The Gray Rape Myth

It's probably because they would rather believe the myth of the promiscuous coed that is ready for anything and secretly wants it no matter what she says. The kinds that writes letters to magazines that about the busload of cheerleaders

They probably don't want to have to think about self restraint because it's too much responsibility. The last thing they want is personal accounability since it gets in the way of raging hormones

Sounds like the real question being asked here is, Are men easier than women? Are their standards lower? Are they hornier? Will they, in the words of Jay (of Jay and Silent Bob) f*ck anything that moves?

If so, then yes, women are the gatekeepers.

Or, better yet, consider this metaphor: the raging hormones of a male may be likened to flowing water, and the restraint of a female likened to a river dam. The water will break through if the dam isn't strong enough. If that dam starts doing tequila shots, well....

Of course there is such a thing as male restraint. There is also such a thing as female sexual aggression. I'm aware that my river dam metaphor takes neither of these into account.

Shame on men for not showing restraint in a situation where such is clearly called for. But if in their nature they are by and large truly more aggressive and more sexually uninhibited (and less empathetic, perhaps?), then these factors must be taken into account.

I'm not saying it's the woman's fault. But sure, be more careful if you think you might be in the company of an aggressor. Go to clubs with people who will watch your back, people you trust, and don't drink yourself stupid.

Last weekend I went drinking with a friend before we were picked up by sober friends who drove us to the Nokia Theatre to watch a comedian perform. We were very drunk. I ended up passing out before the comedian even came on and my friend got into a fight because he was touching the hair of a girl in front of us. We were with friends we trusted and my friend still ended up with two cuts on his cheek for about a week. Never underestimate the power of liquid courage.

What would have happened if we were women? I would like to think not much would have occurred, but I know while exiting the theatre one of us may have strayed from our "babysitters" and gotten lost (btw really did happen). I have no idea what would have happened after that.

Personal responsibility has it's place. I think women aren't "asking for it" if they go out and drink a few more beers/cocktails than they are used to. They are meant to suffer the headache I endured the following day.

indeed, no one's asking for it. I guess i'm trying to attribute a kind of "take it" quality to maledom. unjust as it may be.

Why was your friend touching the hair of the girl in front of you?

sounds to me like the LA Times is trying to justify their sophomoric actions when they were in college.

i think you're right on!

<<be more careful if you think you might be in the company of an aggressor. Go to clubs with people who will watch your back, people you trust, and don't drink yourself stupid.>>

Argon,

I agree, but this is common sense for ANYONE.

The reason men are not warned is they are not the ones making the accusations: as bad as they may feel about their behavior, after the fact, they are not likely to voice their regret, or to own up to being the party that took things a step too far.

I object only to the idea that the umbrella label "conservatives" are those who propegate such a response. I consider myself socially conservative, and absolutely believe that there is never an excuse for rape. I think it's appauling that anyone would suggest that a woman was "getting what she deserved" or that "what did she expect" just because she dressed provocatively and/or got drunk. Rape is a violent crime against humanity no matter what gender, clothing, or intoxicated status. Anyone who believes that it's the woman's fault is dangerously wrong.

I in no way condone the vitamization of someone in anyway.

that said at the end of the day your the gatekeeper of own person.

theres something to be said for self awarness not everyone you meet is gonna be a moral upstanding member of society and you need to have your senses about you

It has been a while since I have been in college, but not much has changed. I don't drink and have never taken to it, I guess because I like knowing what is going on around me. Many times in college and out at clubs I have seen females too wasted to respond and have had to pose as her friend to get her away from some guy that is trying to get her out of the area to do what he wants with her.

Honestly--it would make me angry at both parties. As a woman I feel I have to be responsible for myself and my body, and not put myself in danger. I always had a policy never to even sleep with someone who is drunk, because I didn't want to be on the other end of 'who are you where am I, I don't remember last night.'

I do feel like some women use alcohol as an excuse to abandon post because they feel they can't be sexual if they aren't pretending it isn't happening. Owning ones sexuality maybe comes with life experience. Maybe these women will come into their own and realize they don't have to be ashamed that they want to have sex, and stop getting drunk to do it.

And don't get me started on ones ability to properly use a condom when bombed out of your mind....

It's as simple as this, "sex is a two way street".

Ok yes one should be careful when one drinks and no one person may control the actions of many. Do I think it is what a women deserves me being myself a women? Hmmm.... No for no one deserves to be punished by such a beautiful thing. To take it to that level just for a hit and to rip it from that serene beautiful moment willfully shared with another is sick. To say it is not just simply disgusting and deserves punishment is insane. If you say it in turn point maybe you yourself have done it?

