Critical Decision Time for Humans: Earth's Kyros Moment, learn focus through jubilation chants

Okay, I definitely acknowledge the crisis we're in, and that we as a species need to change our ways if we hope to live, but the narrator in that video was RIDICULOUSLY boring. I couldn't get past the three minute mark without ripping the headphones out of my ears. And way,way, way, way, way, way, way too many links! Is that the citations list from a wikipedia article? I did, however, watch the bit about jubilation. That was one of the most hilarious things I've seen in a long while. If that is a regular occurance among Lutherans, I'm sorry. I would HATE to endure that every time I wanted to worship. This is a joke! And did you really need to enter 130 categories? Unnecessary.

I see you call yourself a "radical atheist" and don't believe in any God.
You also make numerous inaccurate assumptions and put the word hate in capital letters.
What does that say about your pshyci?
It's fine if you don't like the video and believe your life is a cosmic accident - but put some more thought into your comments rather than your opinion on the perfect number of links and keywords.
It appears your comments on this and other videos are merely a way to get noticed rather than fostering debate on the topics.
I suspect and hope that deep down you have a higher goal.
I commend your efforts and desire to become involved - it’s great to hear from people with opposing viewpoints.
Your youthful interest in getting involved in debate is a good thing.
I suggest you make thoughtful substantive comments about the messages and opinions in videos not sophomoric criticism about non-related issues.
For example - if you actually tried Dr. Cairns jubilation technique as a way to focus your thoughts - and it did not work for you - explain why and offer a way you find is good to focus your energies.
There’s a lot to be said for shooting from the hip but it can make you appear insecure in your beliefs as it lacks substance.
For Dr. Cairns it’s a useful way to focus his thoughts before taking his battle to raise environmental awareness on the road.
By the way - he is not Lutheran but his interfaith message that included jubilation techniques were taught at an interfaith conference of clergy from numerous religious traditions.
It would have been easy to disregard your comments as an attention-getting tirade - but I sense you truly would like to enter intelligent debates.
Use your grey matter instead of blather.

I am an atheist, and I would hate to endure said activity. I capitolize hate only because this medium offers no other form of emphasis. The implications of my psychological state made by my statements are utterly insignificant. I do not say such things, nor criticize religion, initiate argument, or cause any form of contraversy to satiate some inner desire to be noticed. I do this because I enjoy gaining the perspective of debatees, which is, in a way, my form of "jubilation." I would, though, consider my form far more linear and less preposterous. I would never encourage anyone to consider my opinion absolute, it is merely my own perspective, and I completely concede others' right to think differently. I do, however, think I am right. Everyone thinks they're right. My comments a cry for help. They simply regard the fact that a.) you have far more links than any sane person would consider necessary (or consider looking at for that matter) b.) you have far more categories listed than are necessary (most don't have more than a few previous submitions) c.) the narration in the video was too boring to tolerate, and d.) objectively, Cairns's methods of accomplishing things seem quite comical/supersticious. If you'd rather not engage in petty argument, don't.

To dco,

Glad you found your own form of jubilation.

Interesting that you think the number of "links" and "categories" is even worth arguing - glad you have detemined the number "any sane person " would use.

To call Dr. Cairn's jubilation "supersticious" makes me think you'd been the perfect juror at the Salem Witch trials.

You obviously are not open to new things or ideas - only ideas that conform to your narrow view of things.

When we discussed making this video - we predicted there would be people who feared new ideas.

One thing that is not new - are people who choose to simplistically belittle things they don't understand and/or have not tried.

But I respect your opinion and hope you have a great day.
I know I will.

Well I just don't understand why you would spend all the time to type in each of those 130 categories, nor the 40 links. It doesn't seem sensible to me. Can you offer any reasoning? It seems you would at least think about it. And I call Cairn's chanting supersticious in the same way anything would be supersticious. I cannot see any potential benefit from a minute and a half of moaning. Why does he need to do this in order to prepare for environmentalism? It simply seems superfluous. I'm plenty open-minded, but I refuse to accept the plausability of something like jubilation, without substantial evidence. If I decided that jumping up and down mooing once daily would eventually turn me into a wallabi, would you believe it simply because I do? No, you wouldn't. I was simply voicing my frustration caused by Cairn's odd beliefs. Assuming you are a Christian, your view is far narrower than mine, seeing as you reject all religions but your own, simply because... well, I don't actually know why. At least I make a uniform statement. I'll agree my belittlement was not necessary, but sharing is caring, right?

