Getting Waterboarded

I know this has been going on for years, but the US really does use "Terrorism" to rationalise anything Immoral these days.

And terrorism is always on the news around the world, more than ever before, to keep the people scared. There's more airport security, more surveillance, less privacy.

I was only 7 when It happened so I didn't really take much notice of the world around me. I've only just started to understand what people mean by "9/11 changed the world". It seems like Governments are using it their advantage now, to get whatever they want. As long as they can claim its for "the war on terrorism", the people will remember 9/11 and accept anything. Like waterboarding.

Waterboarding is not Torture....the real torture is what they do to us...

Yay, they just showed this on Countdown with Keith Olbermann on msnbc.

24 minutes, one heck of a vanguard correspondent, and very brave too.

What is the difference between "there" and "their"?
Education

That's not waterboarding. I thought you have to stretch a plastic bag across there face and then put there face under a faucet.

This is extremely hard to watch. And this just what the US is admitting to, imagine what's in all those destroyed tapes.

Yeah, that was difficult to watch. but not quite as difficult as watching a live human getting their head cut off and hearing them scream. Not quite as hard as watching someone jump out of a 110 story building to escape fire. Also, just shy of watching surveillance video of commuters in a train station being overtaken by an explosion.

His laughing at the conclusion was just a little harder to watch than looking at a corpse. Given a choice I'd take the water board if it saved just ONE life.

But that's just me. Bunch of animals we are pretending to be civilized. But really think about how you would behave if it is life or death for you.

At the end of this piece Kaj asked if the viewers want to see the the people in government that authorized torture held accountable. I thought that was the most important response to make and I am surprised more viewers aren't agreeing with me. I want to see all those responsible for torture held accountable, up to and including George W. Bush!

this piece deserves a standing ovation

Kaj also knows they will stop if he tells them to, and that he will not die. This is all about psychology.

on a less serious note did anyone notice Kaj lasted 24 minutes and the average was supposed to be 2? Kaj is hardcore.

For ALL of you who oppose this, the likelihood is that you would have a different opinion if you had experienced the pain of loosing a loved one due to a Terrorist. We are all subject to falling into the trap that these people are like us, and that they have morals like us. The truth is, they live with a medieval mindset in a modern tech world. They will not change, they will not leave us alone. They WILL NOT STOP until we convert to Muslims and change our laws to match theirs. If we have to make 1 individual uncomfortable, if we have to terrorize 1 individual to save the lives of 1000's then so be it. There are many of you that will disagree with this, and I respect that. But just remember these words and your disagreement to them when 100s of thousands die in the next terrorist attack that will involve a nuclear weapon.

I can't figure out why Dick Cheney keeps running through my mind while I watch this amazingly well done report.

This was an extremely powerful pod, watching this made me feel hurt, and to think that so much of this really honestly under debate is terrible, but it's true. This was a great pod, very moving.

I just watched this a few minutes ago and was horrifically disheartened by the naivety of people "No one likes torture?" If no one liked it, why would it happen? Also, if there were easier, quicker and more humane ways to get information, don't you think people would be using them? After being on the receiving end of some forms of torture for the study of social vs inherited willpower, I know how easy it can be to withhold the information people want, and how quickly they can be coerced into using torture methods; even by the person they ended up torturing! I dared five people into doing it! I've been through sensory deprivation, starvation, near drowning (and not that pussy 'water boarding' either), heat and cold extremes, severe beatings and my personal favorite, cutting (using and x-acto knife to put as many small paper cuts on a person and pouring salt/rubbing alcohol or other painful things on the cuts). Everyone learned a lot about ourselves and each other through those tests, and just how much a person can go through when they have the will to see something through. I have forgiven all those who put me through such suffering as I literally asked for most of it. I just wish that people would quit being such fucking babies about all this stuff. There is a wide, vast world OUTSIDE of suburbia that not only exists of its own volition, but in direct contrast to the white picket fence world because not everyone is white, rich and fucking a celebrity. Some people have to work very hard everyday just to maintain a 'sub-poverty level.' And we do it without health and/or dental benefits, without enough food, without proper transportation and o lot of times without childcare or even a place to live. The world is not like it looks on tv, it is a hard place to live, but we manage to. Suck it up people!

It's good that people are talking about these things, that is the first step. This band ISM did a music video for their song Sacred Cows and the lead singer went through waterboarding for the video. The whole video is about how things like this happen everyday all around us and no one pays attention. You can watch the video on their myspace page
http://www.myspace.com/ism
And the lead singer writes a blog: http://andremistier.blogspot.com/ where he talks about daily things, a lot of is on things people don't really pay attention to.
People need to start paying attention to the world around them. Up until a month ago I had no idea what waterboarding was- I thought it was a water sport. But if we start paying attention and talking about it who knows what could happen.

that vedio made me sick! and so did a good ammount of theese comments, how can you iggnorant poeple think this practice of infliction of pain onto another human being is justifieable. its malicuis and twisted. i cannot defend what terrorist do, they are terrible poeple but do you not see that were stooping to there level? im only 13, i dont know the roots of this method or the pollitics involved, what i do know is that "president" Bush has violated almost every law we put in place to protect people and used it to hurt them and torture them and demeen them. he is everything wrong with this country a brass conservetive who thinks hes better than everyone else and smarter than everyone else. im sure you all think im just some kid who dosent like bush because my paretns dont like him. well i think for myself and im not always right and im not always wise to everything about what i think about. but i know enough and have enough moral fiber to deam this a twisted act of cerulty. i respect everyones opinion on just about everything because im mature enough to admit i dont know what is right for everyone and about everything but i just cannot beleve that some people still think the way they do. if i have offended anyone please forgive me. i just dont often get a chance to express how i feel about this topic. my friends are to stupid to care and my school steers away from theese sort of "sensitive" ishues

Good for him: that's real journalism! The only thing more repulsive than the thought of going through that torture is the fact that the government used it and defend its use to this day.

Just because something doesn't leave a mark, doesn't mean it can't be torture. It appears that government officials who permit this are either a particularly dangerous kind of stupid, or else are deliberately going against the Geneva convention; however I would be inclined to suspect both.

the matter of whether we call it torture or not should not be the issue here. coercive interrogation should not be used. people will say anything to stop that kind of thing happening.

from the footage it is clearly horrific and it is completely out of order that a country like the US does things like this.

the Japanese in WW2 used to do horrible things to POWs like rip out their fingernails as interrogation techniques. Everyone pretty much agrees that this was wrong, but is it torture, they don't die. They'll live another day. Other than pain and a bit of bleeding what harm does it have. Clearly lots. Waterboarding isn't much better.

Just for the record, "WhiteWolf," I was wounded three times by rifle fire, still have shrapnel working its way around in my body, and am missing a piece of a vertebral disk where a bullet in the abdomen clipped it away. That was fighting for my country.

On account of the U.S. Government (IRS, among others), on the other hand, I lived in the wilderness and off the land for a little more than ten years. I slept in a tent or on the ground in the open, rode a bicycle or backpacked everywhere, survived more than a dozen muggings, was run down by motor vehicles six times, and deliberately poisoned twice.

I suffered a broken wrist, three broken ribs, a deep facial laceration (32 stitches), and a concussion a car chasing me rammed the car I was driving. Recovering from a gang attack in a parking lot one night (testicle smashed by a length of chain wielded by one assailant), I spent three days and nights hiding in a culvert, prevented by pain from more movement.

There's more (the total war with the U.S. government and the criminal corporations who own it lasted twenty-three years), but that will suffice, I trust, to say that I don't need anyone like you to tell me about "comfort of your living room."

Isn't it amazing how people can have the right to ridicule those who are doing nothing more than protect them from the direct pains of war? How easy it is for all of you to talk about what is right and what is wrong from the comfort of your livingroom when you have no idea what the pains of war feel like when they are in your own backyard. 9/11 is nothing compaired to years of war on your own soil. You complain about how you "can't handle the stresses of life" in the safest Country in the world, while peope in Third World Countries live with more stress than you can possibly imagine every day. You worry about having enough to pay for your $30, 000 car, while they worry about having enough rice to feed their family for one meal a day. You need a psychiatrist to cope with such a hard life, yet you have NO idea what a "hard life" is. Live safe in your "painful" life of not being able to afford a new 52" TV and bitch about how your protectors keep you safe, or get off your asses and live in a Third World Country as they do and wish that someone would protect you as used to have it. If you idiots had been running our Country in the 1950's we'd all be speaking Russian and begging for bread.

Wake up to reallity!!! Morons

I can argue both sides. I've been shot with the taser as part of training in law enforcement. As soon as the current was shut off after five seconds of hell I was fine. No lasting effects. But would I consider it torture to use as an interogation tool? You bet.

My wife went through SERE as a young air force academy cadet in the late eighties and was abused and tortured as part of her training. She went home that summer to her horrorfied parents 15 pounds underweight and covered with bruises. Her crime was that she was a brilliant, beautiful, and athletic patriot who wanted to serve her country. Do I sympathiize with a terrorist who gets a little water down his gullet? No.

