Scientology's defector reveals church secrets

Mr. Tangent,

Because Scientologies' "scripture" was written by a science fiction writer.

You know, as an atheist I think Scientology is bunk. However, also as an atheist I think all religion is bunk. That is to say, it's a form of mass hysteria or collective insanity. With that said, I never understood why everyone picks on Scientology? If you were an atheist, I can understand it... but if you believe in any sort of higher power and you're picking on Scientologists isn't that sort of like the pot calling the kettle black?

No offense of course, but I hold my views to be true. You might not think you're crazy but 'faith' is simply another way to say you're mentally ill. :)

Like we needed a "inner-member" to tell us how messed up their church is.

I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. One of the main differences between scientology and other religions is that it is so recent that they still have copyright over their original works.

Catholics can't surpress the Bible within the current legal system, 2000 years is well over the public domain limit, plus most of it was written by previous religious groups anyway (and most of the translation was done by protestants).

As far as offspring cults go (like the one mentioned in Texas), Scientologists could sue them too, for now. If they last much longer, they will have offshoots who do even stranger things than they do.

Any David Koresh can twist the Bible and call himself a true Christian (or twist other texts and say he's Hindu, Buddhist, etc), Scientologists at least were original enough to make up their own mythology.

Still, have you seen 10,000 BC? Kind of a criticism of silly cults in general, without breaking anyone's copyright.

Nice

scientology is a cult bent on making money. its that simple.

After reading that article, I have no sympathy for this guy. He explains the first step of "clearing" as sitting quietly with his eyes closed until he goes in to a trance and "finds" his real self. Isn't that just meditating? He goes on and on about how much money he gave the church like they stole it from him. He's the one that willingly handed over $50,000 to meditate, something that millions of people do for free everyday!

Sorry things didn't work out for you buddy, but get over it. You really have nobody to blame but yourself for going along with it for so long.

Thank you for pointing out Lennon's philosophy nyingma13, THE example of utopia and living in the “now”. Be a human being…

But, as he does best, Carlin reveals what’s truly happening.

George Carlin is as usual, very pointed and on the mark, Pwdrskir, but John Lennon said it best when discussing religion:
"Imagine no religions,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
And above us only sky".
That's the most succinct and sane discussion of religion I have ever heard.

I am SO glad you felt compelled to chime in CalPerr; you certainly brought forth arguements that I have never heard before! Most all religions are based the love one another concepts, but it is how these concepts do or don't guide their members that are the mark of their integrity. If you include Catholocism as Christian, your arguement that they have nothing to hide and are not secretive holds about as much water as a sieve, and each and every sect of Christianity has similar deep, dark periods of their past they would like to bury and forget forever, as they are PR nightmares. If you view Scientology as a business, it all becomes clear. L Ron Hubbard wrote the first book as a means of getting rent money due to his weak sales as a science fiction writer and nothing more. That he happened to write this at a critical moment in the world's history-the aftermath of the end of WW II, the increased sophistication of the average American that resulted from the war, and the burgeoning self-help movement-was the single most important factor in Hubbard's early success, not because he has written anything particularly original. The man died paranoid and demented ala Howard Hughes and hooked on all sorts of drugs; is this a good indicator that his "religion" is the one true answer? I think not. Scientology is and always has been, a business, dedicated more to separating its followers from their cash than contributing to theirs, or anyone's enlightenment. If you keep that in mind, you can probably benefit from their classes on communication and self esteem. I know I certainly did. Take their courses, learn something about yourself, then get the hell out before they try and recruit you into their inner organisations like the Sea Organisation or whatever.

Catholicism is not like Scientology. The tithe is optional(now). The bible isn't kept secret from anyone. And most importantly, catholicism is honest about it's problems.
Some one who claims to be a Christian yet acts in ways Christ would not is,(as definied in the bible) an Anti-Christ. Anti-christs would fall from a priests who "looks" at an altar boy to me, because I call my self Christian and I still sin(Still get migraines too).

Many people have used christ's name for the own means(Like pocketing donnations rather than helping the community or church). Christianity is about forgiveness, any one saying otherwise is going against Christ(Anti-christ).

