The problem with most atheists' arguments

Except atheist fight in wars.

I simply meant that Aethists shouldn't have to go door to door and "convert". But then again, who am I to stop anyone from doing that.

Atheist. . . religious. . . They all have their good and bad apples.

Yes, this is especially true of "identifying" beliefs which we use to shape our own identities and separate ourselves from others.

People tend to be fond of their current identities for a fairly obvious reason; all of their good experiences happened while they were themselves, we are each conditioned to continue being who we are. From that perspective it is understandable that we would be reluctant to take a chance on a new identity, with no history of positive experiences behind it.

The most successful debate techniques make the speaker's argument look like a natural part of the opponent's world view, which fits even better than their current beliefs. (easier said than done)

Atheist are no different when challenged as you showed on the first page when replying to me.

Jammer, aren't you going against your own "rules" of staying on topic and not making this about you right now?

No.

The topic is atheist and my comment concerns atheist....and I do mean all of them. I know a lot of atheist and the claim to like talking, but they only like it when they know they are right.

Makes for boring conversations.

That's why it's ok to bash Christians but no Atheist. That's why this thread got so many comments....bashing Christians. That's why your thread about the billboard was so huge was because you allowed people to bash Christians.

Not until page four did you decide to state that the article didn't specify who did the death threat.

The moment there is an atheist article that doesn't mention God....or Christians....

that's not even possible.

Gotta keep ground in logic on that one. Atheist don't believe in God and yet they have to talk about him constantly.

*gasp* were you baiting?

Couldn't you have put all of those ideas into one comment? Anyway...

You can't control what people say on threads that are posted. No where in that billboard article did the original source, nor I, claim that Christians were behind it. If I didn't respond in a timely enough fashion for ya, it's probably because I was tied up in having my own personal battle against another user accusing me of providing an outlet of hate and whatnot.

I'm not saying that atheists don't get hateful. They sure do, just like everyone else. But I don't think I provoke it by asking questions, by bringing atheists news to the spotlight, by arguing religion and philosophy. If anything I think that hateful mentality is pretty childish; I have no particular intention of making people think that those who believe in god are less than anyone else. I have many friends and family members whom I respect greatly who are believers- my mom, who considers herself a Christian, is probably my biggest influence.

Having said that, sometimes arguments are good, even if they get out of line. There's always something to be learned from them, whether it's how to articulate your own point, understand someone else's, or have a deeper understanding of the way people react to you. I'm certainly guilty, especially when I first got on Current, of having people react defensively to me and my message. I had to really think about what I was saying and why I was saying it; that's why I love Current, for the conversation and self exploration of my debate style.

You, Jammer, are capable of perfectly nice and normal conversation. Even if it's not nice, you are capable of explaining yourself and how you feel without being a dick on purpose and without making an argument you don't even care about just to go against the popular mentality. But it seems you hide that capability, you reserve it; it's not a face you show everyone and I seriously do wonder why. Being "That Guy" on Current isn't helping anyone understand you, where you are coming from or any of your arguments- your behavior actually deters people from wanting any of that. Maybe YOU don't want people to understand you, I don't know. Are these things you even think about?

I couldn't. There's something wrong with the comment box. It won't let me make longer than a few words. Sorry.

I am not nice. I am difficult, I am stubborn and I am opinionated. I am also very fair, polite and loyal. You get all sides just like anyone else...including friends and family.

Everyone is like that in some ways, I think. We all have has sides, but your edges are unnecessarily sharper and harder to grasp!

"All" is stretching it.

I don't know anyone who is one dimensional...

Guess you've never read about serial killers.

Serial killers don't seem one dimensional! I haven't read about them recently, but hell, I do watch a lot of Dexter...hopefully I don't know any personally...

haha. Dexter is good, but that is a TV show and they couldn't really make a boring person. One dimensional as in boring. They are not boring, they are one dimensional in personalty. Crazy. They are great actors enough to fake everything else. They are not nearly as complex as they personify.

Dexter RULES! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!

I approve of this message.

WTF are you talking about? The article assumes that theists are the only ones that can be subjected to having their world turned upside-down by having their core beliefs torn-down, when that is completely untrue. Here's the quote:

"the mind of a lifelong religionist has become dependent on religious beliefs to hold it up and to function. If those beliefs were just instantly removed, nothing else in the brain would make sense. They are completely intertwined... like a ball of Christmas tree lights."