Torture is never the answer. You cant get good information from someone by making them feel like they are dying.

Reading the remarks here is fascinating, in that it demonstrates what I believe history will cite as a priniple cause for U.S. decline - that being the way people who obviously know little of any particular subject will hold forth as though they were experts. The reason, for instance, that as many as 120 people have died in U.S. custody since "Iraqi Freedom" began is that "waterboarding" actually drowns the victim, then revives him repetitively (usually, of course, one drowning is enough to get him to say literally anything). Frequently, however, the effort to revive the victim fails - oops! The "waterboarding" demonstrated here may indeed be characterized as such, but it would be the mildest form of the torture (until a few years ago, defined as such in CIA manuals intended for training in the methods). The enactment here is very much on the order of waterboarding received by SERE trainees and the like, and intended merely to enhance the trainee's chances of enduring torture successfully. The demonstrations the U.S. public is receiving - like this one - are examples of the CIA tactic known as "limited hangout" - disclosure of a lesser crime, error, or the like in order to satisfy investigators (or the public) and dissuade them from looking for or finding the greater crime, error, or the like. An example of the "greater" is the current favorite of U.S. interrogators, that of suspending the victim from hands tied behind him, arms tied together and straight, his head being thereby forced downward toward his knees. Drowning in this case requires hours, being done gradually as the lungs fill with bodily fluid. Foreign news reports have described at least one "subject" having died that way under CIA interrogation at Abu Graib prison. Torture, finally, isn't usually done in order to get information (obviously, the capture of any person with critical information has been provided for by his organization, and his disappearance results in immediate use of alternate procedures negating any benefit accruing from his compromise by torture). The exceptions - names of confederates, etc - are seldom actually useful and all but always negated by security procedures within the victim's organization. NO one is stupid enough (well, we are, maybe) to let anyone in any position critical to his organization's effectiveness know others who are likewise critical. For those interested, I'll write more on my website www.judoknighterrant.com

Don't blame congress people--blame yourselves. Congress is in office because WE put them there--they are a reflection of us.

Protest, send comments to your leaders, become active, write letters to the editor, representatives, etc--I do.

Our elected officials are scared of the next election--let them know how you feel!

I agree with what they are saying about waterboarding. Information from the Iraqi’s could save soldiers.

I think that your video displayed the fact that water boarding is really torture. I believe that what ever has to be done has to be done. Were all people even if our views are not the same we should still realize that its another human that is being tortured put it this way if you were water boarded would you call it torture?

GOOD JOB KAJ!

I look forward to watching your videos in the future. You have a great incentive and you are not afraid to get to real scoop. Great job.

You are a good reporter.

This is a HORRIBLE process! Unnecessary, considering that dying is an honorable process amongst the extremists they do it to. They are martyrs then.

i totally agree with this cause water boarding is probably really scary all though i have never experienced it and never will want to.. but i really dont think that people should be tortured that way cause it could kill you. so yeah i also think that every one should be treated farily...

Waterboarding is viewed in this video as an interrogation method, interrogation is basically a hostile interview. Waterboading makes you feel as if you were dying or drowning. Equality is one thing and we should look at it as treating someone equal, if a terrorist treats or torture’s us like that were doing the same thing back to them to get out answers as if they were doing the same thing to us. I don’t think waterboarding should be legal but if it is used to defend the U.S. let it happen.

i agrreeeee verry intresting that dosnt look too bad what little babies

I still disagree and I don’t think its torture and it’s a great form of interrogation. He experienced it and even said it himself all he was thinking he wants to tell them or do what they want to get them to stop and that’s what we need to do to people to get the terrorists plans to save lives.

Agree with your post about Waterboarding. i think that it is a very good example of how it is done and why. i think that waterboarding is a matter of life and death and it can really harm people mentally or physically. i dont agree with waterboarding at all i think it is considered tourture and should not be used in the U.S. this is a good video and after i watched it i learned alot about waterboarding.

even though you presented this piece a while ago, it is still something that needs to be played over and over!!
This video just disturbed me to no end and I cannot imagine going through it like you did, but administering it on someone else! That is crazy!!
Thank you for showing the "tame" version of it!

And yet 5 minutes later he's perfectly fine with no ill effects.

Torture? I think not.

Sawing somebody's head off with a knife, that's torture.

Sheesh. Yeah, must be real brutal when the kid LAUGHS about it when it's over.

"That really sucked! Hyuk! Hyuk!"

Not a strong argument, pal. Especially since I think the guys who took your $800 are doing it wrong. Ineptitude abounds throughout this entire video.

Waterboarding is pretty tame stuff, and gets results. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch and get off the terrorists side. I'm embarrassed for you.

Maybe many of you may not realize that prisoners of war in United States owned territories do not have the rights of U.S. citizens. TheUnited States Supreme Court ruled specifically that the Constitution does not follow the flag. United States territories do not have the same constitutional rights as do the states.

Name one time when waterbparding has killed a prisoner. Never. The Geneva convention was decades before modern technology. Keeping it not is like not indexing wages and taxes for inflation. It absurd. Hey maybe FDR abused the 8th Amendment when he interned each person of Japanese descent.

Don't just accuse Bush because of his conservative affiliation.

Just go vote for Obama. He supplies us with so much hope. Maybe he can single handedly end waterboarding as well as all of America's problems.
Please...

How many lives have been saved because captured ‘terrorists’ have been vigorously interrogated with a rag and a large bucket of water? Not just US lives but Iraqi lives as well. How much information was gained through the practice of water boarding that led to larger information sources?

How many caches of weapons have been found?
How many terrorist ‘cells’ have been exposed?
How many terrorist leaders and recruiters have been found?
How many young adults have not been taught to strap themselves to a bomb?
How many young adults not taught to commit suicide for the causes of others?

I saw the video and the practice looks horrible. Water boarding is certainly mentally cruel, even I wouldn’t argue that. But how long did it take Kaj to completely recover and walk away? My point is that while Water Boarding is an extreme method of causing dire discomfort, it’s effective and causes no lasting damage.

Is making a suspected terrorist THAT uncomfortable worth the gains listed above, answer that for yourself.

With some critics, regarding the war, you just can’t make happy. They seem to be protesting simply to protest. These same voices who call for a faster resolution to the conflict in Iraq are some of the same screaming about the abusive use of interrogation techniques, seemingly ignoring the fact that these techniques are/were/would bring the conflict to a speedier resolution. Maybe Kaj should get those SERE instructors to demonstrate some interrogation techniques NOT being used on suspected terrorists by US interrogators.

I was searching the internet for articles about opinions on waterboarding - one to get more information and two to help me form my personal view about this controversial subject. This article/video has to be the best I have seen. I still form the view that sometimes when we are dealing with people who have a complete lack of morals and rational thinking we cannot pretend that we can defeat these sort of people by continuing to act 100% moral ourselves - we cannot win the war by failing to take the lives of terrorists as they take our lives.

But as you will say waterboarding is a different subject. The difference here is how we differentiate our actions from that of the terrorist. I think we all agree that waterboarding is a form of torture - but if you have watched the clip there is no phyisical or lasting mental damage to the subject unlike those who are caught by the terrorists and in fact the use of this technique is trying to save life (i wont start a separate debate on its effectiveness!).

As highlighted in the clip it is the accountability of those who carryout this technquie that separates our use of toture to that of the terrorists - but if the actions of those not accountable we are no better than the terrorists.

I agree that beheading someone is equally as brutal as torture but disagree they are the same. Beheading someone is for the sole purpose of simply killing them whereas torture can last for A LOT longer time then the average beheading (or hanging) and can be administered on a daily basis whereas beheading only happens once...=/
I find that identifying the two with each other may help some people here rationalize it but they are different crimes altogether. Nevertheless, still crimes!

I personally cringe at the thought of either.

Waterboarding is coercive interrogation, which I also consider a subsidiary of torture. So why does it matter what we call it? Some people seem to think torture is decapating another person's head with the dull blade of a kitchen knife. Others are shocked and disturbed when viewing a man in a ski mask stuff a wet rag down Kaj's mask.

Both are forms of torture, but they're is a varying degree of brutality between the two that is undeniable.
First off Kaj could attempt water boarding, whereas, willfully severing his head would have been ludicrous.
So is one torture over another acceptable for our military to use? Bush seems to think so. Once again this sultan of spin is able to address to our country that we will continue torturing suspected terrorists. Although if anyone has seen the recent Oscar winning documentary "Cab Driver", it is clear that "suspected" is really more close to those getting handpicked at an airport terminal.