Yes sharing is caring.
I am glad you are commenting even if we don't agree.
We are just the opposite of rejecting all other religions.

All of the Turtle Island project events are ecumenical, interfaith.
I also volunteer for the Earth Keepers in which I do volunteer media work for 9 different religions/faith communities - including United Universalist, Bahai, Jewish, Buddhist and several forms of mainstream Christianity like Catholic, Lutheran, United Methodist Presbyterian etc.

We have also made contacts with several other religions/faiths.
Everyone is welcome.
The pastors who founded the Turtle Island Project are from different faiths (Lutheran and United Church of Christ) - and Rev. Hubbard is married to a pastor from another religion.

The TIP founders (and myself) believe that we all pray to the same higher power - divine being - God-Allah or what ever the name given by a particular faith.

I am a news reporter - so a bit skeptic about anything I can not see - but beileve there is a higher power because of things that have happened in my life.

But there are many thinghs that can bel believed if if not witnessed: if the ground is wet in the morning and there are puddles - I believe there was rain even if I did not see the rain.

If all this (The universe) is a cosmic accident - it's a mighty intricate, diverse, amazing, beautiful and unexplainable accident.

And I ask - what happened before there was anyting to cause the big bang - what created the big bang.
the chicken and the egg kind of thing - what came first and if it came first how did it get there.

Unlike some of the people I volunteer with, I believe some portions of the Bible are meant as lessons - not as literal 100 percent fact.

But I respect their beliefs - just like I respect your right to be an atheist.
I would not hold atheism against anybody.

Actually - one of my favorite jokes is: "I was an atheist until I found out I was God" - can not remember where I heard it - maybe Mad Magazine.

To answer your question about links/keywords etc - I put the links in for those who want more information or to see where some of the photos in the video came from.

It's also a form of crediting the person who took/created or uploaded a particular photo or graphic - since I used a photo from their website.

Most of the pictures in my videos I took but in some cases I use what others have put out.

As for the Catagories or Keywords - it takes patience - but I add a lot because it helps spread the word about the particular video.

In past year I have edited numerous videos on many topics including the Manoomin Project, the Michigan Earth keeper Initiative and the new one about to start is the Earth Healing Initiative.
All are interfaith environment and civil rights related groups here in Michigan

I try to put in every keyword/category that's related. That's why web designers have categories or keywords - to make it easier for others to find a video.

IBy design - each keyword or category means at lkeast one more person will have the chance to see the video - and if they choose not to watch or disagree - that's fine.
Keywords or categories also make it easier to find in an internet search.

That is literally why I take the time to add the categories - and the links.

Our other big message besides the environment is fighting racism against all people.

On the humorous side:
I have been burned on the extensive keyword/category thing:

Once I took the time to put in about 150 categories (about 45 minutes) - and the power went out - erasing all my work before it got uploaded.

Another time - the page timed out - but same effect - all my work was lost - time wasted.

Bummer about the categories. I still don't really get it, but I digress.
I had not commented on your tolerance of other faiths, but rather, your ability to choose ONE religion. As I said, it seems more narrow-minded of you to do this, than of me to consider all of them, and come to the same conclusion. I didn't articulate this well, but it's hard to word correctly, without sounding like an arrogant asshole. This is, of course, assuming that I am not an arrogant asshole, but then it doesn't matter, does it? ANYWAY, to clarify, I may seems ignorant to you, but the feeling is mutual (no offense intended). Back to the point. You, like many others, imply that I think all *this* is an accident. I do not. Before the big bang, the universe still existed. it was simply infinitecimally condensed. Some event caused it to rapidly expand, and this is still happening. To my knowledge, the universe is infinite in both time and space. I may be wrong, but this is my understanding. As for following events, natural selection, for instance, is commonly called "accidental," or "chance." It is not so. It is a natural, complex, and sensible process, not coincidence. I won't patronize you with an explanation of the process; I'll assume you're familiar. You analogize Creation to a rainstorm. You imply that our surroundings are evidence of creation, as puddles are evidence of rain. This analogy is not complete, because all evidence points towards scientific theories, not creation. If the streets were drowned under six feet of water, levies torn down, and no cosmological sign of rain, and you assumed rain was still the perpetrator, it would be a more complete analogy; the rational conclusion would be that a flood occured by a breach in said levies. I still don't like the analogy, however, that's irrelovent. I can't think of anything else to scold you on.

