what for a nasty bug. And the border rules are not so strict (think about the two border guards on the US/Mexican Border put in prison for 'doing thier job' last year).

OK, you don't want the government involved for looking out for the American People? Not strengthening our Borders? Fine. Let more items enter this country uninspected - though they were shipped as safe, they could have been tampered in some way during shipping - and NOT inspected upon arrival at our ports. Let Immigrants with potential health problems in without cause for quarentine.

Did you see the movie "SiCKO"?

Other countries with a better system are laughing at us.

You are right. I should leave. Would you pay for ALL of my moving expenses? Think of the investment you will make. After all, you are self-employed...and you are tired of the American Government looking after us, when many people can't look after themselves and it is NOT their fault.

I am aware Tax Dollars pay for the Free Healthcare people are asking/demanding.

To be clear: I am 6th Generation Black American. Blacks ARE and have been Socially/Financially Opressed for decades. Only a SMALL Percentage of Blacks are not. So, say what you will about that.

You said: "I am very happy with my plan. I save money and when I need to pay for medical care, I pay for it myself. I am covered for catastrophic care, which is exactly what insurance should pay. Nothing more."

Agreed. Your coverage should pay for your medical bills. You are fine with that.

Not every one can afford the plan you have. I stand with them.

You also said: "Those that can pay, should pay. You want to reduce costs? Make individuals responsible for their healthcare costs. Return to a free market system and stop demanding that someone else provide for you what you should be willing to provide for yourself."

That said, I don't smoke, drink or do drugs. But still, people can get sick no matter what they do to stay healthy.

How do I take care of my health if I am in the same building living with smokers below me. You think I can 'just move'? You think I can just tell them 'please don't smoke'?

On our Transit System in Boston, the no smoking laws are ignored. Transit employees will smoke on the train.

Cough! Cough! I cannot afford a car to avoid the smokers. Car pool? HA! None of my collegues live close enough to give me a ride. And, too many of them just think of themselves and their car. In other words, if I were to seek a ride home...NONE will be generous to say "I can give you a ride to the station".

I KNOW who my friends are...and they are NOT what I call 'friends'.

End of Part One...

Dude . . . you're totally missing the point.

1) The healthcare that you keep saying is FREE is not FREE. It will be paid for by taxpayers like me. I wasn't talking about the rebate. I was talking about the fact that at your income level, you don't pay very much, if anything, in taxes and you get a rebate every year. As a business owner and someone who is self-employed, it is I who will pay for your "FREE" healthcare. I don't expect any thanks, just acknowledge the fact that your "FREE" healthcare is paid for by someone else.

2) None of this is meant to disparage your job situation in any way. You're working and doing what you can. I have no problem with that. The fact remains . . . you are NOT a taxpayer. That said, you seem to expect a lot from your government, while very little is required from you.

That is the problem with our system and with giving more of our economy, money and power over to government control. It pits people like me against you. In the competition for resources in this redistributionist system, my loss is your gain. It's not right, but it is a natural consequence of this slide toward socialism we're on.

I am very happy with my plan. I save money and when I need to pay for medical care, I pay for it myself. I am covered for catastrophic care, which is exactly what insurance should pay. Nothing more. Those that can pay, should pay. You want to reduce costs? Make individuals responsible for their healthcare costs. Return to a free market system and stop demanding that someone else provide for you what you should be willing to provide for yourself.

jawnybnsc,

Thanks for the reply. But you have it all wrong about me.

I am not getting a ride. I hold two jobs and still earn below $30,000 annually. You must think I get financial assistance, too. No. I NEVER asked for it.

You must think I have never asked for a raise. I have. I never got one. You must think I should get a new job at higher pay. I have searched. I get "The most we can pay you is $9.00 an hour." But I get $12.00 and no raise in 8 years. You must think I am doing 'somthing wrong' when I job search.

I did do something wrong. I stayed in to school to get an education. I speak 'proper English'. I went to college to continue my education. I learned as many job skills as possible...for an impressive resume.

I will tell you, and not to get off topic, that Tax Rebate plan will NOT work. I will NEVER get such a check.

Free Health Care. You sound like you are against it. Let me ask you a few questions:

1) How do you feel about former First Lady Nancy Reagan having a fall at home and her Medical Bills are automatically paid for by OUR Tax Dollars?

2) How would you feel if one of your elderly familiy members had a fall at home. Would THEY get the same coverage? No. Some of that medical bill will get paid for but guess who has to pay the rest? YOU!

3) Do you like the coverage you have?

4) Would you rather have the same FREE Care all US Presidents have? How about Mayors, Governors and their families (children, for example)?

5) If you have kids (I have none and I am not ashamed to say I am glad I have none)

6) Did you know buying insurance NEVER pays 100% of the medical bill? Sure you can 'buy insurance'. The insurance pays for some of the bill. But you - yes YOU - will have to pay the rest.

Think about it: You pay $1,000 Anually for insurance. You get a medical bill for $10,000. YOUR insurance plan covers $2,000 of it. YOU pay the rest out of YOUR pocket. Why. Because Insurance Companies look for ways to SAVE Money. That means your claim is DENIED.

7) Where does the savings go? To the Greedy CEO as a 'Year End Bonus'. Meanwhile, you are dealing with what to pay for while paying for a Medical Bill that should have been paid for 100% by YOUR insurance provider.

8) So are you happy with the current plan of paying for the rest of the bill yourself?

9) Would you rather get Healthcare for FREE or pay for it? Remember, insurance NEVER pays it in full. It is eaither partial pay or 'Denied' (you pay the entire bill).

10) Notice the President of the United States NEVER seems to worry about his medical bills?

11) How would you feel if the president got treated for the same illness you have...but the president got it for FREE? Meanwhile, you are at home in need of treatment but you don't have the money for it.

12) How do you feel about the news reporting "The president is resting after his operation." And you cannot rest after yours..you have to get to work or lose your coverage. Or get taxed every month for NOT having it?

13) Having read all of this, do you really think I have it easy and you don't?

14) Have you written to your Congressman/Woman to complain? I DID!

I have it easy? Think again.

spoon,

You can talk about the census and uninsured numbers all you want. The plain truth of the matter is that many of the uninsured are voluntarily uninsured. When given a choice between weekends club hopping and paying for health insurance, many of your uninsured will be found gettin' their drink on at the club.

FREE Healthcare?!!!

FREE?!!!

While you're whippin' up that next latte, Mr. ModelTrainGuy, dreaming about how you're going to spend that nice tax refund you're sure to get and all the nice things that Uncle Sam's Gravy Train is going to bring you . . . remember that there are people out here who are paying for your ride. People like me who build and grow businesses and who send FAT TAX CHECKS to Uncle Sam EVERY QUARTER. People who provide jobs for people like you who pay NO TAXES while complaining that the government just isn't doing enough for you.

FREE?!!!

Hardly!!!

I agree. The current system is no good. No one should buy Health Insurance.

Period.

The Healthcare the President of the USA gets is paid for by our Tax Dollars. Ever since I became aware the president and other 'elected leaders' get it for free...I asked myself 'Why do THEY get it for FREE and we have to pay for it'?

Remember "The Flintstones" episode (when 'Pebbles' is born) when a guy is seen whinning down the corridor 'The pain! The pain!' When Fred asked about him, the receptionist responded "He got the Doctors Bill".

It used to be funny then. But today, in the 21st Century, it is NOT funny at all!

I seem to remember asking "why is the care not FREE?" Even though it is just a cartoon?

No parent should have to decide between buying food or buying medicine for a child. What kind of nation asks a parent to make such a decision? It's shameful. Period.

Thank you Mr. Gore for everything you do. Just want to say that I have great health insurance But I still cannot afford healthcare. The insurance for one thing is already so expensive and it keeps going up. The co pay has increased and so has Dr. visits. I just cannot afford to go to the Dr. I am ill with cysts on my ovaries. I have know about them for about 2 yrs now. However, I just cannot afford to have surgery. I am a single parent of 2 and everything already is so expensive. Job opportunity is not great around here. Gas is crazy in price. Food has gone up. I don't want to get on welfare and I probably don't qualify anyway. Anyhow, people now @ days are living paycheck by paycheck. People are doing crazy things just to survive. Wounded Vets cannot even see a regular Dr. without going to the V.A. hospital and their pention sucks.... Why does our gov. treat their people so badly. They rather help other nations first and let ours suffer. This is crazy. Soon there will not be a middle class group. Just POOR and RICH. Because the poor keep getting poor-er and the Rich keep getting Richer.

I couldn't agree more with you - sorry I voted for Bush. Why aren't the current Democratic nominees supporting this?

How about a Gore/Edwards ticket?

Brilliant! Look at Canada, GB, France... I think every American deserves to be cared for when in need. Does anyone really think that people who can't afford health care should be left to wither on the vine?

Really?

BTW: Not only low to lower middle income Americans will benefit from Universal Healthcare but most of us will benefit. Ever had an operation? A long term illness? It could bankrupt the best of us.

Think about it and vote for someone that will create a system for EVERYONE to get the medical help they need... regardless of financial status.

Obama represents the Audacity of False Hope on health care. Specifically, his plan says health insurers would have to "JUSTIFY" charging large premium differences...as if financial discrimination against people when they are sick and at their most vulnerable is justifiable at all. With friends like this who needs enemies?
Other piece of legislation he sponsored says the rest of us will have access to the same health care plan as he and other members of Congress have "except for the way (we) are rated" (sigh). He leaves that part out but I'm pretty sure he knows it's in there, and neglects to mention that federal employee plans cost more than the $12,100/year national average.
Hillary's plan says insurance companies will be prohibited from charging "large" premium differences based on "modified" community rating, whatever that means, but do understand it is the only loophole health insurance companies need. SHAME on them. Both Obama and Clinton swear they will NOT support Single Payer (Single Pool*) and insist profit-driven health insurance middlemen must be part of any solution. (*I prefer framing it as Single Pool, using the consumer rather than administrative picture. Single Payer means Single Pool.)
John Edwards's plan says insurers will have to charge "fair" premiums, which admittedly is a bit wishy-washy too, but at least his rhetoric says that he believes Single Payer (Single Pool) is obviously the best way to go, that the inordinate greed of insurance companies is the main part of the problem (which it is), and if forced to work on a level playing field, health insurers will lose (which they will).
But HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: Edwards is the only one of the top three that even wants to create a level playing field with REAL (not fake) community rating and guaranteed issue. The difference is Edwards "gets" what needs to be done while Obama and Clinton don't. Both (and all the Republicans running) want us to believe that the problem is the solution when it isn't. American lives and the future of our economy depend upon voters not being too busy to notice or care about the devil in their details. Edwards is the only viable candidate running for President who is even headed in the right direction. All the others are guilty of misleading on real health care reform, and we simply cannot afford to be misled any longer.

Great view, to bad your not running for president!!!!!!!!

Mrs. Jetson, If your husband is self-employed in the Uninsured States of America, reliable health insurance does not exist unless you live in New York or a couple of other states with some limited protection....and it's still outrageously expensive. You might as well take whatever they want to charge you and flush it down the toilet. At least you will not have wasted your time AND your money. Check out www.honestmedicine.com for an in-depth audio interview with the health insurance whistle-blower from the movie SICKO. His article is titled something to the effect: "Small Group Health Insurance: the Scam, the Sham and the Shame of It".

We, as Americans have a lot to be proud of, but dont get confused. We dont plateu when we reach a certain point in how "awsome" we think we are. How barbaric of us as individuals and our government alike to not feel the absolute responsibility to make sure someone doesnt die if you could help it. In the past 50 years we have become so individualy elitist that it has blinded us to our own human demands. Im not a saint, belive me, but when I have to argue a point like this it makes me feel so embarassed for our country. If we have enough money to be in a war and destroy lives for what some of us believe in, dont allow the rest of the world think we arent doing it for our betterment. If we dont take care of each other as a whole, what the hell are we fighting for? Lets stand up and make sure we come out of this as Americans. It's a country full of people that I am very proud and blessed to be a part of.

al gore is my hero i would absolutely vote for you and this time you would win too go green and stay healthy via universal health care

al gore is sexy

Mr. Gore I am sad at the fact you are not the president and that I feel you could have made so many changes in our great nation that no other president would have taken the steps to in these days, Can only hope you run again. I strongly agree that the health care that this country has now is just a huge money making machine with no real goals in helping the people that use or need health care, thank you again for the impact you have on our country and also the world. Because we are all apart of it.

Al Gore must win this coming election. Talk about someone who actually uses REASON and FACTS. I'm so tired of getting fed &$%^ through the government controlled newsmedia and watching these bought out officials run our government.

I just hope that if elected, Gore doesn't get a price tag put on him by the healthcare industry, or any other industry for that matter.

Gore is the US's only hope IMO.

I'm a fiscal conservative, social progressive (some may find that a little contradictory but I don't). One of the biggest reasons we can't build a decent car in this country, is because so much of the cost of building one goes into car companies paying for insurance. This is probably also one of the reasons they can't build cleaner cars sooner.
As a person with a disability (I'm an epileptic), and a middle age male with the usual high blood pressure and cholesterol I would probably be paying something like $700 to $1000 a month for meds. But I'm one of those lucky people with "decent" insurance.
I don't know how the religious right can preach about family values (which translated into average Joe language means only that they are anti gay marriage, and abortion). How can such an influential group that claims to reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ say anything about family values when it stands for stopping abortion, but would leave the mother and child high and dry if they didn't have insurance.
I agree that a one payer system is a moral obligation if we are going to live up to the values we claim to aspire to.

