Evidence THERMATE explosions in WTC towers and the coverup that followed.

How many other buildings of this size have collapsed?

From airplane impact? ZERO.

How many buildings that are as tall as the world trade center were have been destroyed, what was the cause of their destruction, and is there any footage of these collapses?

There have been many huge buildings destroyed, footage of detonations that are similar or EXACTLY the same is on the AE Truth website. You should browse through it. Crazy stuff.

The lengths those evil bastards will go to for world domination.....

Have you seen ZEITGEIST?

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

another conspiracy theory?

sorry... there's better evidence that it wasn't a controlled demolition or sabotage or anything other than the plane and the fuel.

there was insufficient insulation protecting the steel beams from the heat of the burning fuel, the fire-suppression water connections were severed, and you don't have to MELT the beams, you just have to have them bend enough that they can't support the weight above them.

once that happens, it DOES collapse just as it did.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law...

for one you won't believe, and another you won't believe is at

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,153130...

by the way, it's THERMITE, not thermate...

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

and a controlled collapse or thermite or explosives would NOT have created the bowed-out sides and beams of the WTC prior to its collapse....

http://www.representativepress.org/BowingDebunksExplosi...

so, you can keep fighting that battle, and the other 39% of the people in the US who'd agree with you can keep believing it, but the facts tend to be against you, no matter how compelling they sound.

the crazy bastards out for world domination are the islamofascists and fundamentalist muslims. THEY'RE the loonies to be afraid of. our government's incompetence in any and all other areas is puny in comparison, when it comes to things to fear.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=patcondell&a...

http://americancongressfortruth.org/

Plusaf:

BULLSHIT.

First of all, Thermate and Thermite are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Read up.

Second, those links are mostly derived from non-scholarly sources, (opinion pieces/paid bullshit articles from Corporate sources) whereas the evidence I've submitted is from a group of almost 300 Engineers, Architects and Physicists.

Either way, the building fell in a PERFECT footprint, AND do you know it only takes SECONDS for NORAD to scramble fighter jets in an emergency or "attack" situation?

Why didn't it happen 5 different times on Sept 11?

Why did WTC7 fall at 5pm ish? It was NOT hit by a plane and NO, steel doesn't burn up from normal fire.

Anyway, I'm not mad at you dude.

You have more info to the latter because big media is much better at getting MEDIA sources out there then the non-owners, the people that care that the truth be told...

Inside job.

Who's job? Not sure. Maybe Saudi work, maybe the Bush maniacs, maybe the Bilderbergers, the Rothschilds, maybe it was all of them together in some sick sadistic catastrofuck.

Regardless, the "islamofascists" should and would NEVER be able to fly planes into the fucking Pentagon/WTC etc with box cutters dude.

How far fetched does that really sound?

Seriously?

oh, butt-juice yourself... it may take seconds for someone to say "you... get airborne" and that assumes that the pilot is in the plane and the engines are warmed up for takeoff. life doesn't happen that way, and the movie about 9/11 has, imnsho, a much more realistic picture of what really happened... a lot of miscommunication and confusion, which you should be pretty willing to ascribe to the powers that be that were involved....

so it's irrelevant that the terrorists turned off the transponders and that NORAD doesn't cover the US and that basically a hand-operated radar-blip-crossing analysis was the only tool that could come CLOSE to finding two or three planes that had disappeared off the radar screens, AND that once anyone DID figure out what was going on, where would the fighter jets be? probably over the atlantic, looking for incoming missiles, not circling over Connecticut, waiting for a southbound US airliner to come cruising down the Hudson River?

get a clue, yourself and quit smoking the conspiracy weed.

if you were to LOOK at the evidence, including the "bowing out of the girders" kinds of evidence, you MIGHT......... nah, forget that thought... the kool-aid is coursing through your system already and the antibodies-to-alternatives have taken over like Replicators and Borgs to make sure you can't do that.

when most buildings are detonated deliberately, they DO fall straight down, because it causes the least collateral damage to surrounding areas. if someone were trying to do the most damage to the WTC towers, and they had any of the brains or convictions you claim they do, they'd hit the towers LOWER, and on ONE SIDE, which might weaken the towers so they would have FALLEN OVER, NOT DOWN.

run that through your comspiracy theory blender.

and you have not provided any evidence that any of the sites i cited are wrong in any way. you just labeled them as controlled by big media and other spooks in the night. and that's what drives conspiracy theories.... emotions, driven by verbal attacks on credibility without any analysis or open-minded debate.

at least, you got one thing right... thermate does exist... my bad... and gee, it's a hyped up version of therm_I_te, and so bfd.... thermate, thermite... either one would have caused the same effects, if anyone could have proved they were there. and nobody has, other than conspiracy-theorists' theories and hearsay.

the evidence, if rationally evaluated, does not back you up.

and what the mfh do you mean by "regardless, they should and would never be able..."?!?!???

they got training in flying, but not landing jets like that, in the USA. box cutters could be smuggled onto planes pretty easily before 9/11/01 and if someone held a box cutter up to YOUR neck, you might not want the other passengers to rush the dude holding it.

what's far-fetched about that? some cell-phone reports from the plane that went down in PA? nah, someone fabricated those for you, too, eh?

bull is right...

