'Recycle or go to hell!' warns the Vatican

Everyone has their own oppinion on this, that is fine but have we not realised that because we are talking about religion it causes a lot of hate and arguments will then errupt.
that is what is going on and not many realise it.
now im not saying that my oppinion on religion is rite (but im an athiest) and i beleive that this beleif is rong... all it is, is money and whilest people suffer vaticans are wealthy. and i thought "GREED" was one of the deadly sins!! but i mite be mistaken.

i have to agree with teddy14.....RIGHT ON ....shoot.....if there really is a hell ,then whos going to tell them....their going to this... so called "hell" with a first class ticket? It was all made up to begin with.

nyingma13, I partially agree. I wouldn't delcare that anyone who enters into a power structure falls under this category. There are those who do not waiver in faith.

My objections to organised religion are not confined only to the Vatican and Catholics, although I do find much of their dogma to be particularly onerous. From the Council of Nicea to the present day, the people who hold the postitions of power in the Catholic, religious organisation have more interest in maintaining their numbers and the money and power that goes with it, than they do in the spiritual enlightenment of their acolates. The same holds true for Protestant, Methodist, Episcopalian, Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim officials (just to name the most obvious). They have-all of them-strayed far from the path set down by the person upon whose teachings their religions are based. That is not to say that there aren't people who adhere to those religions that aren't interested in the advancement of humankind; that would be a patently ridiculous generalisation. What I am maintaining is that by the time anyone advances to the power structure in the central governing body of any organised religion, that person becomes more interested in the organisation and its continuation than in the welfare of its members.

But the Vatican is obscenely wealthy...

Excuse me?

Your question of mass murder fails to encompass the severity of the subject itself. Your question should not single out a corrupt leader within religious walls. It should include those who are/have not invoked God as well such as Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong-il, Gengis Kahn, Saddam Hussien, and the list goes on.

Blaming an entire religion for the injustices that only one or a few have commited is injust in itself. Corruption and the atrocities typically associated with such are not the systems fault. The fault lies with the one who is commiting the atrocities and the one who has the power to stop the atrocities but does nothing. This tends to be the same person in many cases.

Let me ask you this, are you willing to suffer the consequences for our current president's atrocities? This is akin to blaming organized religion for one leader's corruption.

I don't think it is irresponsible at all. How many in our world over all of these centuries have died in the name of God?

I am aware of the corruption that emerges when a person is not mature enough for the power they are given. However, making an absolute statement that implies that all organized religion and all the leaders of such are taking advantage of an individual's spiritual weakness, is untrue.

I would not disagree that there are people in power who are corrupt and take advantage of others. However, the underlying teachings of most religious systems have value beyond what any mortal man is capable of delivering even if it's gift-wrapped in illusion and deceit.

It is my view that those people who are given the opportunity to understand religion rarely do so because they typically cannot cope with the sacrifice and necessary submission that the system requires. Alternatively, anyone who is forced to believe in a certain religion typically resents the religion itself instead of the corrupt individual who forced the system upon them.

Ultimately, it is the self that prevents us from ever attaining some form of spiritual advancement, not anyone else. I think it's irresponsible to blame organized religion for one person's corrupt actions (as in a religious leader) or for one's own inability to understand the system (as many often do, including me at one time).

And that is why I tend to look down on organized religion whose leaders should be inspiring people to be able to do that themselves instead of taking advantage of that spiritual weakness. Organized religion has also become too corporatized of late and too involved with politics. It is not what it once was and actually, as one who believes that Christians have been lied to about the life of Christ by the church as a whole since the Council of Nicea, I don't really hold organized religion in a very good light. They would dismiss the humanity of Christ because his perceived divinity gives them power. But yes, in all fairness, for those for whom it brings them spiritual peace, more power to them ( pardon the pun.)

JanforGore, exactly, I agree whole-heartedly.

Unfortunately, not everyone who wishes to worship a higher power has the spiritual, mental, or physical capacity to do it on their own. Thus, people who think about spiritual trancendence on a daily basis likely have a better understanding of how to accomplish this trancendence than the average Joe. This is why we have religion.

Yes, if you can do it yourself and do it with genuine sincerity then you are obviously worhty of enlightenment and I encourage you to do so. But for those who don't have the time, conviction, or ability to do this there is organized religion or nothing at all, their choice.

Thank you Jan.

Pfestler "If you are going to continue acting immature then I will no longer respond to you. If you'd like to have a mature and fair debate about a specific issue then I will glady respond." I'm going to continue!

I believe that true salvation does not come merely from worshipping Jesus Christ, but in souls learning to free themselves from the material world through the revelation of the knowledge that comes from within rather than without. And I believe we all have that knowledge within us if we dare look to find it. I tend to believe more in a Gnostic view, and in the view that we are all equal and therefore, no church hierarchy of mortal men is any better to lay down spiritual laws that must be adhered to in order to reach that salvation. In other words, no mortal man has any power over the transcendence of my soul. That is up to me and between me and the higher power I believe in, and I don't need any intermediaries to get me to that salvation that is already mine through my own enlightenment. And actually, through Gnostic gospels found in Egypt in 1945 it was revealed that that was the true message of Christ. Not having us allowing mortals to hold our souls hostage for gold.

Marilynn_Murray, no, you did not give back what I gave.

