I'm Finally Over Kobe
- added October 17, 2007
- 28 responses
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- AROC
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- Sports (4599)
- Basketball (276)
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- Kobe Bryant (24)
- Los Angeles Lakers (22)
- Lakers (19)
- Sedale Threatt (2)
- Jerry Buss (1)
Kobe I have stuck by you too long now. As a true Laker fan I will back any player that dons that uniform with one caveat. You gotta respect the team man. The team that I love. SIR! You have disrespected the team, organization, city, fans and most importantly me who stuck with you. WHYYYY. Why why why, I cry. Why? We gave you the team, the coach, the contract and stuck by you through a sex scandal when nobody wanted to touch you. Now you want to leave. Well good riddance and bon voyage. I would rather go through another dark age of Laker Basketball (think Cedric Ceballos and Nick Van Exel years) then have to put up with you "demanding" to be traded or acting like you could ever win a championship without another superstar.
So Jerry you now have my permission to banish this self-righteous punk. But this time when you trade the best player in the league at least get the best player on the other team! Or find a way to get the Diesel back.
So Jerry you now have my permission to banish this self-righteous punk. But this time when you trade the best player in the league at least get the best player on the other team! Or find a way to get the Diesel back.
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I've never liked Kobe. He's too full of himself. Basketball is a team sport, and I think he is better suited for individual sports. Maybe he should stick to one on one competitions or something where his bad attitude can't hurt those around him.
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A different perspectiveAROC - take it easy partner. Check out Mark Heisler's take from today's LA Times. This is just as much Buss' fault as it is Kobe's. Really. And I LOVE Dr. Buss! But this situation was in the process of deescalation when Buss had to go public. Bad move. This will blow over in time...if anyone can make this all better its Phil. Remember the state of chaos the Bulls teams were always in, but somehow they found ways to win titles? We gotta give the Kobester and this team a chance. They were on their way to a great season last year when injuries destroyed them and they never got their groove back. If everyone stays reasonably healthy this year, we'll be in good shape to win 50 games.
(put the Darth Kobe pic down and back away slowly) -
Personally, I think it's funny how people criticize Kobe for what I think is bad team management. He needs to be more considerate and thoughtful and supportive of his teammates. He doesn't need to play any different or be loyal to an owner that wants to trade him. People act like they have never worked for companies that made bad decisions, yet they quit their jobs for something better.
Kobe could keep his mouth shut and play "team" ball and let upper management make mediocre decisions....but then he would just end up like Kevin Garnett did with the Timberwolves....consistantly missing the playoffs. -
Thanks for keeping me in check jsaraco. Couple notes,
1. Great picture right?
2. The Bulls and Phil could run the triangle offense and had MJ. no comparisons can even be discussed at this point but i won't go into that now
3. What we NEED is the otha Jerry back. West I say. He built the Shaq/Kobe/Phil dynasty and is the only one that I can think of that can keep these egos in check.
4. If he's back I'll back him because I made a vow long ago and must stay loyal.
Hell, i still gotta signed Payton, Malone, Bryant, O'Neal jersey hanging in my studio so... -
Well time for me to join in the Lakers/Kobe bashing. I am a Kobe hater to the Nth degree, but it is not all Kobe's fault here.
The Lakers are first at fault for not taking a trade with Phoenix 5 years ago when they offered Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion for Kobe Bryant. IDIOTS!!! I'm sure a team of Shaq, Kidd, Marion, Malone and Payton would have done a hell of a lot better than the ones you had with Kobe and then the inevitable split of the superstars that all knew was coming at some point. Well Shaq went on and won a championship with another team and Kobe, well you get what you deserve.
Here is my main problem with Kobe supporters. He's a freaking liar and you know it, yet you keep believing everything he says. He lied in Colorado. He lied about his relationship and involvement in the Shaq trade (hello holding out as a free agent until they deal Shaq is being involved), he lied about his conversation and apology with Bynum at the end of this summer, he lied about cleaning out his locker yesterday, (according to Phil all that remains in Kobe's locker is a book and a net) and he will continue to lie because he is a childish, spoiled sob. Get it through your thick skulls Kobe fans. He's doesn't play well with others (name one instance he has). He has never shown one ounce of maturity or dedication to anything other than himself.