Thus, as usual, language has been Bush's ultimate weapon. Although we mock him for his dull rhetoric, it has allowed him to walk all over our fears, patriotism, and indifference. The English language in particular has always been liquid, opposed to stone, with all its words, and various meanings. Bush uses the malleability of it like bayonet, knifing through our doubt. Listen to his words like, "axis of evil", "liberty", "lets roll", "coercive interrogation" and the most recent statement Bush made defending his veto on the ban of water boarding and other tactics: "It (torture) is our greatest tool to defeating terrorism."

So Kaj, although entertaining and informative, I don't think it will really help change the current protocol. For that to happen, we may just need to wait for a new president.

I call it extracting information and not torture.

They, being the terrorists, don't follow ANY of the rules set forth by the Geneva Convention so as far as I'm concerend, let them torture the hell out of them. If it saves some innocent lives or some American soldiers lives, then do it.

that's right!
and F the notion of leading the world by example! err...wait....
our example should be...KILL EM ALL!!! because our external politics should in no way reflect our internal politics. How dare those lefties for thinking we should treat the rest of the world with the same respect we treat our citizens. They don't live here and EVERY foreigner is a potential "terrorist".
errr...wait...nvm
it is a global humanitarian relief operation meant to spread "peace and liberty" to the poor of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

I could give 2 shits less about a fair trial for non US citizens. Our constitution is in place to protect OUR citizens, F (and yes that's a BIG capital F) the people wanting to attack our citizens.

Thats RIGHT!
ALL criminal "suspects" should be waterboarded into confessing their crimes regardless of the crime they are "suspect" of. You can't possibly give them a "fair" trial...that would simply give the lefties a chance to let them go since they are obviously not smart enough to weigh the evidence for themselves.
I mean cmon....fair trials by jury are as outdated as the lefty notion of "peace".
I personally feel that the ENTIRE population should be rounded up and waterboarded to prevent the crimes they could "potentially" commit. I can't believe you "bleeding hearts" can't follow the "logic" in that. In fact, limiting this activity to gitmo alone is the worst part. We should be doing this to "suspects" all across America in local law "enforcement" offices EVERYWHERE!
Rights? You have the "right" to be accused and waterboarded until you confess to your dastardly deeds.
YAY!!! LET FREEDOM RING!!

Take your bleeding heart sob stories to the families that lost people in the 9-11 massacre. Getting a little water thrown in your face and being forced to THINK you're drowning are a FAR CRY from the brutality the radical islamo-fascists are willing to use to achieve their goal. I say waterboarding is far from what they deserve.

God! All you Bushites in this thread should realize just ONE thing.

The "War on Terror" is a ruse. It is a war to control the oil and territory in Iraq and to encourage U.S. Citizens to give up certain right in return for "PERCEIVED" safety.

AND....do you MORONS who believe Bush know the following fact?

You have a greater chance of being struck by lightning in the U.S. than of being killed or hurt by Islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's another: Over 100,000 people DIE every year in the United States at the hands of doctors and health care workers who make a mistake while you are being treated for an illness in a hospital, you IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!! And you thought Tort Reform would HELP lower this figure for what reason again?

Here you have abrogated you constitutional rights and allowed the destruction of many of your freedoms just because of a public relations blitz using fear to manipulate your simple minds!

Oh, BTW, Bravo to ABlindEye! No sarcasm here from me! Your post showed a perfect correlation of some old torture tricks that were similar to the same atrocities you and I are both condemning here!

Take a hint from how ABlindEye makes the point that WITCH DUNKING in Salem, Massachusetts, did no more good than waterboarding and produced no more reliable results than the Bush-approved torture of today.

I think the only difference that turned us away from Dunking Stools and toward Waterboarding were Bush's unwillingness to take money away from programs like Welfare for Exxon (grants to study alternative energy sources for a company that should ALREADY be doing that on their own just to keep up with the decline in oil reserves and ever-growing demand as a fuel.).

Bush, Rove and Cheney didn't want to leave the biggest Republican contributors with no pork by having to purchasr new Dunking Stools when a wooden bench, a washcloth and a water hose would do the trick.

You righties are not only brain dead but you have sold people on seeing a terrorist behind every tree.

Bush is a LYING CREEP and you're running him a close second.

Well it IS torture like lots of other tortures. It's interesting that in the middle ages torture (at least as was administered through the church) was used in conjunction with lots and lots of interviews, sometimes over years. The church was try to change behavior not just get a confession.

My problem with the whole thing is that we (American Govt) deny that waterboarding is torture or we legalistically justify it in the name of necessity. It smacks of hypocrisy, and not at all to my taste. I say admit it clearly and then do it. No apologies. That or don't. Just don't be a hypocrite.

I would prefer, vote, encourage, dream of these things not happening but violence is the nature of this creation.

All the nay-sayers here should take a step back and remember how effective this practice was to get confessions out of evil blasphemes witches back in the good 'ol days. It was a widely chosen way to get confessions from hedonistic pagans in the name of "all that is righteous and pure". Besides...our minds have substantially evolved since then, right? I consider myself more of a renaissance man though...I'm still fond of the rack...and heated rat cage on the belly trick....those were more fun and entertaining for the public.
Now for some good 'ol american humor to gloss it over a bit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKxnaMeOK20

Maybe this practice could've prevented building 7 from coming down? nvm...the wind blew that one down...

I am against toture but after seeing this piece - I feel like....what's the big deal? If a little water and drowning similation will make someone "fess up" so be it. No one's head was getting sawed off.....no one had their nails pulled off. If this is waterboarding - I say - let it continue. We put up with too much and it's time to stop terrorism.

Torture is torture, no matter what name it is given, no matter who it is done too. And by the way the islamo-fascists are the only terrorist in the world today. I believe it was an american named Timothy that set a bomb off in OK City. Or what about Columbine High School, there were kids who had heard it was going to happen, should we have waterboarded them for the sake of stopping it from occuring? So for people who don't think that waterboarding is okay to do, is it okay if we start in on americans that bomb places and kill people? When does it become okay to torture people?

For one this is defiantly a "controlled" environment in which the result at the end is laughter which can completely result in distortion of the reality of this "torture". Understand in prison they play for keeps and the horror of this torture is disgustingly brutal as it is unequivocally barbaric behavior. Understand that the hypocrisy of our government enables further abuse of mankind.
The result of a breakdown in communication and frustration that lies within that is what spurs on this behavior and the people that resort to it...Just as the breakdown in communication that occurs between presidents of nations results in war which in turn spurs on mammoth barbaric behavior in one human to another.
On smaller scales.....The breakdown of communication and frustration of not being able to express ones self and to be understood by the other inspires abuse within families....inspires fighting on local street corners and our schools.
Do we not speak to teach our children that abuse and fighting is wrong...thing is, its our adult population that teaches them to do so....teaches the hypocrisy and the art to do so. Then we turn and say that it is wrong to them. Words are just that... we can only teach through our ACTIONS.
So now I turn to our Adults of our nation, Our presidents of country's and Nations...and I say........ "IT IS WRONG"

After watching this piece, I am PERFECTLY fine with this tactic being used on NON- Geneva convention signatories. If the terrorists want to behead, dismember, & burn our citizens and troops then waterboarding is a FAR CRY from what they deserve. I think there should be some rules in place as to when and where this can be used but to completely discard an effective interrogation technique would be ludicrous facing the truly commited islamo-fascists that will stop at NOTHING to end the American way of life. Moral relativists and those who lead more "liberal" lifestyles are the absolute source of the true believer islamo-fascists HATRED for the American way of life. They may not be keying in on you right now b/c you are their best friend when it comes to tactics they use while incarcerated as they claim their "rights" are being violated. Don't kid yourselves though, liberals would be the 1st target once you have outlived your usefulness.

I find the whole idea of "if it's legal, it must be moral" attitude as a kind of lazy thinking. For me, this is a type of doublespeak that I hear from both Republicans and Democrats, depending on the convenience of its use. For the Republicans, its the waterboarding/torture issue. For the Democrats, its abortion/infanticide/euthanasia. I'm disgusted with the way our American society has crept down to the lowest common moral denominator.

Why do people like "clearthinker" come up with such oxymoronic screen names to call themselves? Is it because they think we will believe that they really are "clear tinkers" if they go on a tirade like his and then name themselves something like "The President", "The Vice-President" or "Clear Thinker"? Clearly, he is no better than our eveil leaders, Bush and Cheney.

The comparison to Nicholas Berg was a CHEAP TRICK like saying that because we might use a sharper blade to behead someone, it somehow made us better than the terrorists who used a dull blade.

NEWSFLASH, you idiot, the U.S. is SUPPOSED to b better than the terrorists!

"clearthinker" represents the the very worst of the people who call themselves "patriots"!

i am going to ask my teacher at school if i can do this to show my school what waterboarding is and if it is torture or not.

I have been waterboarded... In my training as a US fighter pilot, this was a part of our training so we would know what to expect if we were shot down and captured. I don't believe it is torture, per se (see below), and I can say that it is quite effective at persuading someone to answer questions -- whether the answers are accurate, or simply what the detainee thinks the interrogaters want to hear is a totally separate issue.............

