Creation Museum

NO! There isn''t. There is no room in an astronomy class for astrology as an alternative "theory". Same with Chemistry vs Alchemy.

Evolution is based on observation & fact. It is also capable of predicting results which can be verified by further experiment.

None of the above is possible with Creationism. The people promoting it are guilty of fraud & promoting a big lie. They should be prosecuted & shut down. It''s only their appeal to religious belief which is giving them a pass at the moment because it''s an unwritten law that you don''t question a person''s religious belief, even when there is no evidence for the belief.

It''s time we called them on their assertions & forced them to present their evidence for true scientific scrutiny.

TedS

this museum disgusts me and it scares me that there are so many people out there so brainwashed by this LIE, this ABSOLUTE LIE....that one woman summed it up perfectly, you just have to laugh about it to keep from crying.

How the hell did this 27 million dollar lie get built?

It is not ok to "believe what you want to believe". Believing something that is not true is called denial.

Passing these outrageous lies to your children is barbaric, diminutive, and completely irresponsible.

Thank God! It''s about time Christians used their collective voice and ''offended'' some of those loud mouth liberals! I''m orchestrating a road trip with my local church''s teen group -- and can''t wait to see how we can build one in our city.

Christians have had to sit back and listen to liberal opinions for years, it''s time they hear our tangible truths for a change!

I think it is ridiculous the everyone is making such a big fuss over the museum. The people who visit it want their children to believe that the Creationist point of view really happened and no matter what you say or do, you won''t swing their convictions.

It is plausible that both Creationism and Evolution happened. It can co-exist as long as people aren''t so argumentative about it.

Let people believe what they want to believe and let them be.

If it were a museum devoted to Creationism with Allah and the Islamic version, no one would be bitching and complaining about it then because they would be afraid to offend someone. Everyone always thinks its ok to pick on the Christians......WELL ITS NOT!

Get over yourselves. It''s not like they are forcing you to go to the museum.


Savannah

If it offends you...don''t go. I do believe in the creation of this earth and I don''t pitch a fit every time a teacher crams evolutionism down my throat...they would laugh in my face if I did. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we as a nation know that but when it comes down to articulating or expressing that opinion people seem to have a problem? i dont understand...

To say Creationism is a *tangible* truth is flawed. I always hear the "Well science is *flawed* and can be proven wrong so it''s worthless" - therefor I should make "faith" into scientific truth? I just think it''s an easy copout for ignorance. How can you dismiss carbon dating, the age of dinosaurs with a belief of "six days"? Is the contradiction making your head hurt?

Also, the view that if one is not God-fearing it will make you moralless and debauch is wrong - before monotheism was mainstream, faith and your civil duty and moral code were separate- one did not expect your religion to answer all questions or give you a code to live by (Greek Philosophy, China''s Confucianism, for example).

You have your faith, I have mine. Creation stories, as I see it are a metaphor for humans - take the creation stories of the Norse with Ginnungagap, Audhumla and Ymir for example. Many people in alternative and Reconstructionists religions are able to fit scientific thought into their beliefs and accept science as fitting perfectly with their views.

Just utterly disgusting, and to present it as "truth" is pathetic and ignorant. I agree with what one of the interviewee said "Look, just because you believe in something, you can''t present it as truth" I''m sorry, but in science there is no space for "beliefs" only observation and experimentation without the subjectivity of religion or otherwise.

Look, if you''re a christian, fine I don''t care, you believe what you believe. But when trying to cram that belief to the rest of the world, and present it as truth, which is exactly what this museum is doing, you''re crossing the line. What will happen next? a museum on creation according to aboriginal tribes in africa? Korea? China? the norse tribes of europe? Look it''s one thing to present something as a belief, and another completely different one to try and present that belief as truth. What''s really sick about all this is that you''re letting your beliefs govern your life and your mentality to the point to where you''re not even willing to study the facts unless they agree with you, and you''re poisoning your kids along with it.

