U.S. casualties in Iraq - pick a number, any number...

I posted this response on another submission...
"This is a great topic...and as much as I hate to post any sort of "mainstream" media I feel these videos deserve attention and merit when calculating "costs".
CBS Reported - Veteran Suicide Epidemic
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB2-xER8NS8

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqFJAByDU40

And remember the numbers that the V.A. reports are only for those coming forward and admitting having problems coping.
Now with perspective on all "costs"...is it even worth it?"

You all make me fear for the future of the USA...
What happened to ballsy patriotism? When did it become the goal of journalist to shit on the military?

I see all these numbers of casualties... I see that a young girl was shot accidentally. What I don't see is the exact happenings leading up to the point the girl was shot. I don't see where they're getting their information. I don't see people asking these questions.

I think American's have failed to question. They seem to be so busy blaming the government for their problems they've completely blinded themselves to the threats at hand.

Threat one: Terrorism. For those of you that think it doesn't exist, feel free to visit Pakistan. Announce your are an American everywhere you go. Tell them "I love Islam!!!" Shout it loud and proud. I guarantee you're never coming back. You'll become a video in my "Why we're at war" under the "Beheadings of idiots thinking the terrorists were peaceful people willing to accept diplomacy" sub-folder.

And as far as veteran suicide goes... Anyone know why they do it? Nope. Not one person. So don't you fucking speculate. "It's obviously because Bush fucked their heads up by sending them to war".
Blame Bush because our shit doesn't stink.

And remember the numbers that the V.A. reports are only for those coming forward and admitting having problems coping.
Now with perspective on all "costs"...is it even worth it?"

Yes. It is worth it. If it wasn't worth it you'd be speaking German and all Jews would be gone forever and STILL we'd be fighting Islam.

our shit most definitely stinks and has for a lot longer than georgie jr.
"and STILL we'd be fighting Islam"...
so by your rationale...this is a holy war against all Muslims? This is the attitude that makes ME fear for the future of America...land of the "free".

I agree. American's have failed to question. That's how we've ended up where we are now. Most of journalism has been taken out of news coverage. Most of what we see is simply reporting what someone said or something that happened minus the questions. If we don't hold politicians feet to the coals who will?

And I don't think anyone is denying terrorism doesn't exist but to wage a war on a ill-defined enemy is asinine. Just like the wars on drugs or crime. It just won't work. Terrorism is alive in our world and always will be as long as there are people to be exploited for one reason or another. Islam is not to blame. It's the fanatics in the religion that are the ones who are hurting the population. The same fanatics you'll find in any other religion through out the history of time. What's the saying? A few bad apples ruin the whole bunch.

Yes. We're at war with Islam because Islam is at war with us? Don't believe me? Read the Qu'ran.
No good Muslim can place the country above their religion. No good Muslim can make friends with a non-Muslim. All non-Muslims are to be dhimmis, or killed.

Moslems have been at war with the world since 630 AD.
Every time they've launched a massive scale Jihad to eliminate all non-Moslems there's been an equally warlike Christian/Jewish side.
Not anymore...
Now Christians are the white hat moral sheep the Muslims have been waiting for. Finally, the US citizenry is weak minded, and worse weak defensively.



Also I've been researching what I've heard from troops for hours... and nothing.
The truth is Al-Qaeda WAS in Iraq...
The problem is you all won't know about that for some time. There's been some information pre-dating the invasion of Iraq that Al-Qaeda actually planned to stage it as the Palestine of the war on the US.

A proxy war.
And that is what it has become. The proxy war on Militant Islamic-Fascists.



When I say there's no such thing as a peaceful good Muslim I mean it... What I won't say is there's no such thing as a peaceful Muslim that we all agree is good but wouldn't be killed by radicals in an instance for being so.

Devo... I should also mention.
The majority of Muslims INSIDE the US are the "good apples". I'd seriously have to ask you to reconsider the "few bad apples" part...
I've yet to meet an Egytian, Pakistani, Syrian, Iranian, or citizen(current) of Labanon that didn't want to see another genocide of the "Zionists" aka the Jews though they'll never admit it... because they think their Jewish friends will sit by idly as another several million die just because they don't see eye to eye...

as soon gorgie jr. is gone we will see a change,
i promise, i dream about it .
we must.
i don't know
i feel so bad too,
and i don't know what to do.

no-mo-bush-stupido-inda-white-casa-de-los-pulga's...Fin.

