High Speed Rail | June 23, 2008 | 63 comments

Pledge to vote for High Speed Rail in California!

source: http://www.calhighspeedrail.org/home

jade_azul16
Vote YES on the California High Speed Rail Bond Measure in the November general election!
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    High Speed Rail
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    California,  San Francisco,  Los Angeles,  Transportation,  8 more
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63 comments // Pledge to vote for High Speed Rail in California! // Video

  • HJardonn
    • 0
      HJardonn  

    • I'm going to have to vote against this in November. Please see the following article:
      http://venturebeat.com/2008/04/11/why-the-california-high-speed-rail-plan-is-fun...

      Some arguments carry more weight than others.

      A strong argument is cost. Right now the official estimate is $40 BILLION. But of course we all no that all large infrastructure projects like the Big Dig, new Bay Bridge, MIA's North Terminal, will always go over budget. It's part of the plan for, once the project is started government says "in for a penny, in for a pound" and pays the overruns.

      note that the author is from Menlo Park, a city full of NIMBYs. Normally I'd take such article with a grain of salt, but Martin Engel makes some good points.

      Another problem is the route on both ends. Rather than go directly from LA to Bakersfield over the I-5/Grapevine route, for political reasons the planners routed the thing via the Antelope Vally to serve Palmdale and Lancaster. On the North end, they opted for Pacheco instead of Altamont. Why is that flawed? See this map:
      http://trainblog.com/2007/10/follow-the-people-follow-the-lights/

      Going vis pacheco [the blue line] means that a future Sacramento extension will cost much more. [see cost overrun discussion above]

      Finally, anybody who buys those promises of $55 SF-LA tickets hasn't checked rail fares on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor between Boston, NY and DC. Those fares are in the triple digits. No reason not to believe the CAHSR fares won't be at the same level or higher, unless you subsidize it big time.

      I can't support CA HSR as presented in this plan.

    • 3 years ago
  • taopagan
    • 0
      taopagan  

    • There are many sources of funding for different modes of transportation. But these figures do shed some light on our apparent priorities as a nation.

      U.S. Department of Transportation Funding, 2002:

      $32,300,000,000 54% Highways
      $14,000,000,000 23% Aviation/ airports
      $ 5,000,000,000 8.3% Mass transit
      $ 4,000,000,000 6.6% Maritime
      $ 521,000,000 -1% Amtrak
      $60,000,000,000 TOTAL USDOT BUDGET

      ...the % figure refers to the percentage of the TOTAL USDOT BUDGET for 2002.

    • 3 years ago
  • allgoode21
    • 0
      allgoode21  

    • siiigghh, if only we were going to see this working before 2020 or something (i do not know the exact estimate... but i'm sure its far...)

    • 3 years ago
  • tomofnorthcal
    • 0
      tomofnorthcal  

    • It is a good idea, BUT follow the money! Funding, long term ownership, and long term care...?
      It is funded by public and private sources, thus some company is going to make money off our taxes which is a form of corporate welfare! Will citizens be allowed to work on it? Will they farm it out to foreign workers to build it? After it is built, is the California Gov going to sell it off completely? Will it become fully private? Or will it become a separate non-profit org? If any republicans or rich conservative Dems get their hands on it, it may become another outsourced gov project like the Iraqi War and Katrina. Just a warning, it may not happen.

      Remember, billions of your dollars will make this thing, which means billions of your dollars will not go to help the poor, will not go to education, will not pay off debt, and the like.Thus, you have to raise taxes on the rich to pay for it all, otherwise the middle class and working poor wiil do it. Can anyone say "10% sales tax"?

    • 3 years ago
  • Leonidis
  • ILiveonaClock
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • There it goes another story about some people resolving the life of other people without asking before what are their views about it. I very like California to have trains everywhere but before money or profits I am thinking first on the health and life of the inhabitants of these regions. What are their opinions about it? Second, Are we getting the best Technology that is safe, clean and without noise? lastly, How Cal is going to pay for it?

    • 3 years ago
  • donkeyfly69
  • clayjj05
  • MornRail
  • Hawkmang
  • sephig
    • 0
      sephig  

    • I don't mind public transportation as long as its paid for by the state and the users of the system but we all no that california is bankrupt and has to suck off the rest of the nation already. It would be great if they could afford it and lower polution but I just think that it will fail to produce enough revenue to support itself without additional state and federal funding.

    • 3 years ago
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  

    • I for one say that if Hong Kong can do it, so can California. There ain't nothing that California can not do.

