BSL - Breed Specific Legislation - Is your dog safe?

Fantastic love this video

I implore anyone following this thread or anyone who is fighting for the rights of Pit Bull owners to listen to this. http://www.malignantpoodle.com/BSL.wma

Really this audio says it all. Anonymous and unverifiable “achievements”, “owned dogs as a child”, “had a dog, but not now”.
A clear misunderstanding of dogs and the perspective of a media shaped opinion of Pit Bull dogs & their owners. He believes Pit Bulls “bite more people”...wow...amazing.

Really thanks for sharing. Again why are you hiding? No name, no way to verify anything about you.
Why didn’t you come out with as much decorum in writing as you do in the audio? Perhaps if you’d posted without the attitude the discourse could have been more congenial.
Lastly, in another post you say that I work with Pit Bulls and their owners as though it’s a bad thing. If you are so concerned about dogs I’d think you’d want people helping owners with their dogs. I do not work with irresponsible people, I have a rigorous screening process and I do not use any methods that compromise a dog’s behavior. How is that a bad thing?
Good luck bro....

To Yob the Poodle -

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbites.htm
Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.

"This article lists the breeds involved in fatal attacks over 20 years. It does not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy-making decisions related to the topic. Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 16 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill."

Sacks JJ, Lockwood R, Hornreich J, Sattin RW. Fatal dog attacks, 1989-1994. Pediatrics 1996;97:891-5.
Details are provided on the approximately 12 annual deaths from dog attacks and data are provided on dog breeds involved in fatal attacks.

Sacks JJ, Sattin RW, Bonzo SE. Dog bite-related fatalities in the United States, 1979-1988. JAMA 1989;262:1489-92.

Provides details on the approximately 12 annual deaths from dog attacks and data on dog breeds involved in fatal attacks.
It's not my math, it's the CDC's math. So take issue with them.

Redneck that's funny, you obviously do not know me or the meaning of that term.
Until you go public with who you are, and what your credentials are to speak about dogs, you are as I stated just a YOB. Your "website" was started in Feb of this year. Your ID attached to the site is private. Why so secret about who you are?
I'm not trippin man, because I'm not making anything up. I'm not afraid of you, or anyone else. Anytime you want to do this face to face in person let me know.
You’re in Cali, right.

I do not open files from anyone who I consider suspect. If you are so passionate about this issue why are you hiding behind your computer? Put your audio file link on this board. Maybe someone else will go listen to it.

If the file is so important to make your "case" about your passion about your opinion of BSL why are you hiding it?

As I said at the start of this I'm just reporting on what I've found.
Go bother the CDC! It's their math. Go contact the people in my film. They will not even give you the time of day.
You could not get in the room with people who matter in this issue because, you are a YOB. You have a computer and an opinion. Like so many others.
I see you also take issue with the other pro Pit Bull media that has come out on Current. It's apparent that you're into attacking people. You came out of the gate with an attitude. You puff up about allot of this stuff but talk is cheap.
You say allot, but what are you doing? Step up and step out into the spot light. No more words. Be about it.

Peace.
D

As the owner of two Rottweilers with no problems to report, I find breed bans to be extremely prejudicial. BSL targets large, strong breeds and ignores small dogs that all to often bite people.

I think that most of the points above eloquently combat the "YOB" trajectory that splats into the broad side of the barn.

I'd also just like to toss this in:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/05/22/cocker-spaniel-aggressive.html

The most aggressive breed of dog is not the Pit Bull, but the English Cocker Spaniel, and the breed clubs ACKNOWLEDGE this and enclose it in their breed temperament standards in the AKC.

If you want to be outraged, be so in that people are breeding aggressive dogs on purpose and no one is doing ANYTHING about it but instead creating media hysteria over anecdotal evidence concerning innocent dogs.

Yo Drayton,
It's worth repeating - nice job on video!

Karen

Also, to "poodle" - the question "what is a pit bull" is a very good one.
Because if you think you know what a pit bull or a pit bull mix looks like - Take the test:

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dog-news/

Yo Poodle, you still have not put up anything you’ve done, do or will do. Again all I see is a YOB on a blog so far… Our rights when it comes to dogs are already in jeopardy.
I know one thing no one will be taking you seriously, so until you put up, shut up. It’s great that you play with dogs and you like them super that’s great to hear. You will be suspect as to your intent until you actually tell me who you are. What are you hiding? What’s your agenda here? Anyway man, good luck with all your vexed emotions. LOL!