I like Al Gore as someone who is not running for president. I also totally agree with him here. When someone runs for office, they turn into a giant pandering tool. He's better as an activist.

dont_taze_me_bro, Couldn't be talking bout me. I've thought you were pig headed several times, never thought about color or race.

I understand that many of you think that those who disagree with you must be stupid, or selfish, or at best badly misinformed. One gentle-person on here suggested that my usage of colloquialisms and a less than scholarly vocabulary identified me to be among the ignorant. He/she went so far as to (almost) disparage me because of his/her assumptions in re my race.

Lest I say too much and inadvertently prove my antagonist correct, I'll close here with a link and a reminder that the treatise that this URL links to was written in a time when the term 'liberal' meant the same as what we today refer to as 'classical liberal' or 'laissez-faire,' and hadn't adopted the connotations enjoyed by present day American liberalism

http://www.mises.org/etexts/mises/og.asp

I also realize the attention span of many American's under the age of 50 is not what it could be, this is unfortunate, but understandable. That said, the treatise therein is also available, on that site, as a Adobe .pdf document, free to be downloaded and perused at ones leisure.

I'm thinking the time has come to forget about a Gore candidacy. We need to get behind someone that is actually running again or the people we once supported or the ones we thought of as a back up won't be in the running anymore because their support was/is shattered by this diversion. John Edwards has worked very hard for my support for a very long time, he deserves it. He would make a great President. He came from working class people and has not forgotten it. He hasn't got as much experience as Al Gore but they are the same kind of people. He isn't taking corporate money so I'm going to send in my bit again to help him out.

Are there any filmmakers out there? I was thinking about how and where I've heard so many of the health care horror stories I know. Most came to me when I went into small businesses and asked the owner or person working there, "How's your health insurance?" I almost created a riot in the hardware store the other day when I asked the fellow behind me if he was a farmer (because he was talking about harvesting fields). Then I asked him "the question" and all heck broke loose. Another time a farmer was leaving an insurance agent's office crying. The agent told me he had to tell the farmer that after 30 years of paying for his health policy, it didn't cover cancer (and his wife had just been diagnosed). I think a riveting documentary could be made simply by going into small businesses (and not-for-profits) around the country and askng the question, "How's your health insurance?" I think the results could have the potential to be fascinating. Reality TV with a twist. From a completelly different twist, a Reality TV show might be a good way to pick an Independent Presidential candidate. Potential candidates could debate issues each week, and the audience could then pick a winner until a final candidate is chosen. Sell commercials and use the profits from them to finance the campaign. Or not. Just dreaming again, I suppose.

You make me smile, Marilyn Murray. I always wondered why everyone who professes to believe in the "right to life" doesn't also support the access to health care as an integral part of the ability (right) to stay alive (life). Some times I just don't understand much.

Don't forget the Republicans are at a disadvantage they have lost the Christian Conservatives. They are up for grabs and would vote for the Democrats as long as we run someone that hasn't married several times with a cousin or two in the mix.

If the Republicans run Guilliani (sp?) there could well be a four-way split. If Unity 08 runs a Republican like Chuck Hegel with Al Gore, they could win. I know it wouldn't be my "dream team" but I'd vote for Al now any day any way.....if he'll run.

A third party would just split the vote and allow a Republican win. Not wishing them any bad luck, I wish they would go away.

Unity '08 says they are going to put a Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidate on the ballot in all 50 states. Voting for these candidates will be in June 2008, (online only I believe). I have not seen a list of candidates, don't know if there is one. We should ask Al if he would run as a Unity '08 candidate for President. Maybe we could get somethink (left mis-type because I like it) going.

Agreed. Our health care system is a GIANT mess.

I also want to Thank you Mr Gore, for all that you have done for this country and yes, please run for PRESIDENT. We need you, just as much and more than we did in 04.....
You are totally correct that millions of people a year go without healthcare and that if you make more than 8.50 per hour at your job, you make to much for any assistance from your state agencies, even if you are dying.

I agree with your words Mr. Gore. As I said in my CURRENT posting "Al Gore the Environmental Aspostol", you are not out of love with politics. You are right where you want to be, in the middle of it all...changing views and thoughts so that we as people can have the necessities of life. Um, also there is a recent posted "Al Gore Petition" on CURRENT.

We're not really sick (yet, thank goodness) but somewhere we crossed over the line and became "risky". As formerly solidly middle class small business owners, that means everything we've worked for our entire lives (which is a considerable but not an incredible amount) is at risk, including our lives. We went from living "The American Dream" to "An American Nightmare" virtually overnight. I spent hours and hours (and hours) looking at ALL of our options for health "insurance". Reliable health coverage simply is not available to us, and I wouldn't trust another health insurer if our lives depended upon it. I did spend some serious time looking into emmigrating because of this issue. (It's not that easy.) Still I know we are the lucky ones because we're not sick, disabled, bankrupt or dead (yet); we just live in constant terror. It is enough to make you sick. I wonder how Al is feeling?

Until you get sick or have children health care is pretty back burner. Wouldn't it be nice to listen to music on the radio, See real news on Television. Most of all not to have to worry night and day that the wrong candidate wll get the nomination? I'm getting numb with worry. I just wish Al would say yes, or no.

I just saw a post about environmental and land issues over at Daily Kos, where the main point seemed to be how great Al is, the crowds he draws, etc. Everyone is going on about. "Is he or isn't he (running)?". For whatever reason the people there seem much more worked up over the environment than they are about health care. It made me yearn for "the good old days" when my "most important" political issues weren't about immediate, life-threatening ones either. I like John Edwards a lot too, but not quite as much as I like his wife Elizabeth.

Spoon, I have to believe he does. I love and trust John Edwards, I can't believe Al Gore would take support from a thoroughly decent excellent candidate just for fun. I think he seriously intends to run. He has to know he has thrown a wrench into Edwards support. He wouldn't do that unless he is serious. I would support Al Gore first because he is an absolute sure win and has more experience without losing any of the good that John Edwards has. We have to trust that he is as decent as we believe him to be. All I ask is he choose Edwards for his running mate and get on with the damned program. NOW!

Do you think he cares?

Imagine eight years of a Gore Administration and eight years of either Edwards or Kucinich. They could repair all the damage and rebuild the neglected infrastructure. Get a hold on global warming with wind, solar, and innovation. We could build a fast rail service we so desperately need. Maybe even revive the electric car. Social Security would be protected and we could have Medicare expanded and improved to include everyone. The middle class would rise again. We can do this with Al Gore at the helm.

(Fat ankles too..definitely "not cute".) Democrats threw a strike against Kucinich in the debates with the Indian Reparations question, then another with the ShirleyMcClaine as Godmother with UFO statement, and on top of those he swung at air and missed by having to be told what year it is. Three strikes; he's definitely O-U-T of the running for Pres. Whether he was ever really in is another question. I may vote for him to send a message to the Democrats if I have no other option. He's doing great in the House. I hope he stays there forever and keeps speaking out for "we the people" because hardly anyone else seems to be doing so these days. We could use a few more voices speaking out for us with even more credibility. AL.... ARE YOU THERE?

I just saw an interesting article and blog going on over at Huffington Post called "Why Not Single Payer"? (Part 2). No one seems to think Al is an option. I wonder what they'd all be saying if they thought he was, and if they knew about this video?

Yes, unfortunately cute counts or Kucinich would be walking away with it. Thank God and genetics Al is cute. It's just that he is pissing me off by not announcing. I keep telling everyone Obama and Hillary are closet Republicans, besides Hillary has fat ankles. We will come up with an acceptable candidate in spite of the media and the DLC. Al Gore owes me for the last vote I gave him. There I said it and now I feel better.

I've lost just about all respect for Obama, and what little I had for Hillary is gone. I keep telling people what we need are Dennis Kucinich's ideas in Tom Selleck's body. (Al's pretty cute if cute counts.) The one thing we know for sure about Dennis is that he's "Not for Sale". I used to think Al was (for sale) but now I think he must not be (yay). Did you notice how calculatingly the Democratic Party targeted Kucinich in the debates? (Boy, have things changed for the worse since the parties took over the debates from the League of Women Voters....) The political machines must be a bit more afraid of Kucinich than they let on, or they would ignore him.

Spoon, Obama can't carry the South. These people left the Democratic party when they registered the blacks to vote because they didn't want to be in the same party as "them." They are stuck in a time warp. It's sad, but true. I'd like to see a black person (not necessarily Obama) or a woman (not necessarily Hillary) win the Presidency someday, I just don't think we are civilized enough to vote for the person not the color or gender yet.

Plan B: If you're not willing to be the hero we need, then will you talk to Oprah and see if she can convince Barak to step up to the people's plate? An injection of truth, honesty and courage is just the magic his campaign is lacking, but needs, in order for him to be able to hit a home run. I really like Edwards better, but he has a bit more catching up to do in order to be able to win. (He'd make a great running mate for you.) Maybe there's someone out there we haven't thought of yet, just like I hadn't considered you before you made this video? We just need a real hero, for a change. If you won't do it, will you at least help us find a pitch hitter? You made my light bulb turn on there for a while. I really think you're "The One" but not if you won't or don't want to be. Knowing that you did what you could do (more than making a video or a movie, or even helping create the internet, which you did) should make a big difference when you look back at the big picture.

I don't think it would take that much to convince a firm majority of Americans that the health insurance industry doesn't give a lick (don't get sick) about what is best for our people, or our country's physical or financial health. Everyone knows all they care about are their own humongously huge bottom lines. The fact is, no one who has the people's ears has even seriously tried (yet). Those who feel they have good health coverage now either think they do and don't, or are a member of a large enough group that they may or may not have real protection if they need it. Insurers depend upon the fact that most people ("critical mass") won't get sick and find out; and the ones that do, can and will be separated from the herd if at all possible. If consumers are not upset over how much health insurance is costing them now, it's because either their coverage isn't worth the paper on which it's written, or they have no idea how much it's costing in the first place. The trick is for Medicare to pay doctors at least as well, more reliably and with less paperwork than insurers do now. Then we'll have all care providers on our side too. (That's what care providers are afraid of, if they are afraid at all: that they won't make as much money. Those fears can be remedied. They have no autonomy now to lose, and would gain that too.) I can think of ways to keep all providers and patients honest, whether or not they all want to be. With the savings from insurers we could easily afford to cover everyone and compensate providers more than fairly, as well as pay truly deserving workers such as CNA's and nurses even more than they're earning now (which generally speaking isn't enough for the work they're doing). That would encourage a lot more people to want to go into these professions. Doctors would find out that they would truly enjoy being able to practice Medicine again without all the extraneous baloney they have to deal with now, and without having to discriminate against patient care based on what coverage they do (or don't) have. Explain to the voters the truth about how much insurers are making off of our collective pain and suffering, and health insurers will be gone in the time it takes an election to cycle (one year from Tuesday would be a bit late but better than five, or God forbid, nine more years). A revised series of "Harriet and Lou" commercials done from the harsh reality viewpoints of health care consumers all over America (I and others can give you plenty of real story lines to tell) would help a lot. It doesn't take a genius; the people would understand (they're hungry and begging for an honest politician), but apparently it does take a real hero to have what it takes to stand up and tell the truth to the people. Not just anyone COULD do what this country needs, but Al could. Unfortunately I'm not seeing Al stepping up to the hero's plate. I thought maybe there for a while we had a real one, a real American hero on our horizon, but I'm losing hope (again....sigh). The clouds and haze of smoke and mirrors are rolling back in again. Thanks for what, Al? If you're not running, as far as I'm concerned you can take your little video and stick it where the sun don't shine. (We're hoping for a bit more effort on your part.) Plus that's where I'll be, chewing on my fist.

stop fuckin cryin.... he is the vice president..... if you want to get him into office, you know what to to. Bush is a pain in the ass anyway... :)

I realize there will be a few people that have what they believe is good health care coverage. Who will want to opt out of a single payer system like HR 676. But let me remind you we rank # 37 in quality of health care for all. Down from #1. Never the less. A few opting out is not a problem. As long as all other Americans are automatically covered at birth through life. Unless they choose to opt out of HR 676. The government takes out 1.4% from your paycheck now for Medicare. All they have to do is substitute for HR 676 what they now take out of your paychecks for private health insurance. Remember, we already spend more on health care than any other country in the world. Right Now. We are being ripped off. And raped.

The SCHIP program is a desperately needed program for Americas children. But with the impending EXTINCTION of Americas children. And their current catastrophic health care condition. SCHIP needs to be extended to cover all of Americas children, immediately. Parents should have no hesitations, or financial worries about seeking medical care for their children. Whenever they have any concerns about their children's health. Especially in the richest country in the world. I would submit that any President, or politician that fails to do this for the children. Betrays their most solemn oath to protect the American people. Especially when you consider that all other developed countries have done this. And that we are the richest country in the world.

So get on it America. Get it done. You have been doing great over the past several months. Keep it up. And step it up. You have to force it, and take it. It's the right fight, and the right thing to do. Now is the time... Take no prisoners. 2 of 2

For the first time in the history of America. The life expectancy of today's children is less than that of their parents. This is catastrophic. And our infant mortality is equal to that of a third world country. Current U.S. adult life expectancy is down from #1 to #42. And dropping fast. These facts are what is known as EXTINCTION! indicators. These are the early signs of the final phase of the EXTINCTION of the American people.

