BEHEADINGS VS. WATERDOARDING

OK. Here is why you are ignorant. Firstly, murder isn't torture. Murder is murder. Secondly, we are not fighting a war against Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
See, the United States signed this itty bitty thing called the Geneva Convention that states that we can't torture even in war. The UN also has defined torture as "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person..." Now, the thing about water boarding is, it is specifically created to make people think they are about to die so they will talk. If it didn't make someone think they were going to die, it wouldn't work and they wouldn't use it.

They put plastic wrap over your face while your body is tied down and pour water on your face. What happens is that since there is a hole in the plastic, it drips into your nose and mouth making you cough and choke. If you attempt to take heavy breaths, the plastic comes into your mouth and makes you think you are suffocating.

It doesn't matter exactly what they do. Thatâ??s not the point. The point is that it effectively makes people talk even if they don't want to talk. Thus, it is torture.

How about we start reading something besides biased American news, eh? Read The Guardian instead of watching FOX "NEWS"

Jacoblp. thanks for the response. I'm completely aware of the Geneva convention and the many other policies that deal with this topic. I also know the difference between murder and torture, and even though I know the specifics about waterboarding, I appreciate the little step by step lesson you provided in your comment. You're a very smart man.

My short video was simply to point out the difference between what we do here and what is done to us over there. Why not tell the "enemy" to abide by the same Geneva convention and to stop cutting throats and beheading innocent people on video in an effort to bully and put fear in us. Then we can talk about waterboarding. Does that sound fair? Get back to me after you talk to them and let me know what they say. And why do you liberals always assume that someone with my viewpoint is an avid watcher of Fox news? You guys crack me up. thanks again Jacob. take care.

waterboarding has long been a "torture" used on U.S.Navy Seal enrolee's but I don't think they pay much attention to the Geneva convention.

Should we use al-Qaeda is a moral barometer? Can we say "Well, I know we dropped a bomb on an orphanage on purpose--but LOOK WHAT THEY DID ON 9/11!"

My mom always used to tell me that just because my friend's parents let him swear, stay out late, and smoke cigarettes doesn't mean she didn't expect me to get straight A's, get a scholarship and go to a good school. I was held to a higher standard than the doldrums of society. If al-Qaeda is a pile of rubbish, as I submit they are, it is NOT ENOUGH for us to call ourselves cleanly sorted recyclables. This whole al-Qaeda does it worse argument is so played out. What happened to the days when America was great, when we held ourselves to a higher standard, when we didn't use others as an excuse for our behaviors?

No, we should not accept waterboarding, as we should not accept beheadings, as we should not accept torture, as we should not accept terror--but we shouldn't commit those things, either. Torture does nothing to stop terror. Torture fosters terror, because torture IS TERROR.

Gfox, I appreciate your comments. I agree that no form of "torture" can be justified, and my viewpoint was in response to the current "trend" of Americans attacking America for this alleged "torture", while at the same time dismissing or overlooking the enemy's use of torture and atrocities. They can't be compared, but when we do compare the two, water-boarding looks like a refreshing alternative.

As for America being "Great", we still are and have continued to be the greatest country in the world. I believe in my country and the freedoms that it offers. One of those freedoms is the freedom of speech and expression and that's what we're all doing here on Current. It's wonderful isn't it?

It does not matter. The united states claims themselves as liberalist, freedom fighters, but you cann't go on waterdoarding persons because they did wrong to your troops, as you will become just like the terrorist you're fighting and in doing so giving them the evidence and the reason to keep wanting to destroy the american people. So waterdoarding is no different from beheadings, ther both evil and cruel.

Look up what the CIA did in Iran in the '50s. Then come back and talk about how friendly waterboarding is. The US has been murdering innocent people around the world for the past 50 years. And it's nothing pretty and media-friendly like waterboarding.

I bet you think Saddam Hussein blew up the twin towers.

