Hostage deal falls through. Oliver Stone says "Shame on Colombia, shame on Uribe"

I believe the Dynamics of the economy changed as result of the Colombian constitutional changes not because of the increased US aid. That has nothing to do with the war on drugs/terror. This is whats key on this discussion, that the aid was brought as a result of the "war on drugs" in the 80's and it has morphed into something close to a never ending nightmare, essentially, amongst other things, because many of the main characters in this novela, had been tainted or crossed sides and lines.

You may argue that physical presence in remote areas is key, however the govt has not implemented economic growth in those areas, so people continue to be poor and at the mercy of paramilitary groups. (look at the numbers from the UN on displaced groups into Vzla and Ecuador)
Not to mention private corporations (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258804,00.html).

Also the aid was designed originally and in part to help peasants to stop the grow of Marihuana and Coca plants so they could transition into a more marketable produce that would allow them to survive. That has not happened as planned.

Read this link
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB69/

The situation has grown into a military stalemate, and after 60 years of conflict it only proves that the alternative is political and diplomatic. IMHO

I as you, wish for an ending of this conflict, because Colombia is a beautiful country with absolutely delightful people and sights, I should know. I hope you were right, but historically these kinds of conflicts had never seen a victorious side, and the people in the caught in the middle has always been the one suffering.

Good luck

I think we are missing each other. My point that the statistics show that Colombia is more secure and safer precisely because its military is stronger (which is partly as a result of American aid). As result, not only is the government now able to have a presence in the entire country, but also provide the sense of security that business owners and the nation need to bolster economy growth. The growth of the Colombian military is necessary to secure the country and fight the FARC's 17,000 strong army whose stated goal is to topple the government. If you want to fight 17,000 people who kidnap, murder, rape, and attack your infrastructure, you need high military spending to fight back. Higher military spending is largely responsible for the success in containing the FARC and making the country more secure and safe for its citizens in the past decade. If the FARC laid down there arms as they have been giving the opportunity under various Colombian administrations (Pastrana even gave the FARC exclusive control an area the size of Switzerland as an incentive to negotiate peace, but the FARC only used the area to reinforce its troublesome ways) then high military spending would not be necessary.

I think you are misunderstanding my POV. I never said that Colombia is worst off than 10 years ago, if anything the changes brought by the 91 Constitution had made possible that millions of Colombians reach middle class status. But that was a political compromise brought by the undeclared war. That's it. However my point is that by feeding the military with more money, they have grown fat and rich by "purposely" not winning the war (IMHO) and if the numbers dont lie as you said, why is the govt spending 6% of the GDP (about 300Bill a year) in defense? That does not include th US aid which is around 7 Billion or almost a hundred in 20 years.

Again if the purpose was to halt the war and reach peace, they really have not tried hard enough.

About Vzla, may be you should know that is widely Known that RCTV not only used its power to promote a coup d'etat in 2002, it did it openly (to a democratic elected president). Now in any country in the world including this one, that would carry a tough penalty, however nothing was done until 07 when its license was not renew. BTW RCTV is broadcasting as we speak and from Caracas, not on the public spectrum but on satellite and cable.
It is true that the state has created more media outlets, but it is also true that private companies continue to exist in that nation.

I urge you to read a bit more of the history of Venezuela in the last 50 years, and you will see that many of the structural problems in the economy have to do with the idiosyncrasy of that nation and the way the economic principles were laid out when the oil industry was nationalized in 1973. It takes time and much social effort to change something that is embedded in the soul of Venezuelans (chavistas or not), and I think although many great strides had been achieved (such as Income tax collection, a rarity in the past a reality nowadays) a lot more has to be done.

Again, I am sorry but I can not agree with you.

Thanks though

The figures I quoted for Colombia - single digit unemployment (lowest in more than a decade), constant and stable economic growth, reduced kidnappings and murders are figures that affect ALL Colombians, not just a particular class. The military aid now allows Colombians to travel on highways between all major cities and in most rural areas without fear of being kidnapped and/or killed by the FARC or other criminials. I lived in Colombia for 12 years and have traveled there on yearly basis for the past 10 years. If you think Colombia is worse off today than it was 10 years ago, or that US aid has not helped stabilized the country, then you must have lived in a different country. It sure was not Colombia. Furthermore, the latest Colombia polls shows that over 70% of all Colombians support Uribe. You cannot say that 70% all Colombia belongs to the "high spheres in power and the ever powerful families that control the economy." That's factually not true. The truth is that Uribe's and his policies, which include US support, have the support of the majority of Colombians.