I gave a well thought out comment about how I believe we can make beneficial changes. You did not.

I have not assumed anything about you. I have deduced things about you from the language you have used in your posts. There is a difference.

Your previous posts about calling the Pope a mean old jerk and telling everyone that "Organized religion is not what God had in mind" prove to me that a mature debate with you is improbable.

If you are going to continue acting immature then I will no longer respond to you. If you'd like to have a mature and fair debate about a specific issue then I will glady respond.

Pfestler, I just gave you back what you gave everyone on this page. Don't assume anything about me, I'm not the one that decided I should tell everyone how to behave, you did.

Marilynn_Murray, everyone's opinion should count if it's intelligent and mature. It would seem you have misread my post in its entirety because I did not convey that "only my opinions count" or that "Current.com is going to hell." You have quite an imagination, unfortunately, your reading skills do not seem up to par.

In light of your misreading, let me clarify. The point is to work together and be tolerant of others. If you don't think this is a good idea please tell me your opinion. I for one believe that working together is the only way we will solve our problems and live in peace; but by all means, please tell me what you think is better.

Pfestler, So only your opinions count? If someone has an opinion different from yours Current is going to hell? Guess again closed-minded obnoxious fool.

I'm amazed at how many people are just unwilling to understand or perhaps are just ignorant to the purpose and reason for practicing spiritual convictions. Whether the laws are from the Pope, Buddha, or your mother and father it doesn't matter. What matters is that there is a reason for such and our inability to understand why we should follow these rules does not justify bashing, insulting, and attacking those who are trying to help.

I understand we are not a static society. We are dynamic and continue to change but unless it's beneficial change, progress will never emerge. If we want things to change for the better, cut the shit and work TOGETHER. We need to stop attacking other groups for what we think is stupid because we're just as stupid as everyone else.

Start understanding life and give a little. We are all in this together and we aren't going to fix anything unless we understand each others differences and work together. If we cannot work with others or if we're unwilling to understand all sides of an issue then we shouldn't get involved. Instead, go wallow in self-pity somewhere far from the issues that matter.

Current.com seems to be gaining more and more immature comments. I really hope this site isn't becoming another place for the closed-minded obnoxious fools who think their opinion is all that matters.

Have they not realised that everything is rong... all through these people's lives they are lead to beleive that god is the most powerful being and if you do anything then you will suffer in hell. sex before marriage "SUFFER IN HELL" not having a proper wedding in the holly house of god "ITS A SIN, YOUR NOT PROPERLY MARRIED" its a load of bum!! that is what i think all religion does is cause problems and if we dont realise it soon, then i dont know what is going to happen to the children in the future. they will become zombies controled by people above them thinking that god is everything... when in actuall fact he isnt!!

It isn't just the Pope telling people what to do and holding a money grubbing hand out to poor people. Take a good long at these crazy Protestant preachers with their multimillion dollar monuments to peoples guilty consciences. Do you think the guy wearing the Rolex worries about whether your kids have enough to eat as long as you donate. Organized religion is not what God had in mind.

I think it should be a sin for otherwise intelligent people to let some guy in a dress dictate how they should lead their lives based on medieval rules set down by a bunch of money grubbing, power hungry men over 1700 years ago, and it should be a sin for some putz who lives in unimaginable wealth collected from the poor and ignorant the world over to try and tell those people how they need to live their lives. It's like GW trying to tell the average American how they need to live their lives when he doesn't even know what a barcode is, or that the price of gas has risen to $4; neither he nor the pope have the slightest idea what it's like to try and eke out a living in today's world. Coming from the ivory towers they do, they are both irrelevant.

The Popester lost me when he started looking for gays in the church. Who does he expect to find there? He is a mean old jerk.

I don't need a Pope or any religious figure to tell me how to respect this planet. And gee, what if you are an atheist and an environmentalist? Will the Pope be able to get you a get out of hell free card? What rhetoric. And really.... Becoming obscenely wealthy? He writes this as he sits in golden robes and hats surrounded by ornate cathedrals?

Unfortuneatly the Roman Catholic church is design to be conservative yet adaptive at a slow pace in order to be a bench mark for values and morals, which leads to the the continued trans-historic repetition of the church cutting its your nose to spite its face scenario, which becomes a double edge sword for the church. Because ironically the church seems out of touch when it is trying to bring witness to bear that it is in touch...So can i get an Amen and a Hallehlullah for the vicar of christ in the front row doin his thang. Isn't it a shame that you have to go through all these changes to practice love.

Just kidding! or maybe not!

Maybe I should start recycling now before I go to hell ;(

when it comes to deciding what are sins and what aren't the vatican has no real say in who goes to hell and for what.

sorry pope, but you just a mortal man and no more holy than the rest of us.

hehehe finally religion serving it's true purpose.... :P

what is so dumb about this??

i don't think it is.

the vatican is just taking action and trying to solve contemporary problems....

YOU THINK IT'S DUMB BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE UP?

well, sorry to ruin it 4 ya, but the previous ones were made up too, and they all have their roots in practicality..(among other stuff...)

oh teddy, you beat me there. this is possibly the dumbest thing i ever read(not you abby, the list thing itself)

"Causing social injustice
Becoming obscenely wealthy "

by its own definition the catholic church is clearly going to hell.

associating a son with the almighty God is also a good one