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A new war wages in Iraq –– a numbers war

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President Bush says that the Iraq war must go on despite the "high cost in lives..." But how high is high? There's a new war waging in Iraq, and it's a numbers war. Exactly how high is the death toll after 5 years of fighting? According to this article, the US has washed its hands of counting the civilian dead ever since the response to the Vietnam war. Now nobody knows exactly how many people have lost their lives as a result of the Iraq war. Estimates vary widely. "We do know that more than two million have fled abroad. Another 1.5 million have sought safety elsewhere in Iraq. We know that the combined horror of car bombs, suicide attacks, sectarian killing and disproportionate US counter-insurgency tactics and air strikes have produced the worst humanitarian catastrophe in today's world. But the exact death toll remains a mystery.

"We do know that more than two million have fled abroad. Another 1.5 million have sought safety elsewhere in Iraq. We know that the combined horror of car bombs, suicide attacks, sectarian killing and disproportionate US counter-insurgency tactics and air strikes have produced the worst humanitarian catastrophe in today's world. But the exact death toll remains a mystery."

My question is this: do numbers matter in war? Is it any better if only 100,000 have died instead of 1,000,000?
abbym0308

14 responses // A new war wages in Iraq –– a numbers war

  • http://current.com/items/88871340_not_like_the_show_m_a...
    Read this. Look at this picture. Leave your thoughts.
    abbym0308
  • God this is so horrible.

    The iraq war and vietnam war have so many similarites.
    It's going to be a curious thing to see how this is written in textbooks in the future.
    katharinekov
  • one death is too many. the term 'collateral damage' is for those lacking a soul.

    bush's speech was well timed to remove the focus from obama's important discourse yesterday.

    him coming out to say that the iraq war was a success is akin to standing in front of sign that says: MISSON ACCOMPLISHED...
    phillyphil
  • Sorry, as long as they continue to be a hotbed for breeding terrorists the collateral damage is not only acceptable but necessary. Unconventional enemies use unconventional tactics such as hiding among the innocent civilian population. Once the innocent civilian population has had enough of it they will take up their own arms against the terrorist organizations such as hamas, al queda, etc. and purge them from their midst in order to stop what is going on. If the middle eastern countries would simply police themselves we would have no reason to be there in the 1st place.
    Liberal_Extinction
  • "once the innocent civilian population has had enough..."

    are we empowering the iraqi civilians with our presence on tossing gasoline on the fire of sectarian violence? why is the US the moral police that deem other countries (as long as they have strategic importance) in need of our "aid"?
    collateral damage only becomes an available term when things go incredibly off course.
    phillyphil
  • I'm still waiting for the major US medias to take more consideration in the total numbers of death and severe injuries, not just US losses. As this country expands to include more citizens of the world, we should be seeing and hearing a more honest representation of amassed casualties from all over. In my mind, the general US public would react more strongly to this horrific mess.
    Then again, I'm running into folks that need to be reminded that we are in a war. That's very hard to take.
    Numbers matter, if they're of everyone affected.
    Yep...still waiting.
    huntre
  • One is too many. When it's a friend or family member, who cares about the numbers? Everyone killed was someone's son or daughter.
    JoQ
    • JoQ
    • 6 months ago
  • Should numbers count? How else can war be quantified? By the money spent? For the GOP it is a winning or losing game that does not factor in lives destroyed. So in that case, when I hear the question " Does it really matter how many people have fled, or died, does it matter, all that matters is that we win" I liken it to sports, how will you know who is winning if there is no score. I hope to god people start sending people to DC rather than Politicians. A lot of people hate lawyers, so stop sending double talk to the capital. If some one says they will stop the war, and they are a lawyer, you better dount it
    jlaboy
  • We lost over 300 men and women a day, 300 A DAY for years, during Vietnam conflict THERE IS NO COMPARISON to this war!!!!!!!!

    NOT COUNTING "colaterial damage," That is only counting US SOLDIERS!

    GOD rest each of their souls! on both sides!
    karrde
  • Yes, I think there is a comparrison. It starts with the Gulf of Tonkin and WMD, and should end with a mass exodus of us troops
    jlaboy
  • 300 LOST SOLDIERS A DAY!

    NO Comparison to Vietnam, AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If we left today, in less then ten years, it would be another Darfur. And then folks would be screaming, "Why aren't you doing something about it?" Let's finish the job, and do what it takes to finish it, what ever that is, and then bring the men and women home.

    My gosh we are still in Japan and Germany!!!!!!!!!!!
    We are there but like every other modern war we have been in we have always given the governmental control back to the people.

    Last I heard they were doing pretty well. But it took alot from us, alot of our blood, sweat, and tears, for them to get where they are today!
    karrde
  • 30 years after the fall of Siagon-
    Three decades in which the Vietnamese communist government and proxies killed 7.5 million people.

    That would be the honorable thing to do, right!

    Here is where I got this figure.
    http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/dickeymf/_Years_aft...


    Folks have a short memory. Here let me help jog your memory of post-WWII Germany.

    Here is an article on a reistance group in Germany:

    What did the Werewolf do? They sniped. They mined roads. They poured sand into the gas tanks of jeeps. (Sugar was in short supply, no doubt.) They were especially feared for the “decapitation wires” they strung across roads. They poisoned food stocks and liquor. (The Russians had the biggest problem with this.) They committed arson, though perhaps less than they are credited with: every unexplained fire or explosion associated with a military installation tended to be blamed on the Werwolf. These activities slackened off within a few months of the capitulation on May 7, though incidents were reported as late as 1947.

    here is where I got this:
    http://northshorejournal.org/index.php/2003/07/quagmire...
    karrde
  • there are yes, far fewer deaths in this war. but that is just what happens over time. war is just as deadly, but fewer die. we learn from our mistakes and then apply that knowledge at the next war. every military on earth(hopefully) learns from their mistakes. its how we survive.

    sometimes i consider this worse than vietnam. other times i think vietnam was worse. and then other times they are both totally different types of wars. the world we live in is so complex that you cant compare one war to the next. if you want to have a sound opinion on the war itself, please, go experience it first hand.
    donny_dark_o
  • to anyone : read the "COIN" manual - if you really care to know how US forces are trying to fight this war - and pay close attention to the role arabic speaking servicemen are supposed to play "on the ground" , and then take into consideration how many of them there actually are - and then imagine trying to win an "asymmetrical" war against "insurgents" fighting within a country where they know the local language , look exactly like everyone else , and are usually carrying around nothing more than a weapon and an extra clip or two ( and can draw on fresh recruits daily ) while US soldiers hump around shit-loads of gear and stand out like peacocks - if this is a war of attrition , make up your own mind as to how it could logically be expected to turn out .
    malathion

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