The troops say they want Obama, Clinton for President

Read it and weep W.

This is very good news to hear. It doesn't surprise me at all, and I don't think the change American troops want is John McCain in office, someone who would incite violence and maintain forces in Iraq.

Considering the GOP canidate that recieved the most donations from service members was run out of the race( Paul ) it's no surprise that most will vote for a Dem. McCain's theory of stay the course reminds me of this quote, " Those in the back cracked the whips howling "FOWARD" while the ones in front leading the charge cried" BACK!"

Yes it would be great news for the troops to come home..and the curious thing about the questioning yesterday with general petreaus was the reference mr mc cain made to fighting a 100 hundred year war...this does not look good for those of us who are hoping for genuine peace in the world...

this article definitely does not speak for the entire military community. but it does speak for a portion. mostly that they are sick of going over and over and over again and not seeing any type of "progress" in the "war". I served for 15 months in Iraq and did not see much change while I was there. at least not any type of change that would justify my wanting to go back for another 15 months to stare at the same crap.

Support our troops! Listen to them. Not only is what they are saying important, but the fact that they are talking publicly about this at all says a lot.

Yes, let's hope that Bush and Cheney do not attack Iran before November.

Since when did Obama say he would pull out of Iraq right away? Be careful with your wording or sourcing. Your link is misdirected to George Stephanopolus.

Obama also has not commented on the level of civilian contractors to remain, or the level of bombing runs to be carried out.

From his issues page:
He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

At the very least I would imagine the troops are ready for a more grounded and realistic national defense strategy -- not just Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. Obama is also making the claim that progress in Iraq will flow from withdrawl of troops (thus pressuring the Iraqi government to function) whereas Bush is making the arguement that progress can only come from adding more troops. I'd have to side with Obama's idea.

And I would imagine the troops might also think they'd have better luck getting healthcare or Veterans benefits siding with those "bleeding heart" liberals instead of the humanitarians that brought us the Walter Reed scandal (not to mention toxic FEMA trailers).

And I can also imagine they might still be a little pissed off at the Republicans for giving Blackwater mercenaries, er, I mean "contractors" $30,000 a month each while the soliders themselves are only making that a year.

as a prior service iraq war veteran i agree with crob. i could never figure out why the Merc's that worked for Blackwater made so damn much. they had far better gear than we did (because they bought it themselves and it was gear that would not impair your ability to complete a mission). i ran across a Blackwater contractor that told me that he made $70,000 every 4 months that he was there. i then asked him how long he had been in iraq making that much. he said that he had been there just over 3 years (this was in the summer of 2007, mind you). so lets see, 70k * 3 * 3 = $630,000 that he has made since being there and they dont pay any taxes because that is part of their fabulous employment package. they get more money on top of that because of the nature of their work, which i can repsect, but still i dont know many grunts that make $630,000 in 3 years. at least not when i was in the service i didnt. its horrible.

the worst is when lower enlisted (guys that make between $15000-$35000/year) find out how much these guys are making doing the same thing that they are doing every day. its truely no wonder retention is a problem.

BluDot Produx: I don't really believe any of these candidates will be able to remove troops right away. The situation on the ground may be much different by then as well especially if this is escalated, which I am sure the Bush regime would love to leave them with. Obama's advisor even stated there may be as many as 80,000 troops still in Iraq untl 2010. I doubt it would be any different for Clinton.

so far that i've heard/read, obama says "out of iraq" but never "bring troops home." there's something fishy about his lingo.

does anyone have a source when obama says, "bring the troops home"?? can someone link me? thanks...

Donny dark o, I totally side with your second comment. My best friends husband was injured in an IED attack in 2005 and dicharged. 2006 he went back as a "contractor" for BLACKWATER and is filthy stinking rich. He said that it makes him sick to his stomach because he remembers how little he was being paid as an active soldier but that he has to pay the bills and holding a gun is the only thing he knows.:(((((

I agree with you Donnie. I was 11 Bravo out of highschool, and don't believe I was paid the right amount for the job I had. I have said it before and will keep saying it. Privatize the war. I bet the US will save money with a smaller, TRULY all volunteer service, paid on the right scale for what they do.

