Is It OK To Break the Law?

"Lucid rock" an antagonistic start?
/shrugs, but no worries either way.

I wholly agree with you that there are multiple forms of intelligence and that IQ scores need to be taken with a grain of salt. I had actually said just that in my above post:

"generally I don't trust the absolute validity of such tests as there really are multiple forms of intelligence."

Because of which, I offered other indicators that correspond with the testing data since you had questioned the integrity of my claimed capacity.

Regarding the intellectual capacity of you and your family, I would not question your statements nor will I comment on them beyond that they all sound like lovely people. This post is far more rational and collected, and I have no problem accepting this at face value.

My actual intellectual capacity isn't even relevant to the crux of the topic on this thread, which is whether what this Tasmin Osmond girl proposes is in fact ethical or not.

On this, people made the assertion that one should use their passion to pursue what is right.

I responded that such unbridled passion in unintelligent people that have an absolute sense of self-certainty is dangerous.

The reasoning being is that such people become reckless in their pursuit of a "just cause". Having poor reasoning capabilities, such people are able to justify anything . . . even destroying random cars and firebombing houses (as was mentioned in the vid).

These "dumb" people think that this is the only right course because they "know" the truth and they "know" what they have to do . . . and yet they don't recognize how horribly illogical their thought processes are.

That is my argument, everything beyond this is extraneous. If you have any comments on this argument, I sincerely would love to hear them.

I had offered my perspective of someone who has a relatively higher intellectual capacity ONLY to provide comparative reasoning to show how people of a lesser capacity are not aware of their own mental limitations.

This isn't meant as an outlet for me to be triumphant or to toot my own horn. I generally do not think of myself as being better than other people. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Though I did express disdain for people AFTER they lobbed personally derisive comments, such as QCBUCKI and strive4peace. Beforehand, I didn't say anything about them personally at all.

I think you misinterpreted who actually started this personal exchange (check the timeline, all of my posts were civil to everyone here on this thread, until said people began with the personal attacks), and I also would not call people that feel the need to start such a personal exchange "nice". How you came to that conclusion, I can not say.

Now to continue with our own personal dialogue regarding people with remarkable native intellectual capabilities.

Autistic savants are quite remarkable for their peculiar brain mechanics, though I agree with you about not seeing this as a sign of intelligence.

Intelligence, as far as I understand, requires an abstract interpretive ability to make predictions on a large scale. This is something that autistic savants unfortunately lack. ("idiot savants" is a term most people don't use anymore, for whatever pc reason)

(cont)

Kim Peak from "Rain Man" is very interesting. There is another savant that I find most interesting, Daniel Tammet. He has many of the capabilities of autistic savants but functions rather normally in society. The synesthetic phenomenon surrounding his calculations of numbers is absolutely amazing.

The BBC documentary is on youtube if you feel inclined to watch, I think you'd probably like it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbASOcqc1Ss

This isn't genius though. This is an amazing mechanism of the brain for collecting and processing certain kinds of data, but it lacks exceptional abstract interpretation and understanding as would be characterized by genius.

As for my own intellectual capability, as it has become a topic of ours, I think I do well in math, verbal, spatial, and with modesty I think I do particularly well with abstract logical concepts.

For whatever reason, my brain is partitioned in a way that separates logical thought processes from the emotional spectrum, and this is very much a double edged sword as I think you would recognize.

In one sense, it's an amazing tool since emotions naturally distort logic and without these emotions the clarity of the picture is markedly increased. On the other hand, it does take the humanity out of the picture quite often.

That isn't to say that I have no emotions, or even that I'm not an emotional person. I experience things so vividly in the emotional spectrum at times that it moves me to tears. I enjoy this emotional spectrum, but it remains segregated out of my logical reasoning.
I can be emotional, but I don't think emotionally.
(I can't quite tell if this is a plus or minus against my emotional skills, but I think they are fine.)

This is how my brain has naturally functioned for as long as I can remember, at least since the age of 4. This in turn leads to my social skills, the area where I have the most problems. I instinctually spend most of my time inside my head thinking about this thing or the other. Thus, I'm often aloof and introverted and at times I don't always know how to make solid social connections during introductions.

However, I get along quite well with friends and family that I feel comfortable with. I simply do not involve my harsh logical tendencies (as you've seen me express) in these relationships, as I can even find them to be abrasive myself.

Being able to come online and let this portion of my brain run free is very nice since I don't have to worry about any social stigmas, though even still, I try to be polite to people . . . at least that is until I'm treated otherwise, then I might pick said person apart if I feel inclined. That's not always healthy and polite of me, but then neither were the initial comments posted by qcbucki, strive4peace, or even yours for that matter. But, no worries.

Anywho, any of the misgivings in my personality I think stem from the actual functions of my brain versus some underlying feeling of superiority based on said test scores, as I think you would be incorrect in concluding that to being the root cause.