      California is the in the top 6 or 7 economies in the world. It could be a powerhouse economic power globally if it so chose to detach from the rest of the United States.

      If the California Rail system could earn five dollars per passenger in net profit per ride and their were a half a million passengers per day per year, that would reach their goal.

      A high speed rail system spanning the state would probably serve millions of people. Surely they could reach their goal of a billion in profit a year.

    • 3 years ago
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  
    • Image

    • Check out the story of one of the most profitable rail systems in the world; the MTR. Hong Kong's metro rail system connects all the vital parts of the region and has undergone several expansions since its inception during the Arab oil embargo of the Carter era.

      This rail system has become so profitable that it has been opened up to privatization and mergers with privately held entities.

      Excerpt from Wiki Article on MTR Privatization...

      On 2000-10-05 the operator of the MTR network, MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL), became Hong Kong's first privatised rail and metro company, marking the beginning of the Hong Kong government's planned initiative to wind down its interests in various public utilities. Prior to its listing on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, the Mass Transit Railway Corporation (MTRC) was wholly owned by the Hong Kong Government. The offering involved the sale of around one billion shares, and the company now has the largest shareholder base of any company listed in Hong Kong. In June 2001, MTRCL was transferred to the Hang Seng Index.

      MTRCL has always been reliant on developing properties next to railway stations for its profits to complement its already profitable rail lines. Many recently built stations are incorporated into large housing estates or shopping complexes. Examples can be seen at Tsing Yi station, which is built next to the Maritime Square shopping centre, and directly underneath the Tierra Verde housing estate.

      On 2006-04-11, MTRCL signed a non-binding Memorandum of Understanding with the Hong Kong Government, the owner of KCRC, to merge the operation of the two railway networks of Hong Kong.[17][18] The merger proposal has been approved by the minority shareholders of the Corporation in an Extraordinary General Meeting held on 9 October 2007, allowing MTRCL to take over the operation of the KCR network and combine the fare system of the two networks on 2 December 2007.[19][20]

      After the merger, the MTR network included three more lines, East Rail Line, West Rail Line and Ma On Shan Line, together with the Light Rail network.

    • 3 years ago
  • VoyagerFilms
  • Marilynn_Murray
  • jubal
    • 0
      jubal  

    • I am totally for this system, and I hope it runs through Oregon and all the way up to British Columbia.

      This is very exciting to me.

    • 3 years ago
  • Adumbration
  • Allsunday
  • Marilynn_Murray
    • 0
      Marilynn_Murray  
    • Adumbration:

      You live in Santa Cruz, If it came through there you might get confused and think you died and went to heaven. If it goes through some place like Modesto that won't be a problem. You can't have it all. Work for a BART like hook up.

    • 3 years ago
  • allgoode21
    • 0
      allgoode21  
    • Adumbration:

      in addition, Santa Cruz is really not that far from San Jose, and there's a decent bus service between the two, which doesn't require more investment, building new transit corridors through the Santa Cruz mountains, and are actually more efficient per passenger mile (when filled) than rail.

    • 3 years ago
  • PlatoTacius
    • 0
      PlatoTacius  

    • The high-speed mass transit idea has been talked about for many years now. It would solve a lot of the problems, not only of polutants in the air, but of things like auto insurance and maintenance costs, etc. In reality, there should be high-speed mass transit in every state, by now, then 'big oil' and the auto industry wouldn't have the foothhold on society, like they do...

      This is America, but look at what's been done to us over the last 60 years, or since WWII...

      It seems the invisiblle hand of control is tightening around our throats, lately...we, badly, need this sort of change...

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • San Francisco has not proved itself to handle well their own internal affairs on transportation. We should have subways transport to everywhere in our neighborhoods by now or near future. No one is talking about that or presenting such a project. How can they assure us they will be handling this project well. Please do a complete research on the subject and do not buy yourself into a hype presentation. Compare other projects from Japan and Germany of similar size. Ask how they did the EIRR first before making up your mind.