Couple points:

Even if Obama left some troops behind -- why not make them ALL Blackwater mercenaries? I think our troops have given enough.

There really should be more media coverage of the pay discrepency between volunteer US soliders and Blackwater contractors. Not just because it's more than a little insulting to the troops -- but also because the Republicans have tried to sell us on the idea that "privitization" saves us money. Well that's clearly not the case because the "privitized" soliders cost 10 times more than our actual soliders.

And if we can find the money to pay the Blackwater merc each hundreds of thousands of dollars a year -- why can't we provide universal healthcare for our veterans?

From what I understand (I may be mistaken) the returning soliders don't actually get free healthcare once they come back -- they have to pay for it out of pocket.

Is that true Donnie, Jlaboy?

how about this - the next prez issues a statement " this war in iraq is over - officially . any further involvement of US citizens in iraq will be at the invitation of iraqi officials , and will not , in any event , involve US soldiers in uniform " .

more power to them, there votes should count as double while serving there country.

i'm actually glad someone's asking the right people. To think that they are fighting for democracy and dying for it, its refreshing that they garner the most intimate and prudent inputs.

I am not at all for war, but I think it would be stupid for us to pull out of what we are involved with. By pulling out of Iraq we are only going to let them become stronger and then makes the US territory an easier target. By staying in Irag we are preventing the terrorists from strengthening.

Yeah, people who are pro-military and pro-"defense" usually vote Republican/conservative...until they go to war and realize it can ruin lives of both the troops and the civilians. I hope the war in Iraq can serve as enlightenment for republican parents and family members who have been negatively affected by it and therefore might be more willing to vote democrat in the coming election. For the sake of international respect, and for the health and education of US citizens, PLEASE! DONT PUT ANOTHER REPUBLICAN IN OFFICE who will only draw out our time in Iraq and put us on even thinner ice than we're already on!

Aceball, why do you think staying in Iraq prevents the terrorists from strengthening? I hear that a lot, and I always wonder why people think that. I'm not saying that there are no terrorists in Iraq, just that they are not only in Iraq. And it's not like they don't know where America is. This "we're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" just doesn't make sense to me.

And I agree with Jan. I think either democrat will have to take the conditions on the ground into account before making a final plan for withdraw, and God knows this administration isn't going to do anything to make that assessment any easier.

As things continue to decline in Iraq (no light at the end of tunnel) I do wonder why there isn't more pressure on Senator Clinton to take some responsibility for her vote to authorize the war. Isn't she trying to straddle both sides of this issue?

I just saw this on TV, and the robot announcer said of donny_o_dark's comment "stare at the same crop" like she was british, except british people say crap the same as us yanks.

McCentury MCain is insane! Mr Military can't even get his enemies straight. he keeps confusing Al queda, Iran insurgents, Sunni and shites. I mean if he keeps making mistakes now, imagine 3 years from now.

The only reason there are so many terrorist in Iraq is because we caused it when we invaded Iraq. Before the invasion, there wasn't any al queda. Iraq became a recruiting and training ground for all those against the west. Futhermore, we are less safe than prior to 911. Over 4000 americans have died. Over 1 million Iraqis have fled their country. Another half a million or more have died. And we haven't even considered the injured who we will have to nurse the rest of their lives. AND all the hatred we have created that we'll feel for generations to come.

it's time to stop these monsters and pull our troops out. If we know the following: no WMD's, war was based on lies, Saddaam is gone, the war is making us less safe and it's just not working - how can we continue?
All the bush administration cares about is the oil revenue. Let's be real people. During the 5th year anniversary, Dick CHeney was celebrating on a fishing boat in the Middle East with one of his Oil Billionaire Friends. This war is so sad. If anyone votes for mcCain they are voting for more war - not only iraq but also Iran. DON'T VOTE FOR MCCAIN.