Plusaf:
First off, I never said or thought that "they" (whoever "they" are) were "trying to do the most damage...".
I think in fact they did EXACTLY the damage they intended.
And as for hitting the towers "lower" ????
Seriously? That's your argument???
THEY WERE JUMBO JETS MAN!
(Flying them lower AND striking the buildings at the speed they fly IS impossible, plus, that's SUCH a lame theory.)

I only question 9/11 because I DON'T trust politicians, especially an administration that lied us into war, & has a questionable way in which they came into office in the first place.

Run that through your sheepole blender...

And "they got flight training" HAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA!

They all FAILED to even be able to land a Cessna. (Look it up). To execute the kind of turn and accuracy it took at that speed to hit all 3 of the buildings? A hit like any of those would have been hard for even the best, most experienced pilots in the world (and some of those very pilots have said so).

As far a jerk holding a box cutter to my neck, come on! So I get a nick in my neck if I tackle the dude? DONE. A box cutter would sway very few people with enough adrenaline away from helping a whole jet full of 180 plus people I think, unless you're a coward, which I don't consider myself...

Either way, we may never know what really happened, it's just something that will have to keep being looked at until someone blows a whistle I think.

Same with JFK, MLK etc...

I'm not going to argue with you anymore but I WILL gladly read what you have to say and respond.

Sorry if I got a little heated...

onechance: What baffles me is that there are other buildings around WTC 7. Why didn't any of them fall due to the impact? I tend to agree that there is more to its implosion than we are being told.

Yes and what about WTC 7? How did THAT steel structure building fall at about 5 pm that evening when NO plane hit it?

http://wtc7.net/

I was just talking about this today with a friend. Believe me many agree with you and I. We are being LIED to. I used to work down in that area and actually had to go into WTC 7 once. The security there was like Fort Knox. There is also word that there was a CIA office in that building. If true it could shed some light on why it fell.

well, let me try some of those maybe one at a time... for those of you who won't believe ANYTHING that disagrees with your theories, skip this link.... if ANY of you might be open to another view, here's one anti-conspiracy theory site with what i consider very good, detailed descriptions and explanations.... try the last three question links at http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/
then get back to us with your "feelings."

plusaf, I understand that it is difficult and painful to accept that you've been lied to by your present government, but cold and hard scientific facts demonstrate beyond a scintilla of doubt that these buildings could only fall the way they did through demolition charges. Here is a link to a website you might consider exploring: http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Oh and Plusaf:

"so, you can keep fighting that battle, and the other 39% of the people in the US who'd agree with you"

Well, of the 5 people here, it appears that 80% of us are at least willing to learn more, and haven't drunk the 9/11 government koolaid.

Please, also put that in your minority blender.

Among many similar sites, debunking911.com and Popular Mechanics (whose 9/11 propaganda section is or was run by one of Michael Chertoff's cousins, no less) have been thoroughly debunked and discredited by fully qualified professors and other experts, plusaf.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/ , Vierotchka, is a wonderfl collection, but i got bored after about the twentieth or thirtieth repetition of multiple explosions and such.... "patriotsquestion911"..... ah! patriots = truth. disagree-ers = non-patriots? well, THAT certainly begs the question....

given the amount of power being consumed by a building of that size, do you think it's even REMOTELY possible that some of the substations within the building exploded from overloads they'd never been designed to handle? nah, not possible.. all had fuses, right? in all of the massive power conduits feeding them, right? sure.

and maybe there were three or four such power systems which might have all been exploding "like bombs."

one part you don't get really amazes me:

if the building were going to be brought down by explosives, why were the explosions heard, felt and seen by the burning people four stories BELOW ground, while the buildings... both of them... pretty clearly collapse from the top down?????

the descriptions of under-insulated beams softening from the heat from the burning fuel doesn't get past your filters, either, does it? the photograps of the beams of the sides of the building CLEARLY bowed out in such a way that they're no longer straight and strong enough to support the parts of the building above them???? the obvious collapse of both towers FROM the places where the planes hit????

if they were to have been demolition like we see so often on tv when an old building is collapsed, the collapse would have begun AT THE BOTTOM, and the entire building would have telescoped down into the collapsed FIRST FLOORS. but none of the videos ever show that. they ALL show the collapse beginning very close to where the planes hit, then telescoping DOWN from there!

or can't you see that part.

