What do you think about vaccines? Are they safe?

My son was the only child vaccinated against polio when he was attending a Rudolf Steiner school in Sweden in the late seventies - all the other children were vaccine free, and they all came down with polio.

The risks and dangers of vaccines are microscopic compared to the risks and dangers of the diseases in question. Have you ever seen a child die of measles, of whooping cough, of smallpox? Have you seen the devastating damage on the gonads of young men who were not vaccinated against mumps? I have.

But if you wish to sacrifice your children so as to reduce the overpopulation of the world, all power to you.

I think you are very right to not vaccinate a new baby. Wait a couple of months to start. Then ask for individual shots free of mercury preservative. It is more expensive to go to the doctor for one shot at a time but I being the grandmother and caretaker of an autistic grandson feel it is worth the expense. Scott was a normal happy talking baby, after his baby shots he faded away. He is non verbal still at twenty-five. Super smart, and knows he is different. Wants so much to be like everyone else. Do get the shots, but carefully.

as usual mm you have taken the time to objectively view the issue and responded with a non-inflammatory thought provoking response. i appreciate you.
one problem our family faces there, is the fact that we live in California and although you may opt out for spiritual or philosophical reasons (only if you get none of them) you may not pick and choose vaccines if your child will ever attend public school in this state. its basically all or nothing. and although (ofcourse) we would like to avoid public schools for them we are not wealthy and find it very difficult to find schools we dont feel are stuck in the stone age mentality of beat kid smarter. admittedly some vaccines are safe and effective. but others are blatant fiscal scams. see chicken pox for an easy to see one. or the hpv virus mandatory vaccinations in texass.

and vierotchka polio is what is known as a live vaccine meaning that it can be caught from a vaccinated person for something like 76 hours. i pray your childs immunization is not what started that tragic outbreak. and further if you do a bit of research you may find that polio, the disease you chose to mention, was statistically on the decline in the couple of years before the vaccine was released. and with further research you may even learn that the definition of symptoms for polio became much narrower immediately after the vaccine was released. i.e. if one looked at statistics the incidents of infection was dramatically altered by this definition change. with further research you may find that polio vaccine is grown in the filter organs of primates and they have found that primates carry the virus PIV the primate version of HIV. and growing this culture in their filter organs i.e. liver kidneys, helped the virus to mutate the step it needed to get to humans because heretofore it had been a primate only disease. whereas polio killed a few hundred a year (most cases in modern times,something like high 60 %, of instances of polio have come from vaccinated individuals) to the new demon aids. or hiv which kills untold thousands with no known cure. most vaccinated children that contract these diseases suffer far worse than un vaccinated children. and our problem really is with the under tested highly toxic binders that are used not the vaccines themselves (other than misrepresentation.)

oh yeah and i am sorry for you pain in the incidence you are talking about. i am sure it was very hard for you and your son to have all of his friends die so horribly.
but i must in my foolish pride say.
that doing research before blindly injecting your child with corporate cocktails is not sacrificing them necessarily but trying to make an informed decision in the disinformation age. but thanks so much for your judgments and condescension.

My son had been vaccinated years before the outbreak which stemmed from a pond.

If you brush up on history and see the number of children who died from various diseases before vaccines were invented compared to the number of vaccinated children who suffer side effects, as well as compare pre- and post- vaccine era life expectancy, you'll understand that vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives.

I agree with Marilynn as I can relate, although everyone here has something to contribute. I have a 4 year old grandson on the autism spectrum who had all of his immunizations as an infant. In some cases mercury based immunizations can affect infants especially when parents have an immune deficiency issue such as rheumatoid arthritis. Their immune systems are unable to flush out these chemicals during a critical time during development of their brains. Although I believe mercury based immunizations are no longer given, there is no way for us to know whether this was what affected Cole or not. He's extremely bright and lovable but is delayed in verbalizing and has low motor skills and strength. A nursing newborn gets everything his mother is immune to automatically so I agree that waiting may be a wise option with a baby. Autism has become an epidemic and the hardship on the families is immense considering the extra attention and care and the fact that much of the treatment and intervention is not covered by insurance.