They bombed Sadr City today according to the news. Anyone who thinks those in power now are going to allow this to end is dreaming. This is only the beginning, which is why when I hear Obama or any of them state they are getting the troops out in 2009 it angers me. Don't get the hopes up of people just to win their votes if you already know it isn't possible or you had no intention of doing it. And please then, STOP VOTING TO FUND THIS WAR. Barbara Lee even said as much this past weekend as a guest on Real Time. WHY do representatatives like Obama, Clinton, etc. say they are for getting the troops out, and then they turn around and give these cretins MORE MONEY TO WAGE IT? Sorry for the caps, but it angers me. As a mother with a teenager who knows this is far from over, knows our military is stripped, and knows that all of these candidates will increase funds to the military for all of their talk about wanting "peace" I am very wary of anything any of them say regarding this "war."

I think the notion that either democratic candidate will do anything to prolong the war in Iraq goes too far. Both have made their positions very clear. I do think that their withdraw plans are based on best case scenarios, and it's just common sense to think they will have to take the situation on the ground into account it they become president.

As far as funding the war, that is a political football. Yes, it would be great to have seen a principled stand on funding the war. If there were enough people in congress brave enough to take that stand then maybe something could have been done. But there wasn't and there still isn't. Expecting either candidate to take a political stance that would not result in any change, but could certainly help elect McCain's in November seems counterproductive to say the least.

Of course we should all be wary...especially given the fact that Clinton voted to authorize the war and has yet to take responsibility for it. But I hope all of us who want to see this war come to an end as quickly as possible can agree, John "100 Years" McCain is not the answer.

Yes, because it is always about "winning." Sorry, I will vote against McCain but not because I see the Democrats as better on this because they aren't. And, If there were enough people to vote for defunding it it would be great? What about standing up for your principles? And how do you know that wouldn't bring about a change? How do you know others might not be waiting for that one person willing to stand up for what is right to follow them? It isn't as much about bravery as doing your job and putting your country before your party. I wouldn't give a damn if I were the only one, if it is the right thing to do (and DEfunding this war is the right thing to do) you do it.

Of course, that is what makes politics such BS in this country which is why regardless of who may tell me they are a candidate of 'change' it rings hollow. People who are for real change make it, they don't follow the crowds or vote "present" because they think their votes won't change anything. So to me whether you voted for the resolution like Clinton did, "don't know if you would have or not if you were in the Senate" like Obama stated while funding it, or be the 100 years war McCain, you are not trusted by me regarding the heandling of it, and there is no excusing any of it. I often wonder had Obama been in the Senate and voted for it at the time how his followers would find a way to defend that vote like they defend the funding of it. So to say Democrats won't prolong it is actually a misrepresentation. They already have by their retiscence to honor the promises they made in 2006 when they got votes to get their "majority" by telling the people they would end this war, and by not abiding by the oaths they took. I may have no choice this November to keep Republicans out, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, and it WILL be the last time I do it.

Of course “I don’t like anyone” is an easy position to defend. Perhaps the world you live in is that black and white. It must be a nice place. But the real world isn’t like that. We could all wonder what Obama would have done had he been in the Senate at the time of the vote, it could be a fun little game. But in the real world he wasn’t. So we’re forced to look at the stance he took then. Here’s a link to the speech he made in 2002, when many other democrats were lining up to authorize Bush’s war.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/28/7343/

I think it’s pretty clear (yes it’s just words…we know, but some of us think words count). It’s not ALL about winning Jan. But if you don’t win you can’t make the changes required. As I said I would have loved to see a principled stand on the funding from one of these candidates, like we did from Dennis Kucinich. But what are the chances of Rep. Kucinich’s enacting his plans for withdrawing the troops from Iraq as president? Not so good I’d say. Sure it’s BS, but it’s the system we got. We can wring our hands and complain about it, or we can get real and do something about it (whether we like it or not).

I do think the Democrats are better than McCain on this issue (and most others). He has said the surge is working. He has no plans of withdrawing troops…in fact he’s comfortable with troops being there for 100 years. He can’t even keep the factions straight.

You might not be able to make a distinction between those points and the position of the democrats, but many of us can.