For if more had on there mind oh wait I could get into trouble for sexing someone who is trashed beyound all resonable doubt. Oh shit that would put a damper on the begining thought of yum a one nighter or even easy target. If more got punished for taking advantage of one whom is so smashed beyound reason; Well then one would not aim for this person would they. No that one might go after some one a little less trashed or even someone whom is sober.

Then in turn we hear the fact she dressed provocative.Well really wow... Ok women do you not enjoy to look nice and get doted apon like a queen I dare say. Hmm oh wait yes for allot of us are to some degree vain. OK women dress like shit and go drink you don't want any ego boosts; no hell no. What was she expecting.... to drink and have fun. Not get fucked and joly someone elses merriment.

Ok yes one must take into fact that every male is not that oh so kind nice guy whom does not just want that one thing. There is that aggressive preditor whom knows his standing and commences the hunt.
Listen or rather read... When someone is taken to that point when they feel violated do they not have just cause to try and get dare I say justice. That sexual expression being that of love or lust must be a willing excersion. For if then other wise it is not art these two are preforming; it is of greed and can cause much hate in ones heart. Or rather it is not a preformance at all it is but one masturbating with some poor unlucky tart right? These are people with feeling shit sucks shit happans does not play in this ball field. Here is someone you may have ruined this wonderful form of dance for. To feel violated and dirty just to feel wronged with something that should be in turn something wonderful and beautiful. To me is just disheartining and should raise question of concern.

If on the mind was swift jail time for a month then we all would be quite leary to persue such a greedy lust. For there are the willing engage one of them and not a tipsy fun goer. For if you wish a fondle that bad then I do not dare say but in turn do say go fuck yourself.

The fact that anyone would believe that because a person has too much to drink somehow makes them free game for anyone with the desire to do whatever they wish to that person without their consent is quite a tell. This behavior, and attitude, is the same as that practiced by those that have sex with children, the old folks bedridden in nursing homes and those that are mentally ill. There is no difference and the fact that anyone would attempt to somehow justify this behavior, whatever your pitiful argument might be, does not exempt you from being that kind of person. Take a good look in the mirror and hope you like who you see.

Why is it that people always think that women should be the ones to protect themselves? Men should be warned as well. I've learned through assault training and education that guys have to be on the look out for certain behaviors that women and men exhibit. If a girl is drunk beyond consenting, that means you're NOT supposed to sleep with her.

Pretty much, guys just need to think before a situation could possibly occur. Yeah, it's common on college campuses, but the numbers are low because people are afraid to turn people in. Girls and guys need to be aware before something could go terribly wrong.

It is in every way unfair to put blame on women for going out in coed situations and having some drinks. Yes, they are gatekeepers, yet women should not be the only gender in a social situation to take responsibility for actions when under the influence. Men should take the responsibility of removing themselves from a "gray area" situation by using common sense.

Although a women should definitely be able to have control and take care of herself in a social atmosphere, she should never be the only one in a situation thinking about consequences. College campuses see too many instances of "gray area rape." Maybe its time for people to equally distribute blame, and not be so completely one-sided and accusatory.

I think it goes unsaid that women shouldn't be the only ones in a social situation to be responsible.

I think it goes unsaid that it is not ok to have sex with someone who is unconsious.

I also think it is a bit naieve to think that if a woman goes out, gets pissy drunk, and raped and presses charges that life won't just go downhill from there. So why not just avoid it in the first place? That's the whole reason why there is a 'grey area' at all. Because the woman wakes up, tries to 'recall' what happened to her. If she does in fact remember then people point the finger at HER for being drunk in the first place. It's not my rules, it's the way it goes down in reality. It's also a REALITY that the rule is that men are NOT held accountable for their actions in this society. Men are NOT told that having sex with drunk women, mentally ill, nursing home patients and children is DISGUSTING AND WRONG. So it is up to US to PROTECT OURSELVES. I wasn't letting men off the hook, I wasn't tisk tisking a woman for having a drink in public. Know your limits ladies. And be safe!

My critique of your criticism of the article is that you don't refute the statistics in the article. The original article researched occurrences of rape on campuses and found that the statistics widely circulated are inaccurate and inflated. Your response doesn't deal with that core point of the article. Therefore I respectfully can't buy into your victim ideology rehash. Perpetuating dishonesty and being critical of personal accountability is a poor retort.

I honestly cannot believe the LA Times even published this article. It is despicable how far one can stretch who is at fault in the case of rape. I agree with Stephen when he says that if someone says no to something, it is plainly a no.

And honestly, attacking college students? Of course, we make bad decisions drinking and what not, but to claim that it is our fault if someone harms us while we are under the influence is clearly absurd. Maybe the writer of the article should focus on attacking rapists rather than victims.