BTW, there was one pilot in my group who was not affected by the waterboarding process -- he could breathe freely, and this really frustrated our captors (he later explained that as a scuba diver, he learned how to trap air bubbles in his mouth, and breathe those)!...... Myself? -- well, I found it to be EXTREMELY unpleasant, and akin to drowning..................

What constututes torture may be different for every individual (remember when the US played rock music 24x7 to get Gereral Manuel Noriega out of his palace in 1990?). Some folks may think that being forced to watch reruns of "Hee Haw" or the Lawrence Welk show or watching a slide-show of your next door grand parents' summer vaction would be torture..................

If deriving information from an enemy combatant will save lives, then we need to use the best ways possible to obtain that information...............

Would sodium pentathol be torture? Should it be permitted as a more humane means? How about the venerated lie detector test? Who knows?...................

In just about every war documented in history one side or the other (or both) used physical torture when interrogating prisoners. Regrettably, in some cases, prisoners were tortured as a way of life...................

There needs to be a balance between using "excessive force" or "torture" versus complacently failing to get useful information from enemy combatants...................

In any event, don't proclaim it as torture until you have tried it... or until you have lost friends / family on a battlefield or to insurgent activities.

Talk to Amnesty International and get their reaction to your cheap, shallow, theatrical trick. You have now shown a million people a disneyland version of a horrendous experience. Talk to someone who has been grabbed in the night, beaten, stressed and undergone days - weeks - months of the real thing. You must know that such an unfortunate soul would be told terrible things about their family's current health (or death). They would have no sense of security as your reporter. For them, it is not a scripted scene with a quick, if uncomfortable interlude. Shame on you for trivializing and sugarcoating such a horrendous activity.

I am so dismayed by many of the comments I see. I agree everyone has the right to their own opinion and that disagreeing with those who classify this as torture does NOT make them a fool, or some of the other things that have been said in some comments.

But what many people seem to be missing is that it is NOT just 'pouring water over a rag on the face'. The demo as he said did NOT include the being completely cuffed and totally tied down so the reported could not move his head, arms, body, etc, and the bottom line is it MAKES THE PERSON THIS IS GETTING DONE TO FEEL AS IF THEY ARE DROWNING.
How can an intelligent person actually believe that feeling as if you are drowning would NOT be torture?

Also, I don't think anyone really is submitting that if we do not do torture, 'THEY' will be nicers to American prisoners they capture - what is being said is that as an American, we are SUPPOSED TO STAND FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT and THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO ABHOR THESE PEOPLE FOR THE VERY REASON THAT THEY DO HAVE SUCH A TOTAL DISCREGARD FOR THE VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE AND DRAW NO LINES. So how do we help ourselves by acting in ways that make us resemble the people we want to claim ourselves to be above?

I think that people should know that this technique is one of the less extreme physical and psychological methods of torture that is now common practice all throughout U.S. run prisons and stations on Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. Much more severe tactics, like starvation, sexual humiliation, sensory deprivation, and complex sets of mental erosion are used at will. And its very well known that psychological torture is MUCH more destructive and harmful than physical torture.

another VERY important thing to point out is that 95% (yes, almost ALL) detainees at Abu Ghriab and other detention facilities were RELEASED WITHOUT CHARGE. That means that these "terrorists" all over Iraq (which i repeat: had nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever) were held and tortured indefinitely were 100% INNNNNNNOOOOOCCCCEEEEENNNNNTT.

it was a brilliant idea for kaj to demonstrate this controversial act so that pple could see its cruelty. having said that, there is something that bothers me about kaj saying "i am going to be waterboarded." there was such a falseness to the act that i can't quite explain. the physical act of waterboarding is just the half of it kaj. "that's funny, ithought iwas going to die too." really? did you? the possibility of dying is very real for those who r waterboarded. even with ur disclaimers of reminding us that the pod was produced in the best of conditions does not negate its falseness. this pod was unsettling to me for all the wrong reasons.

From Geneva...

"Torture or inhuman treatment of prisoners-of-war or protected persons are grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, and are considered war crimes. War crimes create an obligation on any state to prosecute the alleged perpetrators or turn them over to another state for prosecution. This obligation applies regardless of the nationality of the perpetrator, the nationality of the victim or the place where the act of torture or inhuman treatment was committed."

I'm not going to attack the Bush administration for jumping through loopholes to "inhumanly treat" POW's of out current conflict, I think its absurd that nothing has been radically changed to stop them from doing it. Such a blatant violation of the Geneva convention should be punished, and I'm curious why it has not.

How far will the US go to protect its national security? In my opinion, They've already gone far enough.

Cheers Kaj for lasting 20 minutes, that looked rough.

Thanks for the demonstration Kaj. After reading about your background in the comments, I now understand why you were able to keep your composure for so long in the video. Whatever anyone wants to call this interrogation method, its wrong for America. Public acceptance of this policy by the U.S. only makes the fight for freedom more difficult. For example, an enemy soldier will be more apt to fight to the death when faced with the prospects of torture. During the first Gulf War thousands of Iraqis surrendered knowing that they would receive humane treatment. The question is, what will happen during the next war? The justification for torture is borne out of frustration, impatience, and anger; the use of such goes against all humanity. Senator McCain has my vote, as he was one of the few that took a stand against torture.

Congratulations on your courage Kaj. Your piece is used on every news show about waterboarding. The fact that Mukasey refuses to acknowledge waterboarding is torture, even when asked by Senator Kennedy yesterday, further proof of the lives, coverup and corruption of this administration and the continuing Constipation of the United States of America. The Constitution actually defines torture as that which "Shocks the conscience". But the REAL reason Mukasey has denied waterboarding is torture, is, if he does, Bush and Cheney could rightfully be brought up on war crimes for treason and executed. Be still my foolish heart. Sandi

Thank you Kaj for your patriotic service in making this pod. The reason Mukasey refuses to acknowledge waterboarding as torture, even for the third time when Senator Kennedy asked him yesterday if it would be torture if it were done to him, is if he admits it is torture, Bush and Cheney will be brought up on war crimes for treason, that's won hanging I'd pay to see. Just one more of the examples of the Constipation of the United States of America. See my Daniel Ellsberg pods. The actual wording in the Constitution, it is torture if it is a "shock to the conscience". Thank you so much Kaj for your courage, this is the clip that is shown on all the news outlets to show people what this is. Thanks to you and as always, CTV for the venue. It is viral democracy at its best. Sandi

very good report - fair and balanced look at the topic
thanks

could be worse... they could threten to cut off your nutts when ya answer wrong.... thats a little worse then drowning but then again that dose go under organ failure and proof of turture

Very informative. Well put together. Don't see anything wrong with it. Well except the part that he paid them to waterboard him.

Very horrifying, yet very educational. I think it?s important that we know what our government is doing in our name, and thanks to this pod, now more than ever, I say ?not in mine?. The pod raises some really interesting questions. The long shot of the water boarding was surprisingly captivating since it contains no cuts ? it really helped explain the process. The multiple images (interview and demo) in one frame was an effective way to hear from experts while still explaining the process. It would have been interesting to hear from someone who adamantly supports water boarding to learn why thy feel that way. Kudos for putting yourself through this to educate the rest of us.

Excellent video. Very informative. As a side point, Alan Dershowitz shows his true colors once again... I think it would be enlightening for him and the viewers to submit himself to the same exercise like the reporter just to be sure that he is sure of his stance.

5) Kaj's willingness to undergo waterboarding in a controlled situation is commendable and I think the pod provides a great visual representation of waterboarding for laymen. But the 'will' and 'control' parts are the operative words and is exactly why this pod will never capture the terror of the situation. For example, recollect a time when you were on an airplane in the sky and there was a moment of turbulence. For many people that can be an anxious situation because as a passenger, you have no control and limited knowledge of the situation. As the pilot, turbulence is part of the daily routine. Now imagine that level of anxiety if you were out getting groceries and all of a sudden you are violently abducted and then put on that plane? Now you have been stripped of choice on top of having no control and knowledge of the situation. Forget the turbulence, your future is now uncertain and possibly your life -- but fortunately, this plane isn't serving physical and long-term psychological torture for lunch. As with using waterboarding during intelligence gathering, the whole of point of the procedure and why it gets confessions (truthful or not) is that you believe that you will drown and suffocate to death. For interrogators, the 'wonderful' thing about waterboarding is that suffocated victims can often be resuscitated and it leaves little physical evidence, just in case one day someone decides to hold people accountable.

6) Finally, Kaj's laughing. People do some funny things in high stress situations. Kaj's post-torture laughing reminded me the Milgram Experiments (Read about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment). Several of Milgram's participants laughed hysterically at the presumed suffering of another individual due to electrical shock. Turn that on its head so that the participant is willingly enduring torture to himself, and you've got yourself an absurd and high stress situation.