No better? Um…okay.

As always, thanks for your opinion on this.

the only way to end this war , right now , is for everyone to stop paying taxes - yup - a tax revolt . can you begin to imagine the US gov't sending the nat'l guard out to force citizens to pay up so as to finance a war which not a single country in this world really supports nowadays ? we're talking martial law , a police state , a real , true dictatorship in this dream scenario - i would love to see how that would turn out ...

krag2112 - I agree with you that we don't know what Obama would have done if he was in the Senate at the time of the vote. He might not be all that he claims he is, but he's are only hope. McCain is absolutely a pure and simple military man with a senior brain, an anger management problem and absolutley no knowledge (by his own admission) of the economy. He would continue the Bush war and we'd probably be in Iran by 2009 if elected.
I'm praying for peace.

janforgore - I agree with you about the democrats. They really should all be fired for not doing what we the people wanted. Get us oput of Iraq!!! They have the power of the purse and they don't use. they are afraid of how the Republicans accuse them of helping the terroist or leaving the soldiers in harms way. It's ridiculous.

"We must be the change we want to see in the world" If only Ghandi were alive today...

Absolutely Mohitz.. It is their duty under the Constitution to fund wars and to defund them. That decision does not rest with the 'president' for a good reason... and we are seeing why very plainly now.

And no Krag, they are no better regarding this and they have a helluva lot to do to make me believe they are at this point.

This article really affected me, I served two years out of my four years in the Marine corps. I have lost so many friends in this war and continue to be affected by the Iraq war. While over in Iraq during the 2004 election myself and the majority of my platoon and unit voted with absentee ballets, most said they voted Democrat! Myself being from Ohio and a huge percentage of the military being from Ohio could have played a huge roll in the Ohio election. From what I understand absentee ballets were not even used. Its no surprise that the military wants to see something new!

mohitz you are exactly right. They were afraid of looking like they didn't support the troops, which is exactly how the right would have painted them if they had voted against funding. Chicken sh*t? Well...maybe, but do you guys remember that guy named John Kerry? I think he was a Senator or something...anyway they were scared politically. And it's not beyond the realm of possibility to imagine that they were also a little scared of what de-funding would have meant for the troops in the field. God only knows how Bush would have handled having 150,000 men and women in the middle of the desert and no money to keep them fed and armed much less bringing them home. Remember Katrina, this isn't what you would call a crack group of logisticians.

Did they fail to do what they promised? Yes. Are they entirely to blame? I'd say no. Would we have done the same in their shoes? Who knows and who cares.

Bustown...thanks for your service over there. Military absentee ballots should be the first votes counted, not the last. I hope sh*t like that never happens again.

Aceball 888 - you really don't believe the bush rhetoric that if we leave iraq the terrorist will attack us here? Bush attacked iraq to one up his father and kill Sadaam, to take the oil revenues from the Iraqis and to continue onto Iran. Iraq has become a terrorist training ground and has actually made our country less safe. DOes anyone remember who Bin Laden is? Oh I forgot. Iraq had nothing to do with 911.

no matter when we leave it's going to be a disaster. It is a disaster now! Maliki said today that he doesn't want the US to stay. In addition, maliki is aligning with Iran.

iraq is such a tremendous catastrophe that the only decision we can make is to leave. You all know at the end of the day, another Sadaam Hussein will be in power. He's just been traded for another dictator. Although, the Bushies are just trying to steal the oil revenues in between the regime change.

GET THE TROOPS OUT NOW!!! The Bushies don't even take care of troops - why should they fight an illegal war for nothing! To make matters worse, when the poor soldiers come home with injuries, the bushies don't care. I'm sorry for all the soldiers, for the iraq's, for the US and the world that we have to put up with such an horrendous war for a few chicken hawks running our country.

Most wars generate income for a country. But this administration has given no bid contract to its friends - haliburton and blackwater. To make matters even worse they are paying insurgents who were once our enemies, to fight the others. So we will be training and arming those who just want a pay check who could turnaround and shoot at us a few months from now. get real people. get out now. don't believe the lies!!