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      ...This is not a San Francisco project. It's a state-wide project. The only one who seems to have not done research on this is you, Stopnoise. The EIRR has been very well received across the board, by everyone from politicians to grass-roots organizations. But you probably don't care because you seem determined to hate this project, no matter how well-organized and environmentally sound.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • stopnoise:

      Allsunday, Again, you have not read what I wrote!
      There are nothing on my written words that says that I "hate" anything. In regards to your generation, you're are right, that is a generalization and I'll take that back even thou some people of your age has done nothing to stop acoustic pollution in our City. Besides you do not get it because you're totally bias into it. This project it is a State project but many of its initiators and agencies are from the City of San Francisco Political landscape that also participated in the development of our messy transportation. My point is that: "If you cannot do a good job at home, how can you do a good job out there." The only thing that I ask is for the general population to exercise its "caution" and read careful between the lines. You see I am not going to be directed affected by this project as I do not live on its borderlines but I am concerned with the people that will be affected by its development. I want to hear from these people first and reasoning on their thoughts and concerns.

    • 3 years ago
  • Marilynn_Murray
    • 0
      Marilynn_Murray  

    • Great Post Jade. I love the idea. I want it to run up to Canada though. I can imagine high speed rail all over the country. Wouldn't that be absolutely wonderful? I dream of high speed rail and a huge wind, solar project going in too. We can do it too. This is why I love this country, and am REALLY proud of America.

    • 3 years ago
  • MornRail
    • 0
      MornRail  
    • Image

    • You're correct Allsunday. It is insanely thought out as California High Speed Rail Authority has been planning high-speed rail for almost a decade. Also, issues like these have already been brought up in a conversation I had with stopnoise in a past article.

      So I'll just copy and paste:
      Recent advances have led to aerodynamic designs to reduce drag, lift, and noise. And that's what it's about: advances. I'm sure that once the ball gets rolling, the outstanding technology of Japan coupled with the brainiacs we have here in the US can lead to some amazing results in a new era of transportation.

      Consider the 447 page research "Noise and Vibration from High-speed Trains" by Victor Krylov, a member of the UK Institute of Acoustics Research Coordination Committee. His expertise lies in physical acoustics and its applications to engineering problems.
      Consider conferences on noise rail control here: http://www.uic.asso.fr/environnement/article.php3?id_article=56

      So with that all said, I'm hoping big time for this project to happen. It's too bad that I live in San Antonio where all that's been done is talk. However, seeing it being done in a large state like that of Texas, we can hopefully jump on the bandwagon. Lots of study has been done on this and other countries are well ahead of us in this technology. It'll be great to see it so close to home.

      And a big thanks for posting this Jade!

    • 3 years ago
  • crob80227
    • 0
      crob80227  

    • Sooner or later we're going to have to upgrade our rail systems across the country. This seems like a step in the right direction.

      I was listening to NPR the other day and they were talking about how many TONS of merchandise can be moved across country per gallon of fuel compared to using old-fashioned semi-trucks -- and, boy, It is soooo much more fuel efficent to use rails instead of gas guzzling trucks but for some reason no one in Congress want to invest any money in it.

      Make syou wonder how decisions get made at that level -- do they really understand the benefits? Are they just listening to trucking lobbyists and no one else? Do they even care? Makes ya wonder.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • Japan and Germany have the best technology for trains as they are far ahead of us. Wouldn't be wise to consult with them if we are getting the best technology and best project for the best cost instead rush in?

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      Where in the world did you get the impression that we're rushing into this? Or that our trains will be much different than the ones in Japan or Germany? We've been doing studies on this for years, and it's insanely well thought out.

    • 3 years ago
  • crob80227
    • 0
      crob80227  
    • stopnoise:

      I think we have all the data we need to make an excellent rail system -- we just don't have the political interest. There are "sexier" projects that politicans want to get behind because every single year is a re-election year! I think the footdragging that occurs when it comes to rail technology in the US is because it's just not a cool photo-op and the public which has grown up with little contact with the rail system is totally indifferent. Germans love trains and support them, but here in the US you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE whose ever ridden in one so there's no public interest.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  
    • stopnoise:

      I cannot see the reply button on this page, so I am just blindly hit somewhere hoping I am replying ok.

      Allsunday, I have no idea how long you live in San Francisco or where do you live but I can certainly say you have not gone to the City Hall chambers to see how complicated it is to change a City Transportation mistake.
      These people cannot be trusted! We all better read in between the lines of this project and not jump into the hype of it. You also do not know how many people were affected by their past policies. You also do not know how many people were ignored when they complained about their acoustic mistakes. Once you give power to these people you are practically handling your life in their hands.

      Your comments are somewhat irresponsible towards human life or living. You never have to live with a beep signal or a voice signal in your head all day long and through the night. That is not all! There are motor noise, electrical magnetic field noise, air compression noise and so forth. You can watch that in some of my movies. Stop thinking in yourself alone and start to think in others for a change!