You have to take the profit motive out of health care delivery. The profit motive does not work with health care. Or any other essential public service like police, and fire. The sooner everyone faces this truth. The sooner you will be able to adopt a real solution to the problem. The days of paying for health care out of pocket are at an end. Just like the mob days of paying for protection out of pocket came to an end.

HR 676 is the way to go. Single payer Universal National Health Care For All. Medicare for all. Accept no substitutes. The sooner you face this. The sooner you begin to heal the Cancer of private for profit medicine that is destroying this entire society. Other developed countries realized this years ago. It's a no-brainer now. See sickocure.org

Money, greed, and the profit motive has just decimated health care in America. And killed, and injured millions needlessly. Just for profit. But that is what large amounts of money, greed, and a lust for power always does. No one is immune from this corrupting power. The smart ones know this. And avoid letting them-self be put in compromising positions. But that is easier said. Than done. And very few succeed.

Most in the US go into medicine primarily to become wealthy. That is who the medical schools mostly choose. Most of the medical schools faculty are in bed with the drug companies, and others. And like the story of Dr. Faustus. They end up selling their soles. One compromise at a time. Until Lucifer owns them.

In medicine. Compromised care means. Injury, disability, and death. It's sad really. But HR 676 can fix this disgrace. Like it has in other developed countries. The only question is. How many more millions will be hurt, injured, and killed. And how many more of your children will die before their time. Before we fix this disgrace of private for profit health care in America. 1 of 2

Me, either. And I'll start unscrewing all those weird looking lightbulbs all over my house!!!!!

Al, Get off your ass and run or I will never recycle again.

Dear Al, I talked to quite a few people today. They're all very busy. They all have always voted for Democrats, but also all seem to agree that Hillary is intolerable and Barak a disappointment. (Glad to know it's not just me.) When I mentioned your name, people's eyes lit up for a moment. Then someone added, "But he's not in the race" and (I swear) audible sighs were expressed. One person added, "If he were in it, he'd win". I had to agree that you would win, but couldn't disagree that you're not running. The whole conversation did make me wonder, however. When you are old, on your death bed, (hopefully) many years from now....how will you look back upon this moment in history? Will it be OK with you to know that you could have done something more to make things turn out better, but wouldn't? If it's OK with you, then I suppose the rest of us will have to live and die with that knowledge too. It's why "we the people" keep losing, and losing hope. Instead of "the land of the free and the brave", we're fast becoming "the land of the slaves and the cowards". Shall we clink our glasses together and drink a toast to that, or clink our swords, voices and keyboards together instead and begin the real fight for what is right and true? Or not....(whatever).

Mr. Vice-President, I have to make a confession at the start. I'm still quite piss'd at you for not more forcefully challenging the election results ( especially when the repesentatives from the Black Caucus ask for anyone from the Senate to second their objects ) and leaving this nation at the hands of MADMEN. Buts that was then and this is Now. Will you kindly get off this internet soapbox and answer the call of this nation. Face it, American's on both sides of the fence don't trust Mrs. Clinton. If She won't speak out truthfully, forcefully, loudly, and correctly against the President, the Vice-President, the present Rape-publican leadership and the established, entrenched Corporate-tocrocy, she's lost my vote right from the start. And it will matter little what is said here, in the ether(on pun intended)-net without a Clear, Loud, and Extremely Visible Opposition to this administration. I know the media won't help, unless you create a big enough stink, but they can't ignore news, and mister You Make News. Please, Al, make me get off my ass and Run.

Well said Marilyn and thanks for the lift, Weeve.
Al, if you'll make our day, we'll help you make a real and lasting legacy for everything that is right and good in America and the world. We've been living in Simultaneous Parallel Backwards World long enough (too long).

Al, it's time to make your intentions known. The support for you is huge, don't leave us hanging. You can plainly see there are some really important matters, such as saving the Constitution that need the attention of someone with the ability to stop the erosion. We are in trouble and we are afraid for our country. The ball is in your court. Either kick it to the side or lob it back. You have the support to become President and stop the destruction or ignore it. Let us know what your plans are.

47 million Americans (one in six) are living in a very uncivil society deprived of the right to life and limb saving medical care (which means liberty and the pursuit of happiness are lost along with it). What we have is a great way of keeping the masses huddled, frightened, and yearning to be free. Societal sanctioning of discrimination against our sick is an even bigger national problem than earlier Civil Rights movements for people who aren't white men. Where is a Martin Luther King for the Medical Rights Movement when our nation needs one? We keep calling but his line is still busy. It's looking like no one who can will do anything about it. At least we have Oprah, but like Al, right now she can't seem to do much but talk. This country needs a hero like never before, and it's not going to be Hillary or Barak, even if one of them gets elected. They've both been ringing broad bland messages clear as bells (and their health care "solutions" are..."not" is the nicest word I can use). Most of the support they have would fall by the wayside if Al would enter the race, and he could teach them both (us all) some extremely valuable lessons about what it means to be a real leader, and what it takes to become a real hero. It's not just health care either, but the War on Terror, Invasion of Iraq, media conglomeration, internet freedom, our environment, global warming, honest elections, moral high ground on the home front and world stage, on and on. (Hope I'm not scaring you if you're listening.), Al...(being able to change these things could prove to be somewhat enlivening, rewarding and extremely satisfying(?)....ARE YOU THERE? WILL YOU ANSWER THE CALL? More importantly, will you be here for us when we need you? Are you putting your boots on?

weeve, Thank you. Encouragement is needed. We are getting a little depressed.

I'm keeping hope alive. These few early missed deadlines don't really amount to a hill of beans in the big picture. Keep on spreading the word, thinking good thoughts, and figure out ways to continue supporting the CAUSE. If it's meant to be, Al will step in at exactly the right moment, and all of our handwringing will have been for naught. In the meantime do your part, and when the moment comes it'll feel all the richer because we will have been participants ! The more you give, the harder you work ... the greater the feeling. Like animals before an earthquake, I'm beginning to sense a low rumble, and am getting mighty excited ...

Plusaf, the answer is "Improved Medicare For All". How many more times do we have to say it? I'll say it over and over and over again....because I've done my homework and am convinced it's the truth. The only question is, how many people will die and how many more health care dollars will be mis-spent before the truth becomes obvious to the "critical mass"? Al Gore could be the catalyst we need. That's why I'm here, trying my best, as if innocent lives depended upon it or something. ........................I just read the deadline for being on the primary ballot in two states was yesterday, and somewhere else I read Nov. 2 would be the deciding date for Al to announce for some reason. That's today. It's hard to keep up with everything, but I think Al's not running. I feel the same as when they reported Bush Jr. was appointed President....sick to my stomach and dead. It's just kind of, you know....tough... for those who are left without any hope and all. Is there a chance that Unity '08 will run AL?

If he doesn't I may have to go off in a dark corner somewhere and start chewing on my fist. We might have to give our lives up as just so much meaningless, worthless dead meat, collateral damage, whatever. It's very depressing not to have hope.

Not to worry, he is paying attention. I honestly believe he is giving our pleas serious consideration. I wouldn't blame him if he refuses us. I don't believe he will. He cares too much about the country and the world. He won't be able to allow the world to melt and run into a puddle. Integrity gets in the way of being able to ignore. He knows you and I are warming up in the wings to help him in any way we can. I'm just hoping he chooses John Edwards for his running mate. OBTW you aren't really "an irritating "know-it-all".

Bless you Marilyn Murray, for the job you are doing. I know I am an irritating "know-it-all". It's what I do for fun in my free time. My cousin is working for Hillary. After we talked she said she was going to have Hillary's "health care guy" call me, but he never did. I guess they're too busy listening to other points of views. I'm also trying to communicate with Al. It's like he's this big invisible head hovering over this blog, but we don't know if he's paying attention or not. AL, ARE YOU THERE?

Spoon you are full of all the facts and you are irritating Plusaf and me. Me because I can't remember things and Plusaf because he refuses to believe them. He isn't in that top 1% so like the rest of us doesn't pay enough taxes to pay for the infrastructure and services he uses. My guess is he votes against his best interests. I used to sell cars and my talent is I can tell the difference between a buyer and a tire kicker. He is a tire kicker. I wish he could take a drive through states that have privatized toll roads. It tells a story that in Dallas the LBJ is free, and the George Bush is a toll way that you have to stop every few miles and pay. Bless you and the great job you are doing.

We're spending $2000 per person on health insurance overhead when we could be spending $60 (Medicare's proven 40-year record). If we took $1000 of that and gave it to care providers to provide care, we would have more than enough to provide comprehensive care in a transparent system based on competition and freedom...and almost $1000 in savings left over for every man, woman and child in America. At first we would have to use our savings to buy out the health insurers (win, win, win). Why don't six nine-elevens' worth of dead Americans every year seem to bother people nearly as much one did? Where is the disconnect?

The Lewin Group used to be the best place for independent economic information about the impact of various health care proposals. Members of Congress and state governments used them to conduct studies. Many clients did not want Single Payer studied, but when some did, it always turned out to be the best, most cost-efficient by far (and the only option that would deliver more health care for less money than we're spending now). Then a subsidiary of United Health Group bought the Lewin Group. UHG is the largest profit-driven health insurer in the country (therefore the world). It is the one I mentioned whose stock was 800% above the Dow average for the last six years last time I checked. It is the same one whose CEO recently left with $1.6 Billion (with a "B") in stock options, not counting the hundreds of millions he's already cashed out or the hundreds of millions he's already taken home in salary, or his retirement package. Another very small group of CEO's split several hundreds of millions in bonuses the year two large HMO's (WellPointe and Anthem I believe, but could be misremembering) merged in California, costing health care consumers there an estimated extra $4 billion (thus the hundreds of millions in bonuses rewarded). If these guys were providing valuable services (or even just making movies that don't require human suffering when denied acccess) I would say "more power to them" but they're gouging healthy people and denying sick ones (thereby killing, disabling, bankrupting and terrorizing many), and keeping the rest of us from being able to know who is paying how much for what. That's how they're making their money, and I think that's just as wrong as walking into someone's home, terrorizing them and taking their money for having done nothing other than create harm. Just cause their Capitalists doesn't mean they can't be terrorists. (In my book they're an aberation of Capitalists called Fascists.) Most other American businesses don't work like this. The health insurance industry depends upon doing harm to our peope and our country in order to make a profit. To stop them from hurting us even more than they have already is simply good business sense for the country.

Check out the California Nurses Association (www.calnurse.org , largest organization of nurses in the country if not the world). Plusaf, what blog are you reading? The health insurers are the problem, not all "big business" and I haven't seen or said "tax the rich" except from you (over and over saying don't because the poor rich are doing ever so badly these days as we all know (not). I'm gathering from your statements that you're well enough off but not really fantastically wealthy, and you're angry about taxes. If the top 1% was shouldering its fair share of the burden, your taxes probably would be lowered dramatically too. You wouldn't believe what the charts look like for both wealth and income in this counrty. They are totally unbalanced and out-of-whack, and it's the top 1% where your anger (for your unreasonably high tax rates, which are second lowest in the developed world after Mexico's) should be directed, not at the bottom 90%. That's because the bottom 90% combined has less than the top 1% to give. Two people, Gates and Buffett, just gave away (was it $30 or $60?) billions without even being affected. Distribution of wealth is now moving up more rapidly than ever, not down or spread out evenly, and it's moving up because the Bush administration implemented the largest redistribution of our wealth since Reagan (which was considerable). The only thing is they designed it to be backwards from what would be best for the country, and that includes you if you're not in the top 1%. If you are in the top 1%, I hope you feel some obligation to give something back to a country that has given you so much. I wish Gates and Buffett were giving it all back to America, but they're spreading it around the world.

plusaf, Physicians for a National Health Program at www.pnhp.org/

Is anyone immune to cancer, or any of the myriads of other illlnesses that can overtake a person's body no matter how well they take care of themselves? Of course we should all take care of ourselves, but doing so is no guarantee that an illness or accident won't befall you or me (or someone we love dearly) anyway. For those who, for whatever reasons, don't take such good care of themselves, isn't the resulting illness punishment enough? Did you see the video by the lady who has gone without medical insurance therefore treatment for two years because she has MS? Do you know what happens to a person if they have MS and it goes untreated for two years? If diabetes goes undiagnosed and untreated? If asthma evolves into debilitating illness when it could have been stopped in its tracks? If minor benign tumors are untreated and allowed to turn cancerous? If people with chest pains can't see a doctor for fear of losing everything they own? What if your store clerk has that nasty viral pneumonia but hasn't been able to go to a doctor and so on top of spreading it everywhere, ends up taking up your spot in the ER just when you need it most? NO ONE (not even you) IS IMMUNE FROM ILLNESS. Even Superman (Christopher Reeves) was cut off by the insurance company his grandfather co-founded. That's worth repeating and remembering.

gailwinds, I wish it was as simple as eating right and exercising. It's not, I have environmental Illness. I have to breathe, it's not a choice. I we need Universal Health Care.