Using the above sentence as the basis of why theists stay theists is ironically hypocritical because the same goes for ANYONE with a belief, whether it's atheist, agnostic, or theistic.

this is still an assumption. a mere inference at best.

religions (& the cultures that present them) give you a complete structure for life, even down to the most minute details. "They are completely intertwined... like a ball of Christmas tree lights" therefore renders itself completely true to theism.

however, the freedom in a nontheistic mentality gives a person individual choice over every facet of life that religions seek to structure for you (should you allow it). to say "the same goes for ANYONE with a belief, whether it's atheist, agnostic, or theistic" makes NO sense because only theism comes with a set structure. i mean, unless there's an agnostic or atheist scripture i'm unaware of...?

also for anything to be "ironically hypocritical" it must be doing the opposite of what it is saying. because there is no how-to-live specific structure with non theism, how exactly is it opposing itself that doesn't exist?

the point is, a lot of religious people do what they're told, lacking any understanding as to why. a lot of atheists are ex-religious people who decided to question things. as the latter, i wish i'd doubted sooner but my Christmas lights were too tangled. how can anyone be so irate about an article encouraging one to trust themselves?

"only theism comes with a set structure. i mean, unless there's an agnostic or atheist scripture i'm unaware of...?"

Of course there isn't a scripture, there's only one defining rule: the disbelief in god. But we're talking about religion in general, not the scriptures of them all. If you have a belief (ANY belief) then your mind is intertwined in lights, so to speak, some tighter than others. The only people who don't are the ones who don't have an opinion on religion either way and couldn't give a shit.

"also for anything to be "ironically hypocritical" it must be doing the opposite of what it is saying. because there is no how-to-live specific structure with non theism, how exactly is it opposing itself that doesn't exist?"

The article is hypocritical, not atheism. It's suggesting the atheists are inherently smarter than theists and theists need to be shown their foolish ways. Gee, doesn't that sound like a prominent Western church we all know about; the heathens are wrong and must be converted?

"how can anyone be so irate about an article encouraging one to trust themselves?"

Lady, can you read? This article seems to be friendly, but if you look at the undercurrent it's very hateful and arrogant. It suggests that all religious people are wrong and gives reasons on why they think the way they do. It even gives you a step-by-step list of how to convert them. Here's the quote that blew me away:

"Perhaps it will ultimately take them all the way to Level 3. But even if they stop at Level 2 – that is, they continue to hold religious beliefs – we have still succeeded."

WE HAVE STILL SUCCEEDED?!? Who the fuck is we and what the hell are we trying to do? We don't have an agenda and the gall of this author to promote such a negative agenda is saddening. I can't stand militant, forceful atheism. It makes all of us look no better than the extreme evangelicals whose mantra is 'convert or kill'.

Atheism is fine, this article sucks.

i took this article in nothing more than a comedic light and still find your anger unnecessary and just as uncalled for as the condescension (that, i'll admit, i didn't register until i read your last comment) presented in the article.

i read a funny atheist peice, you read a "militant, forceful atheism" article. toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe

Eh, po-tay-toe po-tah-toe.

It could be because you like the article and are bias to liking it and therefore found it funny because you're not too kind to those that are religious.

"Just sayin...."

that and nothing in life should be taken seriously? :P my whole entire family is conservative and christian so to make a judgement about how kind i am or am not to religious people is out of left field but exactly like a christian. hey if you can judge, so can i man.

If only you thought that as you posted here.

tu Nettle/Lilly------"Et tu ,...Bru teh to"!?

If you don't have anyone in mind then you should make another topic and stick to the topic at hand.

That's the logical thing to do.

I was really going to recommend your post because it was good....the first paragraph is good until the end of it.

I wanted to to. Then it just ended up reading like any other atheist high and mighty post.

@wakeuppeople, I love your analysis, very well done. My browser is acting up on this machine that I am currently on and obfuscates the recommend button. Otherwise I would have recommended this one.

Lovely post, I don't see the high and mighty in it. The 'danger' that exists is inherent in any organization so why not religion?