This gives me hope: Autism Insurance Reform Passes UNANIMOUSLY in the Florida Senate! This should take place in every state to give these children whatever they need to face a life of challenges.

Some 2,250 people in Switzerland have been infected with measles since the current outbreak began in November 2006 in the canton of Lucerne, where vaccination coverage is only 78 percent -- below the 95 percent minimum level recommended by the WHO.

The disease, which causes 242,000 deaths a year, spread from Switzerland to Austria, which has had about 200 cases, and to Denmark, Germany, Norway and in Arizona and California in the United States. A small outbreak in France may also be linked.

Most of those infected have been school-age children who were unvaccinated or received only one of the two jabs needed to reach full immunity, mainly due to parents' opposition to the measles vaccine, which is often combined with mumps and rubella.

Public health experts, who argue that fears about vaccine safety are unfounded, say everyone needs two doses of measles vaccine -- generally both administered in childhood -- to be protected and to avoid transmitting the disease to others.

[snip]

Measles infections normally start with a high fever followed by the development of a rash, normally appearing on the face and upper neck. Its sometimes deadly complications can include blindness, the brain infection encephalitis, and pneumonia.

Excerpted from http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldFootballNews/idUKL25...

One incontrovertible fact remains - child mortality has dropped dramatically since the emergence of vaccines.

When I was about ten or eleven years old, I got measles - I was so ill I almost died, and it weakened my heart to the point that for months afterwards I would have fainting spells and had to stay at home and miss school.

With regard to the connection between mercury and autism, that connection begins already in utero, especially when mothers have eaten a lot of fish during pregnancy and even before, and those mothers who have amalgam fillings. One cannot impugn vaccines alone for the rise in autism - the amount of mercury in vaccines is almost insignificant.

See also http://www.kellymom.com/health/chemical/mercury.html

Excerpt:

How do I minimize my child's exposure to mercury?

Since mercury levels in babies begin to accumulate before birth, the US Food & Drug Administration advises pregnant women to avoid eating several types of fish that tend to have higher levels of mercury. Per the FDA, "While it is true that the primary danger from methylmercury in fish is to the developing nervous system of the unborn child, it is prudent for nursing mothers and young children not to eat these fish as well."

Good find, Hawkmang!

The history of vaccines is informative, but a moot point when it comes to the reality of the vaccines given to children today.

Thimersosal, the mercury based preservative is a known neurotoxin.

The toxic affects of mercury are cumulative. The body does not have a mechanism to excrete mercury by itself and lodges in the muscles, fat and brain tissue unless extracted by chelation.

The problem is according to scientists as the one in this video, is not the live virus that makes vaccines work, but the mercury in the thimerosal which is used by choice as a preservative because of its lower cost.

Jenny McCarthy, who is an informed and passionate advocate for her formerly autistic son and all children diagnosed with autism, is advocating that pediatricians review the innoculation schedule and modify it so that there are fewer vaccines over a longer period of time.

Since the early 1980s when my two oldest children were born, the number of vaccines required by law for children has increased from 9 or 10 to 47 or 49. Each vaccine gives a baby another dose of mercury. A child would have to weigh 400 pounds in order to be able to absorb that amount of mercury.

The science is pretty simple. What is complicated is that the American Medical Association, pediatricians and the FDA are all complicit in the poisoning of our children for almost 2 decades, the result is an epidemic in autism with an increase of up to 200% in a ten year period alone and they don't want to be legally and financially responsible for the damage their negligence caused.

The heartbreak is that to save a small percentage of profit, the pharmaceutical companies risked the very brains of millions of children.

Tell every parent you know to demand single dose vaccines and insist that they space out the shots more. Don't believe anyone who says the mercury has been taken out of all vaccines. Do your own research and question your doctor. If you don't fell you are getting an honest answer. Get another doctor. Parents can no longer assume that their doctor, the drug companies or the government will protect your child's health. Use your own judgment. Some childhood diseases like chicken pox can be far less dangerous than the mercury in the vaccines.