You realize if we eat healthy and exercise we won't need very much health care. But this statement is really very broad. Farmers need to grow crops organically, tobacco farmers need a new crop, Coca Cola needs to find a new drink, and Big Pharma well, I just don't know what they need to do. Cleaner energy is better for everyone and the planet. Why are we just so darned hooked on all this crap that makes us sick?

Amen to that, Mr. Gore. I'm still undecided as to whether you are more influential in public office or out, but when I hear you speak about issues like this - especially the issue of health care - the more I think you are the candidate (and president) this country needs. Contrary to what the media tells us, we Dems are not all satisfied with our candidates, and feel somewhat hopeless that Hillary is being handed the nomination without our representation. You have my support with whichever direction you choose.

But we're not saying those who provide valuable services to society should not be highly rewarded, because we believe they should be. Nurses, CNA's and many med techs should be earning MORE than they do now, for example. Doctors should remain on the very top tier of wage earners. We're saying there are people (in our current "UNiquely American" system) creaming billions off the top of our health care dollars for providing NO public services, and in fact creating harm by gouging prices, profits, increasing health care inflation, hiding costs, creating confusion and worthless tons of paperwork, profiteering an incredible amount (is 800% above the Dow average these last few years incredible?) by denying 47 million Americans desperately needed care, and costing every one else way too much for far too little in return. Those who do that for a living have no redeeming social value (one definition of "obscene"). A system that rewards them for doing what they are doing is broken. They create negative value, and are bad for our country. Those people we do not want to reward any longer, because to do so is just sick.

Basic problem is money. People think that money is the only means as a method of reward for what ever they do. It is already there and this is being fed to the mind when they are growing. Automatically every one will demand money and it becomes a culture..Are there any people who expect nothing for what they do. Start putting these to the young brain. in the future you will find dedicated group of people willing to serve humanity for no return.
Till then search for those kind of people and bring in to look after those who need free health care , Govt should pay for their basic living and expenses, These people do not demand too much you see!

Build some health centers ,give some good primary care for elderly and children, Maintain national registry for heath at this level. Not a complicated one like what you have. American health system is not the best. Travel and adopt something from other countries and make it the best.

Insurers make sure they reimburse providers slightly higher than Medicare to make sure the AMA and hospitals think they need insurers. Costs of claims denied don't seem to enter the equation, nor does the cost of having to sue people both with and without insurance in order to be paid at all. (Sueing members within the community you're supposed to be serving isn't the best PR for providers either.) What the AMA doesn't seem to understand is that Medicare payments could easily be adjusted to be more fair and equitable to providers without all of the hassles and hoops they have to jump through now, so that all patients and all providers would be better off while still saving our nation's economy hundreds of billions in wasted health care dollars simply by eliminating one obese, immoral, unnecessary (but smart) middleman. Go figure..........Al, if you would run for President you would win. Voters would know you were running even though you didn't really want to, at great personal sacrifice... winning strategy if ever there was one, based on the truth for a change. People's lives, the soul of your party and perhaps the future of our country are at stake. This is a historic turning point. Are you going to wave as it passes you by? You could go from a relatively small blip in human history to a major player, a true hero in the eyes of the people of the world. More than half of American voters think our country owes you a win. Do you have what it takes? An awful lot of people are hoping and praying that you do. I call Hillary: "Pseudo Hero Fools Many" ; Barak is: "Hopeful Hero Disappoints Payers of Attention"; and you are (hopefully) "Real but Reluctant Hero to the Rescue". Perhaps the most important question...will you be able to live happily ever after with yourself if you don't do the things that so desperately need to be done (but won't be if you won't do them)?

You are exactly right Spoon. Most doctors agree. They don't like not being able to treat people because needed treatment is denied by insurance, or because he already has more no charge patients than he can afford. They want their office to run smoothly and their patients to get needed treatment. They are like everyone else in that they like to do a good job. Their work is much harder because of the hoops insurance companies make them jump through. It is an insult when some goofball at the insurance company questions a doctors opinion.

Malpractice is 1%, health insurer overhead 31% (about $600 Biliion) of what we spend. But if the bills are paid there's nothing left to sue over except pain and suffering, which without the accompanying medical bills would be far less than what people sue over now. I'm not understanding Amieres's distinction (if there is one) between health insurance and health care. Health insurers serve no useful purpose (only hurtful ones) so should figure out other ways to make money (and they're well-positioned to do so). We won't pull the rug out from under them as they have done to so many other Americans and businesses. Health care providers should remain independent (unless or until they become a huge problem, which I don't think they will, especially with the new infusion of transparency and efficiency United Protection Single Payer would create). When or if doctors start diverting billions of dollars to kill, bankrupt, disable people and deny desperately-needed care, then I would work to stop that too (but doubt I'll have to). Do we agree with "eliminate profit-driven health insurers, keep care providers independent" in principle?

amieres, I didn't mention insurance companies either. They are the WHOLE problem. Don't blame law suits, they are a fraction of the costs. People should have the ability to sue for damages. I honestly believe it should be one provider. Trust me if everyone had the same it would be better service. I've never noticed doctors giving seniors less care than the general population. I'm in the same place as you are, No insurance, no Medicare. I got sick six years ago. My insurance company declined three times to fund a full body MRI. The doctors couldn't figure out what was/is wrong. I swelled up like a toad, had terrible pain and lost forty pounds. Finally after I no longer had insurance and five years of misery I was diagnosed with a hyperthyroid. The treatment costs six to eight thousand dollars. Left untreated you can die. Not a fun place to be. My insurance should have paid for the MRI, they should have paid for the treatment. I should be able to sue them for not fulfilling their obligation.

Marilynn, I did not mention insurance companies at all, to me they are the ones that drive the prices of healthcare so high together with lawyers. If you have a national healthcare system it's going to have a certain level of quality. If at the same time private for-profit healthcare is allowed to provide services, is naturally going to compete by offering better service or unique options not available in the other system. It would be your choice to use the private system or the public one or a combination of both. Why would that be desirable? Because public systems tend to be rigid and do not adapt easily to changes because of bureaucracy and budget limitations. Quality tends to be average to mediocre in the long run with cyclical ups and downs. On the other hand the existence of the public system would drive the prices of the private system down just because of the competition it brings, making it more accesible. Personally I do not have healthcare insurance and don't qualify for medicare so I would be a user of the public system, but I still believe that the private system should remain.

Plus the largest defrauder in the histroy of the Medicare program to date by far is HCA, Hospital Corporation of America, founded by former Senator Bill Frist's father and brother, and the largest profit-driven hospital chain in America (therefore the world). That's why we could use some transparency. The one way we have any chance of achieving that, is if everyone is playing by the same rules.

gailwinds, The stories about fraud are mostly propaganda. Someone might get an extra block of government cheese, but balance that out with kids getting fed or being able to go to the doctor. I'll take the whole package. Bush is the person responsible for the obscene profits the drug companies are raking in, he agreed to no bargaining with the drug companies for Medicare. They charge whatever they want. He loves no bid contracts. Those drugs in the volume that is on the street did not come through a doctors office. Some do, but the vast majority get there by other means. When Medicare first started I remember hearing about doctors that would treat the whole family and charge it to Medicare. It was an attempt to destroy the system. It not only survived but seemed to have thrived. Granted it needs improvement, but it is cost effective and still works well. If it included everyone including out representatives you can bet it would shine.

Gailwinds, I don't see how the problem you describe (not that it's not a problem) depends upon whether it's Medicare for All or privately insured Americans paying the price. I don't believe anything involving human behavior will ever be perfect (or it wouldn't be human), but that's besides the point we're discussing since it would be (and is) a problem either way. My guess is it costs private plans even more than public ones, but that's a guess, and it should be addressed (like I said, either way). Marilyn Murray....our personal children in particular are grown, and our grand babies are rich. Whatever must I be thinking, wanting to pay more out of MY pocket, just so other people's children can receive educations? That doesn't sound very neo-American Capitalist, does it? Does this mean I'm a society-loving, socialized Socialist and so must hate America? OMGosh, no!

I hear so much about welfare/Medicaid fraud it is no wonder an often negative attitude towards universal healthcare exists. If we are going to offer a universal plan that is financially feasible--all types of fraud must be addressed. When I hear the morning stock reports, the pharmaceutical companies are at the top. They are making a lot of money off the present healthcare system including Medicaid. Obviously the prescribing Dr.s are doing well also. I work in a drug rehab. Cocaine HAD been the mostly widely abused drug. Now, opiates (vicoden/oxycontin) and Xanax are the number one drugs of abuse among new admits. While these drugs are eventually obtained on the streets they were initially over prescribed by Dr.s to the point of addiction. The Dr.s are guaranteed return customers and the health insurance companies are picking up the tabs. It is a form of corporate welfare fraud and most likely costs more than any other form of Medicaid fraud. Besides the undue financial costs, the costs to human lives and their effected families, their communities and our economy are insurmountable. I am hoping that the middle class stops being the scapegoat for this corporate greed. Thank you for this forum.

Spoon, You just can't grasp the concept that some of us are better than others. College for everyone. Good grief, who will work at Wal-Mart? You are absolutely right. For the common good is the best idea yet. I love the way you think.

As a former teacher, I find the concept that some Americans should have "the best" while others, not so much, rather interesting as it applies to education and health care. I try to imagine explaining to some parents that we should not, and will not provide the same education to their children as we provide to others because they (unfortunately) do not earn enough money. Would the American public think such attitudes would be "OK" coming from their teachers? After all, it's not as if LIVES depend upon getting an education, right? As far as I'm concerned, after health care, we need to work to make sure that every American receives the same educational opportunities (through college as well)...because It's simply the best thing for our country as a whole, just like equal access to quality health care. Every American should have equal access to appropriate health care coverage and educational opportunities (and bridges that don't collapse)....because it all just makes good sense. It would still be OK if people wanted to get Botox injections and take ballet or karate classes on their own time and money.

amieres. Single payer universal health care means everyone, same coverage, paid by one payer. It should be top quality equally for everyone. Remove the for profit insurance companies and the health care provider should have no trouble being paid fairly. Why do you want to give 30% of your health care dollar to an insurance company instead of the doctor? They didn't spend years in medical school.

Actually I believe the best system is a mixed one that combines privately owned for-profit healthcare with public non-for-profit Healthcare.

Doctors could work in either or both systems at the same time, thus fulfilling the need of personal advancement and filanthropy that is commonplace among doctors.

That way you get the best of both worlds:
free public and universal healthcare and private top quality healthcare.

Everyone suffers without universal single-payer health care. People put off seeking help because they are afraid they can't pay the bills.

Thank you for advocating that health care is a right. Now please run for president and set the agenda with the climate crisis, health care and getting our troops home as soon as possible.

I voted for you in 1988, 1992, 1996 and 2000 and I will gladly cast my ballot for you in 2008.

Milton Friedman was laughed at and ridiculed for his economic theories when he first started out, when the American economy was doing great. It's only since the "powers that be" started giving his theories credibility that our whole economy has turned the wrong corner (towards the sh*t pile), so I wouldn't say the jury is out on Milton yet. My prediction is that he will be ridiculed again some day for being so wrong. Economists can and do disagree. Try some Kevin Philips or Robert Kuttner and see what you think. The fact that all of our wealth is accumulating so rapidly within the top 1% is not a good sign for 99% of us. (Did you catch Warren Buffett on MSNBC this morning?) I'm a true believer in the Free Market and its principles when they apply (as they do in our business); it's just that I don't think all markets are Free, or that there are only one (or two) kinds of markets. When markets aren't working, are as broken (and big) as our health insurance one is, to ignore that fact and refuse to fix it can create (some would argue already has created) a national economic disaster.

I didn't have any problems with Plusaf's semantic suggestions (understand use of governemt rather than tax funded). My pet peeve is calling what we need "free" health care (as Michael Moore did over and over, bless his heart anyway). It makes us sound so wrong and misleading right off the bat.

I don't see how any health coverage system could possibly be worse, more expensive or more amoral than the one killing our people and economy now. When corporations take over government and start running it for their welfare at the expense of the people, I call that "Fascism" not "Capitalism". "Free" markets can become horribly unbalanced and get completely out-of-whack if left to run amok without competent leadership and guidance, but I maintain health coverage is not even a free market commodity to begin with (because the choice of whether or not to purchase the product is not a free choice, but a "have to or die" one). That's why Free Market theories have failed so miserably, because we're talking about a Captive Market where greed has been allowed to run rampant, and no one is protecting those who are captive. I also think government should stay out of it unless peoples' lives need protection, which in this case they do. I'm more than willing to let care providers stay independent because as far as I can see they are not the problem, but rather victims of insurer greed too. If competition was opened up among providers and health care pricing allowed to see the light of day, theoretically they shouldn't become a problem inthe future either. If doctors start skimming off billions (with a 'B") for killing people, then I'll fight against that. So far, even a million dollar doctor (of which there are not that many) works his butt off, shoulders tremendous responsibility and knowledge in order to provide a very valuable service (saving people's lives). I will be first in line fighting for generous and timely compensation for care providers, many of whom deserve to earn more than they do now. If we cut out the yearly $600 billion and growing that we're handing over to these nutsy health insurer middlemen for creating nothing but paperwork and confusion, we can afford to pay providers very well and have hundredsof billions in collective savings with which to build far more productive sectors within our economy. Plusaf, are we in agreement here?