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      Crob - I agree. However, I think there's a lot more public interest in California than in most other states. And hopefully once ours is up and running, it'll serve as a good example to the rest of the country. :)

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
  • fuckbush
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • I am not against Transportation that is safe and clean. I am just against the way they are developing some parts of this project. They way I see in the video with a train riding at 200mpm through a open farm field it is a crazy idea!

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      Why is that crazy? It's no different from the high-speed railways they have in places like France and Japan. And in case you were wondering, this kind of train isn't all that noisy.

    • 3 years ago
  • stopnoise
  • Allsunday
    • 0
      Allsunday  
    • stopnoise:

      I don't know where you get off making grand generalizations about my entire generation based on my very simple comments, but then you seem to be making sweeping generalizations about many things based on mere assumptions. What is it about this project that shows any kind of disrespect for human life? The reduction in smog and greenhouse gases? The new ramp crossings that will reduce train/car collisions? By all means, explain what the problem is. But before you do, try actually reading the documentation: http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/library/default.aspx

    • 3 years ago
  • shroomfairy
    • 0
      shroomfairy  

    • High speed rail has been talked abut in Georgia for a long time. It's needed from Atlanta to Chattanooga, to Macon,maybe Athens too. Many people including my husband drive an hour or more to work in Atlanta each day. High speed rail would benefit many here.

    • 3 years ago
  • jade_azul16
  • JanforGore
    • 0
      JanforGore  

    • Also stopnoise, will it be economically impactful based on the cost? How many trees will be felled to make way for track and yes, what other habitats would be effected? As you stated more information is needed, though it is good to see such an initiative. Would love to see one in my state as well with that criteria met.

    • 3 years ago
  • Dmitri_Molotov
  • stopnoise
    • 0
      stopnoise  

    • I cannot pledge a vote on a project that is missing many parts. We should demand them to present the project with all its parts as:

      1. What type of technology this train will have?
      2. What type of corridor this train will be running through?
      3. Where is the environment impact review report EIRR?
      a. Noise
      b. Landscape
      c. Energy
      d. Technology
      e. Habitats and Human Impact
      4. What will be the cost for construction and for the Communities?

      Let us not make the same mistakes of the past!
      From evidences I can tell you that San Francisco Transportation Agencies, besides being a totalitarian entity, have NO responsibility towards human lives outside of their corridor of transit. You better think about before jumping in!!!

    • 3 years ago
  • Allsunday
  • jade_azul16
  • Allsunday
  • somefamilylove
  • donkeyfly69
  • Chique
    • 0
      Chique  

    • digitrash - Because I don't live there and was curious how one would affect the other. Why do you ask?

      Thanks Jade and dndobson. I visited there right after the overpasses fell years ago and the only time I've been in California. Seeing that stuck vividly in my mind. I live in Florida where nature has other hat tricks for us.

    • 3 years ago
  • phoenix_fire999
  • digitrash
    • 0
      digitrash  

    • California, we have our faults... but that didn't stop us from building (and rebuilding, and rebuilding again) our freeways which cross the same faults. What's your point in bringing that up Chique?

    • 3 years ago
  • jade_azul16
  • goldenways
  • benjaminV
  • dndobson
    • 0
      dndobson  
    • Image

    • Chique--

      The San Andres Fault runs along the San Bernadino Mountains and then up the coastal range then off into the ocean. Millions of side faults all up and down the coastal regions. High speed rail would run from LA, up over the those Mountains, then up the central valley to who knows where - San Jose or Sacramento.

    • 3 years ago
  • devo64
    • 0
      devo64  

    • Well if I lived in Cali I would vote for this. This is what we need on a national level though. When I ride Amtrak from Seattle to Chicago it takes dame near three days. With a bullet train in place that trip could be shortened to one day tops.

    • 3 years ago
  • onechance
    • 0
      onechance  

    • We need to get away from driving so much! This seems like a great answer to long commutes, and gets us a step closer to clean energy, and would think about what it would do for LA traffic!

      Please support it-

    • 3 years ago
  • onechance
    • 0
      onechance  

    • BRILLIANT!!!!
      Who the hell would red light that? Do you work at General Motors?

      I can't wait until this PASSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • 3 years ago
  • Chique
    • 0
      Chique  

    • Jade, where does the fault line run where this is proposed? Rapid transit is an idea that we need to adopt everywhere and get some cars off the road.

    • 3 years ago
  • dndobson
  • digitrash
  • jade_azul16
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