In Sweden, there is no such danger - Sweden has been at the forefront of eliminating mercury-based amalgam fillings, and there is no mercury in vaccines in Sweden.

"In 1991 regulators in several countries had raised concerns about the safety of thimerosal - a preservative developed by Eli Lilly. In Sweden the chemical was being removed from vaccines. Noting the concern of Swedish regulators, Hilleman wrote: "It is reasonable to conclude" that it should be eliminated where possible, he said, "especially where use in infants and young children is anticipated." By contrast, Hillman noted: "the U.S. Food and Drug Administration ... does not have this concern for thimerosal.""

Excerpted from http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/02/08.php


Vaccines are not a moot point with regard to over-population and exploding demographics, though, quite the contrary.

Mercury load from the environment is also a major problem and probably has a causal relationship to autism and other neurological diseases also increasing at alarming rates.

Coal fired electric plants are a major source of mercury pollution in air, water, and soil.

GW Bush immediately stopped requiring these plants to place scrubbers (cost .001% of their profit) on their smokestacks to cut mercury and arsenic emissions so these poisons have increased greatly since 2000.

Parents should call, write, and talk to their Senators and Congressmen and demand that the EPA monitor mercury levels and require coal fired electric plants to install scrubbers, and demand that mercury be totally removed from vaccines, which has not yet been done fully.

This is a very tough issue. Personally, I don't know whether choosing to not vaccinate children is really a good idea. Maybe it's useless for certain diseases that are not common anymore in our environment but nonetheless it's a great risk. I'd rather know what vaccinations are really useful and what not.

I agree liviacolare, it is an issue that we as parents struggle with, however in the state of California where we live the LAW is all or none, you either have to administer all required vaccines or you must give none in order to enroll your child into public or private school. One thing we have thought about doing is traveling to another state and getting the vaccines that we feel are necessary, and simply claiming that we have not given any.because as we said its not the effectiveness of ALL vaccines that is in doubt. after doing all the research we could. i.e. internet, books (pro and con, from a manual from the cdc for its own employees not normally available to the public to books written by concerned parents of children who had complications after immunizations.) we found that there are about five of them we completely disagree with and many we have questions about. in china (where our vaccines are produced btw, yeah i know scary) they dont give any vaccines until the children reach the age of two. With the information we have gathered We have learned that as long as an infant is breastfed exclusively they will reap the benefits of their mothers immunizations, therefore we feel confident that our children Are being protected (all 3 under 3 and breastfed) however with the formula companies and hospitals pushing formula on new mothers in the form of gift bags as well as most of our country's discomfort with breastfeeding, and lack of information and support to new families, I can see why people are not so concerned with giving babies these large doses of vaccines as their new immune systems are getting No protection naturally from their mothers.
we certainly immunize our pets with the appropriate vaccines (skipping kennel cough and the other unnecessary vaccines). you would think that it would be the pet world inundated with unnecessary immunizations and dis-information strategy's, but apparently there is not enough fear based reaction to promote a successful marketing strategy.

My daughter was given the standard round of vaccines and then we were told they needed to repeat it because my family Dr. forgot to write it in his report. They did write it on my little vaccine card though. She then contracted bacterial meningitis, and later some kidney problems. Don't let anyone TELL YOU what you have to do, and what is best!

Okay people -- don't get me started on the damn Autism band wagon.

Every 5 or 10 years it's a new "disease" that's over diagnosed & then pills are over prescribed. A few years ago it was ADD/ADHD, now it's Autism. I'm sure I could ask a few of my co-workers to predict the next one. I'm betting on Asperger's.

As a special education professional, I can say that yes -- the cases of Autism have increased -- but one has to ask why. yes, there could be a possibility between vaccinations BUT the biggest problem I have seen in my career is parents are TOO informed.