Al Gore,
First let me congratulate you on receiving the Noble Prize, well deserved. I agree with your position on health care. Each person should have the right to receive health care no matter what the income is. Additionally, I also agree with you that our government shouldn’t be involved in the delivery of heath care services. The government’s role should be to act as an enabler to the private sector to provide health care services for all citizens. However, to make health care affordable for everyone the entire pricing system for medical services needs to overhauled top to bottom by a panel of honest government officials. I know it seems impossible, but its not and if we’re to have a health care system for everyone it has to be done. If we are looking for talented honest hardworking government officials why not start at the top. Lastly, I am deeply saddened that someone with your extraordinary vision and ability to lead the country in a direction that could have a dramatic effect on improving the lives of millions of Americans is reluctant to seek a political leadership role that would allow him to effect that change.

…If nothing, our health care should take precedent in private and governmental polices.
This appears apparent, but then this National Health Care issue is still being debated.
The existing HMO systems are often detrimental in lack of concern and oversight.
These are not National Health care plans.
How we think and what we do is affected in judgment by our existing health.
Without our physical and mental health, these chose’s and abilities become questionable.
A National Health Care plan, funded by the Government, would offer society better chooses in its needs and purpose. Cognition and recognition of issues and truths might improve.
Could one correlate the existing health care plans and the political policies reflective of this?
There are and will be problems. But Please, national care systems do work for the good of all. It proves its worth, from Europe to Asia. It does work in most countries that have it.
The care is there. Yes it can and is often misused. But considering the functional and financial costs now in administrating the existing systems and the need to regulate the pharmaceutical companies, can we as a rich or poor nation afford not too. Then of course the costs to lives due to the lack of basic care available, what alternative is there?
A National Health Care should take precedent in private and governmental polices.
This is Monies well considered.

If health coverage were truly a free market, consumers would be banding together into larger and larger groups for better and better protection until the inevitable end: the largest group for the best protection, best prices, best care and the most transparency possible. Retain competition among providers, give everyone free choice among them and the only choice anyone needs as far as coverage is concerned: to be covered if they need it. I think very few people will want medical procedures if they're not needed. That's like wanting to go to the dentist (only worse) just for fun. Decisions would go back to being between doctors and patients. Plusaf will be glad to know I will campaign against Hillary and Obama with all of my heart. Both of them and every Republican that offers any "solution" (not) at all only wants to legislate Corporate Welfare for the Insurance Industry, not Health Care for Americans. That's "Universal Care Done Wrong" and we should be just as afraid of that as we should be of what we have now.

There are thousands of stories exactly like that. We ignore them because they are ugly. We have to do something about this and I don't care how you look at it Medicare WORKS for the most expensive segment of the population. It seems a no brainer to improve and expand it to include everyone. Trust me if our legislators were on included it would work just fine. Last year I read about a little boy that died from an abscessed tooth. Are we so selfish and greedy that this is okay? Granted it is the parents responsibility. My guess is they had no money, not a dime. It happens. Go have a look at what doctors are thinking about health care. Physicians for a National Health Program at www.pnhp.org/. I think they have a better understanding about what is workable than we do.

I'm a small business owner and employer. We've paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to health insurers for our employees and ourselves for 30 years while we were all young, healthy and didn't need it. We paid "through the nose" for coverage we didn't use (because you "have to" have it, or maybe DIE) with the explanation that it was costing us so much while we were young and healthy so that when we got old or sick, other people would pay for us (they called it "risk sharing"). That was a lie, a damn lie. It doesn't work that way AT ALL. "Risk sharing" under their rules is a one-way street. Only cherries get to be picked for health coverage, and if cherries become lemons they are dropped faster than hot potatoes. Our friends own a small business and pay for health coverage for their employees and themselves. When their young daughter was diagnosed with leukemia, they were singled out of their own "risk group" and rated up to $46,000/year in premiums alone, not counting co-pays, deductibles and things that just aren't covered because they're not (or their daughter dies; they lose their business; everyone else loses their jobs; they go bankrupt, or all of the above). They are some of the few Americans who can afford to cover the cost (increasing about 10% per year), but it's killing their business. What happens if one more in their group falls ill? What happens when their daughter becomes an adult and has to "own her own" coverage, what with her being an actuarial "loser" and all? My friends brother Richard died recently because he didn't have enough money working full-time at low wages for a small company as a bus driver to be able to afford to have a small benign lump removed from his cheek. When I first met him half of the bottom of his face was consumed with a massive, benign-turned-cancerous mass that was ever-so-slowly interferring with his ability to eat. With a lot of work we finally found a surgeon who would treat him. After a nine-hour operation, having to have all of his teeth removed to prepare for radiation, then hundreds of thousands of dollars of too-late-treatment, finally he qualified for disability and died an easily preventable death in a nursing home a couple of miserable years later at the age of 56....all for the lack of $2000. Richard paid with his life, guess who paid for the rest? After we became older and wiser, after I did much research and reading of laws seemingly written by the insurance industry, and came to the realization what a (legal) scam health insurance is for small groups, we decided to stop paying for something that isn't worth the paper on which it is written. All insurers offer small businesses is a one-way street into their pockets and out of ours. I'm fighting for the right to be able to pay into a health coverage system that actually does what it says it will do, for a big change. I'm fighting for our lives. I'm fighting for a level playing field, and to be able to conduct business in an atmosphere of physical security for our workers and ourselves (and having to do so is extremely distracting). An affordable, sustainable, moral health coverage system does not exist for us in this country. We would protect ourselves against this industry that is terrorizing and killing us and millions others like us if we could, but we can't do it alone. We could use some help. We would strengthen Medicare rather than dismantle it.

plusaf, You can't possibly think Al Gore is reading and deleting your stuff do you?Get real.

Heeee's Baccccccck! And still full of macaroni.

Plusaf...It doesn't matter whether access to health care is an individual's "right" or not. It would simply be better for our country. We don't have a "right" to an education, roads on which to drive, parks, fire protection, libraries, etc., either, but they sure are nice things to have, and the country as a whole is far better off because we have them. Medicare for All would be just plain better (by FAR) than what we have now. I have a hard time understanding why this isn't obvious to everyone (except the very few who are skimming off humongous wealth for their personal accounts that we are pouring into the health insurance industry). That's OUR wealth, our country's wealth. They're taking it and giving us very little, FAR too little, in return. Anti-social Fascism is what we have running our health insurance coverage now, and "it don't work" because it is broken. Refusing to fix what is broken does not seem like the best option for us to me. Decrying the use of "isms" after having repeated the "Socialism As Boogie Man" argument ad naseum is too ironinc for words.

It is I who should thank you, Marilynn! You said it best in far fewer words to someone who probably does not know many non-standard urban English dialect words. Your brevity was much superior to my trying to rattle his self-contained little world of a cage, but if he's hot about it (not about Mr. Gore--again!), I'm still amused.

Cheers,
mike

lapinex , Well done. Thank you.

dont_taze_me_bro, Our country was founded on the common good principal. That still works stupid. It doesn't bother me if you don't want to sign up for Social Security when you get too old to work. I don't care if you don't want to use Medicare. Please when we expand Medicare to include everyone, reject it on principal. Go live under a bridge somewhere (oops sorry roads are a socialist concept too) and go without medical care.

plusaf "and not all organizations of the US Federal Government are wasteful..... many ARE very efficient..... i just signed up for Social Security"............Whatever you do when you crawl up off the floor from rolling around laughing don't sign up for Medicare. You can bet that it is subsidized by someone else. I'd hate for you to get anything you don't pay for. Along those same lines don't bother collecting Social Security after a short while the money you paid in will have run out. I'm sure you don't want to partake in anything FDR set up to save people from poverty. Go ahead get back on the floor and start rolling around laughing again. Then get your retired old self out find a job and buy insurance.

To the person who said that Canada is socialist:

We currently have a Tory gov. in Ottawa.

To the person who said that socialism if ruining Canada:

The Cdn. dollar is worth more than the American one, currently.

We are the third largest among oil producing nations in the world.

Admit it: Something is working. And at the same time, we
look after our people.

I really love my second home, the U.S. I always say,
If you want power, energy and opportunity
go to the U.S.
If you want peace and quiet, go to Canada.

But I really wish you could find some way in which
to agree to look after the weakest of you.

As I said, that makes for a strong society. Without
that principle, you are in danger of falling behind
#1 world power.

I think our country is at the mercy of the health insurance industry, and it has none. It keeps individuals chained to their jobs, small businesses unable to compete and thrive, and large businesses begging for mercy....but (again) there is no mercy. It is bankrupting and killing our people, our employers, our governments, our economy, shredding our social safety nets of Medicare and Social Security, and nothing is stopping its path of destruction. Only in America. If the fellow who is handicapped doesn't mind me asking: are you on any kind of disablity? What happens if you get sick?

Mr. Gore, how do we get our healthcare system out of the hands of corporations and back into the hands of doctors? I don't know if you are even attempting to read this as it would be hard to decipher the on topic responses from the usual noise, but I work for a doctor and see everyday those who even have coverage and still cannot be covered or cannot afford certain services provided. Heathcare is now just one arm of big business, and that dooms it to failure. And they have such a stronghold on beltway politics with campaign contributions riding on votes made that I don't see how that will be broken anytime soon. Should it just be left to states? I really hope to read more from you here on issues because there is much I have always wanted to talk to you about, especially regarding the environment.

Thank you.

spoon said, "No confidence" vote for MBlake. Whose side are you on?" Um...to which comment of mine does that refer?

(FWIW, the "side" I'm on is, first, the planet's; secondarily, humankind's.)

Mr/Ms/Mrs Driscoll,

Sorry, friend.

I meant to say that I didn't mean to mean to imply anything about you. Just me.

Cheers!
mike

Mr/Ms/Mrs DRISCOLL,

I don't know you and I have only read your last post. You and I might have been good friends, drink beer/wine/shooters--your preference or milk--in another lifeline.

But I do want to try this out on you, civilly and respectfully, as I know people with different beliefs and opinions can do when they want to (I am not implying anything about me; just about me and my anger trigger):

When those of us who are affluent and Republican with so-so health insurance coverages say we want SUPERB health care (single-payer, single-riskpool) directed by the Federal Government in the form of Universal Health Coverage:

please don't assume we are necessarily for non-private health care providers (hospitals, doctors, pharmaceuticals), but that the Feds (if supported by EVERYONE) can best negotiate for absolutely HUGE blocks of people BEST, rather than you and I as individuals trying to fight PPO's who more and more resemble HMOs.

However, I would also put on the table the prospect of having all doctors and hospitals (and maybe pharmaceuticals as well--or at least strong-armed negotiated by the Feds) paid by the government for ALL of the American people as well. Open minds want to explore all avenues, including keeping the very profit-laden health care industry we have now. (Even if you hate Michael Moore personally, rent the Sicko DVD anyway to see his (and many others' points of view).

As for freedom, my friend, I am an ultra-liberal who wants nothing more than near absolute freedom of speech, etc. etc., etc. (read my post under Why Do People Hate America if you like).

But this healthcare quagmire pitting individuals against individuals (while the corporations enjoy obsene oligoplistic profits as in Medicare not being allowed to negotiate drugs) is just becoming unacceptable to even us freedom lovers. I don't consider myself a socialist when I use the police, fire department, govt planning dept, etc. WHY SHOULD GREAT HEALTH CARE BE ANY DIFFERENT? Remember, we definitely do NOT have a purely capitalisitic (or socialistic) economic system, and we probably never will. But both Republicans and Democrats have for the last 20 years thought that socialistic pork projects and subsidized sports stadiums have been great ideas! And if we can have those, we certainly need universal health care MUCH, MUCH, MORE!

Recommend the DVD: Corporation
with Milton Friedman, conservatives, liberals,et al.

So Mr/Ms/Mrs. Driscoll,
If you wish to converse offline (it's faster),
you may write me at Lapinex@comcast.net .
If not, best of luck to you.

mike

Those in congress who would deny us our "socialised medicine", should just give up their own socialised medicine:

Yes, Virginia: congress gets medicare.

in response to dont_taze_me_bro, who wrote:
And its apparent, mdriscoll, that you didn't read what I wrote.

I responded to your message that ended "We prefer Liberty!" The message you posted after that was not up when I wrote my note, even though it now appears before my response, so please recognize that I did not have the opportunity to read it. If I had had that opportunity, I would have known that you are disabled, living on less than minimum wage, and an artist who is definitely anti-'isms'.

Your assumptions that I'm a socialist, stupid, a whiner, and unable to support myself are all totally wrong and offensive.

In addition, non-profit and non-corporate does not mean working for nothing.

And its apparent, mdriscoll, that you didn't read what I wrote.

But no matter, you want the health industry to no longer make a profit. You think, since healthcare is a right (as algore would have you believe) that doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug companies, and all those millions of people who are now gainfully employed because the aforementioned are too, should all work for nothing.

Do you honestly think a person would spend 8 to 16 years of his life learning a skill such as heart surgery if he couldn't earn a profit from it? How will he pay the student loans off? And who will I sell my art to if you people eliminate the rich? You socialists don't buy art!

I'm sorry that you are unable to support yourself because you are unwilling to take the risks needed to attempt to do so, but for every socialist whiner like yourself there are hundreds of us who are willing to try, and who don't want algore to be our sugar daddy. Maybe it's because we know that all sugar-daddies want something afterwards, that none give up their money for free.

I can't speak for you (although the answer is pretty clear...) but I don't want to be algore's bitch!

