Getting Waterboarded Uncut Version

Wow! These people are just wasting away water.. dont they know that global warming is happening???
I can't believe thisis happening.. I can't believe people actually have a job like that... what a horrible job to have. This world isn't as pretty as I thought it was. I hope there is something more to this then this ugly world we live in. I can't wait till judgement day.... if this keeps happeing!!

Forget waterboarding.
The real issue is the Bush administration's use of torture. The main reason we all have even heard of waterboarding is that it's a good smokescreen to draw attention away from more important violations of the Geneva convention and our rights as American Citizens. Do a little research and you'll find out that the legislation on banning waterboarding also indemnifies the Bush administration and their cronies from being held accountable for use of torture in relation to the endless and ill-defined war on "Terrorism".

they should submit all the pols who state that this isn't torture to 25 minutes of this.
would love to see cheney go thru it

The major component of this type of torture is psychological not physical.
The victim believes he will not survive.
In this type of simulation the threat of death is not present.
Evaluating the procedure on its physical aspects only is disingenuous.

Kaj , nice of you to demo the technique. Wonder what your response would be like in actual enemy hands. Would like to think that your training would help but to my knowledge in the 500+ years that this technique has been applied (there are many variations) there are precious few cases of 'survivors'. You do answer the main question very, very well - what is waterboarding? Would like to hear what some of the idiots, weak links and vultures in congress think. Wonder if they know (or understand) how allowing our culture to engage in such activity compromises our own troops if captured. Not to mention our message of democracy for the world. Nice work Kaj.

The argument is this: the technique is unconscionable and inadmissible under any circumstances, even in hypothetical cases where the alternative to waterboarding is terrorist attacks resulting in mass casualties among innocent civilians.

How ignorant to assume we can wage war yet avoid the classic "choice of evils" dilemmas that confronted past statesmen such as Churchill and Roosevelt. So, my friends “safe at home enjoying the fruits of the labor of our military” believe it is possible to avoid this choice if one is also prepared to pay for it in blood—as long as it is not in one's own.

War is hell. Winston Churchill said it best: “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival.”

iam appauled at this type of interagation. We call ourselves human. Animals don't engage in this type ot behavoir. Am appauled @ this bush administraion.

SEPTEMBER 11 2001,,,,,,, STOP AND THINK IF WE DID NOT GO TO WAR WITH THE TALABAN AND ALQUADA THE TALABAN WOULD STILL BE BEHEADING PEOPLE STONEING WOMEN IN THE STREETS FOR SHOWING TO MUCH SKIN. (WHICH SADAM HUSIEN THOUGHT, AND ALQADA STILL SUPPORT) BEING TOLD WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO. ((FACT)) BUSH AND THE MILITARY ARE THE REASON THAT IT DOES NOT HAPPEN ANY MORE. AND SOME OF YOU POEPLE THINK HE IS THE BAD GUY

We should do worse. What ever it would talk to save people. This would be good to bust drug dealers. And to get the left wing retards, that don't know how stupid they sound to shut up.

All I want to know is, when did WE become the Nazis ?
Seriously, I don't even recognize our country anymore.
I can't wait until these repugnant a___holes are out of office so we can reclaim the REAL USA.
Now if only someone would strap Bush/Cheney/ Rumsfeld to the rack and have a go at them .
The only thing more disgusting than American torture sessions are the vermin who endorse and perpetuate them.

Perhaps it is a bad idea for me to weigh in but, as an amateur torturer, I believe that the use of torture for interrogation is a sign of incompetence and cowardice.

I should also mention this was one of the worst ?professional interrogation? scenes I have ever seen. These guys just did not seem to know what they were doing.

Before anyone calls the cops, I should explain. Play torture is not the same thing as real torture. Everyone I play with knows what is going to happen to them, and they are doing it because they enjoy the experience. If things go too far, they are always able to stop what is going on. I only do this with people who consent to this type of play. It?s the consent itself that I find interesting and enjoyable. I find the notion of ?real torture? disgusting, and I am probably far less likely to every use real violence than most. I?ve spent a lot of time learning and practicing interrogation. It is remarkably easy to make mistakes that can cause physical injury, and even the simplest of activities can cause psychological harm. (Kids, don?t try this at home). I am by no means an expert, but I do have enough knowledge of the subject to make some comments.

The key to interrogation is in crafting a compelling story. You need to know exactly what you want to subject to do, and you need to convince the subject that he has no choice but to comply. There are a lot of different ways to do this, but you have to somehow bring the person to a place where compliance is the only logical solution. Everything needs to lead up to that single moment where compliance in inevitable.

Pain and discomfort, in very very careful doses, can sometimes help. We are, as a species, used to pain. Our pain tolerances are actually much higher than we think they are. Too much pain at the wrong time, and the subject will realize that it isn?t as bad as they thought. It is also hard to remember pain? we are actually able to forget traumatic events literally seconds after they end.

Implacable logic is a vastly better tool.

Listen to the questions that the interrogators were asking. Did they give the impression that there was one specific thing they were asking for, or did their demands just seem to change randomly? Did they give the impression that they knew more than the subject, or did they make it clear that they didn?t know anything? Did they ever even indicate that compliance would mean that the water boarding would stop?

(continues...)

My point is that interrogation is really, really hard to do well. All the interrogators I know believe that physical torture is almost never the most effective technique. It could conceivably work in certain cases, but you would be much better off learning better psychological techniques than learning how to water board safely.

The problem is that torture allows the incompetent interrogator to look like he knows what he is doing. It is much easier to say to your boss ?I can?t get the subject to talk because you won?t let me water board him? than ?I can?t get him to talk because I don?t speak Pashto, I don?t understand his culture, I haven?t had enough training, I don?t know why we detained him, and for all I know he might actually be innocent?.

As an officer, it is much easier to cover your ass, look the other way and ask your superiors for more leeway in interrogation. It takes a lot of courage to stand your ground, take a principled stance, and risk looking weak on terror. Even in the public sphere it costs you nothing to say that everything is permissible to defend American lives.

Look at Abu Ghraib? None of the people convicted knew anything about interrogation, and no one involved even spoke Arabic. None of their superiors, right up to the white house, had any experience in interrogation. Everyone from Karpinski to Bush plead ignorance, incompetence or cowardice.

I can?t help suspect that that part of the reason that the CIA tapes were destroyed. Criminal levels of cruelty can sometimes be excused in a war. Criminal levels of incompetence can?t.

Hey Boltaction,
Were you aware that the USA armed the Taliban in the first place in order to help them fight the Soviet Union?

That is what the book was about that the film "Charlie Wilson's War" is about.

Maybe you should go see that film.

I agree with nameless guy with regard to torture.

Information retrieved under "real" torture is unreliable because the person being tortured will say anything they think the interrogators want to hear in order to make the torture stop.

BTW Nameless guy are you an S&M master? Is that what you are talking about?

Thanks Jubal,

Well, yeah, I've been doing BDSM for about ten years. I throw some pretty off the wall parties, and I am a regular presenter at some local kink groups.

I wouldn't use the term "master", though. ;)

so, is this technique considered some sort of loophole because the person's head isn't dunked into water?

This is the worst example of waterboard torture I've ever seen. Not even close to the real deal.

hey people are pretty pissed about this stuff these days