They go out & buy diagnostic tests so that they can prep their kids for the test the special educator is going to give them (which completely invalidates the test results). They hear about it all over the place & start to believe that it's true & that their child must be "defunct". (Um, remember Y2K? Everyone thought the world was going to end...um...I think we're still here.)

So, PLEASE stop feeding this "urban legend" that vaccinations are a direct cause of Autism.

As far as vaccinations go, I have to agree with Vierotchka. I've seen too many immigrant children die of diseases that could easily have been prevented.
We all take risks and I agree that it's up to the individual parent to make that decision, but please weight the FACTS accordingly.

"Jenny McCarthy, who is an informed and passionate advocate for her formerly autistic son and all children diagnosed with autism, is advocating that pediatricians review the innoculation schedule and modify it so that there are fewer vaccines over a longer period of time. "
Again, another case of over diagnosing.

I'm sorry, but using Jenny McCarthy to "cure Autism" is a marketing scheme to sell books. Special educational professionals laughed at her presentation at the recent ASHA conference. Oh yeah, and my male co-workers went just to see her boobs.

I think autism is caused by the pitocin they are giving in the hospitals at birth, along with god knows what other drugs hospitals give newborns and their mothers...mix it with the vaccines later on and that is what I think is damaging our children..say no to hospital births. I hear that home births and The Amish dont have autism because they arent interfered with while bringing life to this planet...Ladies get empowered and get as natural as possible breastfeed your babies and then you have a few years to research what vaccines are necessary and what are another profitable overused med (Chicken pox)..."out of 15,000 home births none had autism" Hospitals are for the sick, a mother gives life...keep newborns out of the hospital unless they are sick!!!! "The Farm" midwifery center has a c-section rate of 2% most hospitals in the U.S. are up to 40%....do your research on everything these days the only people you can be sure are out for your best interest is you!

http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2006/03/11.html
http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/Faith_Manuscripts_2005...

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@Vierotchka and @Binarysunset.... YAY, and thank you and congratulations on adding balance to this "discussion."

the second hit on googling "Eric Hollander pitocin" was http://www.autismconnect.org/news.asp?section=00010001&... and its "conclusion" :

"The problem is this: experiments have shown that when rats are given oxytocin, they become more sociable, not less (just as happened, by the way, with Dr Hollander's patients). On this basis, oxytocin or Pitocin does not seem likely to induce autism - a predominantly asocial condition - in new-born humans. It could be expected to make them less autistic, not more."

so, oxytocin or pitocin appear to alleviate the symptoms of autism in rats AND human.... after "having caused it"????? now, THAT's an interesting way to blame pitocin for causing it...

and, not to mention, of course, that linking to a "massagetoday" site which, by its very nature just MIGHT be slanted a bit against physician or pharma-related "intervention."

thank you both for helping balance this thread!

i find it even more amusing when the massagetoday link includes "(Author's note: consider how the heightened, augmented uterine contractions might impact the soft fetal cranium and its possible injurious affect on the cranio-sacral system.)"......

it's been known for quite a while that, while the birth canal of human females has NOT been getting much bigger over the past few centuries, the SIZE OF THE CRANIUM of the baby HAS.... so, whether or not any drugs are administered, maybe there's a CAUSE and EFFECT relationship THERE which has NOTHING to do with drugs, but MUCH to do with modern nutrition and "head size".... now, if we use C-section births as a control......