2) Torture has always been about confessions and punishment - not about rooting out the truth. People being tortured have a breaking point and at that point, a person will do anything to stop the psychological and physical pain, even if it means lying. Suffocate (i.e. waterboard) a person for 24 minutes and not only will they lie about being a terrorist and contrive a plausible story of their participation but they will also admit to the assassination of JFK and that they are solely responsible for global warming. Why is lying bad for intelligence gathering? The main reason is that chasing around false allegations results in fewer resources for chasing around substantiated intelligence. So if the goal is finding answers, torture is not the way. If the goal is punishment, retribution, and finding scapegoats for a foreign policy, torture can produce plenty of unwilling participants.

3) Intelligence existed months prior to 9/11 that suggested a terrorist plot using aircraft was in the works by Al-Queda. The problem was inter-agency communication, not a lack of raw intelligence -- and to date, the governmental roadblocks that prevent information sharing are still prevalent. Yet, this aspect of intelligence gathering has been lost in the discussion of torture, "yes" or "no". We should ask "How about torture?" And answer "No, not just because it doesn't work, but because there is another time-tested option we know produces intelligence. Now we need to improve the communication aspects to make it work for intelligence agencies."

4) Regardless of political leanings and a person's position on the war on terrorism, I think all Americans support the troops. Some patriotic Americans want the soldiers to 'defeat the terrorists', some patriotic Americans want the soldiers brought home from an 'immoral and illegal war' and others patriotic Americans want something else. But as Americans, we know that the American people don't send troops to war, politicians do. Politicians win or lose wars because they pick the wars that our troops unquestionably fight -- whether they are winnable conflicts or not, or even if "win" and "lose" have been defined. But when soldiers are just doing their jobs, soldiers risk to win or lose their health and possibly their lives. And Americans should also acknowledge that there are plenty of patriotic active duty soldiers that are in a position where they disagree with the duties our government has requested of them. They are relying on the American people to be their voice for them while they quietly serve their country. (Note: I almost didn't dignify this 'patriotic' rhetoric with a response, since some of the comments seem intent on provoking a retaliatory response instead of a discussion).

Kaj's pod is great, but I've got more thoughts on the commentary than about the pod. These are a few (a lot) of my thoughts I had after seeing the video and reading through the responses:

1) There is rarely any context about terrorists, who they are and why violent extremism takes hold as an ideal. Some people need to stop kidding themselves and acknowledge that terrorists don't "hate America for our freedoms" -- there are plenty of other free and democratic countries that aren't the focus of terrorism. Now if you look at America's global energy policies and foreign policies for the past several decades, its undeniable that the U.S. government has taken an active role in the politics and economics of Middle Eastern, African and other nations by supporting dictators, assassinations, long-term wars and whatever else provides a short term benefit to U.S. interests. The U.S. government has its fingers deep in the global "cookie jar" and it is not hard to see why many of the people from these nations associate their squalor, poverty and hegemony with the U.S. (whether the U.S. is a scapegoat or not). A basic understanding of people says that if you give a person a self-respecting level of quality of life and autonomy, their willingness to participate in terrorism is vastly diminished. Take away those humane conditions and replace it with violence, poverty, fear, and hopelessness and a person is more willing to resort to terrorism as a means to an end. Ultimately, the U.S. can continue its current foreign policy and treat terrorism retroactively by hoping its surveillance, coercion (depending on the person, torture may fit into this category), military force, and the like are effective enough to prevent immediate consequences; or the U.S. can treat terrorism proactively by helping to prevent and alleviate the conditions that engender terrorism.

wonderful pod!
it's insane to think of the torture techniques that are performed that we don't even know about

I can't believe how deluded some people are about the war being fought and the politics involved in our society that make it continue. Landis40 - until the people of the United States hold its leaders accountable for their blatant violations of international law and allow them to shift the blame to their subordinates, nothing will change. War is not the only thing that gives us our freedom, either. The only reason we need troops is because people push their ideologies on other people (the US is just as much to blame there with its "Operation Iraqi Freedom" bull).
Killing people, torturing people, and treating people like they are less than human are the reasons we have wars, and the reasons we are divided. Television keeps EVERYONE accountable, and although war is hell, it isn't a blank check to treat others inhumanely. Otherwise how would we be any different from the Nazis, or the people whose ideologies we're so against? You say the Islamists want to push their religion on us - what about the Christian missionaries in Iraq right now?? What is this war doing, except forcing democracy on a country that might not want it?? Wear the other shoes, walk a mile, and then make a decision as to who is right and who deserves to die...

landis40, to whom is your comment directed?

I received several lib replies to my earlier comments and will probably get more. TV started pretty good in the early 50'S. We took a draw in Korea, then we loss in Vietnam, and we didn't finish the Persian Gulf. Our troops need our support. They don't need everyone looking over their shoulders to see if they are humane. "War is Hell." We are at war! It doesn't matter now, why we are there. The enemy praises their hidden solders for their atrocities and you want to prosecute our solders for doing the same thing. Our solders don't need to stop and think, "Will I be prosecuted for killing this person." or "How is the best way to question this person without torturing him?" I still say get the news media out of Iraq. Let the troops do their job. Let them win this war for once. Our troops are the ones that gives you "the rights" that you enjoy. It breaks my heart every time another gets killed, injured, or even prosecuted. Have you forgotten the Twin Towers. I say again "if we don't kill them now, they will kill us latter." What you and I need to do is see that we give our Veterans (whether over there or at home) and their families better health care, better education, take care of our homeless Vets and find them jobs when they return. They put their lives on the line every day; why can't we give them better respect?

Now this is interesting, do you think that guy would have volunteered for something like having his bones broken, being cut, being beaten, etc... to demonstrate how bad torture is? why not? why only submit and volunteer for that technique?

because he knew that it is quick and relatively painless! But scary!

If you get caught by al-Qaeda they will saw your head off alive! and that is only after they really torture you!

Waterboarding equals torture.
Torture equals answers.
Answers equal actions.
Actions equal safety.
Thanks US Military and Government.

mr. kaj has just put another tool in the hands of our runaway delinquents, did you ever think that this will be attempted either viciously or out of curiosity,how can you
show your face publicly knowing that this showing is going to cost more innocent lives than political correctness can save.
I assure you soon from now we will hear of unfortunate incidents brought about by your free education.

It is ashame that stories like this are focused on the US a country that is supposed to be one of the most developed in the world. A sad commentary. I certainly haven't herd about Castro allowing this in his country. We live in one of the Greatest countries in the world, you would think War and Crimes of such were history.

Thanks for keeping this in the public eye... Thanks for putting your life on the line to do that.

i don't understand why people get mad over this water torture.we could always do what the terriost do behead and drag bodies though the street.is that humane?

dood this stuff is wick and the US government does it for sure

I feel we should not use waterboarding. I feel that if they don't talk, behead them, in public, like they do our people. The US has not won a war since the advent ot TV. Get the TV out of there. The good guy never wins. If we don't kill them now, they will surely kill us latter.

not only are we waterboarding people, they are sodomizing, brutalizing, raping, and even killing people in custody. The CIA has killed over 120 people in custody. Go to youtube and watch a movie called The Torture King and Loss of Habeas Corpus for the truth on this issue.

The most important thing to know is that Americans can be labeled an enemy combatant and be stripped of our habeas corpus rights which means yes your government can torture you as well.

Do you people even understand terrorism?! Do you even understand what George W. Bush is up against?! Terrorists don't wear uniforms or take responsibility for their actions. When you catch them, they won't take responsibility for who they are or what they've done. They LIE! Don't you libs understand this? Probably not. To you, all anyone has to do is deny something, and even though you've caught them red handed you are too afraid to punish them because you might be wrong. Or you might be seen as "judgemental", which to a lib is the worst thing a person can be. Waterboarding is not torture. It causes discomfort but no lasting physical harm. What would you rather do, libs? Seriously, what is your solution? Stick them in a cell with 3 square meals a day and a prayer rug and hope they talk? Good God, now you say we can't even put them in a cold cell, and we can't even let a dog bark in their face because that might scare them... YEAH, THAT'S THE INTENTION! And to AthenaWolf: you claim you've protected your children and others children. I don't believe it. Most of the time you aren't going to catch someone in the act. Yes, it's real easy to dispense justice when the terrorist is right there in front of your face killing someone. What you libs have problems with is dispensing justice when you haven't seen the crime committed. I would waterboard a terrorist or a suspected terrorist in a second. Give me the rag and canteen.

Americans have become soft. Look at all the people on this board who are PROUD to be weak. Amazing. Most of you liberal whiny people condemning waterboarding don't know where your food comes from or how it gets to your plate, let alone how this country and the freedoms you enjoy came about. You think waterboarding is torture? Torture is when you take a rat and place it on someones stomach and place a mesh basket upside down over the rat, and then place hot coals on the basket. The rat has nowhere to go except straight down; thru you. If you want to know what torture is, read some Poe. Read some history. You people are weak, and you probably deserve to be slaves of the Islamo-fascists. They won't be as weak as you are when they kill your children to get you to submit or chop off your head like they did to Daniel Pearl.