P.S. I thought "ulitmate awareness" was about being in touch not out of touch(OT)

I have friends that are scientologists and for the most part they are very nice people who try to be conscientious. What is the harm in that? Yes, some of their beliefs are hard to swallow, but that is their right. Any anti-scientology movement will only help it gain popularity. Best to ignore things you don't like!

seeing as Christianities main points are forgivness, everyones equal, and we are all shepards on gods land: i think its better if a religion says what they are going to do. Such as Scientology = A way to make money

and i love what you said lifterbaron XD

When a good friend of mine was into Scientology, I was 15, and went to a first meeting. Before I could listen to the talk, I was asked for money. I told them I didn't have any money but I had some ski's, and they said they wanted my ski's. Wow. That was odd to me. So I didn't attend the meeting and get to find out more of what it was about. I never really heard from my friend much after that, because I wasn't part of the club. Later in my life, I tried to read L. Ron Hubbards first book to better understand it, and could not finish the first chapter. Since I am a woman, it mostly disqualified women so I had a hard time with that. It also implied gay people might never see the light of a forgiving afterlife. Hmmm. I am Bi-Sexual so I could not turn the page.
It is true all religions are tax exempt and make a lot of money. Yet why does humanity care more about what happens to us, after we die than how we live our lives? Most religions are trying to sell a ticket to a front row seat to the afterlife. This might explain why we do not protect our planet like we should, or treat each other with love and respect. Its like our lives don't matter. Maybe the word eternity is what is so scary. It sounds a lot longer than our mere 70 years of life.

Referring to the comparison of Scientology and other religions.. I think Scientology is without the credibility of many other, older religions not because of length of existence, but the amount of innocent people it has yet to torture, kill, scare and threaten.

Germany and the rest of Europe have a lot of things Americans should learn from.

we should do what Germany did and ban scientology

Apparently, OT equals Out of Touch and your success in Scientology is measured by it's levels. 8 being more out of touch than the previous 1-7. The higher the level, the farther up your own ass you go. Glad to help.

Looks like L-Ron is Hustling from the grave or is he dead? nah im joking or am i?

Great thread!!!
I have been off line a few days.
Last night we happened to eat our dinner in an Italian Rest. across from The Scientology Celebrity Center.

It amazed me how this enormous
Shrine to Human Gullibility and Ignorance

can exist in our world.

This is no help from our mainstream media that does not give people a clear view of sane from insane these days! Not having a free flow of ideas such as these forums makes people have fear of these cult like institutions. The more we talk about them the more they will shrivel and go away..I hope.

A few years before the guy started scientology, he said "if you want a good way to make a load of money, start a religion" (or words to that effect, you get the point)

I think that kinda sorts it out. All religions are made-up and are formed on peoples ideas. How come people still care enough for it to make the news when someone points that out?!

What is scary is the fact that it took him to 12 years to realise and what is scarier is that the majority of people who believe in a faith somehow segregate us all and corporations control us all and yet we allow them to exist. Surely the only faith we need is ourselves in how we treat each other?

How is it so simple for some but impossible for others, which makes it virtually impossible for us all? Why do we all search reassurance and even pay for it? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to mock others beliefs if they find it in religion/cults but please give me something solid evidence that their belief truly helps the bigger picture.

Scientology IS a cult and to base your views on a sci fi author is simply ridiculous and the only reason we allow it is that we live in a world that is obsessed with obsessions. Celebrity’s dull existence seems to propel them towards these things (more money than sense and a lack of trust in others I pressume) and yet we fuel it by buying their stupid headlines so we are just as guilty to such a preposterous existence. There is no credibilty in any of it. Sad but true.

they need to start a scientology protection service

OT8????? CLEAR?????

guess i havent kept up with scientology lingo. have no clue what he's talking about.

Well, comedians are one thing, but if we want a truly insightful commentary on the state of modern day theology I think we would all do well to recall the immortal words of Bill Joel who sang:

"They say there's a Heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better, but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners then...."

How does the rest of that go?

From an outsiders perspective every religion is insane. I suppose some more than others...I'm anxious to see the extended video. And to hear the response from Scientologists.

So scary! Scientology is a cult. RLH was one of the biggest scam artist of all time and yet there are people who are so gullible, which is a neverending story, unfortunately.

Okay, eldamon, I was mistaken. Hulkamania ran wild during the WWF Era and then it ran wild in the WCW (if I remember my history correctly).

I don't want to get bogged down in a deep theological debate about the the power of Hulkamania -- but I do think we can all agree on the core concepts. In all boils down to Hulk 3:16 -- Hulk dyed (his hair) for our sins!