Yeah when Bush is out of office, we'll see the continuation of the fight on terror with the same losses (actually likely more if we surrender and retreat to fight on US soil) We'll see higher taxes going to pay for a shittier quality of health care with no option about doing so. We'll see things we (the people) have control of now given to the government to delegate for the Greater Good (comrade). We'll see people saying "My insurance is too expensive, will you please create a whole new government entity to (waste money) will you please give me the same insurance I already had? Will you be the middleman?"

The US is incapable of so many things in your eyes yet you think they can socialize healthcare HA! It'll be like the IRS. You need emergency care? Alright fill out form 1028 then sign here here here here here here: shall I continue? here here here and here. Also I'll need you to fill out these subsequent forms. *hands mound of paperwork to dying person* Then the doctor will be with you when the patient with ticket number CA9930 is drawn. Your number is CB2993 good luck sir!

The worst part is... Anything that is made government controlled STAYS so. We can't just be like "Oops my bad, this really is a shitty system. Why didn't we see that when all those people from all those countries with free health care were coming here to get operations? Hmm, I guess we'll take our old system please Uncle Sam!" Then as ALL governments EVER created will do, Uncle Sam will say "Sorry, but the greater good..."
PWNT

I think the simple answer to that question would be too many.

Going off topic to respond to Bracholi's ideas about nationalized health care, Bracholi, you are partially correct. Nationalized health care could end up like the IRS or the DMV in how a persons health care is handled. However, it is also possible, and more likely, that if we as a country actually embraced and worked on nationalized health care that we would see a working system that is similar to the many health care systems in Europe.

The scene of, "Holy crap! This young womans appendix is going to burst. Get her into surgery and solve the problem, then afterwards we can bother her with the redundant paperwork when her life is not in danger." is much more likely than, "Ok, her appendix is about to burst. Fill out these eighteen forms, we'll process them for five hours, and then we will put you through to the surgeon if you meet the requirements." Sadly the ladder situation happens more often now in the United States then it should. People are turned down or denied needed medical procedures because their insurance won't cover the procedure or because they cannot afford medical insurance. What is even better is when the insurance companies attempt to to give their customers the shaft in order to make a profit. And yes, you can claim that those are just urban myths or that they don't happen as often as claim. Both my parents work in a hospital, and I'm telling you that yes, people get the shaft and they get it that often. Hell, my parents are insured with good coverage and the insurance company has made unreasonable attempts to screw them out of coverage on numerous occasions.

Now, getting back on topic of the war on terror, or as it is more dominantly now, the war in Iraq. First off, yes, Al Qaeda was present in Iraq; however, it was by not choice or preference of Saddam. Saddam hated Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda hated Saddam. The only reason Saddam didn't forcefully remove Al Qaeda was because he did not have the military means to do so. On top of that, even though Al Qaeda was present in Iraq before we invaded, its presence was no where near as profound as it currently is.

Still, we are avoiding the original reason about why we were persuaded to invade Iraq, because of weapons of mass destruction. Yes, Saddam had weapons of mass destruction 20 or so years ago. Just about all of those weapons were chemical, like mustard gas and the like. The chemical weapons that Saddam had 20 or so years ago had a shelf life of about 3 years. So 17 or so years ago, the chemical weapons that Saddam had became chemically neutral and therefor useless as WMD's.

Now, Bracholi is correct that it would be much more troublesome if we were to just pull out of Iraq and the middle east as a whole. However, short of a draft we do not have the forces to continue our campaign and it is very unlikely that the United States public would be anything but a rioting mass in the face of a draft. To solve this conundrum we need to swallow our pride and ask for U.N. aid. And I'm not talking about asking the U.N. to just send us some troops. That would result in their rightful denial to aid us. We need to offer to let the U.N. be involved on a massive level. Sure we would let the U.N. make important decisions about how the war on terror is run, but we would also get much needed "fresh blood" in this rebuilding of a nation and we could probably get the U.N. to pick up some of the tab that this war is costing.