The main issue I have with the pie chart is twofold. One the wording, it says pure bred pit bull type, and then below it says pure bred pit bull. “Type” is not pure bred. The other issue is that between 79 – 98 “pit bull type” dogs were the most popular dogs in the media and definitely the most popular dogs with people using those types for ill gotten gain.

So we have first an over representation in the media and we have the margins dictating and shaping the views of the majority. The 1980’s were the worst decade for the breed and anything that looked like it.

The next issue is that breed ID is not as easy as one thinks. One aspect of the CDC study that the short article highlights is that 50% of the fatalities are from unknown dogs. So we could shave off that 27% PB type slice, as surely some of those dogs just goit tagged "pit bull".
The number of times people mis identify a dog breed is astounding.
In addition there were and still are many crosses that present as Pit Bull Type dogs, however they are not pure bred. This is not semantics. In any another science domain being exact with wording and verification is expected, dogs somehow do not get that respect as often as some might think.

Then if we get into behavior of a pure bred Pit Bull dog, it’s a whole other matter. A well bred pure Pit Bull is bred intentionally to have zero aggression in the line. Pure bred Pit Bulls will have a much different temperament. Then consider the people in the dogs care are directly responsible for shaping that dogs behavior. A dogs behavior is always the result of human behavior. It is inextricably linked. If someone thinks that dogs act out of some intellectual morality they might as well believe in the tooth fairy. If someone believes that dogs are born with the intent to kill humans they are dead wrong.

Breeding and maintaining dogs is a tricky thing, and if you are already looking to do bad things it’s half way there. Despite all that the majority of dogs do not kill or harm people.

Dogs are sentient beings, people hold ALL the cards, from how they are bred to how that are trained, not trained and maintained.

I am in agreement that people should be held responsible, as well as better educated to make sure we can lessen the already low number of fatalities and injuries to humans. I’m also always educating so the number of dogs abused by people will be much less. Many times well intentioned and mis guided people, in name of training, and at shelters and rescues are really undoing dogs.

Once people grasp how dogs view the world they have a different view of them. Once you look into fatal dog incidents you see the human’s real truth associated with the dogs involved. Again the trouble is people want to accept the surface info. They do not dig, few people do. Those who do dig and find the answers are to be applauded.

I do think in the court of public opinion the majority of people do not want to see dogs hurt, or people uneducated about owning them. Everyone wants safe dogs and better educated people, that’s the goal.
Peace
D

Drayton,
Excellent video. Great interviews!

Mr. Malignant Poodle, first off what are your credentials to speak on behalf of dogs? You can verify who I am and who the people in this pod are. www.pitbullguru.com/documentary is all you need to go visit. I personally work with over 100 dogs a year. My business sees at least 300 plus dogs a year. It appears you’re just a YOB - Your Ordinary Bonehead. I’ll retract that if you give us all some legitimate credential you hold to speak on behalf of dogs, especially Pit Bull dogs.

Secondly, the CDC has renounced the report which you site as “evidence”. Thanks to another post perhaps you are now aware of this? Times change and criteria and how information is gathered changes. If you’re this passionate about the subject perhaps you should stay abreast of the changes in gathering dog bite statistics and humane approaches to dealing with that concern, also it would behoove you to get some education about legitimate dog behavior, IE: how dogs learn and view the world.

Pit Bulls and dogs in general are not “waiting for a chance to bite someone” as you so ignorantly “Think” & “Feel”. For someone so concerned about empirical facts and not emotions, you are relying on YOUR opinion and YOUR emotions in your post. Hmmm…smells like contradiction.

Last but not least, there is not one legitimate, credentialed organization that backs BSL. Furthermore I am reporting on what I have found through the research of other people. The only aspect of media I release which has my opinion is the 6 – 8% of the dog population is actual Pit Bulls. Which if you care to know more about can be found at this blog http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/advocacy-overdrive-%E2%80%93-numbers-criteria-...