If you want to talk about Evolution promoting an amoral society and debauchery, please look no further than your own priests whom had been found taking advantage of LITTLE BOYS! Can you say "pot, meet kettle"?

Get off your damn self righteous cloud, stop being so damn self absorbed and for christ sake take a look at what you''re doing to your kids! Teach them your religious belief if you want to, fine! but have the decency to distinguish belief and subjectivity, from observation and objectivity.

QUOTED By: TedS
"NO! There isn''t. There is no room in an astronomy class for astrology as an alternative "theory". Same with Chemistry vs Alchemy.

Evolution is based on observation & fact. It is also capable of predicting results which can be verified by further experiment.

None of the above is possible with Creationism. The people promoting it are guilty of fraud & promoting a big lie. They should be prosecuted & shut down. It''s only their appeal to religious belief which is giving them a pass at the moment because it''s an unwritten law that you don''t question a person''s religious belief, even when there is no evidence for the belief.

It''s time we called them on their assertions & forced them to present their evidence for true scientific scrutiny.

TedS "
Look no further than this, this man speaks truth!

I think what bothers me most about this, is that christians don''t realize the HUGE insult they are giving not just to the scientific community, but to people of other faiths as well. They''re basically making the statement that all other cultures around the world are basically WRONG just because of the christian belief, it''s like saying "Yeah we know that there''s freedom of religion and what not, but you''re wrong. What''s that? you still believe in the dragon Tiamat that created the world? yeah that''s your belief, but you''re wrong." What''s that? you believe in the goddes shiva from hindu belief? That''s fine, but you''re wrong. We''re right because we have a nice spiffy museum that says we''re right." jesus can I ask that someone resurrect Martin Luther (the bishop from europe, not Mr. King) and start another revolt against the self righteous, self absorbed individuals that started this?

At least scientists and real museums have enough decency to say, "Well this is the tribe of XYZ from ABC and while studying, we found that THIS IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN..." or "THIS IS WHAT THEIR RELIGIOUS CEREMONIES CONSISTED OF..." They''re not so narrow minded as to say "they''re wrong" they simply say "this is what they believe in..." and they leave it at that. This museum is simply crossing the line because it''s trying to make a bold statement trying to present a BELIEF as FACT and we all know that beliefs are subjective, not objective.

Look, the christians want a place like this, fine, but call it what it is, don''t call it a museum, call it an attraction, or call it "a study into the christian religion/belief" but don''t try and associate it with fact and scientific objectivity when there is none in creationism. Creationism is the theory trying to present itself as fact, not evolution. Evolution is fact and it has been prove numerous times now.

this is ridiculous. it angers me beyond belief.

read my blog about it here:
link

It is a shame that so many people can believe that the whole universe and all that is in it was just one big accident, just a random happening, that arranged itself in perfect order. I''ll put my faith in an all powerful Creator that has made it all and keeps it all in motion. Someday we will all know the "How" and the "Why". Until then if you''ve only looked at the physical world through the eyes of science your missing a third of the equation. The intellect of doubting Thomas believed only when he saw and touched the One who rose from the dead. God said that those who believed in Him without seeing or touching were blessed. Spend some time finding your Spirit man and see the world in a new way.
Peace, Joe

The fact that you think that evolution was all "just an accident" as you put it, shows how little you really know about evolution, and shows how little you really know about the argument at hand. Read the posts again, better yet, read more on evolution (not the simplified version from school, heck, pick up "the beautiful universe" by stephen hawkins I believe) then come back and see if you can still argue that the world is 6000 years old, and that the bible is the be all end all of all arguments.

and who are these "many" as you speak of? upi make it sound like evolutionists are supposed to be a "majority angry mob" when it''s the opposite that is true.

To use your own words Bayonne Joe, It''s a shame that so many people think they HAVE to believe in a higher power in order to give meaning to their lives, to "behave morally" (although ask the priests that took advantage of young boys and tell me how that is moral behavior). It is a shame that so many people feel they need to have a higher power monitor their behavior and promises of an after life. That they HAVE to BELIEVE because they can''t decide for themselves what is right or wrong.