As old a concept as it is, I can still support the soldiers without supporting War. Right? I'll support them and welcome them home when it's over, if it's ever over.
My patriotism is intact. I still believe in America.
A large part of being a US citizen, and it's biggest draw, is the right to believe what we want and say so. We still come out on top in that regard.
Hopefully, in the future, assuming we still have one, we can lead by example without resorting to War or interference.
4,000 is 4,000 too many.
Brought to you by someone who's damn tired of being labeled, "UnAmerican", for not standing by this administration's actions.

Hmm... Why don't people just get over the fact that Iraq is a part of the GWOT. You seemed to have missed this part "There's been some information pre-dating the invasion of Iraq that Al-Qaeda actually planned to stage it as the Palestine of the war on the US."

I'll explain it simply. Iraq was Al-Qaeda's plan, not Bush's. It was Al-Qaeda's proxy war on the US. They lured Bush in. The WDM intelligence was not a forgery by the US. It was a handout by Al-Qaeda operatives.

You'll read that from me now. You'll read about it 10 years from now in a book explaining what lead to the global war on terror and think "Wow, I really needed to get my head out of my ass".

Of course I don't think the USA will be around as we know it. I think we'll be defeated for the same reason we were in Vietnam. Because there's a large percentage of American's that take freedom for granted. American's have become pussy apologists that fail to see through propaganda passed to them by those whose only care is to see Democrats in power. It's been a huge power play all along.

As I said it's all about the greater good. Communism and Terrorism working hand in hand to create so much mistrust of the US government that the government is forced to do what it does best, defend itself in gross fashion.

If you're for the soldiers you'd support the war. Because to support one without the other is telling the troops that they are wrong. If the troops really thought it was a big lie and bullshit they could have simply said no en masse. They really do have that power as US citizens first, soldiers second.

I don't have to support War and you can't make me!
Nyah!

Which would you rather. A thousand U.S. citizens (men women and children) die due to a terrorist attack or 1000 trained soldiers fighting and die for their country. Do you want the defenseless to die or the ones who could actually stop their own death?

Exactly... but people only see the profiteering going on... they don't actually see through to the bright side. At least mujahideen aren't running through US streets mowing down civilians... though honestly I wish they would... Maybe American's would get their patriotic balls back...

The wars are haveing absolutley no impact on Terrorists ability or serious plans of killing American's on American soil.

If terrorist have serious plan for attackinf us on our soils what would stop them? Don't over estimate the role of intelegence...It was "luck" that we didn't put the pieces together prior to 9/11 and it's "luck" if we have prevented any attacks since then.

We can't protect the Shopping Mall yet alone the country. Are we listing to the message of current events?

If we attain peace by killing all of our enemies then only the "violent" will remain. What a peaceful picture that is.

A close relative of mine (me) served a tour in Iraq and one in Afghanistan (just returned 2 weeks ago). We are not sacrificing ourselves to make America safer. We are sacraficing our lives for each other (fellow soldiers!)

You are only as safe as your neighbor keeps you...think about it!

Love all of your comments...blah...blah..blah

It's great to be back in "wonderland" wih all of the you "realist" and "patriots" :-)

you people cant seriously believe that there are only 4000 killed?! this is vietnam math at its best.

i saw a website a last year from idleworm.com that showed at that time about 8000 dead. what you have to realise is that they only count the ones killed in an actual action, on the ground and not in transit. those that die from their wounds in germany, those that went out and never woke up are not considered KIA and are not apart of the official death toll. on this website, the dude confirmed every single death and the events leading to it. i mean seriously...-4000 dead out of 35000 wounded. thats less than 8%!! give me a break!

this dude last year had over 8000 dead including those that never awoke from comas or bled out from internal injuries, or that died in operations from inside the green zone. they are not listed as combat fatalities. I know three people that have lost family members from this retarded lie of a war. and i think because the media doesnt cover it for fear of sounding all unpatriotic and losing ratings is a war crim in itsself! i support the iraqi peoples desire to get the US out of its country and fight for its self. the US's isreali style bombing is the reason they are tripping like they are. and if i were there, id probably be doing the same RED DAWN style insurgent fighting too. americans deserve what they are getting because you simply dont care. about life.