Oh, P.S. your neo-conservative sheepishness is very clear. You implied that there is a "liberal media". Our media is controlled by only FOUR companies in this country, two of which are NewsCorp and GE. There is no "liberal media"! It's ridiculous how much that idea is thrown around. The media covers exactly what the government wants it to. You're living in a matrix, yet you think you're so well informed.

Hey Grobbbbbbbbbbbbb. Of course Saddam Hussein didn't "blow up" the twin towers. George Bush did. Or at least that's what you probably believe, right? Thanks for the response though. You guys are very entertaining.

No, that's not what I believe. Here's a movie for you though, zeitgeistmovie.com. Can you explain why there are DOZENS of deities that came before the regurgitated idea of god you follow, that share the EXACT same characteristics? (Virgin birth, born on December 25th, 3 wise men, gifts, 12 disciples, dead for three days, resurrected, ETC.) Deities that came sometimes thousands of years before Jesus. Also covered is the fact that not ONE of the historians at the time of jesus wrote about him, out of 20 well-known historians. Only two of 20 wrote about "the Christ"- meaning "the annointed" and in extremely brief terms... under a paragraph each.

The movie will also explain the NUMEROUS holes in the official 9/11 story. If what you believe is really true, then you shouldn't mind watching a video that may make you question your "truths". As a matter of fact, I constantly read and watch materials from the Christian/"patriot" side and can say that I have outstanding certainty in what I believe. So do yourself a favor and watch with an open mind.

I've decisively taken apart all of your arguments you've posted, yet you respond in no productive terms.

Lol. You crack me up Grock. Nowhere in this discussion has God, dieties, wise men, or Jesus come up. What are you talking about and why are you throwing this foolishness into the discussion? lol. You've already exposed yourself as a God-hater in another topic and someone who appears to have been hurt by Christianity. None of your opinions to date can be taken seriously, as they're all tainted with your hatred towards God, and hatred towards anyone with an opinion who you assume to be associated with God. Why are you so angry?

You assume to much, but then again, your assumptions are tempered with your hatred of God and christians. Stay on topic and chill out. Please. And whoever hurt you in the past to make you hate God so much, I'm sorry. thanks.

I bring up your idea of god because all of your "own" thoughts are clearly from the pulpit. Of COURSE you're a bigot against homosexuals and advocate the torture of muslim people, or "enemies", you're a modern christian. I would be SHOCKED if you actually accepted others (as Jesus supposedly did in the Bible). But, of course, as a modern christian you feel it's your right to change political policy and lead people astray due to your own groundless "convictions" and baseless ideology.

Look, I brought up some serious questions, whether or not it's "off topic". And as usual, you don't respond in any productive terms to what I've written. Rather than try and find and historical evidence for Jesus, or try and counter my claims, you label me a "god hater". Where is your sense? Rather than try and find a logical reason why dozens of son gods that predate your own have the same characteristics as jesus the son god, you assume that I have been "hurt by Christianity".

This would be on par with me, rather than debating you on the homosexual topic, avoid your points and claim that you have been "hurt by homosexuals". Do you see you don't have a leg to stand on? Just typical avoidance. Though to your credit, Christians don't have any evidence for their worship of jesus the son god, so it's probably best you don't try and argue with me.

"What are you talking about and why are you throwing this foolishness into the discussion? lol. You've already exposed yourself as a God-hater in another topic and someone who appears to have been hurt by Christianity."

I would do a point to point rebuttal on what you wrote, but it's dripping with fallacy. Go back to school and take some philosophy and theology classes if you want to step up. You're clearly not ready.

By the way, who would jesus waterboard?

Gmoney. There's a big difference between debating and arguing. You come into these forums kicking, screaming, and attacking any opinion that you disagree with. Your intentions are very clear. You enjoy arguing, not debating, and I'm almost certain that you're someone who loves the sound of his own voice and ideas.

My interest is not to come in here and argue with anyone, but to express my view point, share ideas, and have reasonable debate; not to have someone call names, attack other peoples reglious beliefs, or waste time with someone who's sole purpose is to lift up his own ego by claiming to have superior ideas and opinions.