The rainstorm was merely an example - defintely not the best argument or analogy for the point - not sure what is.
My point is you don't have to witness or see something to believe it exists.

I don't think you are arrogant or an asshole - just someone with a different point of view.

I believe in science - and I believe evolution.

I think a divine being created it all to begin with - and nature then took over - because of the genes and/or abilities that are provided by God.

As I said, I don't think every word in the Bible is meant to be 100 percent literal - rather some parts are meant as moral examples or based on a true story.

Either way - it was written by humans who make mistakes and translated and re-translated resulting in a loss of some meanings even if it a small change in original meaning.

There are just some things we don't know - and our opinions are foirmed by the "experts" we choose to believe.

You said before "before the big bang, the universe still existed" - and I ask what created that pre-existent universe - the very very beginning of everything - time and space.

We don't know - no one does.
That's where faith comes in.

And I think the intricate nature of everything is an argument that a divine soul (aka God, Allah) exists.

Most people pick up the religion of their parents - and many religions believe in one divine power.
That's why I believe we all pray to the same divine power - we may have different paths but they lead to the same God.

I think all religions have some truths.

I don't think a person has to believe everything in the Bible is 100 percent completely literal and accurate to be a Christian.

Those types of religious arguments are why there are many forms (faith traditions) within Christianity.

Another question we don't know - for those of us who believe in God - how was God created?

If the universe was created by a chemical reaction or something - what created those chemicals etc.
I think you understand what I mean.

For me, the answer that seems probable is a all knowing - divine force or power.

Personally I think the most important part of faith is believing there is a loving, caring God (that doesn't mean that bad things can't and won't happen).

I don't think aetheists are damned, evil, wrong.
Faith is based on a belief - and so is aetheism.
The real truth is neither one knows for sure - and we are influenced utimately by the beliefs of others.
We use our own brain to decide who and what we believe.

Back the keywords/categories - I am still not clear if you understand the purpose for them in the first place (not my use of them) - or maybe you do.

They help others find the videos.
Just about all video sites (and other sites like blogs) have a place for people to put in keywords.

Yes - I make much more use of them than others - but I use them strategically.

I don't use just any keyword/category - I have a reason for each one - or each group of keywords (aka categories).

As for links - in addition to reasons I stated earlier - I figure anyone who wants more info can use the link - or not.
To me it's no biggie - and they are the last thing I put in my scripts.

But I too - digress.

I think your bio indicates you are in high school - and I commend you for taking the time to think about things.

We are lucky to live in a country where - as a rule - your ideas are not held against you - or at least you can't be tortured or punished for thinking differently than others.