I completely agree with Al Gore and Dennis Kucinich on how this country MUST eliminate the expensive for-profit health care system and create a Universal, one-payer health care system for everyone.

I do, however, believe that such a system much also be a single-risk pool system so that the powers that be cannot abridge some folks benefits while keeping others' par or above par.

Doing this will mean electing a Congress and President with spines and complete resistance to the non-health-care, for maximum profit, minimum benefit, HMO-style lobbyists.

That will mean electing NO Republicans (pro-corporations at the expense of individuals' needs) whatsoever and not electing some Democrats who are bought and paid for by non-health industry lobbyists!

Can we do it? I'm not sure to be honest. It does not seem Americans have a record of electing "representatives" that look after their interests FIRST. A shame. Don't bitch if Medicare or Universal Health Care is not there for you if you ever need it. The targeted insurance corporations won't help you then!

Sugget you rent the DVD: Corporation.
It will open your eyes wide. If you shut them, that's your problem.

HELP US AL GORE!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Nnph3zkHNw

Liberty is generally considered a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the ability to act according to his or her own will.

I'm all for liberty, but what about the millions of Americans who do not have the ability to act according to their own will? It's apparent that you are not poverty-stricken, disabled physically or mentally, abused into submission, or any of the multiple 'accidents of birth' that bring people wishing to be hard working and productive to their knees. If we as a nation cannot take care of our own citizens, liberty becomes unattainable.

I'd like to see the verbiage of 'government run health insurance policy' give way to what we really need: universal health care. We don't need insurance -- we need care. And we need the health industry to be non-profit and non-corporate oriented but rather human health oriented.

Spoon sed:
"Anti-socialist Fascism is what we have running our health insurance coverage now, and "it don't work" (because it is broken). Keeping what is broken and refusing to fix it does not seem like the best option for us."

Our healthcare system is heavily damaged by the idea that someone other than ourselves are responsible for our health(care). We have been slowly conditioned by the insurance companies and the government to believe that we have some right to the same goodies as the rich. I am not rich. I am self-employed, with no employees. I am an artist.

I make LESS THAN the minimum wage and have no health insurance. I don't want your "free" healthcare!

I don't want to pay for it. I want to continue creating my art and living day-to-day on the meager sustenance I can gather from the art-loving public.

If you socialists succeed in foisting yet another boondoggle on America, I'll have to stop creating my art and will be forced to get a "real job." Of course, since I'm handicapped I won't be able to get anything that pays well enough to even exist as well as I do now, for I set my own hours and work from my home, and need not worry about transportation farther than the local grocery store.

To say that the present system is 'Anti-socialist Fascism' proves my point that this healthcare system you progressives want to foist upon America is indeed socialist. Why do you think socialism is a good system? It didn't work in the Soviet Union; it didn't work for Germany under Hitler. It's a dismal failure in Cuba, and no offense to Zimra, but it's killing Canada too. Heck, even China is turning away from it because [drumroll please] Socialism doesn't work, Stupid!

'Socialism doesn't work, stupid!'............ Neither does Corporate/State fascism.

No, it doesn't. But why do you think trading one 'ism' for another will work either? You call yourselves 'liberals' but the whole concept of liberty is lost on you. I understand that you feel you need a strong leader to force you to save for retirement, to fund a government run health insurance policy, etc. but I and millions of other American's prefer to handle our affairs on our own. We prefer Liberty!

I am a Canadian citizen, permanent resident in the U.S.
I know the pitfalls of a government-sponsored health care system. First of all, let me point out that the government gets its money from the people through taxes, so it is not actually gov. sponsored: it is people sponsored through taxation.
The good side of such a system is that the poor and the old who only have social security on which to live, are covered. The bad side is that with cutbacks, everyone, regardless of social status, has unbelievably long wait
times to see a specialist, to get an operation, a bed, etc.
In Canada, people with severe heart problems have died while waiting for an operation.
On the other hand, it is good news that absolutely everyone has access to health care, regardless of
income. For seniors and the disabled, drugs are
also free.
Another weakness in the system is that the federal
government gives each province a block of money,
but does not allocate how it is to be spent (on
health care). That is left up to the provinces.
Therefore if a person moves from province to
province, there is a difference in health care, even
for the elderly and the disabled.
The U.S. wants something better thought-out than
the above, but it does need something. Let the
government and the states look critically at the
systems in Canada and Great Britain (which are
separate, autonomous systems) and then decide
what would be best for U.S. citizens.
While doing this, don't argue too much on 'govern-ment involvement.' Since taxes are gleaned from each
citizen, it is you who are paying and not the gov.
The gov. is just aministering it. Let there be a system
where the people look after each other. That makes
for a strong society. Don't let the poor die of
neglect. Make sure there is a support net there for them.
And remember, you are actually paying, not the
government.

It doesn't matter whether health care should be an individual's right or not. We don't necessarily have a personal "right" to an education, roads on which to drive, parks, fire protection, libraries, etc., either, but they sure are nice things to have, and the country as a whole is far better off because we have them. Medicare for All would be just plain better (by FAR) for our country as a whole. I have a hard time understanding why this isn't obvious to everyone (except the very few who are skimming off humongous wealth for their personal accounts that we are pouring into the health insurance industry). That's OUR wealth, our country's wealth....and they're taking it and giving us very little, FAR too little, in return. Anti-social Fascism is what we have running our health insurance coverage now, and "it don't work" (because it is broken). Keeping what is broken and refusing to fix it does not seem like the best option for us.

dont_taze_me_bro 'Socialism doesn't work, stupid!'............ Neither does Corporate/State fascism. "Every man for himself." Our police, fire departments, libraries, Our Roads, parks, etc., are socialist. Adjust or don't use them.

I strongly support the idea that the delivery of universal healthcare is the responsibility of our government and should be an entitlement all people living in this country have the right to expect.

Currently, I work for a mid-size retailer with a position in Human Resources and specifically, benefits. I have been involved in this area of HR for about 18 years (in more than one organization). During that time I have seen various interations of managed care, HMOs, PPOs, POSs (all HMOs with some choice). And now "consumer driven healthcare". This appears to be a very attractive proposition -- low weekly deductions from a person's paycheck -- high deductible plan ($1,000+) -- oh and by the way you are responsible to pay your providers from dollar one until you have satified the deductible -- at which point the plan will begin to pay benefits. To help you to cover the cost of your deductible, you may open a HealthSavings Account - which you must fund from payroll deductions. The account is yours, you receive a tax deduction and it goes with you where you go. Does this really make sense for people who are making marginally more than minimum wage, and who avoid making 401(k) contributions (also tax deferred) because they can't afford to save?

I fully agree with one of the postings that healthcare in this country is profit driven. This must be changed.

One of the few things that makes me feel good about my job is the fact that I often have the opportunity to serve the people who are covered by the plan.

One of the things that makes me very, very sad are some of the reasons why I've had to help them. Specifically because their claims were incorrectly adjudicated, or services had been disallowed, or the "customer service representative" at the insurance company mis-quoted the benefit. One of the saddest was the woman who called me to drop her insurance, because she needed to go into a state run nursing home to die.

Many of the people who are covered by business sponsored plans are working only for the insurance and live in fear of losing their job because they won't have insurance. This is obscene!

On the other side of the coin is the fact that a business is a business. A business is operated for profit, and has stock holders to answer to. Most business struggle hard to design plans that will benefit the majority of the covered individuals and keep the costs reasonable for the insureds as well as for the business. For obvious reasons businesses should not be responsible for providing most of the healthcare in this country.

And for even more obvious reasons, providers of health insurance should not be for profit corporations.

Thanks for the opportunity to sound off. I hope it makes a difference

We need universal, single-payer, government run health care. Health care that covers everyone. Like an extension of Medicare, which is now only for everyone over 65. Our current system is outdated, outmoded, far too complex to maintain. The paperwork alone will eventually kill it. If everyone who is working at a living-wage job pays into the single-payer system rather than paying to make insurance companies richer, we would have plenty of money to maintain the single-payer system. This includes employer payments. The government bureaucrats have shown themselves capable of running a good system. Let’s extend the system to every citizen of the US. The private companies have shown that they are just as capable of boondoggles as the government. At least with government-run health care, we will have oversight. It is time for the richest country in the world to step up to the plate and measure up to the lesser countries in terms of the quality of helath care afforded to its poorest, as well as those who can pay.

Working hard, living frugally and within ones means, carries with it rewards; a bigger house in a nicer neighborhood, a nice car, all the accouterments of a modern lifestyle, better and more nutritious food, and better healthcare.
If top-of-the-line healthcare is a right (although, please note that algore didn't say anything about the quality of the healthcare he thinks you have a right to!) then why isn't "more nutritious" food a right? Why is it not my right to live in algore's neighborhood? Why isn't it my right to own a nice car like algore drives?
The answer to all those questions is simple: None are rights. We have a right to pursue happiness; we don't have a right to be happy. And we have a right to life, but once we are born we have no right to force anyone to keep us alive if we have a terminal illness.
'Socialism doesn't work, stupid!'

The statesman Al Gore is valuable "You both agree"

Health Care, HIPPA, Insurance Company Greed, Lack of or limiting Treatments and Procedures and differences in how common Americans are treated medically from US State to State. Let us not even get started on how pitifully we treat Mental patients. Bridges are great shelter for them.

Al will do as Al will do. The issue remains:

The Shame of our current system is apparant.

Equal Rights For All
The pursuit of happiness
and other inalaible rights are being denied to many, Limited to Most and bought by the Top few Americans.

We must persuade a power structure that Health Care
can be handled with compassion and dignity.

It is a RIGHT, RIGHT?

The America I know will roll up it's sleeves and search out solutions.

Demand your rights, Be heard and VOTE!

We accept that a 'free appropriate public education" is a right - we take care of the mind...but not the body? Does not make sense.
Free appropriate public health should be the next american task. Get it Done!

"No confidence" vote for MBlake. Whose side are you on?

I do have health insurance provided by my employer. It used to be very good insurance. Not so good anymore. I now delay seeing a doctor because of what it will cost me. And - I pay most of the premium.
Please, Mr. Gore, you have the answers. Can you not hear the the hundreds of thousands voices calling out to you? We know you don't want to run for President, but your country and it's citizens are calling for you. Please answer their call.

Much as I wish Al Gore had been our president during the last seven years, I don't want him to run again: I honestly feel that he has gone on to become much too valuable to the planet to take on a mere presidency. He is a world statesman with a powerful voice who is creating change; I fear that the respect and admiration people around the globe feel for him, and a good part of his effectiveness, would be lost if he became just another former U.S. president.

HOWEVER, since nobody of his caliber is in the race yet, a clone would be nice...

I'm thrilled to see that Vice President Gore is speaking out on the current issues! I think this is very good news, for ALL of us who want to see a President Gore in '08!

Because there is no one else in the race who has the unique ability, experience, knowledge, grace and passion, to take over the terrible disaster that Bush/Cheney has created; right the wrongs and make this a better country again and a better world for everyone.

I'm banking on Vice President Gore to run in '08. Maybe as an Independant for the Unity '08 party!!! He doesn't need to get involved in the primary battles. He can step out next year and beat them all in the general election!!! RUN AL RUN!!!

I had a major operation earlier this year. As an artist, I live on what is considered way below poverty level. I do not have health insurance. Our local hospital has a program to provide health care to people in my situation, and as a result, my bill was much reduced. The hospital and several doctors outright waived their fees. I greatly appreciate what they've done, but feel that They should not have to. Universal health care, like that of the U.K., may not work as smoothly as it could, but it does work. We should have it here.

Watch the link above from MBlake!

She is right! Listen

The health care safety net in the US is like falling 53,000 feet into an empty swimming pool.

In Texas where I live; I have had to spend over $24,000 this year alone. With Insurance from the "Texas Risk Pool" as no private insurer will touch anyone that is not 100% low risk.

2 Boys in College a disabled wife and a contract labor job. Thanks for the Help King George II.

If you or one you love gets sick.....Life as you knew it is over.

Oh well what should I have expected from a Court appointed President and his 6 years of a puppet Congress.

Dear Mr. Gore - As you are well aware, our inability to provide health care for everyone in this country is just one of many missed priorities within this great country. I haven't been been so proud of any one American as I am of you in a great many years. Congratulations on all of your accomplishments and awards and thank you for hard work in bringing intelligence, common sense, and as I've recently discovered, a wonderful sense of humor to those of us who'd almost given up hope! You should have been our President all along, and I'm praying for the morning the news announces you're running! No one has been as right about the issues as you, nor do they possess the integrity, the honesty or the trust you've so rightly earned. No one will restore our trust in this corrupt government and set things on the right path - no one but you. Just be yourself and you can't lose!

I couldn't agree with you more -- as witness http://current.com/items/85966011_hobson_s_choice_health_or_family .

America Calling........Hello Hello.......Hello

Who should have thought in Y2k that now in 2007 Health Insurance would cost twice my house payment?
With treatment co pays and maximums over $24K this year alone. Stay Healthy if you can.

Post Middle Class Amigo's ......WHY?

RUN Al RUN
Let us elect you Twice!

Al Gore... PLEASE run. You have THE best views out of anyone in the political spectrum. It's the biggest shame of America that you were not elected in office.