Wouldn't it be a better standard if we made the politicians endure the act before they determined whether or not it is torture? I mean, not hours on end, but maybe a minute or two of this waterboarding thing and they would have a VERY different view of its efficacy. Have we as a global community learned nothing from the various eras of rampant torture? The intel extracted is 99% unusable, they will say ANYTHING to get it to stop. I'm first in line to hole the washcloth of Cheney, though. I called it.

1 honest question i think needs to be asked.

if some random started kidnapping us Americans (anywhere) and water boarding us, what would we honestly call that act and that person?

and we would be right.

and good for the u.n.
i didnt see such a creative censure of our hypocrisy coming.

Another interesting story. It gives people the knowledge to understand what this is all about. I am sure the enemy (terrorists) do much worse things to our people to get information.

I am grateful to Kaj for producing this and getting people to talk about torture.

It is interesting that the few people who are pro torture use religion and good vs evil as a cover for their fear and cowardice. I love my children too and I can, and have, defended them and other peoples children as well.

Torture does not fall under the category of defense. It is an act of bullies and cowards.

"For the greater good" is probably the worst phrase ever created. If you ever hear it used be extremely doubtful of the actual motives of the person saying it. It has been used to justify heinous crimes throughout history, including the torture of thousands of people.

A man under duress will confess anything, so all those saying that this is justified "because they're guilty" or "because they want to kill innocent people" ask yourself: how do you know? Is it because they confessed it under torture?

Do you know how many innocents are currently in Guantanamo Bay? An institution set up because they couldn't get what they wanted to do authorised on US soil. Nobody knows for sure how many innocents there are, because none of them are given fair trial. Over 60% the original detainees have been released, or cleared for release. How many of them underwent torture during their stay?

One of the convicts there was placed there because he was found in a Afghanistani prison. He was wrongly arrested in the first place, which is bad enough. But to be shipped to a torture camp because of it is just horrific.

Secondly to justify your actions by another's is not only childish, but only makes you look worse. If you find yourself breaking your moral code "For the greater good" ask yourself why you are actually doing it, whether it is actually to help, or for revenge, and why you are doing it.

Any Christian who supports this type of torture or any form of torture is a hypocrite and a threat to civilized society. The Fundy Christians like Pat Robertson, James Dobson and others who believe in it should try it out first before they easily open their homophobic mouths. Gawd do I hope the dems railroad you ugly bastards in the name of Jesus Christ.!

Couldn't believe the tortured guy could last 24 minutes!

SHAME on anyone who would not see this method for what it truly is.

two wrongs will never make a right. there is no justification for this tactic and there never will be.

this is nothing short of sick and the fact that some in this country would support this type of process simply shows how far we have fallen from grace.

DISGRACED by the POWERS THAT BE

OUR NATION MEANT FOR FAR GREATER AND NOBLE THINGS

The US Government reminds me of the Family Guy

I am a Respiratory Therapist. I can assure you that introducing any water in the lungs most likely will cause aspiration pneumonia. USA where everyone claims to be an expert by viewing short clips of video. WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE Mr Bush why don't we try it on you??? Maybe we can hear some clues as to WHO took over the USA in the last 7 years and why you did what you did??

Personally, I believe waterboaring to be a form of torture. However, I also believe... "and you're point?"

It is quite often the case that a true democracy will not be able to stand (for long) without remaining at the forefront in knowing its pitfalls, and potential challenges.

The world is not an easy place; not a forgiving place. It takes a cold heart, sometimes, to be able to prioritize and weigh the attack on evil by the just... the good. Even if this means spending time in evil's realm to stay ahead and keep it at bay; the greater good, as it were.

For the pure of heart... the believers... humanity "IS" about black and white/good and evil. And evil will ALWAYS prevail where good chooses not to become practively involved... even at costs.

My thoughts...
PCo-Jorge*

It's disturbing to imagine any of our government leaders would not label this practice as torture.

Would the naysayers submit their own children, father, or mother to this 'acceptable' act? Even considering it makes them unfit for public office.

I almost threw up watching this. Every time I hear the word waterboarding this graphic video will appear in my mind. I don't care what name you put on it, it's wrong. This is not what America stands for. In spite of evidence that torture does not produce correct information, people continue to do it anyway. But why? I read the comments from those who want to brutally punish those who torture and/or kill others. Maybe things like waterboarding are really done as a kind of revenge. Maybe revenge is at the root of this, but it's being done under the guise of trying to obtain information so it doesn't sound so heinous.

I don't know what leads people to do something so horrible, but I have an idea. Throughout history each side in a war has tried to portray the enemy as totally evil, remove all thought that the enemy are fellow human beings, and make them anonymous. We did in WWII with the "Japs" and the "Krauts" and in Vietnam with the "gooks." Once the young soldiers mind is convinced of this, the enemy is not seen as a fellow person. Several old soldiers have told me this and explained that this is why we drafted young impressionable men and why not many older guys are allowed to go to the front lines of battle.

It's a sad thing to accept, but there is a cost to freedom and the high morals that go with it. Sometimes we cannot catch the bad guys and sometimes people die as a result. Are we willing to sacrifice either one in an attempt to stop the bad guys? Do the attempts like torture work? How far will we go to make it work if our initial small steps don't work? When do we decide that we can't live with ourselves for what we have done?

Very convincing, this guy held up amazingly. I wasn't w/b'ed had a big snake wrapped around my head and neck while in a stocks. It didn't last that long but was pretty unpleasant, they took him off before he broke my neck which he almost did. I was SF, been a PI and received interrogation training. Torture doesn't work, anyone who understands interrogation knows that, a good interrogator can read a lot from a person's behavior and you have to do your homework BEFORE the investigation. Torture is interrogation by dummies.

"Coercive interrogation"? Waterboarding is most definitely torture! I agree, the U.S. government (and lapdog media) must stop their word games. By draining words of descriptive truth and emotional impact to obfuscate and confuse, they do American citizens great harm. Well-trained in this dark art by Reagan and Bush Sr., the mainstream media happily parrot this inaccurate and bloodless lingo. Such terminology only serves to misinform the overly busy public, to prevent protest by precluding a visceral response to language and attendant issues, and to offer up to the harried citizen yet another opportunity to tune out a hard-to-pin-down term. Bastardized, colorless language--which now seems the norm thanks to demonic Bush Jr. wunderkinder like Karl Rove--denies Americans full access to the great Democratic tradition of calling things by their proper names. How can we have town criers if we don't know what we're hollering about? Some words have a long history of impact. Say it out loud: "TORTURE". See what I mean? Did a zillion associations and even feelings flash in your mind or conscience? Now say this: "Coercive Interrogation". This Latinate name doesn't boil the blood at first -- unless you're savvy enough to know right away that it is torture in another rendering. If we can't get accurate language--and we must continue to fight for this--we then need more to-the-gut portrayals of what is really going on so we can judge for ourselves. For that reason, I appreciate the visceral nature of this report. This investigation, "Getting Waterboarded", doesn't just call a spade a spade, it shows the spade in its gory colors. We see here that waterboarding is torture. Clear as day.

re: "God would rather have us alive to do it; dead Christians are ineffective ones..."

Oh, I don't know about that. Jesus Christ was pretty into the whole CHRISTIAN thing and seems to have been quite effective using passive means and self-sacrifice to get his point across.

I just heard Kaj on NPR and wanted to find out what his video was demonstrating. Waterboarding is torture. Prof. Dershawitz (sp?) is really annoying. So he says waterboarding is torture, and sometimes torture is necessary, but you need a court order to do it (rough paraphrase). God! He really is annoying! His example: you've got a terrorist who just planted a nuclear device and you've got to torture its whereabouts out of him. Well....I think if he is that motivated to plant a bomb, he isn't worried about drowning. Prof. D is a great rationalizer.....makes me ill.

thanks Kaj for putting yourself thru this for our sake. it's obviously torture. What matters though is not the specific kind of torture, but that fact that we are using torture as a means to find critical information.

Kaj: First, thanks for doing that. I'm sure there are a large number of people out there who advocate this without actually knowing what it is.

Second, leaving any discussion of ethics aside, any technique that virtually guarantees a false confession is pointless, a waste of time & effort, and worst of all foolish as a means of gathering intelligence.

that's not torture, try giving a Muslim a ham sandwich and then talk to me.

My question about this form of "torture" or "interrogation" is this. Is there the possibility of dying under this type of interrogation method? How many other methods of interrogation are there that infuse corporal types of punishment to get someone to talk?