Flame away blind Kobe fans. Flame away. -
beclark, I watched 82 out of 82 games every season from 2000 to 2007. Shaq stoppped working.....and Kobe was sick of passing the ball to him and watching him miss lay-ups, get fouled and then miss his free throws. Shaq was traded, got mad and then got motivated. Just like Kobe will do when he gets traded. Are you even a Laker fan...why do you care? I doubt you have watched a 5th of the laker games I have this decade. Your opinion is quite reminiscent of a non basketball playing sports critic.
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FIBA World Championships@beclark - its good to back in discussions with you about things you clearly don't know about. (see our epic Bonds threads)
Did you pay attention to latest installment of the Dream Team that just rolled through everyone to win the gold in the FIBA World Championships this past summer? Kobe was easily the best player on the court at all times, on both sides of the ball. Everything written & said was nothing but positive. Coach K practically knighted him. All of his teammates gushed when talking about him.
I think that counts for playing well with others, right? -
well Blove don't cry when you look at these stats for the championship series that the Lakers lost to Detroit which I have blamed on Kobe and yet you say he was teh only one playing well. I have long said that Shaq was dominating that series, but Kobe would refuse to pass him the ball and instead jack up bad shots over and over. Enjoy the numbers:
Game 1:
Kobe - 10-27
Shaq - 13-16
Game 2:
Kobe - 14-27 (his best game)
Shaq - 10-20
Game 3:
Kobe - 4-13
Shaq - 7-14
Game 4:
Kobe - 8-25
Shaq - 16-21
Game 5:
Kobe - 7-21
Shaq - 7-13
Total:
Kobe - 43-113 (38.0%)
Shaq - 45-84 (53.5%)
The sad part is that most of Shaq's attempts would come in the first half and then Kobe would then just stop passing the ball to him. Notice in game two, which they won, he did take a lot of shots, but his percentage was way better and oh yeah he had 7 Assist in that game which was his high for the series by far. The offense opens up and is easier when you distribute the ball which is something that has been hammered at him for years, but he just doesn't get it.
Oh well as for the trying to call me out B on my playing skills, I'm sorry but I don't play against cripples. They call you Mr. Glass not for your rebounding. -
@jsaraco
You are right. Basing his reputation off a summer of playing against pathetic south american teams with nothing but all-stars on your team is the way we should judge Kobe instead of the 10 years of his NBA career. -
Don't forget that Malone was hurt for that series...and that The Artist Formerly Known as Gary Payton was absolutely awful. There's a reason why Chauncey Billups became Mr Big Shot in that series and Rashweed just ran free.
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Beclark, you base your fasle statement on one series? hmmm! O well, I guess some people watch the game and some people enjoy the drama based around it. Are you a Laker fan by the way? Just curious.
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beclark, please show us the shot chart for that series.
PLEASE -
@beclark - when has Kobe shown that he wasn't a good teammate? Don't good teammates do everything they can to win the damn game? Didn't Kobe sacrifice his game for the benefit of the team? The Shaq/Kobe teams had the right mix of talent that allowed Kobe to be a complete player, rather than just a scorer. Since Shaq was traded (by his own fault mind you...why would the Lakers want to pay him $35M a year when he's 37 and only capable of playing 30 games a year at a probable pace of 11.1 ppg and 5.4 rpg??) who on this current team could possibly carry the load and allow Kobe to do all the other things he's capable of?
Remember the 81 point game? Do you know why he scored 81 in that game? Two reasons:
1) He HAD to or they weren't going to win.
2) He could
Do you remember that crazy streak when he averaged 40+ points a game? Do you know why he went on that crazy scoring streak? Two reasons:
1) He HAD to or they weren't going to win.
2) He could -
The boxscores and moreI am not a Lakers fan. I actually used to be a Shaq hater many years ago and then grew to appreciate him and his game much more over the years. I am a Phil Jackson fan though and I did enjoy watching the Lakers when they were good, including the whole 80's run and even in the first few years of Shaq/Kobe/Phil years. It helped that I hate the Pistons so I had to cheer for the Lakers in those series.
As for the shot chart I'm not sure how to post those all here, but I'll look into finding them and posting if I have time.
Oh and as for basing my views of Kobe on one series that isn't true either, it was just the one we have argued about before and I felt like this was a good time to bring it up again. -
jeez...look at Payton's line from that box score. And notice that Devean George started in place of the injured Malone. I rest my case.
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@jsaraco
When has Kobe shown not to be a good teammate?