Another documentary to follow "An Inconvenient Truth" but about the subject of health care would be a great idea too, (but running for President would be far better). Let the right wing flail away in their smoke and mirrors. The rest of the world knows better. The bigger the picture we look at, the more obvious it becomes.

The corporate right-wing media is a problem, but still not one big enough to defeat the truth. No one with the people's ear is explaining the truth to the people. Al on Oprah could do a lot to change that, and I don't think the people would turn them off. I think the people's light bulbs would turn on.

100% right on! how many people die because of lack of health care every year in this, the wealthiest country in the world? single payer healthcare would radically decrease the cost of funding health care (which now is among the most expensive in the world) and save countless lives.....this is a no brainer!

Ok and what do you want to achieve with this?

Most Americans do not support government funded health care and you know that!

You didn't support it in 2000, either. Not because back then there were no sick people without coverage but because you knew it was a political dead end.

That part of the story has not changed. It's still a political dead end and not because of those evil HMOs but because most average Americans still oppose it.

Besides you are only hurting your own cause
if you sound like a big spender liberal.
You should understand the link between how Americans view the issue of climate change and what they think about you. It's stupid but it's so. They just can't separate the message from how they feel about the messenger.
If they think you are a left wing pussy they will not listen to you. No matter what you have to say.
Left wingers have no credibility in mainstream America. On any issue.

If you ignore that you will fail. Again.

To the French person: the last time I checked, health care in France was 9% of GDP, the next most expensive compared to ours (the highest) which was running over 15%. In France if costs go up everyone knows and feels it (so can react). Here most people have no idea who is paying how much for what, and our costs are rising at far faster rates than yours. Here we're all paying vastly different amounts for the exact same things. In most cases, here the poorest pay the most (both in percentages of income and particularly for the uninsured who are charged as much as 10-20 times more for the same procedures than insurance corporations pay). Here, the richest and insurance corporations pay less than anyone but usually slightly more than the government (which keeps too many care providers thinking they're better off with the insurers when the opposite would be true).

amen. the republicans call themselves the party of god or religion. I am religious and can't understand why we can't provide health care to everyone. it is a god given right. not a right only to those that can afford it or have an education and get it through their employer. and with the cost of health care rising every year, less and less people will be covered by their employer. every life is precious no matter their social status.

Dear EM/Senator/Vice Presiden/Citizen Gore:
I do comprehend (not understand, since I've never been there) your reluctance to go once more into the battle your Daddy et al prepared you to engage.
That said, I do hope you will come from the comforts of an adviser (like Adalai Stevenson) and enter the bloody fields of accomplished patriotic leadership.
There are those who have the same "burning gut" but they have not had the privilege of family prestige. Add your prestige to their patriotism -- then, we may still be able to overcome.
Sincerely,
Snar (aka Arlen)

First Mr. Gore I am still hoping and praying that you will run for President in the next election. Our country really needs you. I would support any ticket with your name on it.

Next, I 100% support a national health care system. Even though I work for a large corporation that provides its employees with good health coverage I still pay close to $1200 a year for the coverage.
I have also been fortunate enough to experience Englands social health care system first hand. While living in England I compound fractured my arm. The hospital in Oxford took me in (even though I am not a British citizen) and performed surgery, physical therapy and all the treatment needed to make me good as new. I was a minor then and they did it all without cost to my parents.
Now here in The United States I have been witness to many of my friends or family members who could not afford insurance become victims of the health care system. One lady I know had a lean put on her home because her son broke his leg and she could not keep up with the costs of the surgery and treatments that he needed. It saddens me that in The United States of America that we would force a mother or anyone to choose between bankruptcy or getting the medical treatment they need for themselves or their family. It is an outrage that we have let this system of only the rich can afford adequate care, go on for as long as it has. American's need to unite and stand up for what is right! HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!!!!!!!

Of course there should be health care for those who cannot afford it. But why is the issue of prevention in the first place so seldom addressed? Why are we allowing so many people to get preventable "diseases" like type II diabetes, high blood pressure, acid reflux, heartburn, colds, flu, etc? If our immune systems were all working at optimal levels they would fight off these symptoms. This is NOT a simplistic argument. Education about what kinds of food to eat to keep healthy should be a basic starting point. We should start with educating the doctors! In seven years of medical school they spend one year learning about pharmaceuticals and two days learning about nutrition. We now have a "sickness" industry where it pays everyone involved (except the patient) to keep people sick. I am dealing with hundreds of people each month who are getting well simply by eating well. Don't give me the argument about poor people only being able to afford fast food. If we all spent more on quality and actually ate three quarters less than we do we would all be very healthy. This would allow the medical community to actually concentrate on helping people who really have diseases that need treatment.

Since a single payer plan system already exists under Medicare as well as under Verterans Administration, it should be feasible to design a simple and low-cost universal health care system utilizing the already existing VA hospitals and clinics and including those private physicians who are participating as Medicare providers. Afterwards, incrementally expand the care system so as to include everyone. The real problem is how to pay for it all as it still would be expensive. A carbon fuels tax should be levied and all the receipts and revenues derived from such a tax might then be designated to help pay for the universal health care; that should do it were the rate of carbon tax sufficient.

Let me just make a pont right here : I DO agree with universal health care systems. As a french citizen, i DO have a state-provided health care, but let's not forget the other side of the medal : Health care is costing an incredibly big hole in the french budget.

This year i think the figures are about 11 billion euros (so about $14 billion). It's a problem for the state but french people obviously want to keep it.

So this piece of advice goes to everybody who supports Universam Health care : take a look around to make your own idea (UK, France etc...), don't belive too much in what Micheal Moore says, and think well on HOW TO PAY FOR IT, because it costs a lot to my country and that we're trying to cope with this all the time ...

Here's a concept: Al and O, '08! We could elect a white guy, an African American, and a woman...

The system is not so much broken as it is "fixed" by the insurance companies - including Medicaid &
Medicare. Private insurance disallows free-market competition by price-fixing what they reimburse a doctor for doing their job. The doctor must accept this or the insurance company won't let him treat any of their customers - sounds alot like a "protection racket" to me. (Youse guys betta play da game OUR way or youse won't be in diz bizness long.) Then the insurance company will stall paying reimbursements making it necessary for the doc to have additional office staff who have to chase the insurance companies. This does more to raise the cost of healthcare than new equipment! Medicare & Medicaid are the worst of the bunch. State run programs - like the one in Maine - are so poorly run that that they are MONTH and YEARS behind in making reimbursements. Hospitals are filing lawsuits just so they can get paid for services they have already done - and you wonder why rural hospitals are closing! Rein in the insurance industry - stop the price-fixing - regulate a single filing form that must be accepted by all insurance companies - legislate fines for insurance companies who are avoiding legitimate payments... then you'll see the price come down!

Hey, I thought the topic was taxes! Well, I guess, considering what universal health care is going to cost, I guess it is about taxes. But I support it anyway. It's time to make other advanced nations stop pitying us for being such morons.

Mr. Gore, I can fully understand why you would not want to run (would any of US be willing to go through that meatgrinder we call political campaigning) and why you can't run: in a word, Clinton. Nonetheless, I wish you could run. You would win in a landslide. And you would save us from at least four years of Hillary, who is disliked even by staunch Democrats.

I can only hope that all of the Dem candidates split up so many primary votes that none goes into the 08 convention with enough to win and that you are chosen by acclamation.

We need you, and Darrell Hammond needs you to guarantee his four more years on SNL.

while I agree with coverage for all
we will need sweeping administrative changes including insurance on both sides of the equation

It seems to me the only ones benifiting from the current system are the insurance companies and attorneys. The biggest misconception is that the doctors benift from this current system.

The proof is in current OBGYN departure from practice

It is really too bad on how our counrty waits until things are too late

YES, Al Gore! But I don't think we will get it with any of the present candidates. We need someone like YOU to run for the presidency. PLEASE run for us, and for your country. We need you. Your country needs you. The world needs you. Please run! None of the other candidates are worth a damn!

Mr. Gore, you are absolutely, positively, RIGHT ON TARGET! Health care is a right! I just cannot believe that Bush vetoed that recent bill. So, depressing, and infuriating! I just cannot understand why people voted him into office, and at that, TWICE! Good Lord. I recently finished "The Assault On Reason" and it just blew me out of the water. It was excellent- I didn't know I was capable of being more dumbfounded and enraged at the Bush Administration than I already was! It's diplorable what they have gotten away with..... do you think that they have any awareness at all that everything they have done is bad, and morally wrong? I myself am jewish, but I have to exclaim here, because I am aware of what Jesus Christ's teachings were- HOW can they call themselves religious, and devout? They behave in the complete opposite way! I think that you would be a SUBLIME President- SUBLIME- our country- the world would be LUCKY to have you representing our interests, but you know, I believe that you are a human being, your own person and that it is really up to you. You have done, and are doing soooo much good already, that personally, I don't think you deserve the low, dirty busness of the Presidential campaign. You are soooooooo far above that. Look what you have done here! This site is fabulous. Genius. You ARE serving your country in such an innovative and brilliant nature. But, I do need to say, that if you do decide to run, you know you have my, and my family's support. We all love you. I am a very passionate democrat, and I would cry with happiness to see you get what you deserved, and had all along- the presidency.

Please run. I watch these clips and think over and over that I'm hearing a thinking President--someone who talks from his heart, not a pre-programmed candidate mouthing the words he or she needs to say to stay safe.

My wife and I and our three children lived for 28 years under the single-payer health care system of Canada. Our experience told us that this was a splendid system, one that took care of all our health needs, even those that involved so-called "elective" procedures (such as the surgical removal of vericose vains). In 1986 I spent 16 days in hospital for a bout of colitis. When I was discharged I walked out of the hostpital without signing any papers or handing over a check. Since I was an American citizen in Canada as a Landed Immigrant, I walked out of that hospital anticipating a tap on the back from someone who would ask me for my insurance card or a check. Of course no noe tapped me on the back: I had paid for my health care through my taxes, and it was my full right to receive it as a tax-paying resident of that great country.

Oprah seems to have had some sort of epiphany! She had Michael Moore on her show and heard many horror stories from patients. She claimed she never realized it was that bad.

Evidently, Oprah thought everybody could afford health insurance policies like hers, but, if she's coming down to the real world, hallelujah! She wants to hear your thoughts at:

https://www.oprah.com/plugger/
templates/BeOnTheShow.jhtml?
action=respond&plugId=290100001

Both of these last posts are on the exact same page as mine (figureatively and literally). I'm afraid if they try to run Hillary down our throats, half of us will choke. Like Roseanne Barr once said (talking about Republicans while I mean Hillary): "It would be like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders". I just couldn't do it (unless she changes her tune, and soon), which could mean the Democrats once again will help put a Republican in the Whilte House (because the Democrats seem to want to offer up nothing but Republican-lite candidates). Plus, she will make Ralph feel compelled to run again in order to provide a voice for the millions of Americans who would be left without any. I think the Democrats are totally capable of blowing this next election for us too. (Choice: Corporate health insurance, or corporate health insurance? Stay the course in Iraq and add Iran, or stay the course in Iraq and add Iran? Please give us a break, AL! America deserves a REAL choice.)

I agree. I know you are 100% correct on this issue. It's so very sad to see hard working American's being left out when it comes to basic health care. We have another growing problem, related to this. The hospitals all around where I live are closing down. They are large, empty, closed buildings. It's as if no one is watching the shop. We could really use a President that shares your view. Too bad you are the only one who get's it.
Please do me a favor, and get back to what you once belonged. Gore 2008 (Check out my photo)

Powerful points, thank you!

I had such great hopes for Obama. He said he was a different kind of candidate, not beholden to special interests, and yet, so far, a bunch of platitudes, no grit. He's fast becoming a blip.

If he'd come out saying he was going to speak the truth about healthcare and used his considerable oratorical skills to explain it to the People in terms that exposed the fear tactics, he would have the people eating out of his hand. Instead, we'll probably have to make do with Hillary because she's better than any Republican, but sadly ain't into stepping on too many toes in high places. (And, of course, her health plan is a complete crock, a lie to the American people. She's smart enough to know Single-Payer is the best thing going.....)

What can we do to encourage Gore to speak out more in the media? Let them get used to the strange phenomenon of a public person actually speaking truthfully to them. We're all hungering for it. If people get used to that, they won't settle for anything less.

It's worth remembering that no matter how much money the special interests throw into campaigns, if the vast majority thinks the other way, they loose, e.g., 2006 election when all the moolah in the world (and dirty tricks) could not swing things for the Republicans because the people (finally!) had turned massively against the war. Or, after Clinton was impeached by the House, public opinion was so overwhelmingly against throwing him out of office, the Right had to drop it.

People Power! Let's use it!

I try to remind politicians how they're going to look once the health care cat is out of the bag if they are left holding it. They will look like those who supported racial bigotry before Civil Rights, and like people (including women) who fought against women's rights before that. Now we are condoning societal discrimination against Americans who fall ill, and it's just plain (morally and fiscally) wrong. No other civilized society condones this (and they all end up paying far less while getting far better health care to boot). It's too bad so many of our politiians (ones who are actually running) are afraid to put their mouths where their money isn't, and I'm sorry to have to include both Hillary and Barak in with that crowd. I'm convinced there is a political field of gold (votes) waiting to be mined for the right person with enough courage, determination and foresight to start picking up on it. Real heroes earn real devotion (and voters). I don't think (if Al won't run) that we have a "people's hero" among the current top contenders on either side. If not, and if Al refuses to serve (it would be double duty), then I am certain that even more innocent lives that could have been saved will be lost and destroyed for no good reason except monetary greed and moral blindness. Al could go down in history as one of the greatest presidents this country ever had (or not). Someone at Daily Kos said something to the effect "The battle between Gore and Clinton is the battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. It will determine whether or not the party goes back to being the party of the people, or becomes another front for Corporate Welfare hacks". I agree.