I used to be like you, I used to be very catholic thanks to my upbringing, but once I saw the craziness, the hypocrisy, once I researched all the deaths that were done all thanks to religion, and all the violence that occurs to this day thanks to religion, I didn''t want to associate myself with them at all. Yes I know not everyone is like that, but it doesn''t change the fact.

I don''t need a church, or 2 tablets with ten commandments, or a threat of eternal damnation to tell me that I have to behave good. That sort of black mail is disgusting and shameful. I do my good deeds not because of god, not because of the bible, not because my priest says so, I do it because it is the right thing to do. But I''m getting a little off topic now. Again, this is not what the argument is, it''s the fact that they are bastardizing the meaning of what a museum is (a bastion of truth and real scientific research) and changing it to support a subjective, unscientific BELIEF system.

As for your doubting tomas "blessed are those that believe..." yadda yadda yadda, please don''t make me laugh, every major religion that I know of outside of buddhism has a similar clause, it also has the " if you don''t believe in us, then you''re against us and you will be eternally damned" only phrased differently, and yes I know the bible has this clause, it''s in revelations.

I find it interesting that everyone who does not believe in creationism/ID (depending whom one speaks with) is labeled as "loud mouth liberals" (post by hazybuck). This is a basic defense used to attack the character/perception of another when one does not have a good argument. It is know as an ad hominem fallacy. Wikipedia defines an ad hominem fallacy as "consist[ing] of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim" (Wikipedia Ad hominem article). Instead, try presenting an actual argument.

Also, many creationists/ID''s believe evolution is random chance, a big accident. This shows a gross ignorance of evolution. If this is your view of evolution, please take the time to learn what you wish to debase. There are many great books/textbooks that will give you some insight. I suggest "The Making of the Fittest" by Sean B. Carroll as a good starting point. I was at one time a Christian, so I understand the serious misconceptions of evolution taught by pastors and other leaders within the church. I do not know if the distortion is intentional or ignorance. The latter may be quickly cured by research and a desire to understand evolution. I fear it is a mix of both.

The controversy over the Creation Museum has nothing to do with someone holding their own beliefs. It has everything to do with passing pseudo-science as science. I have never seen astrology taught as science along side with astronomy. This is because one is science, astronomy, and one is pseudo-science, astrology. Science is based upon factual evidence, which is peer reviewed, and, most importantly, testable and repeatable. It can be used to explain events and the mechanics thereof, as well as prediction. Evolution is accepted as fact within the scientific community. It is supported by overwhelming evidence, in fact DNA forensics is producing uncontroversial evidence for evolution in staggering amounts. I am waiting to see the argument against the DNA evidence. No one seems to have a problem with DNA being used in court as proof of murder, or the exoneration of the falsely accused. It will be interesting to hear an argument against DNA evidence.

I also love the evolution is just a theory attack. This also shows a gross ignorance for how science operates. I hate to break it to you, gravity is just a theory as well. I have not seen anyone jumping off a building saying "its just a theory..." Once again, before one wishes to debase science, learn about it first.

Lastly, morals without god. Why do people think without a god people can do what ever they wish. This is simply not true. I am atheist. I am also a very moral individual. Once claim is without god telling us what is moral, there can be no morals. Ethics is the study of morality. There are basic rights each individual possesses. Some are, freedom, life, etc.. Also, making society a better place is recognized as a good; this is not argued. Lets look at an example of morality without god. Murdering an individual violates his/her basic right to life. Another example, people have an innate desire to help others. This is in fact seen within all intelligent animals. If one sees an individual suffering she/he will have an innate desire to help. The entire notion that without god there is no incentive to be moral, and society will collapse is ignorant and false. Also, I find it disturbing that the existence of hell is used as a significant incentive to be moral. If all that is keeping you moral is the threat of hell, then I wish to keep as much distance from you as possible. Rule via fear is not only immoral but damaging to everyone.

This is amazing.

What are your views on the museum? I think it should remain open, I don't see a problem unless students are forced to go there with a public school.