When you can calm down, take some deep breaths, and agree to engage in some reasonable debate without taking your hatred for God out on me and on any opposing viewpoint, then I'll entertain your conspiracy theories and agenda driven videos, and other opinions.

In closing, as you study and read through your many philosophy and theology books, find some time to learn a little humility. It's ok to have opposing opinions with someone, but do it humbly and with some tact. Not everyone who believes differently than you do is your enemy. Good luck in your continued studies.

Dunamis, I am calm. Thank you for the good wishes. Take care of yourself.

This post didnt make any shhenshhe at all. Just because you decided beheadings were worse than waterboarding doesnt mean that waterboarding isnt a form of torture.

Why don't you give it a try sometime. In fact, why not head on down to Gitmo and volunteer to be waterboarded. Let us know how it works out. What kind of debate have you presented? It would appear to me that you make inflammatory remarks to incite arguments. This type of behavior is known in some circles as being a troll. Your defense of waterboarding is to compare it to beheading? And that considering it as torture is "funny"? That's your defense? Put on your tinfoil hat and try again son.

Bad logic. The fact that terrorists murder and torture has nothing to do with whether or not waterboarding is torture. And this is not a "left"/"right" issue, no matter how much some people want to make it into one. There are people of all political persuasions who believe waterboarding is torture and that the United States should not engage in torture. Take John McCain for instance, the Republican nominee for president. Many Christians are appalled by waterboarding and other forms of torture.

Torture has not proven to be an effective interrogation technique, so what's the point -- revenge? What a great standard for free, democratic nations everywhere to aspire to. I get your point, you're comparing waterboarding to atrocities committed by terrorists and you say "eh, it ain't as bad as getting beheaded, what's all the fuss about?". Yeah, you're right compared to the terrorists we're saints. And that's all that counts, we're not as ruthless and immoral as terrorists. As long as that's true no reason to examine any of our policies.

P.S. Have you watched Mike Huckabee's piece on Torture in War here? Makes a lot more sense than yours, and he's Republican, a pastor, and a favorite for Republican presidential candidate among the far right.

See the biggest problem with waterboarding is that some of the people being tortured AREN'T guilty. Do some research.

Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am please correct me, but are you suggesting, even for a moment that water boarding should be endorsed???

If so then at what level of publicly funded institutions should it stop?

FBI? State police? Local sheriffs? How about in school... that would set the kids straight, No detention today Johnny... you're getting wet at lunch time.

Great idea.

I agree with the pod. I won't debate on it, because my view is just that: I agree.

Excellent perspective, nice to hear some truthiness from the online community for a change. Good on ya Dun!

Nice try guy but I don't see a major difference between getting your head severed off by a piece of shrapnel from a US bomb or having it cut off with a sharp blade. Like many people, you're trying to justify one crime on the basis of another. At least beheading ends a persons misery and terror whereas waterboarding deliberately prolongs it right up until the next waterboarding session.

Only an ignorant, misinformed tool would agree with this perspective. Stooping to the level of the opposing side will do NOTHING to benefit our citizens, our reputation, or our soldiers. Objective thought, anyone?

Yea, here's an objective thought. Name 1 person that has been killed by the apparent rampant use of waterboarding by the US government.

The silence is deafening...

Just because an American hasn't killed a waterboarding detainee doesn't mean waterboarding hasn't killed someone, and it doesn't mean they won't either.

FYI: The Nazis used a similar technique to today's waterboarding in World War II. Thought that was sort of an interesting parallel.

Let's see, hmmmm. yeah waterboard the #*@(&. If they do not or will not abide by the Geneava Convention, then I think it's ok to waterboard. If it's going to save our lives, do it. But if it is proven that the person truely had no knowledge of anything and was wrongfully waterboarded, then we should pay them for the misunderstanding. One million dollars for each session the person had to endure should be enough to say oops sorry. My bad. that being said, waterboarding should be the very last thing they try, and only under the watch of responsable authorities to make sure it is done right. Not just by some nut wanting to get his/her rocks off. late Rip