I have always periodically assessed my skills and I don't see anything there worth being over-confident about. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, I'm familiar with mine and I'm actually normally very humble about them since I sincerely feel stupid most of the time when trying to piece together the universe.

Richard Feynman articulates this feeling very well, better than I do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lytxafTXg6c

I really like Feynman. He's emotional but doesn't think emotionally, intelligent but without hubris, serious but also lighthearted. He mirrors much of my personality as far as I can tell. . . except he's far more charismatic.

But, I digress . . .

Anywho, It was nice that this conversation took a lighter and kinder turn. For that, thank you. =)

Thanks for the nice exchange of ideas. One thing about Current for me: It is a love/hate relationship. And, its too easy to judge people by one comment, to strike out with anger without fear of retribution , and one word misunderstood stands out and can cause an inappropriate reaction.

I worry about this generation that never knew life without computers and gadgets. I love the line by Drew Barrymore in the movie: "He's just not that into you". It was a book written by a man who wanted to help women who want to think that every man she dates is the "one". The line is paraphrased here: "I tried to call him on his cell phone, he didn't answer so I sent a text and got no response. When I got home I sent an email with no luck, so then I twittered, went to facebook and finally got him. I had to go through 5 different portals to have a guy break up with me and it is exhausting!"

My point is (Its a great movie, btw) the generation now between ages 20-25 could be totally without emotion and have great difficulty communicating face to face with real people. Even in the workplace there are so many email wars. Often because one word is interpreted as an attitude and/or the tone seems negative.

I have made a lot of friends here and some people make my blood boil. So when we blow things up, it can lead to the beginning of a resolution which is good. But, many times, we give up on some people because they are soooo unstable, or they simply will not change their opinion or position on an issue which is totally irrational .

Your thoughts about not mixing emotions with logic is a standard "male" thing. You see it everywhere. My husband is a great husband and father but he came from a home where each person was stoic. I came from a divorced, alcoholic home filled with emotion. I raised myself from the age of 14. I survived by putting all those memories in "Pandora's box" in my head. Once in a while, the box would fly open and I would be screaming like a banshee . My youngest has a personality a lot like his dad but fortunately got his sensitivity from his mother. When a family goes bad, the child has 2 choices. Give in and follow the only path you know. OR, if you are introspective enough, you figure out that life doesn't' have to be that way. I can remember being about 10, laying in bed and thinking, thinking. I was not going to be like my family, I wanted to treat people with respect, get an education and hold my head high. I did this in part due to the wonderful mothers of my friends who understood my situation and I modeled them. On other nights I thought for hours about the Universe. And wondered IF I could fly, what would I see once I reached the end. Then I questioned if there was an end, what would be behind that? A wall? on and on.

In your social side, just be yourself. My mother had a lot of wisdom when she was sober. She taught me that other people would hate you if you were beautiful (She was a gorgeous woman), that people would be jealous of your inner beauty as well. Men use their hate with war or confrontations and women seem to be passive aggressive and will stab you in the heart with words when they are mad.

It has been a long journey for me but I can look back with great pride of what I was able to overcome/accomplish. The hard part was to forgive my mother for abandoning me at a time when I needed her most. She is 79 now so all bets are off. She has alzheimers and I see her often. I can no longer hate her or dismiss her or be ashamed of her.

Have a great week!

Give 'em hell, QC!

(BTW -- This is the worst response time from Current.com ever! The web must be going at the speed of dark!)

lol, what?

This is the most inarticulate thing I've read on Current in a while, and that is saying a LOT. I mean can you even read what you wrote???

I would respond, but why?

You demonstrate zero comprehension, zero thought structure, and zero rationality . . . yeah, I think I'll pass. This level of passion in DUMB people is effing scary. It's just like that crazy chick from the vid . . . but, holy effing wow . . . thanks for proving my point.

Good luck with life my friend, try not to fail at it to much.

/laughs and walks away

wow!! The government succeeded in making you one of it's sheeple! WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM...?! i am really starting to think that some posts are just tests by the gov to see if they can make robotic bloggers that can sway the minds of the internet community and they have a long way to go if that is the case

I PRAY FOR YOU TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU FREAKING WEIRDO

That's right strive4peace. I work for the CIA . . . /laughs maniacally . . . or not.

If you want to protest, protest.

Please, go out to the auto manufacturing plants and protest them for building cars that pollute. Head out to the coal refineries and protest. Hell, even go to your local brewery and protest how much co2 they release in their fermentation process. Go to Parliament or the White House and protest that they aren't doing enough to stop pollution. By all means, protest.

Protest intelligently with aims that actually produce changes that make a difference. "No 3rd Runway" does not make a difference. It won't stop people from flying or stop planes from taking off the ground. All it will do is cause congestion.

Dumb people often don't realize they are dumb, and this probably accounts for 90% of humanity. These people then become reckless and possibly dangerous when they think they "know" what is right and they become energized by a level of passion that overrides what little common sense they had to begin with.