Where the hell does everyone get their facts? and which are propoganda? How the hell can you tell it's propaganda?

Bracholi, I think that Varex_Sythe is right about your horror situation of "I'ma die and I have 20forms to go through!" being already the case. I think fixing healthcare is worth a shot. I think we can look at other countries that have healthcare and see what it's all about and why it's so succesful. But then again, I heard a Canadian complain about the huge bill they got from a pregnancy, so not everyone in canada loves free healthcare.

No one likes the DMV (actually, they were kinda friendly, but I haven't had huge problems, and they do take a long arse time). Other countries have shorter lines for their DMV equivalents but they charge like thousands of dollars to get a license. As a result, people wait till they're more secure financially, walk, bike, take public transportation, untill they can afford the license.

I read that in an article. Now why would we still have such a shitty DMV if there's better solutions? Could it be becasuse the auto-petrol industry wants people to own cars and waste gas? Is it because no one in that section of the government wants to give up power? How do I know the article wasn't biased? How do I know our DMV isn't the best way to handle our roads?

How do any of you know that you got your sources from credible evidence? And how can we make sure of all the facts.

BBC, CNN or FOX NEWS COrrespondent: "I have here with me some one from the Islamic Middle East. Sir, what do you have to say?"

With a heavy middle easter accent: "Death to America! Death to everyone!!! You will all DIE!! Allah is great!! I will get 50 virgins for blowing myself up your ass!"

Correspondent: "There, you have it, the voice of Islam"


Aljazeera journalist: "Here I have someone from the Christian west, sir, what do you have to say?"

Wearing a KKK robe, speaking with a heavy southern accent: "Well, I'd like to say that god hates all the towel heads. I'd like to say death to all the blackies, brownies and hindus from Iraq. Yeeeehaw!! What, they aint forhead dotted hindus? Well they look/sound the same to me!"

Al-jazeeran journalist: "there you have it, the voice of the christian west."

WHERE"S THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah, here it is. Lodged between my car seat and my door. *unrwaps sheet of papers* *reads: "humans need to learn to get along, or be doomed to "

WHAT? You think it's that easy!? They belive in Alah! How crazy is that! They deserve to die!! *then gets blown up in a car bomb attack*

Bleh, I think I need to read the Korahn for myself. I think that would be a step in the right direction.

Bracholi, just to refresh up your mind.
1. Iraq had zero terrorist before US invasion and Sadam had absolutely no link with Ben laden

2.Muslim people had been leaving in a lot of countries and for centuries peacefully.

US been invading, plotting, killing all around the world for its own agenda, who's far from freedom and peace, maybe all those people hating US had reasons due to this hostils foreign policy it has been following since WW2 and cold war!

You can't piss off people so long without getting some shit back!

US government have been lying to all of us for years, on Iraq they broke record by far form the very reason to the cost and as we can see know to its future... and yes, as shameful it is, medias have been more than just relaying but been the good soldiers, special edition, reports and all, Bushes little puppets. they truly share a big responsabillity to what happen, aren't they the one who suppose to be neutral, report the truth, expose lies and scandals?

We live in a very sad and shameful world but blaming muslim and their Qran is too easy and too wrong.

Time we face ourself, time we learn why so much hate, what creates it and see how to fix it

Christ, no wonder you guy's are in the shit with some of the attitudes which some of the 'Red Necks' have displayed.

I dont know if many Americans can see beyond their nose, but your standing within the world has plummeted dramatically.

Once you were known as the land of the free, now we all know you as the land of he oppresed, where money talks and the general population are treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed manuer).

Many of the worlds citizens (many which upto a few years ago would have supported America) now dispise America for the lies which it has perpitrated over the course of the Iraqi war, not only for the deception which your current administration used, but for the total disregard for basic human rights.

But, I hear many of you say, "But we were attacked first, ah think again, America, through the CIA has been waging wars upon many regims, goverments and groups all over the world for decades, eventually, one of these group WAS going to get annoyed enough to counter attack, it was your niavety that it would never happen on your soil.