I felt physically ill while I was watching that. It's definitely torture.

actually rossb journalism is many things to many people but one thing it is not and never has been is unbiased. a true professional may try and stay as neutral as possible and represent all sides of a story, but we would not be human(e) or even logical not to draw draw some conclusions and empathize with one side or the other.. and when you are deciding your story not some editor, when you are in charge, your demeanor may look unbiased. you may act the purist but believe me you, you would not even open your mouth if you didnt have some feeling on the matter. so i suspect " the purpose" of this whole thing was to show that yes it is a horrible thing. and frankly i agree with you about not hamming it up. i think he did an excellent job with a very charged story. and if he would have acted, it would have defeated the purpose of rationally convincing the neigh sayers. so kudos kaj. you are a patriot. oh and rossb questioning and doubting your government is NOT hating america do NOT confuse this.and if you dont think we are trying to influence "things" what the hell do you think we are doing here? mastication? and leave our nation when it is in it's deepest crisis ever? dont think we haven't considered it. times are scary for anyone who speaks out against the current regime. and our freedoms are rapidly eroding. but a patriot. an american who feels a sense of civic duty. one who truly loves their country and their people could never leave just because they are the minority voice of reason in a world gone mad. or because the easily led piranha masses need violence. so sir the bleeding hearts are here to stay. this is our home and we will defend it with our very lives. but do not be confused that does not mean we are willing to go kill someone far away because they may someday be a threat.that is the logic of instinct, not intellect. and sir part growing up in a liberal bleeding heart household is learning to set aside baser instincts for thought. not rationalizing wrongs.

These are scary times. We're after oil, not weapons of mass destruction. Anyone with an I.Q. of 90 or over should realize this. We couldn't care less if the people of Iraq are free, and we couldn't care less if they have a democracy as long as that government cooperates with ours and sells us oil. I'd like to remind all the wacko's out there that are screaming self defense, that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. 9/11 was done by a radical muslim group known as the Al Qaeda, or has everyone already forgotten that. We went after Sadam, not the man responsible. Anyone know why? Oil!!! For fk sake, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, say it with me: B-L-A-C-K G-O-L-D!!!!!!!!!!! MILLIONS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH!!! If these people are being tortured, it's because they're getting between us and the oil (the treasure). Please, let's all get on the same page.

If it wasn't so blatant I would find it amusing that so many responses think the whole purpose of this piece was to somehow "indict" America and "prove" that this is such a horrible thing.

Isn't journalism suppose to be about representing the facts without bias so that everyone who here's, sees or reads the piece of reporting can draw their own conclusions? Hey, if after watching this you think it's wrong then fine, say so, but stop whining about how you think it should have been edited to better suit your argument in the first place...

I appreciate the fact that he went through this (actually paid to have it done) and showed it to the world.

I agree that we as a nation need to draw the line somewhere, but how about you bleeding heart liberals who hate America so much start loving America again and work towards influencing things rather than just blathering on about how horrible our nation is... If you really think we're so bad, how 'bout you renounce your citizenship and pick another country better suited to your beliefs and go call it home...

when we justify our actions by pointing out the actions of our enemies we become our enemies. if anyone has ever thought they were going to drown when they were learning to swim, then they know with a small amount of empathy that this is certainly torture.(mental as well as physical) the fact that it is open to debate shows just how far down that path we have gone. it's not about christian or degree, it's about harming another human being in your care. if they are prisoners then they are in the protective custody of the united states. not outside the law. not less than us or expendable.i am sick and tired of hearing scared people mouth the same platitudes that the nazi party did. hate doesnt sound any better from american mouths than it did from german. and fear of a world gone mad does not justify our actions. we are illegally and immorally detaining american and foriegn nationals at incredible rates. when will the fearful see that they are being led by deceivers that are nothing more than over-educated over-powered schoolyard bully's. just because our enemies are evil ( they have always been), just because they do not respect life, does not mean we can teach them to respect it by killing them or depriving them of the safety of their person. and if we forcibly detain dissenters then we kill the free flow of ideas that are our inherent checks and balances as a people. one of our greatest strengths is our diversity of ideas and of culture. (why is it that our current administration seems hell-bent on mono-culture? in everything from citizenry to corn?)if they attack us or our allies then we should defend ourselves. but to falsely attack another nation and then point the finger at all their evil is well to put it mildly hypocritical. to run around detaining everyone in sight who may be a dissenter and then torturing them until they say things you want to hear or that will incriminate them and make their kidnapping and torture look justified to frightened voters, is reprehensible.not only should we impeach bush,cheney,and rice. but we should turn them over to a world court to be tried for crimes against humanity.
I for one do not believe that we need to adopt these evil practices to overcome them. down that path lie's darkness. dont let your fear guide your thoughts. emancipate yourselves from mental slavery.

Anybody who does not think that waterboarding is tourture..let me tie you down, cover your face, and constantly dump water on you...You have to be an ignorant and selfish person to not think that this is wrong...As an American it brings shame because two wrongs dont make a right...Its like whats the point of having the FBI, The Military, The CIA, Police, and other forms of law enforcement if all I have to do is waterboard someone?..Its their job to find out whats going on in a manner where it is conducive and effective without using any form of violence (unless needed) its called INTELLIGENCE people...

It may be the "morally correct answer," but that doesn't make it the "right answer." It would be foolish to sacrifice 99 people because you'd feel bad about shooting one.

This is most definitely torture...but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be practiced. It isn't exactly popping off fingernails with bamboo shoots, or an iron maiden; after all, it doesn't really involve physical damage. If it's that effective, and it can save lives, then I say it's a fair compromise.

This world is definitely NOT a happy-go-lucky Utopia, even if tons of people, dwelling in relatively pampered 1st World Countries, are under the mistaken impression that everybody is filled with butterflies and giggles.

Also, agreed with what Tori said about the supposed need for "dramatization" some folks have been blubbering about.
It didn't need to be dramatized; that would have completely cheapened the pod. It totally got the point across, and presented all the information needed for the viewer to draw a well-informed opinion on water-boarding.

If you want to watch a smut film, go somewhere else.

This is not torture? Fine, then let's see the policymakers (not the interrogators) undergo this procedure as a mandatory learning experience before being permitted to sign off on it as being a lawful practice.

It goes back to the old philosophical dilemma: If 100 people are taken prisoner, and a kidnapper tells you that unless you shoot one of the prisoners all of them will die, should you shoot the prisoner?

The "morally correct" answer is: no.

It was so interesting to me to hear people react to Kaj laughing at the end of the piece. Knowing Kaj personally, it had never struck me as weird the he laughed, nor that Mitch did... These are two really tough guys who have been through a lot and have, I believe, learned that laughing is often the only thing you can do when you find yourself in a sh*tty situation.

I don't think the pod needed any dramatization from Kaj at the end. If that didn't look totally horrible to you, I fear your perception is skewed.

The point of this piece was to be honest to the American people about what waterboarding looks like for once. If Kaj had acted at the end of it, that would have, in my opinion, defeated the whole purpose of going through that awful process (again).

It shouldn't decrease its weight that he lasted as long as he did. He explains he's trained, he's done this before. It's explained that most people last only a few minutes. Doesn't your discomfort grow with every ticking second? Which means that if he had stopped it after a few minutes, it would have been uncomfortable. But letting it go as long as they could stand?...it was torturous for me just watching it. Which was the point - the viewer was allowed to come to their own conclusions.

What happened to the constitution? You know the one our forefathers lived by.
Bush has already shown himself to be immoral and unjustified in his actions, allowing our troops to do this to another human being just pushes him right over the edge of anything ethical and responsible. What is wrong with these people anyway to do this? Sick minds condoning even sicker minds.

If we torture to defend ourselves, we become something that is not worth defending.

And if it's not really torture, perhaps Bush would like to volunteer to be waterboarded on camera, too, just to show that it's not that bad...

Kaj is a very tough kid and has a knack for making the difficult look easy. Yeah! He knows it's a "controlled" situation but he let it go on for 24 minutes for realistic purposes. Let some of the viewers who think this is not torture step up to this act and try it. Kaj may be "James Bond" but his real mission is to help all of us make up our own minds by bringing torture into the light of reality and out of the wishy washy academic debate of those people speculating on whether Waterboarding is bonafide torture.Cheers for Kaj and current tv.

And it is already known that torture is not effective in eliciting credible information and actually puts our own troops in danger. In the case of the torturers in our government, it is simply a tool of psychological control, intimidation, and fear. Wow, a phrase I never thought I would type... torturers in our government. And they're still there. This is not what America should stand for. Bush and his entire crew should be tried for war crimes.

This is truly barbaric. Why can't they charge George W. Bush with war crimes? If anyone should be tried for crimes against humanity it has to be George W.

just got mentioned on lou dobbs on cnn

H-I-P-P-I-E-S! That's what you nonsensical morons are who are so worried about these "people's rights." They don't have rights as far as I'm concerned when they are out to kill innocent people as their main objective, and make no mistake, that's what they're out to do; they deserve to be water-boarded.

This is so unbelievably ridiculous. how would this not be considered torture? I am ashamed to call myself an americaN. The world we live in is so messed up!

