Election 2008 | October 04, 2008 | 28 comments

Factcheck.org: loose with the truth in St. Louis

source: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/10/03/factcheck-org-loose-with-the-truth...

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BuddyP
According to the nonpartisan researchers at Factcheck.org (a NEWSWEEK partner), Biden and Palin "were not 100 percent accurate [in St. Louis last night] - to say the least." Here's how the cookie crumbled:

* Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to "pre-surge" levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.
* Biden incorrectly said "John McCain voted the exact same way" as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.
* Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on "families" making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.
* Biden wrongly claimed that McCain "voted the exact same way" as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.
* Palin claimed McCain's health care plan would be "budget neutral," costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.
* Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.
* Palin wrongly claimed that "millions of small businesses" would see tax increases under Obama's tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.
  1. groups:
    Election 2008
  2. tags:
    Barack Obama,  Election 2008,  John McCain,  Sarah Palin,  24 more
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28 comments // Factcheck.org: loose with the truth in St. Louis

  • CreeOss
    • 0
      CreeOss  

    • Where is the accountability? The lies go over the airwaves, and nobody corrects it until the next day, when hardly anyone is watching...leaving most people to believe untrue things and pass them along to their friends and family through a disconcerting game of telephone. Jeepers. These candidates should be forced to go on air, Nov. 2nd, and list and apologize for all the lies they spewed as fact during their run for our trust as the vice presidents and presidents of the United States. F*ck Yeah!

    • 3 years ago
  • donkeyfly69
    • 0
      donkeyfly69  

    • they both lied, just like mccain and obama. the sad thing is that either way it doesn't matter because one of these pairs of liars is going to be our next president and v.p.

      all 4 of them can dress up like clowns and punch nuns in the face on abc and still have their spot secure.

    • 3 years ago
  • billssqueeze
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  

    • The strange part is that a lot of the mistakes in the facts were the same in the Obama/McCain debate.

      I would've thought they could've at least corrected those and made different mistakes.

      Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

      Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

      Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

    • 3 years ago
  • SDLN
    • 0
      SDLN  
    • Argon18:

      I would venture to say that both campaigns are more interested in being effective than correct; that there's probably some poll or focus group that shows those particular lies are appealing to whatever base it is they're pandering to. That would be my guess.

    • 3 years ago
  • Argon18
  • donkeyfly69
  • ChristmasAsen
  • Argon18
    • 0
      Argon18  
    • Argon18:

      Was there a "not" left out of there? It would make more sense that way since most people do NOT check the facts.

      I have even posted the facts from that page a lot in the last few months and most have ignored them since they would rather go with their own opinion.

    • 3 years ago
  • SDLN
    • 0
      SDLN  

    • The Wall Street Journal's Executive Washington Editor Jerry Seib calls the VP Debate a study in contrasts. This is one the more fair assessments of the debate that I've come across.

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
  • krag2112
  • J_Jammer
    • 0
      J_Jammer [removed]  
    • J_Jammer:

      It's funnier than SNL.

      Plus they are going off an assumption that's been proven wrong....as in she didn't make this policy it's something someone else did while she was mayor.

      But nothing I've seen that mocks her is nearly as funny as this.

    • 3 years ago
  • donkeyfly69
  • krag2112
    • 0
      krag2112  
    • J_Jammer:

      Oh I don't know Jammer. Tina Fey on SNL is pretty freaking funny too. And I thought Palin was a great reformer...why didn't she reform this? I guess it was a matter of priorities...maybe she was too busy trying to get her former brother in law fired.

    • 3 years ago
  • GatorMonkey
    • 0
      GatorMonkey  
    • J_Jammer:

      or killing moose.

      JJammer, what are you more angry about - the fact that palin is pushing McCains chance farther and farther away or the fact that the few times she actually does state something relevant she gets it wrong?

      sure biden misconstrued a few points.... but for him its kinda like 15 relevant truthful facts and 4 of them were inaccurate and palin made 4 relevant facts and none of them were accurate (im using random numbers but you get the point).

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
  • krag2112
  • dkincheloe
    • 0
      dkincheloe  

    • I love factcheck.org. I love that there are folks working hard to make sure that I get the detailed evidence. Thanks for posting this, BuddyP.

    • 3 years ago
  • krag2112
    • 0
      krag2112  

    • Great post dissimulator. In a debate performance where Governor Palin rarely cited facts, it's stunning to see how many of the few she offered were completely wrong.

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
  • krag2112
    • 0
      krag2112  
    • krag2112:

      I read it. She made like four statements that weren't vague "maverick...reformer...hockey mom...you betcha" blandishments and it turns out that most of them were flat wrong. When you don't deliver many facts, you should be expected to get them right. Light on facts and light on the truth. Not a winning combination.

      I guess that's why Biden won the debate.

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
    • 0
      J_Jammer [removed]  
    • krag2112:

      It doesn't matter who won.

      He lied too. That's what matters. You're excusing his lies and bashing her for hers. There's no difference between liars. None. If you lie and someone else lies...you're both liars.

      Unless, of course, you like one more than the other then you show favoritism. Oops.

      He had everything to lose and NOTHING to gain.

      She had nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

      The fact that people can't say anything about how she spoke means she won what she needed to...since that's the only thing in question when she was in the interviews. It wasn't facts it was how she spoke.

      But now facts matter.

    • 3 years ago
  • krag2112
    • 0
      krag2112  
    • krag2112:

      First, I didn't excuse anything. The point I was making, and you seemed to miss, is that Palin made very few actual statements that were specific and tangible. And most of those were completely wrong. Joe Biden made many specific and tangible statements, nobody questions that he was much, much more detailed. And maybe some of his facts can also be challenged, and where he was wrong it should be pointed out.

      Now I'm sure you'd like to lump them both together as being wrong (or liars as you called them), but that's just not how it works. And the polls are proving this out. Biden is polling as the winner amongst likely voters and the undecided. Given the fact that your candidate is on the losing side of those numbers, I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you don't think it matters much.

      As for your other statement, facts always matter. They matter when you stumble through an interview and they matter when you've memorized some stock answers in a debate (despite the questions from the moderator). And they matter for both candidates. That's why you have to take a deeper look at what they got wrong and why.

    • 3 years ago
  • J_Jammer
    • 0
      J_Jammer [removed]  
    • krag2112:

      Apparently they do not matter for both. You ignored Biden's mistakes to focus on who you don't like. Don't BS me with you see his...you need to state them if you're really mad at mistakes.

      Otherwise you're just a joke looking only at one side.

      And for the FACT record, I don't have a canadate. I just don't like bullies like you. So I'll take the side of the one that doesn't have someone standing up for them...be it McCain and Palin or Obama and Biden.

    • 3 years ago
  • ChristmasAsen
  • krag2112
    • 0
      krag2112  
    • krag2112:

      Come on J_J. You can pretend to be the white knight if you want, but I've seen your posts and I have a pretty good idea where you stand. Once again you've ignored the point I've made, I guess that must mean you don't have an answer for it.

    • 3 years ago
  • dissimulator
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