second [or nth], isn't consensus wonderful? 200 people hear noises like a bomb going off, though none of them actually SEE any explosion directly [or did i miss that in skipping the other 170 "witnesses"?] and therefore because it SOUNDED LIKE A BOMB GOING OFF, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A BOMB OR BOMBS GOING OFF?!??!?!?!?!?

jeez.....

and if EVERYONE on current.com agrees with you, it doesn't make you any more right than i, onechance... it could mean that your kool-aid just tastes better than mine. and that goes for whatever other conspiracy-theorists around the country agree with you, too.

yeah, and galileo was full of crap, too.... look what percentage of the entire population thought HE was full of crap, too..... :)))))))))))))))))))))))

no, i'm not comparing myself or my accomplishments to his... just drawing an analogy of "consensual agreement versus verity."

plusaf, just a remark or two - for the amount of steel in the towers to soften, it would have required many times more the amount of fuel, and a fuel that burns at much higher temperatures than does kerosene - and most of the kerosene in both towers was burnt outside of the towers, and the rest burned practically instantly. Moreover, the amount of heat needed to soften that amount of steel would have burnt all people inside to cinders long before the towers collapsed - yet there were people alive in the towers up until the moment they collapsed.

The explosion four stories below (before the building began to collapse) was to ensure that the building would collapse in its footprint, and the demolition began from the top because of the dimensions and proportions of the building, to ensure it would not topple over.

Furthermore, a number of witnesses who were inside the towers reported that they heard a series of explosions going bang bang bang bang as the towers began to collapse.

Your Galileo analogy is a false analogy.

No wonder you didn't stay long on the patriotsquestion911 website - you can't handle the truth coming from hundreds of people who are obviously infinitely better qualified than yourself.

Vierotchka, you have assisted me in discovering a new "Falk's Law":

"It is IMPOSSIBLE to refule an argument from a conspiracy theorist, because they will never believe ANY argument to the contrary."

on my website soon.... thank you.

and, no it doesn't take weeks for insufficiently insulated steel beams to become hot enough to lose their rigidity... as when burning jet fuel ignites everything in sight within the building.... like furniture, papers and the like.... and when they soften, they weaken, then bow out, as photos show. the WTC towers collapsed when the top stories fell onto the lower stories. there is no way in hell that ANY building will survive having several stories of itself dropped on the lower levels. obviously, the evidence of bowed girders that were observed BEFORE the collapse have no value to you, but that fits the New Law perfectly, doesn't it?

and onechance... it wouldn't be the chance of you getting a shaving cut from the box cutters as you attacked the flight attendant in distress. it would be the more normal human reaction to NOT ATTACK the guy holding her when SHE'S got the knife at HER throat, so that the hijacker doesn't slit HER throat.

it isn't about you... that's why most people don't attack.... as on two of the three planes. three groups of a dozen or two people on those planes with the hijackers, and TWO of the groups DID NOT try to overpower the hijackers.

maybe if YOU had been on board, one of the Towers might still be standing......

Galileo analogy isn't false. see? i can make definitive statements without backup, too, V.

and V, your "sounds of explosions" comments don't in ANY way refute my comment that "gee, it sounds like an explosion, therefore it MUST BE an explosion!"

and, gee, what might happen to a building that's sitting on top of a large electrical power station when things go all to hell a block or less away? gee... it might HAVE a large electrical substation-sized bomb go off right under it and LOOK LIKE a controlled demolition...... nah, bad argument, right? right!

carry on, kids... as with the Kennedy Assasination, if "they" don't want you to know the "real truth" you'll NEVER know the "real truth" so it's the sounds of your gums flapping.... JFK since 11/22/1963 and WTC since 09/11/2001.

gee... 45 years without "truth" for the first one, and you expect anything RESEMBLING "truth" to you in just six and a half?!

and, oc... yes, they sure as hell could NOT land a jumbo jet... but they knew they didn't HAVE TO. just point and shoot.... and the kind of training it would take to be able to move the throttles and do some banks and turns would be a VERY early part of their in-air training... and probably something you or i could master in a flight simulator trainer. duh! just because they've got all those dials and switches around them doesn't mean they have to know how to use ALL of them to fly!

silly boys and girls.

plusaf, I have not proffered a single conspiracy theory, I have merely pointed at the vast holes in the official (and totally zany) conspiracy theory to which you obviously desperately adhere, your string of strawman fallacies and mockeries notwithsdanding.

"The use of 'Conspiracy Theory' as a derogatory term or epithet, is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades. It is a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent, and other points of view and information that might be inconvenient for a policy agenda." --Chris Sanders, Political Economist, Sanders Research Assoc.

thank you.... same to you.

You can't "same to you" me since I posted no strawman fallacies nor mockeries, plusaf.