The problems I have with most of these discussions is that there are too many generalizations. I have the most amazing friends, a sizable amount of them, and they range from atheist to members of various religions- for Christianity is but one- as well as a few pagans. The only sweeping judgment I can make about the lot of them is that they are amazing human beings; we just happen to have differing views on a lot of things (including politics). The thing I think would help most of us in any situation would be to realize that we are all reflections of each other. The things that annoy us about other people the most are the things we don't like about ourselves. You can't recognize something in someone else that does not exist inside of you. How much these things bother us is an indication of how resistant we are to (or how much we suppress) recognition of those same things within us.

While I can agree that some atheists (and a few of their posts) can be high and mighty, I'd like to point out that it's really high and mighty of Christians to speak as if they are the only religion being referred to when atheists say the word religion (and to the atheists that really are referring only to Christians, be mindful that your are only encouraging the incorrigible behavior you say you despise; plus, it's annoying).

That it is. This article just bated everyone.

Was I speaking to you?

Don't worry about I, its for fun

But that is what we Atheists do...
...masturbate in public.

metalcookiesxy
is that symbol at the end of your post a penis with 3 sets of balls?

I was speaking to you.

That's all that matters.

See now you are guilty of what you accuse everyone else of doing. So laughable and predictable, now I am playing you like a fiddle.

Masturbation in groups can be very fun.....especially with well endowed atheists.

Sticky situation.

You are responding to me. Can't play someone if you're the one following.

@Julian

Ugh, thats nasty!~ I've never thought about it, neither did it ever cross my mind!~

Disgusting..Why couldn't ya just e-mailed me?

I didn't make this username

Yes I have heard that group masturbation can get very sticky....LOL

Don't have callous hands.

Don't have chapped lips.

Humidity helps.

It's amazing that people like satire let alone shows like the Daily Show when they can't tell the difference between what is and isn't.

Speaks more of what you think of others than it does about me.

I was always a bigger fan of the response; "The Devil put those bones there to trick people into evolution"

In which case, the devil seems to be incredibly good at his job.

poor Odin

OMT = Oh My Thor?

Lol! No, 'teapot', as in Russell's Celestial Teapot. Same thing, though.

Granted the article is somewhat arrogant.

But, Disproving the existence of something is a topsy turvy notion. A literally infinite number of things are impossible to dis-prove but that isn't a fantastic reason for believing in them.

Just a point of fact.

If there was an award for best post in individual threads....yours would win in this thread.

You keep going with posts like this.

I'm smart enough not to share that.

so you obviously do. but if you exposed them you would be smart enough to know that others would be able to point out the flaws in them? is that what youre saying? so instead you just criticize, poorly and irrationally. so much so that it makes other want to stop, not because you 'win' but because you are the type of person that keeps yelling and bantering well after the argument has ended. Since you have lasted the longest and haven't stopped continuously bitching you feel like you have won but really you're just the nutcase with an anger issue and determination to annoy the crap out of any person with an opinion you can spin.

There is a quote that suggests when there is silence that doesn't mean you've convinced anyone or won anything.

As for the reason why I don't bother sharing? That would be because I'm already made the topic of many threads by not revealing much. If I reveal more then that would escalate. It's not a good idea to do something that'll give people more reason to speak about me instead of the topic.

That is why.

"It's not a good idea to do something that'll give people more reason to speak about me instead of the topic."

You do this all the time through your behavior

I am not the topic. The rules say so.

Ok, you went too far there. Atheism doesn't mean absence of morals.

Theism isn't devoid of reason.

Looks like I'm playing by the "logical" rules of this debate.

I never said theism is devoid of reason. In case you missed it, I didn't like what most of this article said.

But it's completely unfair to claim that atheist morality is an oxymoron. You know that.

My reply wasn't to you. I also didn't say you.

But someone did say it and that's why my comment is within the same dysfunctional reasoning.

So that's when you need to REPLY to someone instead of making stand alone comments that make you look like an ass and invite others to comment.

I made the reply as I wanted to.

Just as you made your reply as you wanted to ignoring anything that would suggest you to reply otherwise.

:bashes head against keyboard:

You are so frustrating. I'm serious about what I said about being glad I don't know you in real life...

Perfectly better.