Pitocin and Oxytocin are definitly not the same thing! Oxytocin is beautiful love hormone that is produced when having sex, stimulating nipples, going into labor, bonding with your baby, breastfeeding., ect. Pitocin is the synthetic version made by god knows who. It is used to speed up labor in a very unnatural way making contractions unbearable, stronger, and longer. It is made from Prostin (bull semen), oxytocin from a cow, chloroform (a preservative), and 16% impurities. 90% of all women who give birth in a hospital get some form of Pitocin. Most of the time the pain is so much stronger than normal, and in the hospital they do not allow you to do what your body naturally wants to do to give birth, so most women get an epidural. The epidural allows no pain and numbness and guess what....the oxytocin rush at the end that is the dose of hormone you and your baby need to bond doesn't happen!!!! So if babies are not getting their "bonding/love hormone" in the beginning of life I can only assume that there will be emotional problems later. Pitocin being used with almost every birth is a new concept...so is 1 in every 150 children with autism. I think it is a fusion of the the bull they are injecting children with from the beginning-inside the womb. And of course if you give PITOCIN to a child with autism it may help...because he probably never had the hormone from the beginning. This is just my idea. This is all new and there are not even studies being done on this I dont think. If any other mammel had an epidural or a c-section they would disown their child, maybe even eat it! What we are doing in hospitals to babies is cruelty and Pitocin is a nasty little drug...NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH OXYTOCIN which is the mystery of love created by the universe that makes the world go around! I just had a natural homebirth of an 8 lbs 21" baby and I can only assume that her head was big and my canal suited her just fine. The womans body is an amazing thing and one thing it can definitly do is give life, and bring it here, but not hooked up to machines, and doused with drugs, that is going to cause major problems in our childrens minds and bodies...including autism. I can only find one study of homebirth and autism, and it is not credible, but I am very curious!

http://www.thebusinessofbeingborn.com/

Oh yeah and as for vaccines...NO WAY IN HELL AM I PUTTING THAT STUFF IN MY PRECIOUS NATURAL PURE BABY! While breastfeeding my child gets all of my immunities, so I have about 2 years to think about which ones are necessary and research what is in them. That video that queenofit posted was great!

@leeafton, this is the difference between science and religion....
=======================================

"Oxytocin is beautiful love hormone....... Pitocin is ...made by god knows who. ..... speed up labor in a very unnatural way..... It is made from (bull semen), ... from a cow, chloroform (a preservative), and 16% impurities. ......... in the hospital they do not allow you to do what your body naturally wants to do to..... oxytocin rush ... is the dose ... you and your baby need to bond ...! So if babies are not getting their "bonding/love hormone".....in the beginning of life

.....I can only assume that there will be emotional problems later.

.....And of course if you give PITOCIN to a child with autism it may help...because he probably never had the hormone from the beginning.

This is just my idea.

This is all new and there are not even studies being done on this I dont think.

If any other mammel [sic] had an epidural or a c-section they would disown their child, maybe even eat it!

What we are doing in hospitals to babies is cruelty and Pitocin is a nasty little drug...NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH OXYTOCIN

which is the mystery of love created by the universe that makes the world go around! I just had a natural homebirth of an 8 lbs 21" baby and

I can only assume that her head was big and my canal suited her just fine.

The womans body is an amazing thing and one thing it can definitly do is give life, and bring it here,

but not hooked up to machines, and doused with drugs, that is

going to cause major problems in our childrens minds and bodies...

including autism. I can only find one study of homebirth and autism,

and it is not credible, but I am very curious!
======================================

i respect your right to come to conclusions like yours, but i also recognize that feelings and beliefs and claims without any repeatable evidence, as you have stated repeatedly above, do NOT constitute "scientific evidence" of any value at all, except to you and anyone else for whom that's all that's needed.

my "belief" is: if it can't predict future outcomes, it's useless. if it "predicts" only historical data, it's useless.

most of what you said, and i excerpted here, is a compilation of your views, desires, wishes, and images.

one experiment is worth ten thousand "expert opinions."

There are definitly some facts in there...like the fact that oxytocin is the love hormone...look it up! But I dont think you will ever get a scientific experiment to tell you what labor and childbirth is really like and the power of emotion because you are a man, so I wouldnt expect you to understand =)

@leeafton...

re: "But I dont think you will ever get a scientific experiment to tell you what labor and childbirth is really like and the power of emotion because you are a man, so I wouldnt expect you to understand =) "

absolutely! and an excellent reason to ignore or negate everything else i might say [or believe...]

let's see... "In life, Understanding is the booby-prize"
--- Werner Erhard