And as for the freedom of speech in Venezuela, what do you call Chavez' refusal to renew tv right of stations that don't support him (essentially trying to monopolize a major media medium) and his constant statements saying that anyone who speaks against him is a traitor? That's not really encouraging, specially from the leader of nation who is suppose to foster freedom of speech and avoid repression.
The only thing Chavez is doing is spending the billions of oil revenue to buy support from the poor without creating a stable economy or stimulating job growth. The result has only fueled rampant inflation and made it harder for the poor he is trying to help to get even the most basic goods. Once the oil runs out, Venezuela will realize that it should have spend that money investing in its future.

It has had a positive effect all right...for the high spheres in power and the ever powerful families that control the economy. I also lived in Colombia and in Venezuela and I can tell you that after almost 100 billion dollars in all kinds of aid in the last 20 years the original premise of the plan Colombia, which was the war on drugs and morphed into the war of terror its a utter "failure". Failure for the affected directly, but a success for those who are enriching themselves with this infinite war. For Uribe and his cronies to reach peace is an oxymoron it would mean giving away billions of dollars in "aid" that keeps the military occupied and fat on the same token keeps them politicos in power. For the US means having access to some of the biggest natural resources in the continent and its eye on "socialist countries"

After Thirty-Five Years and $500 Billion, Drugs Are as Cheap and Plentiful as Ever in the US. I can only imagine what the US govt does with the money that drugs that are entering this country, produce.

About your assessment of Vzla, well thats the story of that country. In 1986 they had shortages of everything except gasoline, and police repression was at its high, many students, journalist and citizens were murdered in 40 years of "democracy". I was in CCS recently and I saw hundreds of students marching against Chaves almost daily, newspapers and tv stations openly criticized the govt and even call the president names and ridicule publicly its ministers. Many of them are free spewing their daily venom as we speak. So what would you call that? Freedom of what kind of speech.

However I also saw, new and accessible infrastructure, highways, trains, social medicine for everyone, including those who using freedom of speech criticizes the govt daily. Maybe you did not know that being Vzla one of the richest countries in South America it also had the worst ratio of wealth distribution, during those 40 years before Chaves...now if you visit Unesco, you'll hear a different story.

Sorry I can not agree, with you

I am from Colombia and I am truly surprised by the ignorance of the positive effect American aid has had on Colombia. For the past two decades and in part a result of US aid, Colombia has effectively combated two U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations (the FARC and the ELN - two groups that kidnap and murder civilians and attack the country's infrastructure) and also dismantled a third - the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC). Since Uribe won the Colombian presidency, terrorist attacks in Colombia decreased by 63% and kidnappings by 78%. For the first time in recent history, the Colombian government has a presence in all of its municipalities. Rather than rail against progress in Colombia, we should support it.

Oiver Stone?s assertion in other interviews about Hugo Chavez being a man of law and a good leader are not only ignorant, but also absurd. Chavez has curtailed freedom of speech and eliminated the judiciary?s independence in Venuzuela. While Colombia has a strong economy growing at 6% and unemployment in the single digits, Venuzuela now has the hemisphere?s highest inflation rate and due to Chavez?s imposed price controls, the country has food shortages on even the most basic foods such as milk, meat, and sugar. Caracas, Venezulas?s capital, is now filled with crime - even garbage goes uncollected! If Chavez is the type of leader Oliver Stone wants, then maybe he should leave his cozy little mansion in th US and move to caracas.

The biggest hurdle that any peace initiative will have in Colombia is "The Plan Colombia" and the billions on tax payers money that is send to Uribe and his Cronies so they can continue enriching themselves with this war and its alliance with the Bush administration in the "War of (t)error."

They (US and Uribe) DO NOT want Chavez to become a more important and peaceful protagonist in the region and do not want the FARC to make a statement towards a political solution of the 60 year old conflict. On the other hand the US has hundreds of military advisors and equipment in Colombia which has an strategic geographical position and it is close to huge mineral resources (namely Vzla and Ecuador included) Remember Panama 1903!

Shame Shame Shame. Tell your congressman: No more money to plan Colombia and No Free Trade agreement with Colombia.