The stats on dog bites were researched by Janis Bradley. You can read her paper on dog bites stats by contacting www.animalfarmfoundation.org and her book Dogs Bite But bedroom slippers and balloons are more dangerous it quiet well worth the read.

One of the main problems with dogs in the US & around world is people who are clueless about their behavior speaking on their behalf. You sir appear to be in that segment of society.

In 2008 23 people were killed by dog bites in the USA. The CDC has issued the statistical likelihood of being bitten by a dog as 0.0002%. Go to their website and look it up if you are able to navigate the site, and not get bogged down in what YOU want to extract and use to back YOUR opinion.
Just because YOU are afraid of dogs, just because YOU do not like Pit Bulls, does not make them dangerous. That is all YOUR emotion and feelings. So I suggest if you really want to come off as some sort of knowledgeable person like you know something perhaps you should stick to ignorance as that seems to be what you’re best at.

You can change if you want man, it just takes letting go of your fear, your ego and all that emotion you site as some form of knowledge.

Thanks AnotherJust Me!

Peace
Drayton Michaels CTC www.pitbullguru.com

Hey everyone

Hector has just earned his TT
http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

He can now proudly add that to his
CGC
http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/program.cfm

and his TDI
http://www.tdi-dog.org/HowToJoin.aspx?Page=Testing+Requirements

Who is Hector?
He was once described as one of the most "vicious" dogs in America.
He`s one of the dogs rescued from Michael Vick and he`s owned by the Yori family who also own Wallace the National Champion Disc dog who is seen in this video.

Congrats to Hector and his family.

Excellent Video.

So many problems with this pod where to begin...

First of all, bear in mind that there is a difference between fact and opinion. This pod only presents opinion presented by pit advocates. They say things like, "the dog is loyal" or "they're loving" and things like this. This has no bearing on truth. Try to understand that the argument FOR pits has not been empirically backed in this pod.

Now on to the specific mistakes people in this video make.

1. The statistic "There is a 1 in 25 million chance of being bitten by any dog"
Factually incorrect. The CDC statistics are on dog bite related fatalities, not dog bites. They have 238 documented fatalities. Out of a population of 300,000,000, this means your chances of being KILLED by a dog attack are 1 in 1.2 million. This doesn't count bites that don't result in fatality which is FAR greater. The statistic presented in this pod is factually incorrect at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.
source; CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

You do realize that if the statistic in this video was accurate, that there would be only 12 people in the entire US right now that have ever been bitten by a dog? I've been bitten twice and don't even own a dog. So there are only 11 other people out there? Come on.
Furthermore, this statistic is presented in the same shot that says the CDC estimates 16 fatalities a year. This would have to mean that there would have to be 400,000,000 (there isn't) in the US and that every dog bite (16) resulted in a fatality for these statistics to all be true.

Next, the people that are saying there is "no evidence" are either ignorant or lying. There is most certainly evidence. Pits account for only 10% of the dog population but account for 75% of bites. Refer to the CDC link. There is evidence. These people need to debate the evidence or offer their own evidence to counter it, not just say, "there is no evidence" (because there is) and not just back up their story by sharing warm experiences with the breed.

Third, the argument that parents kill more people than dogs is completely non-sequitur. It would be a violation of human rights to remove parents from their children that have otherwise done no wrong simply because they "might" do something. This isn't the case with dogs. If we're really going to compare the validity of parental relations with that of dogs, someone needs a reality check.

I can draw the same non-sensical comparisons. For example; more people are killed by dog attacks than mid-air aircraft collisions. This is precisely why we should be more concerned about BSL enactment and less about the integrity of air traffic. You see how ridiculous that is?
These are the hallmarks of an emotional argument, not an empirical one.

Last, testimony is not evidence. Pictures of pits being playful is not evidence. My wife grew up with a mountain lion in her house chained up in the garage. I have pictures of her as a child playing with a mountain lion. Does this show that mountain lions really have a good temperament? No.

A picture of a pit by a child is only evidence that pits (or dogs in general) do not attack people every chance they get. If someone believes that a pit will reliably attack a human every time it's close to one, then yes, pictures of playful pits is evidence against that. Pictures are not however, evidence against a disproportionate number of bites from a statistical standpoint.

If you want to advocate the breed, bring evidence to the table. Otherwise the position is one of faith, and is not scientific. I for one have no tolerance for faith dictating the rules of the society I live in.