Very powerful and well-done until the end... Why did you have to laugh so much about it?! For me, your laughing completely destroyed the authenticity of what you apparently endured. Still, it's remarkable to me that anyone, citing any higher authority or god, would condone such treatment of another human being. Book me on the first trip to another planet...

Great pod. I've heard from my SF buddy that they do some crazy stuff to them during training. Those same SEAR officers put them through POW simulations that include water boarding and crawling through cold mud and razor wire naked.

I agree with using such practices as this. I despise that people are out there who disagree with it when the lives of my kids and their kids are ultimately at stake. I could care less what they do to the terrorists or sympathisers with terrorist activities if it will insure the future safety of my children. I would be for cutting off fingers, toes, and anything else in a long, torturous process that leads to either death or the desired information the interrogators are looking for. The objective is to get the scumbags to talk, this is not a tea-party, it's a war with a vicious and cruel enemy; do any of the bleeding hearted hippies out there actually think they wouldn't or do not torture and/or kill American prisoners? We have to show them that we will get as low as they want to go, before they will see that we mean business, and that we are as determined to win this war as they are. This is a game of chicken, like it or not, and WE MUST WIN! I want my children to live and I mean live in safety, and without pansy political correctness getting in the way; the only way to approach a war is to win at all costs. "Moral high-ground" counts for nothing when you're dead. I think if we are to pass on our ethics and Christian values, God would rather have us alive to do it; dead Christians are ineffective ones, and I don't see a problem with war and killing as long as it's in self-defense or preemptive to preserve our way of life and our children's lives. Furthermore, I think God looks at it the same way; there are justifiable wars in the Bible and even King David, a man after God's own heart was a man of war, but not just a man of war, he was multifaceted just like we are. We have to do what it takes to survive.

oh but where does one draw the line? and is brutal torture the only way to get information...or is it just revenge.

As a Libertarian, I belive in liberties denied us by both the left and right, but common sense must prevail.

Consider, during WWII S/S troops fired on sight at American soldiers, and tortured us at will. So did the Japanese, beheading men with glee. Now we have Al Quida also taking pleasure in beheading innocents.

If anybody had info that would prevent the 9/11 disaster, or the Morrow Bld. horror, and refused to provide it, I would personally hook a wire to their nuts, and there would be no shortage of Americans wiling to plug it in the socket. Only until you gave up the necessary info! Not to merely torture for pleasure, as our enemies have always done to us!

By the way, Don't be a knee-jerk reactionary for either party.

YES

..permanently damaging, savage, degrading, and blatantly immoral. Would he cover this by calling it 'an interview method'?

stop the bullshit G W Bush

All I can say is that there has to a point that everyone must open there eyes. I watch your channel and tell everyone I can about it. Due to the non sensureship of the channel. Today i cry for my country. plz spread this pod, we all need to know the truth of our (or used to be) country. thank you

I just can't believe that America is now wearing this crown of shame. The only reason I can sleep at night is knowing I didn't vote for this evil, but they took over anyway. Under the Clinton administration, I might have condoned this sort of torture, because I know it wouldn't happen except under the most extreme circumstances, but now I just don't know. I'm disgusted. I feel cheated. I feel helpless, but justice will prevail? I pray that the rest of the world won't forget the goodwill of the millions of Americans who have strived to help the rest of the world. It's a shame that one bad apple can do so much damage.

Really intense piece. Pretty horrifying; I was cringing during much of the pod at how much Kaj was putting up with.

Nicely done and put together segment.

this is awesome. it is amazing how things like this occur. you've got guts to try this. although, i think it is important to really understand a story or issue by becoming this involved yourself. as a journalist...i view this as true journalism. its passion in its finest and i really appreciate it.

First of all, torture should be in no way condoned by the us government. It is permanently damaging, degrading, and downright immoral. Second, why do we put ourselves in situations that would even cause us to think of using torture? We need to make peace and form relations with other countries. The founding fathers tell us not to get ourselves tangled in things that we don't need to. Why don't we listen?

Great POD.

This "simulation" actually hurts the argument against torture because you have portrayed waterboarding in such a tame manner that most ignorant people will think the real technique isn't that bad. You have to do phase 3: wrap cellophane around the face, poke a hole in it, then poor the water in. Showing you last for 24 minutes, and then laughing afterwards is an extreme media distortion of the truth, and a disservice to the public.

You had a credible documentary right up until Der"show"itz showed up. It is he and his fellow travelers that have put us in this position in the first place. Of all the hipocracy!

We are becoming the monsters that we claimed to be fighting. It is terribly heartbreaking. The overwhelming majority of human beings suffering this fate are innocent and have no information to provide yet we torture them for months and years, make them sleep in cold, dark rooms, beat them and deprive them of any human comfort. We have become the enemy of the world and need a new leader to lead us out of this dark, saddening time.

Thank you for actually SHOWING US what this "term" waterboarding is. Still, we must admit this was a very HYGENIC version. In this instance the subject definitely KNEW he would be fine at the end. BIG difference from the average person who is subjected to this. Many HAVE actually died. It is NOT a controlled environment. Many disappear. The screaming by the torturers ( US ?!?) at the subject was not even hinted at in this example. It's truly far worse than this, and yet ... this was such an eye-opener. How can ANY politician ( or decent human ) try to justify this, on the back of a hypothetical "what if ..." scenario. I'm disgusted, and ashamed .

Al Gore ... We NEED you to be our next President. For this and SO many other reasons.

Yeah, Kaj, I mean, like, you totally should have made the experience scary, dude. You lasted 24 minutes of EXTREME TORTURE dude! And then you laughed at the end of it! Twice! This doesn't help us one BIT to condemn the practice in the public eye! Would a little bit of acting like it was a really terrible experience hurt anyone? NO! And it would have made our point that this is a HORRENDOUS ACT! I mean, yeah, the dudes in the black masks were a little scary, and the yelling and all, but no way this looked like real torture. Now we look at it and think, "this isn't so bad after all". Please, please, PLEASE - do the video again and this time put a little more TERROR in it! Thanks.

President Bush and members of his administration are guilty of war crimes as outlined in tenets of the geneva convention and the United Nations. Permitting and endorsing forms of torture such as waterboarding represents a policy that is morally reprehensible and criminal according to international law. Our current President could be tried in an international court of law for war crimes and sent to prison. This alone should be reason enough to call for his impeachment. What has happened to the moral compass of our country? Have we been so jaded and accustomed to the lies and misdirection of current administration that we can turn a blind eye to the support of morally reprehensible and criminal behavior?

Just read Naomi Klein's Shock Syndrome book. The whole nine yards and the dots connected. Read it if you haven't. Thank you very much for this public service. I have given up on network TV.

This is T>O>R>T>U>R>E! Period! Wonder if they will also do this to a woman? Also the real point of this. To get what you want to hear? Of course people will agree and sign wherever they have to in order not feel injured! This a new way of FACISM call tortute something else!

One of the most powerful pods I have ever seen -

THanks Current!

What many people fail to consider is: What have they done to others and in a far more violent way? I am not saying it is right to torture, I am saying that I can't feel sorry for them. They still are killing Innocent people or are accessorys to the act.

We tried the hearts and minds crap in Viet Nam, what did it get us? Why is it that when these killers and murders yell "unfair or foul" every bleeding heart comes to their aid. No one speaks out for thier victims!

If it might save a innocents life, I am for it. In order to warrant Human Rights, you must first show mercy and repect human rights. These fanatics do neither.

When I first heard he was going to undergo the waterboarding, I thought, this is ten times more ridiculous than reporters who feel the need to stand IN the hurricane to talk about it... but it was horrifying and fascinating to watch. Thanks for going through it. Everyone should have to watch it before forming an opinion on America's stance on torture.

LOVE the editing. Cutting a piece on torture like an episode of '24'...brilliant.

"For centuries, interrogators used water to cause pain in two ways, "pumping" and "choking." Pumping involves forcibly filling the stomach and intestines with water. A garden hose in the mouth is sufficient. This technique (the "Tormento de Toca" in Spanish) was one of the most fearful tortures of the Inquisition. Choking pushes pumping one step further by preventing breathing.

Americans were the first to use pumping for interrogation in the 20th century. In 1902, during the Spanish-American War, U.S. soldiers put funnels in the mouths of Filipinos to force water into their organs. In pumping, victims' organs stretch and convulse, causing the most intense pain that visceral tissue can experience. William Howard Taft, governor of the Philippines, carelessly conceded to the Senate that pumping was the policy in some cases.

Because water torture left few marks, it was easy to dismiss. President Theodore Roosevelt privately called pumping a mild torture, observing that no one had been seriously damaged. Italian dictator Mussolini's police adopted pumping in the 1920s, as did the Japanese military police (Kempeitai) in the 1930s. In 1939, British police used pumping in Mandatory Palestine."

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2004/06/18/torture_methods/