(Chronologically) About the analogy, my point was that if you don't see something, and the evidence points to one answer, you should not assume another simply because it has been introduced to you. You propose that God created the building blocks which allowed for the afforementioned natural processes, but I don't see how this is plausible. Origin of life is a highly probable event, given the number of planets in our universe. Since our well positioned home formed, it has merely been a matter of time, before mineral deposits reacted to form basic prokaryotes. I would argue that God was not necessary in any of the events leading to... now. Of course, the big bang is the most difficult of these. The going theory is that before the universe began expanding (the beginning of expansion was the "big bang"), it was an infinitecimally condensed form, infinite/eternal in its singularity. It seems far more likely that a dynamic, enternal universe exists, than a static, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being. Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is the most likely; the former being far simpler, it is most likely. The God figure is simply too complex for me to buy. I'd take a multiverse over God any day. True, I don't know this; I don't claim to. Especiall with such theoretical jargon. It might as well be idle speculation, but at least there is eevidence for my theory. The other thing, is that my idea is far more malleable. The next theory that pops up, if it fits better as an explanation, I will side with. On the other side, most religious individuals would remain staunch, despite how much counter-evidence amounts. My thinking is scientific, not absolute. The bible is either true, or a novel. As I see it, it would not be written ifit were actually so ridiculously difficult to read. If it truely has been distorted from God's word, why hasn't he done anything? That's a little irresponsible, and I think it makes him liable for my damnation. Saying that the bible has been jumbled makes the entire thing incredible. How do you know what is true, and what is fable, and what is refuse from translation? You simply don't? Tat's no way to live your life. In accordance with a book of half-truths, half-lies, and, well, outright blasphemy. To any banquet theists, pick-and-choosers, apologists, or anyone else, I think you need to pick a side. Either you apply the folly of man/dilluted message/moral guidance thinking to all of the bible, or none, because if you are choosing yourself, why do you need the bible in the first place? You have the moral authority to decide what's good and what's bad, so why decide what's good and bad from a book that tells you specifically what's good and bad? You say that the intricate nature of everything is an argument for deity. How so? Then the intricate nature of the deity needs a super deity to explain IT, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on... God does not solve the infinite regress. NOTHING does. Hence the term infinite. If everything has a cause, saying "this caused everything" makes no sense. Making up a solution to avoid consternation typically does not work. As in this case, God is simply a code name for the unknown. I readily admit that the fundamental forces which govern the universe, have always existed. They are eternal. Of course I am in no position to say this, as I have no eddicayshun on the matter, nor am I old enought to have witnessed this infinity. If you believe any of your religion, then I am damned. If you think that my "belief" makes fact, then your belief means nothing. This position confounds my senses, as it seems, by saying it, one denounces their beliefs as having any importance or superiority, in which case I don't see the reason.

(ran out of room) You also say that atheism is based on beliefs. No. It simply means "without god." I am so. I have reasoned, rationalized, reflected, and researched, and my methodical conclusion is that God does not exist. I am irreligious, and this is not a belief. It is a conviction. Your last statement reminds me of a survey I once read, which statistically showed atheists as the most hated minority in America. Furthermore, somewhere around forty percent of U.S. citizens would not vote for an atheist politician. What an abstraact group of people to hate! It's like hating people who choose not to wear hats in summertime.

I think a lot of your argument is more effective on extreme views of the Bible - like the far right wing who say anyone who doesn't think every Bible word and story is 100 percent fact is a sinner and that atheists are damned.

I don't see it that way.

Jesus existed - that's a fact.
The argument is whether is his son of God.

There were others who claimed to be the son of God - and also - according to witnesses performed healing, miracles and other amazing acts.

I disagree with your statement: The bible is either true, or a novel - it doesn't have to be either/or.

I believe it's a collection of lessons, divine influenced writing, eyewitness accounts and events that help - we mortals - understand who and what God is.

I think it's arrogant to think we humans are the smartest thing of all time - anyplace/anywhere.
The Bible is the best way to explain something so our simple brains can comprehend it.

I also believe there is other far more intelligent life on other planets out there somewhere - also created by God.

You say it's all science - and I say God made science work the way it works.
God created the processes that we "discovered" as mortals.

We don't really discover these things - we finally figure out how it works - and it works the way God created it to work.

I think only extremists interpret the Bible in one strict way - I think it's open for interpretation - like all things in life.

God gave us the amazing ability to live and learn - and change our opinions.

In the days of Jesus and the formation of the Bible - something simple like electricity would have been viewed as heretic because our society had not developed intellectually to that point.

That's a great thing - life would be difficult - one many levels.
If we were all born as brilliant as God - with no room for wonder and a yearn to learn - life would be boring (among other things)..

You can argue that atheism isn't a belief - but I think that anything that can't be proven 100 percent is based on a belief.

You can't prove there is not a God - and I can't prove there is.

You say atheism is a conclusion - and I would agree - a conclusion based on your beliefs and the beliefs of those you trust (and believe - smile).

I say that because of all the things you listed that are not provable - like big bang - and the very very first thing that appeared (whatever that first substance, chemical, or whatever - apparently formed out of nothing - it just appeared).