I can sympathize with a woman's right to get as trashed as she wants. Believe me, I love drunk women. But if you play in the mud you're going to get dirty. Does this make it OK? Of course not! Now, I CAN remember a time in school where I was educated on safe sex and rape. I dont know what ill-founded information lyfenlyn is talking about. As for the lack of articles for men on this issue is surprisingly lacking? DUH! Men are reading cars, sports, technology, stocks and porn articles (for the most part ppl).


I believe the real problem is the society of america distinguishing between male and female. Creating an alpha out of men and a breeder of women.

that and booze..
which I love.

I honestly cannot believe the LA Times even published this article. It is despicable how far one can stretch who is at fault in the case of rape....

EXACTLY~~!

That is despicable. Whether or not men are educated on rape or not is the issue. Educate them all you want, the consern is what do they do when faced with the reality of a drunk woman? How do they behave. According to the article not very well.

All I am asking is that people, women in particular be AWARE how the SYSTEM works and will treat them, and not to get caught in that trap. That's all. I didn't create it, it's just the way it is. Make some good choices about how much you drink and who you drink around. That's it.

Why that's percieved as so inflammitory I have no idea.

Until women give up their vestiges of "powerlessness," such as hump-me pumps and taking their husbands' names (or that cute dodge of hyphenating their names), and truly approach men as equals, then some men will continue to treat women as objects.

There's simply no excuse for forcible or coerced sexual encounters. But, the way I see it, there's also no excuse for women giving up their true role as equals in society. Come on, ladies. Be women!

I think it is hilarious that Tracy would take a comment out of context in order to build support against a view point. The conservative view warns against excessive drinking, being in dangerous environments and dressing provocative for both men and women. In fact, there are more warnings for women posted by liberal supporters that warn women against any items previously mentioned.
My political view has nothing to do with my response but I can say this. I love riding street bikes and many of my friends have been severely injured due to poor riding conditions. We don't blame a specific political party for not putting more money into the roads. In fact, the government only responds by mandating helmet laws for us, because we are the group being injured. However, most injuries to bikers are the fault of other drivers not paying attention. Every time we ride there is a risk, just like every time a person goes out drinking there is a risk. Take every precaution you can and don't be careless.

Gray rape? As in "gray area." Duh! O.K., I get it. A woman temporarily renders herself unable to refuse a sexual advance, thus anyone who wants to have sex with her gets to go ahead because the answer is or least might be yes if she can't say no. Hah! That's a good one. Oh, and by the way, as the gatekeeper it is indeed up to her to be capable of definitely saying yes or no at all times, even if exhausted, sick, or under the influence of the GBH some playful friend has put in her drink. Yeah, that's a good one, too. Hah! But I'd say that if you are the gatekeeper, than you're the only one ever who's always had to be on duty 24/7 without so much as an occasional relief shift.

I recall a biology professor who told us that, as far as he knew, humans were the only species for which it is possible for the male to copulate with a female without her cooperation. I.e., that in any other species, the female must assume a receptive posture or penetration is not possible. I can't say if he's really right about that, but his point was that on the one hand the postural possibilities it opens up provide all manner of interesting physio-psycho-social opportunities in the male-female relationship beyond any utility value in terms of reproduction itself, but that it also makes rape possible, which he found extremely distasteful. Unfortunately, in a course on population biology, he was obligated to candidly analyze this characteristic in terms of it's possible evolutionary advantages. But, he emphasized, modern society is not founded on strictly on evolutionary principles and that we are not obligated to behave as our primitive ancestors might have because we now have brains with consciousness and self-awareness that allow us to assume values and make choices that were not available to them, a fact which is subject to it's own evolutionary analysis.

take the gender out of it and you'll see which party is wrong.

The oppressed people of the world are the innocent victims of this socio-economic beast that has religious ideology riding on its back—The Babylon American Dream Machine. However, today many more people are embracing non-violent communication methods—even changing their vocabulary—and embracing new ways of looking at human social relationships that ultimately recognize human needs and validate our basic human trait of compassion—a complete acceptance of all people—regardless of their age, race, class, or gender. “There is a great deal that each of us can do to lessen gendered violence. The most basic, personal choice is to decide that you will not engage in or tolerate violence in your relationships.”

who says sex dont sell.. i am telling ya .. ) sex sells;)
got 26 response;)

rape on campus; ..
wasn't there rape in work place?; not too long ago?;
well... if this keeps up some day we may go down low as sex in the family; incest;) till then?; keep on chugging along;)

There are a lot of clueless people who need to be told. That is why we have laws, for the sheep to follow.