Unemployment, Debt: How will we dig ourselves out? - Real Recovery

It's a problem because the Federal Debt is approaching its largest since WWII.

A catastrophic crisis of confidence would destroy this government. And while government spending is the right option, the inflating debt will create an interest payment that literally will become impossible to pay while providing government services.

Personally, I think the solution is the elimination of the Fed period or the Federal Government taking backs its right to issue currency.

Why the hell are we paying -interest- on our own programs? It's insane, the money just gets printed anyway.

Can you please demonstrate how it is unsustainable?

It's simple, the government currently pays nearly $400 billion dollars a year just to pay the INTEREST on the national debt.

On top of that, we're running huge deficits, which means we're not making inroads into paying this shit off. Which means that number is only going to get larger.

In fact, with the coming Social Security and Medicare crises, government would need to bring in a TON of additional revenue to be able to pay for all the services it wants to provide.

This is what Clinton created the surplus for, to deal with this hump in spending on baby boomers for Social Security and Medicare.

But those days are long gone now, now we're funding two costly wars and a military establishment the likes of which haven't been seen since Vietnam or WWII. We've lowered taxes across the board now with the centrist compromise we elected in Obama. And no end is in sight. Obama plans to try and deal with budget next year, but I'm not seeing how he can do so without majorly cutting services.

The problem with our debt is that if people decide the U.S. too fucked up and decide to stop lending, everything crashes to the ground.

This is partially why the banks got a bailout, they have us by the balls because they can facilitate a collapse if they don't get their way. With all their major investments overseas, it's not like they give a shit.

I guess what I should ask, what part of this system IS sustainable? Do you think we can last another 30 years running debts like this? How much debt do you think we can handle? 20 trillion? 30? 40? The interest on a debt that big would EXCEED the fiscal plan for an ENTIRE YEAR.

I totally agree that depression spending is a great way to get out of this and ending the wars will help considerably.

But it's not everything, it could possibly take a decade or two of frugal spending to get over this. And THAT is assuming another rethug doesn't take office and fuck the whole thing up again.

But that's not the real issue here, the real issue is that the crooks who facilitated this 1. got away with it 2. have the current government by the balls and 3. none of the underlying economic problems that caused the recession are fixed.

National debt, as in the combination of corporate, household and government debt, exceeds 50 fucking trillion dollars. In case you're wondering, that's about 5 times our actual money supply.

It's a god damn wonder our country is coming down around our ears, that kind of debt is unprecedented in world history, let alone U.S. history. Private bankers are running this country into the ground because of our failed monetary system, and no amount of government spending is going to fix THAT.

This foreclosure business is NOT new, it's been happening for DECADES now. This is just the first time it's been so big and so nasty that it's caught the public attention. This kind of wealth distribution is killing us, and the combination of fractional reserve loaning and the Fed is the root cause.

This happened in the late nineties with the dotcom crash, in the late eighties/early nineties with an almost EXACTLY identical banking scheme which among other things led to an excuse for mass layoffs which Clinton then secured with NAFTA and other bullshit free trade agreements.

What I'm getting at is that these things are NOT accidents, they are intentional crashes facilitated by economic elites. These things DON'T HURT people like that, they get to secure all of the foreclosed properties. And if they do get fucked, they ask for a bailout or they'll facilitate a depression by wiping out their money supply.

Woah, man, you are all over the place.

I sorta get your world view. I understand where you are coming from. There are a few inconsistencies, though. The Fed is not what compels businesses and individuals to finance start ups and homes. Individuals and businesses choose to use debt to get access to much needed necessities like a machine to produce inventory or a car to get to and from work. Unfortunately, individuals tend to use it for glam rather than necessity. I digress. Yes, the fed ultimately provides the cash for banks to lend. Let's get rid of the Fed... then what?

The Fed is nothing more than a tool, when used improperly it can do harm, when used properly it can do much good.

Where did you get the $400 billion interest payment number? The budget claims that net interest is $289 billion this year and projected to plummet as more tarp money comes in (I guess) but it's coming back up again, soon. That doesn't mean I like it. I am just saying that it isn't as bad as you quoted. It's still a lot. 10% of tax revenue is a hell of a lot.

I have a tough time believing that the crashes are planned by "the elites." I think adequate regulation is good enough to keep people from getting screwed. Please, show some proof if you want to change my mind on that.

"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country." Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862.

You are supporting a dogma that is 150 years old.

The situation is different now. The problem is different now.

Then, income disparity was much less. (except for black people and women)

Finally, some questions for you:

Tax cuts - Explain how this improves the public welfare

Drill hear/Drill now - We couldn't produce enough oil to satisfy our demand and wean ourselves off of foreign imports, assuming that the purpose is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Why not take the more cost effective route and use clean energy instead?

Build nuclear energy plants - Hasn't been done for decades. Do you think there may be a reason why? If it's not cost effective, that means it requires subsidies. Tampering with the free market isn't good for conservatives to be consistent.

Get government out of healthcare - OK, no more medicare. Then what?

get government out of the automobile business - Last I checked, the one company that is now under government control was making a b-line towards bankruptcy. Now it's much smaller and improving... I guess government CAN do a good job, after all?

impeach prezbho - for...?

impeach most of congress - again, what for? They were voted in on majority.

fine illegals andsend them home - Wouldn't that require the expansion of government to track them down and haul them out?

fine companies who hire illegals - I think they put them in jail, actually. But hey, if we are going to make government bigger to do so, then by all means, enforce the law...

secure borders - OK, with what troops? Again, this would require a huge expansion of government, something conservatives are supposed to be against.

I could continue - No, please, explain what you have already suggested, first.

True that.