1. The time he attacked a teammate physically at practice.
2. Colorado - nothing like throwing a teammate under the bus when you are going down
3. The game he refused to take a shot in the first half like a petulant child.
4. The holding the Lakers for ransom until they got rid of Shaq
5. The trashing of Mitch and Bynum on the tape at the end of this season
6. The going on radio show after radio show and trashing the organization and saying he wants out, no in, no out, no in, no....
7. The endless lies to everyone that none of you have defended
8. The facts that I've never heard a teammate say, genuinely that they enjoy playing with Kobe
9. The fact that Garnett (who says so himself) was going to come to LA (a deal on the table - that in the end McHale wouldn't make), but Garnett then didn't want to come b/c of the way Kobe was acting.
And so...
The key is that others don't like playing with him and no one, NO ONE is openly fighting to come to LA to play with him. The only ones who want to are the ones that haven't ever played with him for a season on a real team and not some summer FIBA league.
Are you getting pissed off enough yet Kobe lovers. Ok well let me ask you this:
When Kobe leaves are you going to be Lakers' fans or Kobe fans? -
Sooo..........if I remember correctly, didn't St Michael punch teammates? Steve Kerr showed up with a black eye. I think Will Purdue caught one too. The point is, that stuff happens on teams - always has and always will.
Some points to clear up:
- Shaq got himself traded. Period. As much as I loved him, it drove me crazy that he was always out of shape and took training camp off and only played in maybe 60-70% of the games during the season. Phil begged him to lose weight every year and he wouldn't do it and always had nagging dumb injuries as a result. As I stated before, why would the Lakers want to use more than 1/3rd of their payroll on an aging center? They did the right thing by trading him when they did, even if Odom doesn't end up working out. The real mistake they made was trading Caron Butler for dumbass Kwame Brown. A trio of Kobe, Odom & Butler would be looking pretty good right about now.
- the trashing of Mitch & Bynum was stupid, but spot on.
- last time you had dinner with Rick Fox, Horry, Odom, Luke Walton, etc... did they tell you how much they hated him or are you coming to your own conclusions?
- get your facts straight re: KG. He specifically talked about the front office being a mess which it kind of is right now. Jerry West would never have let all this nonsense go on.
- I will however agree on one - throwing Shaq under the bus in Colorado was inexcusable and unforgivable. There. We can find common ground.
Trust me, there's no saltiness here. I enjoy disputing your obviously uninformed incorrect opinions. The level of misguided Kobe hate by so many people never ceases to amuse me. -
beclark, I am curious...who would be an outstanding player to you? Who should Kobe be like in the NBA?
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Kobe should punch Will Perdue, too...... -
I'll take it from here thanks. Great responses all around. Kobe is, in my mind the best in the league right now. Leading scorer, first team all-d (which he has done for a while now) great passer when need be but I watched plenty of the games last year and it just wasn't clicking. Odom doesn't really fit the Pippen role in a triangle and the rest of the guys don't seem to understand it either. If you watch some old Bulls tape you see the triangle executed and everyone stepping up and doing their job. The only person consistently doing his job on the Lakers is Kobe. He is so good at doing his job that he makes any team a PLAYOFF team but not a contender. Either he's not good enough or the rest of them aren't... your pick
Here's the problemo. Kobe is being paid WAY TOO MUCH MONEY! The Lakers can't make the moves needed to get this team over the top. Of all the players available over the summer who did we pick up? The 20 mil that we will give him 2008 really messes things up because either you have Kobe and no cash or no Kobe and no chance. This is why I'm having a really hard time with this guy and for a guy that has loved the team since my first game at the Forum, back when I was dating Heather Locklear, I have never seen a guy put this team through soo much drama. Saraco, guys, what can we do? -
to answer beclark's question, whoever he is...
If Kobe gets traded.... I become a fair-weathered fan. I also feel bad for Laker fans every time Kobe plays the Lakers with an opposing jersey on his back. I will not feel bad for Jerry Buss and the negative vibe merchant, Mitch Kupcheck. He is a jerk and I would tell him to his face. -
One thing we can all agree on is that Mitch is a moron. That I agree whole heartedly with. As for who I would consider a good player in the league, I consider Kobe a good player. Never said he wasn't. I did say he a bad teammate and doesn't play well with others. If I had to choose between having a Kobe Bryant type player or a Steve Nash type player to build around I would take Steve Nash any day of the week.