Please, please, please America stand up for yourselves and fight the opressive regime which is the Bush/Cheney administration, dont let these war mongers dictate what life you live!

Your founding fathers would be agast at they decay which is your democracy today.

yes Mr wolf, totally agree
And in case, Sadam, whatever prick he was, never attacked US!

The questions that everybody should have ask after 9/11 is WHY? why people ready to kill themself to hurt you? what has been done to them to make them what they are now?

US, you are acting like Alfa teenager, you hit me I hit you, time to grow up,
a

to refresh your mind
the 8 key players on the iraq war, then and now

very good report form bbc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7297592.stm

Alexandrak, though I mostly agree with you I am going to risk sounding like a "know it all" and correct you. You stated, "1. Iraq had zero terrorist before US invasion and Sadam had absolutely no link with Ben laden." This is only partially correct. It is true that Saddam had, more or less, nothing to do with Bin Laden; however it is not true that Iraq had zero terrorists before the United States invasion. Terrorists did reside within Iraq, just like I have a couple of gophers in my back yard. Saddam did not want the terrorists in his country, but he did not have the means to keep his country under his control and forcefully remove the terrorists at the same time. Granted, I'm not saying that Saddam was a good person. The relationship between Saddam and Islamic terrorists was similar to the relationship between Hitler and Stalin during WW2. Stalin was an evil dictator, as was Hitler, but the two political parties clashed violently. Given that hind sight is 20-20, it might have been better to once again befriend Saddam in order to be able to keep the country more stable while also removing the terrorist threat.

well if you say that, then that means that the united states is a terrorist nation because it has terrorists in its military. which im sure it does based on the definition of terrorism today!

there are 300 million people here, and you are going to tell me that not one of them is a terrorist? so that argument is flawed! the fact remains that there was NO ISSUE OF TERRORISM in iraq. iraq was a secular nation..its medical system was the best in the middle east until the us sanctions destroyed it. tariq aziz...remember him? is a christian. they had a small but noticeable jewish population that was not harmed...well they were as harmed as much as any jewish population anywhere, but not singled out. And i think to this day the only so-called terrorist are the regular population that is pissed off at the us for jacking up its country! point blank.

remember any aggressor force that has any kind of opposition will determine those forces to be terrorist! the aggressor is always right, and the opposition is always againt the "good will" that the aggressor force is trying to exert! how can you people not see that. I hope the IRAQIS mop up the us forces really! get them out of their country! i would respect the us troops that say, wait...this is stupid, and walk off the job. thats not cowardace, that takes more balls than anything. just walk off the line and go...well they cant go home, but go somewhere...its better than murdering because someone with an evil agenda says that you should kill those terrorist, when all you see are towns people!

no brainer really!

JUST STOP AND LISTEN M U S L I M S WHO ARE TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING.They dont hate the peopele ,they HATE unfair US policies of the goverment.NOT only MUSLIMS .all world is turning againts US.
ISRAEL is CASHING in US expence.
EXPENDING in palestine land,Building WALL in PALESTINE Land at palestine land expence.
One day AMERICANS will see the truth of ISRAELs wrons but will be too late.

Anybody want to colonize the moon with me? It'll be a love fest orgy.

Honest, the initial problem with Muslim terrorists is that they tend to be fundamentalists. However it can also be argued that the Nazis were Catholic/Christian fundamentalists. Anyhow getting back to the point. The terrorists that first attacked the United States on 9/11 did so based upon a twisted version or misconception of their holy texts. To them it did not matter whether or not we had actually wronged them, they attacked us because they believed/believe that they are fighting a holy war against heathens. Granted, having been on the short end of the international stick probably made it easier.

Unfortunately things aren't going to get much better than this hole we've dug ourselves into until we stop thinking about the profit that can be made in the middle east and start taking action about how to actually fix the place. And fixing all of that religious and tribal conflict is going to take generations upon generations of effort. Its not going to happen overnight and it is something that people generally don't show much interest in because that kind of change is slow and, if successful, uneventful.