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Limiting is not banning

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Gun controls measures are as necessary as protecting the 2nd amendment.
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8 responses // Limiting is not banning

  • I agree wholeheartedly with Joshua. The reason the gun lobby is so afraid of any kind of sensable legistration is simply a loss of profit. You could see 500 students murdered with AK 47s and they would still justify the selling of them. This is corporate America and we the people have lost the battle
    George Bush was put in the white house for the sole purpose of exponentially increasing profits for the oligarchy. The constitution is no longer relevant.
    pilvin
  • I didn't say any of that and I don't believe that the gun industry is as irresponsible as you think. I place more of the blame on lobbying groups like the NRA who are completely paranoid about people trying to take away their guns. Nobody condones school shootings and no one wants guns to be used in an unsafe way. Right now, the gun lobby is trying to find its way and get the balance that they need in able to both protect their constitutional rights and the safety of the people.
    NoShow
  • I used to buy into the argument that gun control is just about safety... but I just don't agree with it anymore. I agree there's a lot of poor arguments about gun control... But the NRA is not the only organization against gun control- check out http://www.FrontSight.com. They make a lot of arguments that don't rely on the "slippery slope" fallacy. History proves that when a class has it's rights to self defense taken away or restricted, that class becomes easy victims of tyranny. Given my, and your apparent jewish descent, I am very sensitive to being told that I can't own as much firepower as a gangster with no regard to the laws, or a government paramilitary force that is not subject to them. Maybe you should be too. It wasn't so long ago that our "forefathers" were being sent to the gas chambers. Would the rights to defend themselves have created a better armed resistance... I think there's a good chance it would have.
    See: http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm
    Maybe having a sense of this dark history and the REAL slippery slope of gun control would change your take on this... I know it changed mine.
    We_The_People
  • I'm not Jewish, but it sounds like fun. Where can I sign up?
    NoShow
  • to we_the people,
    i wonder where you got the idea i was jewish? I know the battle for gun control is lost. If the jews in Europe had guns in their homes during the Holocaust it might have caused a few insignifcent deaths among the Nazis, but wouldn't have changed anything. The Poles and the French the English had more than a few pistols and rifles and what good did it do against an organized army.
    The idea that a gun in the home will somehow protect you from any organized military group is just a fantasy. There are statistics that show a gun in the home, will more than likely kill or harm a family member or friend by as much as 40 to 1, than protect you from a thief or other criminal.
    By the way i thought the NRA was the gun lobby .
    pilvin
  • I was referring to the author- his last name is Woltermann which sounds like a possible jewish lineage (that's why I said "apparent"). Sorry for the bad guess NoShow. I'm not a practicing jew, but I have experienced anti-semitism, and no, it's not generally what I would consider "fun". I have ancestors who were murdered by Nazis, so I guess I feel strongly about it. Anyway, the author's lineage is irrelevant to my argument. What is relevant is history- Hitler's gun control act of 1938 was but one precursor to the holocaust. It's all speculation as to what difference it would have made if the Jews were not stripped of their guns before the Nazis implemented their "final solution"... But I would not be so sure that it "wouldn't have changed anything". Going around door to door and rounding up defenseless people would not have been so easy as it was. Anyway, i'm not deluded... clearly no amount of rifles is ultimately going to stop an organized military with tanks and artillery. But I'd personally rather fight the good fight with a rifle than a rock. Yes, I know the pen is mightier than the sword. But I own both. The history of armed resistance to tyranny is actually quite sad and also quite fascinating. You might find that your opinion would change if you chose to learn about the small impact these "resistance movements" did have - if nothing else, in shaping global opinion. Sure it seems distant from our day to day experience in America... but resistance to oppression is still strong all over the world, (including in this forum). I really don't think good law abiding people should be afraid to own a gun if they are safe about how it is stored and kept. Also, I don't really see the relevance of your statistic. Obviously households with guns are more likely to be victim to accidental deaths by shooting. Households with swimming pools are more likely to have accidental drownings. But that's why you teach your kids to be safe around the pool, and you put a fence around it. Anyway, I am not some card-carrying NRA gun nut. I agree with some gun "safety" statutes and laws... but I also beleive in adherance to the constitution. It says that the right to bear arms shall not be "infringed". Telling me I can't have access to a means of self defense that is readily available to the criminal element... strikes me as an infringement of my guaranteed right. Anyway, I respect your view and appreciate your post. But honestly... if the constitution was not relevant- I highly doubt that this forum would even exist. (See "First Amendment")
    We_The_People
  • ps. NoShow- Your sarcastic comment actually made me think... I don't really know much about converting to judiasm. But here's a link if you "choose to be chosen" as they put it.
    http://www.converttojudaism.org/
    Sounds kinda Weird. BUT hey, madonna and britney did it.. So it must be a good idea. :-P I guess I am a bit to much of a humanist to go that route. But for some reason my grandparents thought it was great.
    We_The_People
  • You make good point but your analogy is inaccurate. Liberals are not against prayers. Atheists are. Liberals are indifferent, however, as long as prayers are in moderation, and not denomination specific. The gun lobby is out there to sell weapons. That is why they are pushing gun ownership by every toddler.
    singhtjunior

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