Vierotchka: Thank you. I am so sick of the label conspiracy theorist being pushed on someone everytime they ask a quesion in an attempt to minimize the importance of the question and shut down the conversation. Any American who loves this country must ask questions regarding the government's story about ANY event.

I for one do not trust one bit the "official" story regarding WTC 7, and I am having a hard time believing how the other buildings came down at this point. If you look at videos, and granted you have to look closer, it does look like charges or sparks coming off on certain floors before they fall...Now, whether those are charges going off or electrical wiring failing, etc., is questionable.... and that is the point.There are still questions that need to be answered. I am not just going to take the whitewash 9.11 commission's words as truth. I believe that would make me remiss as an American citizen to do so.

This government no longer fears the people. When you have a government that fears the people you have a Democracy... when you have a people who fear their government you have what we have now, and it sure ain't Democracy. The sad thing is I doubt that even Obama or Clinton will go into this any further, but that doesn't mean we can't demand them to.

Thanks JanforGore... VERY well put.

And Plusaf, you still haven't typed a single word about my biggest question, one that hasn't had an ounce of explanation (that I'm aware of) other than, "it came down from heat and damage from the planes that hit the OTHER wtc buildings...

WHAT'S YOUR BIG ANSWER ABOUT WTC 7 Plu?
Is EVERY building "not insulated"?

Even the documentaries I've seen that try to wrap the "9-11 report" in a bow and call it the Gospel still say that the 2 towers WERE built to withstand airliner impact... So, why didn't they if you are right (or if the "official" story is right?)

Where's your name calling about that one going to begin... Let's see, at the first or will that be the second word...

You see Plu, people that want the truth just want THE TRUTH. Not some crappy "report" that even the highest up question themselves...

You don't know the truth, and neither do I. That's something I hope you can at least think about, if not agree upon or are you so far "down the rabbit hole" of coverup that you won't even demand the truth?

you can add one more to the 'conspiracy theorists' side. (but i think those cheesy videos harm our arguments.)

catastrofuck...best word ever.

You can't "same to you" me since I posted no strawman fallacies nor mockeries, plusaf.

nor facts to refute my research....

there are sites that explain in very calm terms that the heat didn't MELT any beams, all the heat needed to do was to cause them to soften a bit an BOW, and there are clear photos showing the bowing of the beams.

once the beams bowed, they have nowhere near the supportive capabilitly than they do when they are straight and purely in compression by the floors above.

so, you're denying the bowing and that jet fuel, sprayed on surfaces with insufficient insulation can reach temperatures high enough to cause steel to SOFTEN....

while everyone is screaming about molten steel and the like. sometimes [well, usually] Occam's Razor IS the better solution.

but i digress.... there is absolutely no hope that any of you will ever believe anything i say, and Falk's 40th Law IS one result of that realization.

it remains. it will stay. it will continue to apply.
ciao, all y'all....

oh, sorry... i really should apologize... i really got to this page while i was checking the links at http://www.plusaf.com/soapbox/globalwarming.htm ....

i'd addes some juicy new links, and i thought i should check to see if some of the older ones might have gotten rusty....

:)

I never said anything about the steel melting - you've gone and done another strawman! LOL!

There were some 300,000 tons of steel, thus 150,000 per tower - the amount of heat needed to soften that amount of steel so that it would bend is so great that mere kerosene from one airplane (which burnt outside of the towers for the most part, and very quickly) couldn't get anywhere close to producing enough heat for long enough for that. The amount of heat necessary would have also burnt all the people inside the towers to cinders, and very quickly, too, yet most of the people inside the towers were alive up until the moment the towers collapsed.

I understand your desperate need to believe the official conspiracy theory (the zaniest of all the conspiracy theories ever), though.

There was a US Secret Service office and arsenal located below the WTC. The US Secret Service is the enforcement branch of the US Treasury Department and is tasked with investigating and taking down treasury fraud ( i.e.-counterfeiting rings) as well as their Presidential protective duties. Any arsenal dedicated to the Service's tactical operations would have undoubtedly contained thermate as a "breaching" compound used to blow through steel doors and structures to gain entry to hardened premises secured by criminal elements during raids.

I remember there were also large amounts of small arms ammunition in the same arsenal that "cooked off" in the fires resulting from the collapse for a long period of time afterward. Many emergency responders risked their lives in those days crossing over this exploding ammunition which could be heard popping off during footage of rescue baskets filled with search dogs and SAR personnel crossing the pits to search for survivors.

if you want to know how molten metal can form in what basically became a furnace anyway find out more about steel smelting, all it takes is a sustainment of fuel and oxygen. The steel industry melts it all the time and they don't even need jet fuel. The Persians forged great steel blades using a forge built into a hillside and the prevailing winds to heat the fires.

I don't love the govt. I do love a well researched theory though. Food for thought