Intelligent passion is a wonderful thing, www.TED.com is a great example. On the other hand, passion mixed with stupidity is a scary thing.

What you wrote demonstrates that you are far to simplistic in your thought process and offer nothing of value to add to intelligent discourse.

By all accounts, you appear to be dumb, and yet think you are smart.

I often feel dumb, and yet my IQ consistently tested in the top 1%. What does that say about the other 99% of humanity?

But hey, do whatever makes you happy, as long as you do not harm another person, their property, or their personal rights.

Lucidstone:

Is that a name for a 'smart rock'?

You can always tell a Ass-hole when he starts telling people his IQ. Which I so doubt yours is what you say.
YOUR statement:
"By all accounts, you appear to be dumb, and yet think you are smart."

"I often feel dumb, (yes, we noticed that) and yet my IQ consistently tested in the top 1%. What does that say about the other 99% of humanity?"

Gee, I guess it says you are one of the smartest people in the world?!?!?

Just remember, people who have to flaunt their attributes...usually are the ones that lack self confidence so they need to 'blow their own horn" which means "LOOK HOW SMART I AM!?

btw, was that 99% from grade school.

Watch the insults you throw at people who are nice AND smart but may be an older person or a disabled person, you never know. Treat people with respect.

/shrugs

If you really want to understand, clear your mind of your anger and resentment towards me and I'll articulate the honest truth to the best of my ability.

I only offered my tested IQ as a frame of reference as I was talking about the perceptions of and the actions of dumb people. It was a relevant usage for comparative reasoning.

I'm actually quite humble given my intelligence because no, I honestly don't think I'm one of the smartest people in the world, far from it.

In a billion people, being in the top 1% only puts you in a group of 10 million people. So no, I don't think I'm genius. I see many things that many other people don't, but not as much as I would like to.

I know my limitations and I'm comfortable with them, and I push them regardless because although my processor speed isn't as fast as genius, I hope that my architecture allows me to get to the same answer even if it takes longer. I have an unrelenting drive to understand and my brain doesn't stop, so I divert it at times like I'm doing now.

But if you really want to know, the testing was done in gradeschool and in highschool, generally I don't trust the absolute validity of such tests as there really are multiple forms of intelligence.

My parents tested as adults in between 98-99%. They did it on a lark when they were in their 20's because psychology was all the rage back then; and, by their own admission as well as my own recognition, I see a clearer picture then they do.

Also, I've been told by past teachers (AP physics & English) that I was the brightest kid they ever had. Even if that's only half true, that puts me over 99%.

You had me thinking of how my current IQ would actually stand so I went to http://www.mensa.org/workout2.php . . . I finished within the timeframe leaving #19 blank and got 29 out of 30, #19 required a word that I actually don't think I ever heard . . . so I just expanded my vocabulary by one word =)

So the statement of intelligence isn't one of condescension, but of one of reality.

If I realize the limitations of my own intellectual capacity, then what does that say of the intellectual capacity of the other 990million people in that group of 1billion.

I watch people all the time with horribly illogical thought structures proclaim how they "know". Many DUMB people actually think they are smart. That's a fact. When you add that level of passion to false certainty, all rationality goes out the window and anything becomes justifiable. That is scary.

So instead of attacking the logic of my argument you attack me as a person. Meaning that you are unable to find flaw with the actual truth I'm putting forward for examination.

Furthermore, I really am not concerned if my conclusions hurt any particular person's feelings. If someone makes a public statement that is flawed, I'm going to dissect it, tear it apart, and show where and how they were wrong. A person's feelings is irrelevant to objective truth.

Also, I hold no reverence for the elderly and mentally disabled. They are just as likely, if not more so, to be as wrong as the next person.

As for yourself Barbara, you demonstrate a very crude intellectual argument and you do not portray yourself with any grace that another elderly lady may have had . . . but, that's just my analysis of what you wrote and how you wrote it. It's not meant to be polite or even impolite.

As for the word lucidstone, there are several poetic images linked to that word that have personal meaning . . . ones that I'll keep to myself, thank you.

Hah. Nice save.
Well, at least you have a sense of humor about being part of an illiterate group of know-nothings.
(I could have capitalized that, and I suspect you would have know the reference, as I suspect you went to school when reading and history were in vogue.)
Best,
Ampersand

what are you on??

i'd say people are crazy if they don't stand up for what is right...

strive4peace,

"standing up for what is right" doesn't entail destroying random people's cars or firebombing homes. This is where this Tamsin chick is headed by her own words, if she "has the courage to take it there".

The whole vid is trying to justify everything she says after 6:40, and she is effing nuts.

If you're going to use Malcolm X as your moral compass . . . then you are very lost indeed.

Bravo. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I like the way these good looking British girls think. Sadly I think her American counterparts, no matter the sex. If they tried to pull something like that, in this police state, they would find themselves face first on the ground, not calmly walking away as if they live in a free society. I hope actions like these remain free, open, and savagely democratic.

Freedom.