Thank you; you too, Bluezy!

Beautifully said, Spoon! Whenever I explain to people how Single-payer would work, they all say, of course, that makes the most sense. Then they add, but, of course, it's a pipe dream: everybody knows America is held hostage to the powerful healthcare lobby and our elected representatives, who depend on corporate campaign contributions will never want to rock the boat too much.

So we should all lay down and accept the fact that we can't expect too much from our great democracy? Hell, no! (The Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves.)

In France the people strike when they don't like what their government, which works for them, is putting out. Here, we just medicate and watch "reality" shows.

It's sickening, but not too late. A real movement is growing. Don't despair; jump in and spread the word!

Does it make any logical sense to anyone that the richest nation on Earth is the only civilized one that "can't" afford healthcare for its people (while a very few are walking away with billions of our health care dollars for contributing absolutely nothing except more cost and harm)? How gullible can the Americans people be?

Al could go on Oprah and they could both help explain it to the public. The American people do need him to run for President, and are trying to place the call... but his line is busy.

Al Gore is absolutely right on single-payer. I, for one, am thrilled he's not a Presidential candidate - now - because he's not beholden to any special interests and can actually say what he believes! He should speak out on this subject at every opportunity, tell how the public has been snookered to fear single-payer for over 60 years and explain how a single-payer system would work.

I would hope he'd also talk about John Conyers H.R.676 (Medicare for All) which is an excellent bill! (Learn more about it at healthcare-now.org). Then I would hope everyone would contact their Congressional Representatives and ask them to sign onto this bill and talk about it at every media opportunity.

Once the public realizes the simple superiority of single-payer - thanks to Al Gore straight talk - (superior in every way: cost-containment, efficiency, quality, ethically, etc.) - there will be a mass, overwhelming draft of Gore in the final months of the campaign by the People !!
(the special interests will be irrelevant because even in what's left of our democracy - votes trump money! There's more of us than there are of them.).

Sir,

Americans want you to run and we can be sooo annoying at times, I know. But I doubt any of us will shut up anytime soon - you know how we can be.

The Blue States are yours already, the Purple States are yours too because they look back at what could have been if things had gone differently in 00, that and they feel bad - they feel you need your chance to pull us out of the Hell-hole we are currently in. The Red States (what there is left of them) are a toss up. Nothing you can do about the blind political rage they have.

I know another run for the Presidency may not seem like a fun thing to do right now and in a strange sort of way WINNING the election will totally suck. It will be on your shoulders to fix the multi-layer putrid mess we are in. You know what to do, global warming-wise, but it will also be up to you to fix our debacle in Iraq and what ever mess Bush starts in Iran. Oh and there is that open sore called Afghanistan we should put some compute cycles into.

And did you know the economy is a wreck? Remember that high-falutin' job I had under Clinton / Gore? It went extinct in 2001. The dollar also is lower than a Dick Cheney Dirty Trick™.

So I know you would rather not get sucked into the slime pit known as politics, but we need you.

Few men in American history have been called by a nation for the singular purpose of becoming President. Our founding fathers loved to hide out on their farms and wait for the worst of the hand-wringing to pass when it was their turn to sit and helm the nation that is America. Well, they didn't live in a world that included the Internet, blogs and mass email campaigns. So no matter how far out in the woods your farm may be, I am sure the Internet is available.

Few have been called and you should be warned we will keep dialing.

HIllary and Barak's proposals are to the right of Richard Nixon's, just to show how far we've gone. To Kjbsu, I would reply that you too are trapped in an unsustainable, amoral system, where your only guarantee is that you will continue to "Pay More, Get Less" unless something changes dramatically. If we had to buy Education Insurance before our children could attend public schools, or Police Protection Insurance in order to qualify for police protection, we would have the same problem in those areas also, namely paying too much & getting too little with at least one sixth going totallly without and many more under-protected. If you think your health insurance is working well for you my guess is that you're not very sick (yet), have no idea how much your insurance is costing whoever is paying for it, and don't understand how poorly our current system is working from the Big Picture perspective. 75% of those who file medical bankruptcy had health insurance when they were diagnosed. In reply to "socialized medicine" scare tactics, we have "socialized" parks, libraries, fire & police protection, schools, roads, child protection, mail delivery, and health care for everyone over 65 (hardly any of whom would have health insurance without it) among other things, and still aren't Communist or Socialist. Socialization can mean working together for society's benefit, and that's exactly what it would mean with health care. Our current health insurance system is ANTI-social and Fascist (run for the Welfare of the Corporations at the expense of the Good of the Whole). If you think you are safe in this system, you are mistaken.

kenwooda, I have no doubt you are a nice person. Have you checked what the Republicans have to offer for health care? www.republicansforsinglepayer.com
This is not your father's Republican Party anymore. I hope we don't have to depend on them for the final push. Dwight Eisenhower would be ashamed, even Nixon would cringe at the way these people think. Are you sure you are still a Republican?

As a Republican and as a full-time emegency physician for nearly 30 years, I think we should work on convincing corporate American that the type of universal health plan envisioned by Al Gore is not just a Democratic Party position for helping the poor, but that it is also good for big business and for ALL of us. I suspect that the final push for universal coverage will come from the Republican Party as they come to realize this, and they will add crucial input to make the defining legislation a success.

Personally, I think my school just pulled a fast one on me over insurance, because I had to switch to their program to go here. They seem don't actually cover any medical problems, and they don't help with medicine payments at all. Poor college students, I highly doubt, can pay over a hundred dollars for some medicine. It's pretty strange, really, and my family had fairly good insurance. I don't know how expensive it actually is, though...Single payer seems like a good idea to me, but the tricky part would be convincing the rest of congress to go for it.

(p.s. Please Run!)

O.K. so what I do not understand is how what Mr. Gore is proposing is any different than Socialism. This idea that health care is a right is not exactly right.

What about the people that have completely fine health care that they pay for. Are they going to have to sacrifice their completely fine health care for something that the government is going to attempt to provide. I use the word attempt because with taking care of the whole entire nation is the health care the government is going to provide going to be as sufficient as some peoples health care is that they pay for?

I know their are people that do not have health care and that is horrible, but what about the people that do?I believe in solving their problem you are going to hurt the other people that have quality health care by substituting something that is not as good of quality.

Right on Sophy. I haven't understood the reason for insurance companies for a very long time. Looks like their main job is to skim off 31% of our health care dollars. Why shouldn't the people that spent years in school becoming a doctor be getting that money? Sounds more reasonable to me. I like PNHP plan. It sounds more workable than any other.

To make health care truly universal and without the profit motives that skim off resources from the sick and elderly, let's work towards a single payer health care model. Let's stop spending 31% of our health care expenditures on paperwork (this is what the private insurance industry does).

As a physician who takes care of people without health insurance, I see and take care of what happens when people don't have access to adequate primary health care. It's a mess that must be fixed.

Democracy for America is having a Presidential Poll.

you can vote for your preference, Al Gore, by checking "other" and writing in Al Gore.

vote here:
http://democracyforamerica.com/pulsepoll?s=1

Me three. The AMA fought Medicare like crazy back in the sixties. They were wrong then and they're wrong now. With a national median household income around $48,000 gross, and average cost of health insurance alone through an employer over $12,000 for a family, allowing ten percent and higher cost increases to continue unabated (health insurance inflation heaped on top of care inflation) the numbers just don't, and won't, add up. Defending the health insurance industry in this country only works if we ignore the damage it is doing to every other business except itself, and to all Americans except a very few. It is an embarrassment to our Capitalist system on the world stage. Every other industrialized nation manages to offer better care for everyone at a fraction of the cost compared to what we spend to ration one out of every six of our people completely out. Why can't we do what all other civilized nations manage to do?
First we must open our eyes and stop admiring the emperor's old robes, and we need leadership that hasn't sold the people out to the highest bidder to help us get it done.

From the PNHP page......
"We endorse a fundamental change in America's health care - the creation of a comprehensive National Health Insurance (NHI) Program. Such a program - which in essence would be an expanded and improved version of Medicare - would cover every American for all necessary medical care."........

My thoughts EXACTLY!

Thank you karinmd. You are apparently the kind of person all doctors should be. You actually care about people. Bless you.

Bravo Al Gore! As a physician (general internist), I completely agree with Mr. Gore regarding our need for Universal Health Care coordinated and funded through the government. I see people everyday who are suffering under our current immoral system. I'm a member of Physicians for a National Health Program. You can view their site at: www.pnhp.org/
Thank you for once again rising to the occasion Mr. Gore!!

He won't find anyone more reliable than the Census Bureau, and personally I think they're under-counting (but can't prove it). I've seen the right-wing claims and they are laughable in a sad, sick twisted sort-of way. Reliable figures estimate the number of uninsured for part of the year (not the entire year) are between 63,000,000 - 85,000,000 depending upon whose estimate you'd prefer to believe. Apparently it's a difficult number to figure out. The numbers of under-insured also seem to vary depending upon who is doing the guess-timating. The increased number of uninsured also corresponds with an increased number of Americans under government-sponsored health insurance, so the number would be even worse if not for increased SCHIP coverage. The right-wing tries to claim the Census Bureau figures include those who are not covered for only part of a year, and that is where the lie begins. All jawnybnsc will be able to provide are opinion pieces and right-wing think tank numbers. Go figure.

jawnybnsc, Don't call Spoon a liar unless you can prove it. Looks to me like Spoon has the facts to back up the statement. It's up to you to disprove it. Now get er done.

Al Gore is winning the DFA "pulse poll" with 31% of the vote (Hillary less than 6%!!) Vote at www.democracyforamerica.com until midnight Nov. 5. Spread the word!

Thank you Al Gore for stating it clearly and in no uncertain terms. Health care is most certainly a right and like Michael Moore keeps saying - we should not have a for-profit company in between us and our doctors with Big Pharma wielding so much power. Ten year survey of gov't statistics released in 2004: iatrogenic illness, i.e., illness resulting FROM medical treatment is the LEADING cause of death in the USA: 300,000 per year! This includes death caused by adverse reactions to prescription drugs! Take the profit motive out and you might begin to create a true health care system.....imagine that!

spoon, your 47 million uninsured figure is a LIE and you know it.

dmccanne,

I think you've misconstrued the Hurwicz/Maskin thesis. You've presumed certain conditions that they almost certainly did not and you have not demonstrated any scientific basis for concluding that healthcare is contemplated in their work. Everyone understands that there are conditions under which markets don't work optimally. I've never seen anyone then proceed to the conclusion that therefore markets don't/can't work and should be abandoned in favor of a publicly/government operated system. In other words . . . you're reaching.

Thanks Spoon.

:-)) You might want to check out what's going on at daily kos if you haven't already:
www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/20/0118/9750

Hope they didn't shut it down. Someone was going to try to.

Spoon, I was overwhelmed with their generosity. Be sure and recommend it to Eitra. He might like to add to his wonderful plan. Leave it to the Republicans to give so much and be fiscally responsible too.

Check this site out: www.republicansforsinglepayer.com

STOP TEASING US, IT'S TORTURE.

Run Mr. Gore, RUN!

Please run for President Mr. Gore, with John Edwards as VP. Hillary and Obama will never make it a priority to abolish the lobbying in DC. Murdock, WalMart and the Health Insurances have already bought out Hillary.

Americans have to follow a leader and understand that they have to do sacrifices. You are the one !!
I know you could serve a great deal as ambassador for the Planet under any of the current candidates but you can implement all your plans for the Earth also if you were President by appointing great people.

Please rescue us. We feel like America nd the Constitution are sold

Marilynn, I had a feeling that was the case. Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I was talking to our regional hospital CEO (a real one) using essentially the same arguments a couple of weeks ago. Last week he found out he's been downsized and is suddenly and unexpectedly out of a job (in his late fifties). Almost everyone in this country is one job change, accident, illness, divorce or death of a spouse away from joining 47 million others. The problem is hardly anyone believes it, and almost no one sees it coming. Did I aleady say that our 16% of uninsured Americans becomes 30% if we don't count those already on some form of subsidized, "socialized" federal (but not state or local) health plan? Thank you for your support. Now what do we do to get Al to step up to the plate? If he doesn't, I'm pretty angry with him, understandably and rightfully so. Maybe if he watches "The Girl In the Cafe" starring Kelly MacDonald and Bill Nighy, he would chnage his mind. She represents the conscience that people with power and position (who mean well) know is right but don't always hear. "How can you know people are dieing, know what to do to save them, and then refuse to do those things?" It's a great message.

Spoon, Eitra is telling tall tales. The doctor story is just that. He probably doesn't own his shoes let alone a business, or he wouldn't have time to play on the computer trying to promote Ayn Rand's bull crap. You have obviously done your homework on the facts and figures, he hasn't so he resorts to fantasy. His plans for the weekend probably include picking up trash alongside the freeway. You keep it up maybe people will begin to understand.