Hey Jamie Bionic
The trouble with lying is that if you get caught or the ins agent feels like they are some kind of "expert" with dogs and you get caught or somehow they find out, the perosn loses their insurance.
Funny you metion trampolines, more people, especially kids get seriously injured in back yard accidents involving swingsets etc...than dogs each year. Yet I've never heard of swingsets being a cause for losing insurance, or refusing insurance.
Don't lie about your dog's breed, find an insurance company that does not prejudice against dogs.
Write to the state legislators, AT Gen etc...and tell them that dogs and their owners have rights! Be a responsible owner that educates the community. Get involved by making your dog an example of your responsible ownership practices.

Insurance companies consider every negative incident a higher risk. Everyone else pays for it monetarily because insurance is based on the group as a whole. A trampoline on the property can just as easily keep you from getting apporved for homeowner's insurance as a banned/restricted breed. Canine good citizen accomlishments are not considered when getting homeowner's insurance in many states. If that's the case in your state, just don't tell your insurance co you own a pit, but a "something" mix. Make sure that 2nd breed isn't banned as well.

Thanks for getting this info out there! Well done!

K-9 SON....That was an amazing pod. The public has to informed about this. More children are killed by their parents than pit bulls or dogs in general. Brilliant.

The following list was populated by this website - http://www.povn.com/urdog/july302006%20bsl%20in%20the%20usa.pdf
This is a list of "dangerous dogs" according to some states, insurance companies and housing authorities http://www.povn.com/urdog/banned%20breeds.html

Actually the dogs had to be "handler" friendly as the "handers" would have to put their hands down the dogs throats to pull out flesh and hair so the FIGHT would not be hampered by a dog choking. ONE of the reasons for "picking these dogs" was because they were one of the least likely dogs to TURN on their cowardly handlers/owners.

Breed Specific Legislation is a terrible idea. Many innocent dogs and families are being harmed by these laws. The law should not harm the innocent, but should punish those few people that engage in horrible acts such as dog fighting. Instead of BSL, the punishment for breaking laws against dog fighting and animal cruelty should be heightened.

All pit bulls are not vicious dogs. In fact, most are very friendly and loving animals. If you mistreat any animal or train them to fight they will be vicious. It just happens that the dog fighters have chosen this breed. The entire breed should not become extinct because of the actions of a few bad people.

In addition, one problem with the BSL as it is is that there is no legal definition for a pit bull. Many mixed breed dogs may look similar to a pit bull could be held out to be pit bulls even if they do not have any pit bull in them! These laws are terrible and must be stopped.

BSL is unfair to dogs and dog owners!!
I own a Beagle, a Pitbull, a Lab,(3) English Coonhounds,(1) Treeing Walker Coonhound
BEWARE
The Beagle may Bite !!!!
And 2 out of my 3 CATS may Also!!
" COME NEAR or Try to PET AT YOUR OWN RISK"

The most recent dog bite study out of Colorado had golden retrievers as the Number ONE biter. Maybe because it is the most currently popular dog?

Breed bans do NOT work and have NOT worked. Owner responsibilty and ACCOUNTABILITY is the answer.

Netherland removed their ban after 25 years of documented evidence. Italy at 92 banned and/or restricted dogs has removed theirs. WHY is America so far behind reality? Stupid knee jerk politians reacting to media hype instead of ensuring wise, intelligent legislation.

There was a time in my life where the media had me totally freaked out about pitbulls until one day we rescued an abondened puppy from the street not realizing until we took her to the vet that she was a pitbull. But thankfully our vet told us about the true nature of the type of dog. She now shares our home with us and our four other rescues of different breeds and she is by far the most docile. Not to mention loving and playfull.
I'm always happy when we have new guests in our home who, like me were afraid of pitbulls but when they see how gentil and sweet she is they leave with a whole new outlook on this ban.

Important info to counter the media hype. BSL doesn't work and is misguided. I am all for education to improve both the lives of dogs and people's understanding of how they operate.

Anyone who loves dogs should be against BSL.

Pitties are a wonderful breed of dog. I love my guys and would be outraged if someone tried to hurt them simply because of misinformation and prejudice.

Where does this BSL madness END???