One of the points, my main point was about Kobe's lying to the public. Once again no one wants to dispute that. I'd like the guy a lot more if he could ever stick to an opinion or course of action and stop waffling all the time or acting like a politician.
The other point is that most of these fans, such as some of you it sounds like are not really Laker fans as much as you are Kobe fans and that kind of disgust me. When you are a fan of a team you stick with that team through thick and thin. The Lakers have a storied history long before Kobe took his first dump in a diaper, but people act like the Lakers came to be when Kobe joined the team. -
Not quite...Wow, you've made some bold leaps there. Did you get there via your Jump to Conclusions mat?
I already answered your allegations of all of the alleged lies.
I can't speak for anyone else in this thread (there's only a few of us) but I've been a Lakers fan since I came out of the womb. I remember the pre-Magic dark days. I've spent countless hours at the Fabulous Forum. I never left, even during the spectacular Sedale Threatt era. My Lakers pride and history runs deep.
If Kobe weren't a Laker anymore, I'd still be a fan of his. When Rambis went to Phoenix, did I suddenly not like him anymore? Nope. Same with AC Green. Same with Byron Scott. I still root for Big Shot Bob Horry. And so on and so forth. -
-Kobe's actually not a good teammate simply because he's an asshole. And I'm saying that objectively as possible. I'm by no means a kobe hater. It's not like I see that guy on TV and think to myself "what a fuckin asshole. i hate his jellybean bryant jr. ass!" But, unfortunately, he just happens to have that "asshole" personality that makes him a terrible teammate to be with--simple as that. I don't care about numbers. I don't care about stats. I don't care about 81 points. You ever play pick-up ball where you end-up with some ex-college roundball god on your team that's freakin unstoppable and it's almost laughable when anybody tries to stop him? But he also happens to be some ballhog asshole? that's what it's like playin with "mamba." you win like 8 games straight and never leave the court. but is it fun? hell no.
but kobe does have a point:
Luke Walton - 6 years, 30 million? yikes -
jlombre - I hear you, but remember that Kobe's job isn't to make sure his guys are having fun. This ain't AYSO where everyone plays and its just for fun. His job is to win games and bring titles to LA. Remember, for all of Mike's commercials and "be like Mike" and all the canonization that followed (and still hold today), the guy was an absolute killer on the court. He was easily the biggest a-hole trash talker in the league. He wasn't the best teammate from the standpoint of everyone having fun and enjoying each other's company. But once he got the right talent around him, the right coach and figured out how to win, he was unstoppable.
Kobe *could* be on that trajectory...or could spectacularly flame out while finishing his career as a Knick or Grizzlie. Yikes. -
beclark, Forget that whole team loyalty crap. When upper management makes a human so mad they wanna stop watching basketball....they don't deserve my loyalty. Loyalty is a two way street. Staying a loyal fan even though a team isn't loyal to you is a waste of energy. When I became a laker fan, Kobe was on the team. I watched every every game. I was there for losses and three championships in a row. When they lost to the spurs en route to the 4th title....... a lot of those fans you admire for their loyalty, boooooo'd. That's pathetic. I clapped and said thank you for giving LA three championships. And now if Kobe leaves I stop watching...you think that is disgusting? Enjoy your blind faith and call it honorable
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jimbo- OBVIOUSLY being a good teammate isn't all about making sure everybody out there is having 'fun.' obviously it encapsulates much much more than that. but it does play large. and i was wasn't really meaning the word 'fun' necessarily as much as...'enjoying' playing with somebody. you mentioned mj and i think a good comparison could be made if you asked peeps that played with him whether they 'enjoyed' playing with him, versus if you asked those who played with 'mamba' (even when they were winning). you'd probably get a different answer. yeah, they are both a-holes...but completely different. mj-cutthroat. kobe-pretentious.
wait...what's the argument here? -
when kobe leaves i will be a KOBE FAN
hes the most dominate player in the league and probably the smartest, sure hes acted a lil high n mighty but he is just that compared to most players n the nba, u cant knock him for not passing over the years because after shaq left he was all alone but as uve seen n the past yr he distributes the ball when a good players ready to take it but when the team is down he easily turns into the viscious monster he is n puts the team on his shoulders, now that hes got gasol he passin the ball scoring just as much with less shot attempts and making it past the first round no problem, so dont be a kobe hater, hes just ahead of his time and knows it