That's a good point, saverio. I suppose if Scientology had been around for 1000's of years we might view it differently.

crob80227,
A thousand pardons Effendi. I clearly chose my words insensitively when I neglected to take into account the admirable and prestigious career of Mr Hogan. Please except my most humble apologies.

Please permit me one question, if you will? Was the great Hulk Hogan part of the WWE or the former WWF?

@crob: Because the time factor is essential to gain credibility. "Mainstream religions", as you call them, have centuries of tradition and are deeply rooted in a country's culture. So, yes, there's a double standard at work. Scientology was founded "yesterday" and is therefore less credible than Christianism, Buddhism, etc.

Whoa!

Do NOT lump the WWE in with the phony made-up religion of Scientology.

I swear, you elitist liberals take the cake. Deriding the legtimacy of Hulk Hogan's many victories! How dare you, sir!

Next you'll be claiming that the outcome of Harlem Globetrotter games are pre-determined.

Is there no end to this liberal elitism?

I'm not one to throw salt on another man's game. If you have the nads and intellect to come up with a scam that others will fall for knock yourself out. But Scientology takes it step too far.

Starting basically as a drunken bet between Ernest Hemingway and L. Ron Hubbard { i heard '-)} the scam has grown to encompass throngs of simple minded followers. These are the same people that would have followed Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite and Rev Moon if given the chance.

Before offing himself L. Ron set out to see if he could actually create a religion, which kinda makes you wonder how other religions got started as well? In any case some "entrepreneurs" saw the potential and built it into the cash cow it is now.

You have to admit it's a pretty good scam because as long as there are people willing to imbibe the Kool-Aide, watch Fox news and WWE and thinks it's real there will be plenty of rubes to keep them going.

hey freck,
dont you have to "pay" to be a catholic too? its called a 10% tithe....

On my campus there have been rallies and protests against the Church of Scientology. I have seen postings all over about their supposedly cult like activities, harmful to many and violent in some cases.

The fact that you have to pay to be in this "religion" says everything.

If someone tried to recreate Scientology today, they would go to jail for being a scam artist.

Unlike most other religions, Scientology doesn't cater to mass acceptance. It is an inclusive organization and doesn't want it's power meddled with by "outsiders".
Consequently, any negative or, worse, telling posts will be fought for removal. Secrecy keeps them strong.
How cultish of them.

Great people think alike lindsaytalbot!

I agree jh64487. I'm all for total openess and honestly for any religion -- I was just remarking that I doubt anything that's revealed about the inner workings of the church will have a significant effect on Scientology long term. I mean, look at the polygamy cult they just busted in Texas. You'd think stuff like that would have a huge negative impact on Mormonism as a whole, but I don't see that happening. I'm sure Scientology will chug along just fine no matter what gets revealed (which is a disturbing thought!)

crob...every religion is based off otherworldly sources. As for scientology, I'm all for freedom of religion, I mean there are people who call themselves Jedis, but the conspiracy-esque attitude that goes with Scientology creeps me out, I say put their secrets out in the open.

I don't see how revealing any of the inner-workings of the Scientology church would do them any harm.

Not to pick on anyone's religion, but Mormonism has about the same super high "weirdness" factor as Scientology. Peeping stones? Gold tablets that can only be read using special glasses provided by angels? Holy underwear? Polygamy?

Both religions were pretty much created fairly recently by single individuals claiming to have recieved enlightened from otherworldy sources.

If Mormonism is still going strong (and growing) with their own super high weirdness -- I don't see how any equally weird religion would be all that hurt.

WTF, they're scared shitless that their BS will get out.

We need a WikiVideo so the truth can be heard!!

The information below was copied from the link provided regarding Wikileaks.

“On April 7, 2008, Wikileaks reported receiving a letter (dated March 27) from the Religious Technology Centre claiming ownership of several recently leaked documents pertaining to OT Levels within the Church of Scientology. These same documents were at the centre of a 1994 scandal documented here."

"The email stated: The Advanced Technology materials are unpublished, copyrighted works. Please be advised that your customer's action in this regard violates United States copyright law. Accordingly, we ask for your help in removing these works immediately from your service. -- Moxon and Kobrin
The letter continued on to request the release of the logs of the uploader, which would remove their anonymity."

"Wikileaks responded with a statement released on Wikinews stating

"in response to the attempted suppression, Wikileaks will release several thousand additional pages of Scientology material next week."”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks

Surprise! The video has been removed from YouTube.