I think even a well-based theory is a belief if parts of it can not be proven or documented without question.

It's semantics - and semantics that seem more important to you than me.

As a Christian, I have no less faith in my God because I also believe that some things in the bible may have been lost to translation.

I am not an arrogant Christian.

I leave open the possibility that we don’t have the corner on all knowledge. That we can - and should - learn a lot from all religions.

I believe it’s possible that other religions and belief systems (Native Americans, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims) truly do have visions and appearances by God or angels etc.
Because I believe we all pray to the same God - aka divine being.

When I believe God made man - I think he did it - in effect - using science that he created as part of the ultimate plan for the universe. That God created everything that is science.

Extremists would say that's not Christian - but I strongly disagree.

It seems you are used to debating this argument with people who - in my view - don't apply some common sense and logic to the Bible.

Continued:

I would vote for an atheist if I agreed with the person’s social and other political issues.

The only people (or groups) I completely write off and condemn are those who believe in hate, cruelty, violence - sociopaths.

I am not necessarily talking about nations that go to war - rather vicious dictators - and extremists in religion who think another person should be killed or tortured if they don't have the same exact beliefs.

I agree that the Bible is "ridiculously difficult to read" but that's because that was the way grammar and books were written in those days - and has nothing to do with religion.

I believe that if Jesus had not been born until last week - the Bible would have been written similar to the style we write and speak today.

And that's another reason I place modern logic into the Bible teachings, facts and stories - very much like the theory behind Occam's Razor.

God gave humans logic and the ability to think - and wants us to use it.

I also believe there is a God because of things I have witnessed in my life - that I don't think can be explained by coincidence.

I could write pages on that.

Because I was raised a liberal Yankee in Michigan who moved to Georgia in the middle of high school.

I left my parent's home at age 15 - and while still attending high school - began my news career on the streets of Augusta under the wings of the town's foremost investigative reporter.

I witnessed many things at a young age - plus have had events in my life as recent as last week - that reaffirm my belief there is a God.

By the way - I am not sure if God is a man, woman or something else.

But given just the two choices - I would say God is most likely a woman - even tho we Christians generally say "he" out of habit.

In closing - Thank God we live in a society where we can have our own opinion and beliefs - it’s not true in all the world - and maybe the universe.

I apologize if I offend, but everything you have said is exactly the same as any other moderate theist I have ever discussed this with. Albeit you are mor dedicated and eloquent than most, and it actually seems that you have a propensity to contemplate, and respond appropriately, I do not foresee this expansive conversaation leading to any change of opinion. Ture, if given this same response, I would wish to continue on grounds of perspective aquisition, but this evidences just how beligerant and obstinate I really am. It would take much more than an argument to dissuade me, and I have no idea what it would take to convince you. It is an exercise in futility, and I realize that my only real incentive for these discussions is how much I love controversy. I enjoy saying "No, you're wrong; here's why!" Ultimately, the opposition will respond the same way from a different perspective, then someone else will join in and affirm the stance of one of us. If it's me, I'll be incredibly gracious, and will resume debate with new vigor. I musn't delude myself any longer that I am gaining deeper understanding from these incessantly frustrating coversations. I'm simply a zealot, to an extent. It's not just religion though. On any topic that I feel I am right about, which I have thought about enough, I become ridiculously stubborn and argumentative, then criticize my opponent for being too ignorant. But before I am carried away by my pet steed Tangent, I'll get back on topic. I see you as dead-wrong, and have extensively rationalized this. I am sure you have done the same, though, and I cannot consciously assume that I am right.

You don't offend.
We both have our strongly held views.
You are correct - I doubt either of us would change the other's mind.
I enjoyed the pet steed quip - had never heard that one before.
Also enjoyed the debate.

What a load of total garbage. Read Ch 5 - "The Vacuum" from the First Global Revolution. It's available for download now at:
http://www.archive.org/details/TheFirstGlobalRevolution

This Club of Rome think tank would like us all to believe that : "The Common Enemy of Humanity is Man." And to make us believe this, they are "searching for a new enemy to unite us." In their search, they came up with "the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill."