'America has hardly even begun to repay its debt to Iraq' - Baghdad official

We owe them!?! Oh, that's rich.

How much should it cost to have a dictator removed from power? And now that Saddam is gone, what services is America providing that Iraq needs to pay for?

JohnA, we did go into their country and royally fuck things up. Iraqis were never dying in the current number of fatalities directly as a result of our occupation when Hussein was in power. Yeah they were bitching about how strict and corrupt he was, but we also have been bitching about Bush and how corrupt his administration is... What if Russia or China were to come over and say "Let's throw George Bush out of power and show the American people that our way of life is better than theirs."? We asked for this JohnA, and now that we have to pay the piper we are saying they owe us? I think it is more fair to say "we owe them".

Mafioso, I agree. We let George W. and the neocons spin us into war. We were misled, not by accident, but by 'Generals' and mainstream media, who gave them a platform for their war theories. Which proved to be incorrect.

Do you remember when George W. invited the terrorists there, so we don't have to fight them here? 'Bring em on'!

'Ooops, my bad' only works on television shows. In real life, if you break it you bought it. We let them do it! We have not held them accountable, which leads one to believe we condoned it?

I don't know -- it seems like we've rebuilt a helluva a lot of stuff in the 5 years we've been there. We built a brand new power plant for them and totally upgraded their electrical infrastructure which Saddam hadn't made any improvements on since 1982.

And it's not like they're broke!

If Iraq want's to try and garnish Pres. Bush's wages, I say "Go for it!"

Hold him responsible, not me. If Iraq has a problem -- I'll be more than happy to hand Bush's ass over to be thrown into an Iraqi Debtor's Prison.

Seems like a fair deal to me. Obama can use his new Presidential powers to "render" Bush over to the Iraqi in exchange for writting off any debts they feel we owe them.

Hope Bush doesn't mind having a black bag dropped over his head, flown to Syria, "agressively interrogated" by Iraqi debt collectors and then being handcuffed naked to the cement floor of a prison cell. What am I say? Of course HE wouldn't mind! He thinks it's fair and just for the "guests" we have at GitMo.

.....and who was it that set Saddam and Osama up in the first place? And now WE need somebody to pay us to remove them when we set them up in the first place?

Well Crob, saying Bush is solely responsible for the war in Iraq is irresponsible, because whether you voted for him or not, he's in office and it was the result of an election. Which means it was America's choice. Now whether that election was rigged or not, we (the people) have the power to oust the president if congress isn't willing to, and we haven't. Because we are sheep, and that inlcudes you and I, because as much as we bitch and moan, we still put up with it, collectively as a nation. So it's not just on Bush, it's on all of US!


And as far as the power plant, it doesn't even effectively provide power to Iraqi people, it only powers the important buildings (those used by the US or the Iraqi government), most Iraqi civilians have it worse than they did before the invasion.

And to top it off generators, hospital equipment, and other things needed for the basic reconstruction of Iraq don't even work properly or are badly damaged and used. How nice of us Americans to send used items to a country we invaded.

And you are right that Iraq isn't poor, but the vast majority of Iraqi civilians now are and as a direct result of the occupation. The money Iraq does have is funneled into corrupt channels thanks largely to the contracts, deals, and negotiations brokered by the US. So the money doesn't go to the people, which is why they still need so much help and aid for reconstruction.

So begins the US oil "freeze-out".

I totally agree, we owe them. See if you can find some pics of Bagdad before the war it was a great place. Their leader sucked, but so does ours. This government has proven to be rogues!

I'm going to declare shenanigans on Iraq, for doing the one thing they haven't been able to do in decades, freeing them from a tyrant. We're enabling you to get your filthy little hands on 70 billion dollars of free money you've never fathomed before. If they want to play that way, I say fine, time to start bombing out some terrorists, see if I care what casualties are produced. pricks.

$108 billion that would be nice if we invested that in the US.

And to invade another country then tell them they owe us money? How gangster is that?

"Hey I just crashed my car into your house. I think you should make me dinner."

diode,

Are you serious? How heartless can you be? Who do you think is getting this money? I hope you don't think that 70 billion can repay all of the lost lives and destruction in that country. Nor do you believe this money is going to distributed to the faithfull in $300 stimulas checks. I love being an American, but from the test of time YOUR forefathers have slaughtered and enslaved HUMAN BEINGS (not casualties) for their own profit. Why is it that Americans seem to think that an American life is worth more than others. There are tyrants ruling people all over this world, that the US has no intention of dethrowning. If you think we went over there to "free the people" then you must lobbying for Bush to do a 3rd term.

1love. not totally. bush is doing something very important for this country. Without a source of oil, our country would plummet into 3rd world status. don't believe me? think about it. no semi-truck transportation, no airlines, no military. no automobiles. maybe a handful but not enough to do anything positive. no plastics. no industry. we would come to a screeching halt.

and when it comes to other tyrants, like most of the African nations, the utterly worthless UN should be doing something, but never has, which is why we conveniently stepped into Iraq and probably soon the rest of the middle east.

this is just like Vietnam. I can't wait for the next decade when I don't have to hear about it anymore from the bleeding green hearts

and yes, I am a bit heartless. and this is my opinion, and I am sticking to it. If you have a problem, discuss, but as soon as I hear the ever popular hate america/bush/republicans thing, I stop listening because you're just being a goretool

this will be a little controversial but you could make the argument that an american life is worth more than others. look at our output compared to other countries. you can put an economical dollar figure, scientific breakthrough, some sort of discovery etc etc to most of it.

also, it has nothing to do with being an American and a slave owner. we had a demand for labor, Africans who went turncoat supplied the labor. people, every kind, have been enslaved at some point in history. it's nothing new. its a practice that has been put in use for centuries. get over it.

and good god no, I do not want bush for a 3rd term. he completely wasted a perfectly good 4 years that should have been full of progress. and by this I do not mean a thing about the Iraqi war but progress for us as a country.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

No human life is worth more than another, the sooner we all realize this the better.

diode,
**and yes, I am a bit heartless. and this is my opinion, and I am sticking to it. If you have a problem, discuss, but as soon as I hear the ever popular hate america/bush/republicans thing, I stop listening because you're just being a goretool **

That's 'GORETOOL' to you mister! I am not a Republican, nor am I heartless. I have problems to discuss, but you appear to have you mind made up.

The ever popular hate America/Bush/Republican thing is almost laughable. I don't hate America, I don't even hate Republicans (although I do greatly dislike the ones who drink the kool-aid). But, George W. is another issue. He has earned any anger and contempt that comes his way.

I definitely don't think he should 'walk off into the sunset in November'. That would be a travesty! Never again should we have a 'decider' instead of a 'Leader'. George Bush gave himself the name 'decider'. I watched him do it. Sad!

A different voice, I think this wounded Vet would disagree, but watch this short piece for yourself. It makes you look at things differently, I promise.

http://current.com/items/88929130_everything_went_black

diode,

Ok this is my last comment on this issue. I get it. I understand the effects of not being able to get oil from the most abundant source on earth. All the why and why nots. But, have you noticed that the rest of the world can think for themselves. Gone are the days when the western world tells a country to jump and they ask how high. They have their own opinions and culture. Their regional conflicts aren't going to end because we said so. All we can do is advise.

The US and China are the largest consumers of oil. But China's not at war, they're at the negotiating table. The Middle East does not need us to sell oil and spanking them when they won't listen doesn't work. At some point we need to learn to play well with others. We don't have to be friends to make a business deal. You may say that's a bit immoral when you think about some of the things Saddam did to his own people. But oil companies have been in conflict areas for years, they don't have a problem making deals. People are dying so life as we know it won't come to a halt, while oil companies are enjoying the largest profits ever. I'm sorry this I don't get.

well interesting article, Iraq should use a lot of their money to support their people, but i can also see how we owe them, we kinda are the ones that destroyed the country, on a side note diode i think your mentality rivals satans

Yes, JohnA - we owe them big time.

justwannafindmytrue -

my mentality eh? so be it. you seem to have the mentality of a fool. get over it. life goes on without having to attack myself. if you disagree, then make your voice heard. there is no need for individual attacks on this oh so "open minded" of web sites

conniepae-

i appreciate your actually thought out response to mine and not throwing out thoughtless barbs like numerous other people do around here. i see where you are coming from and agree with some of what you say but speaking of things in a civil matter is hard for some users here

i keep my mind as open as can be, if something comes along that makes more sense, or is something better, is a new fact, what have you, so be it.

i myself am not a fan of this last 4 years of presidential leadership but i cut him slack because he is just a puppet.

and hey, whats wrong with kool-aid???

1love-

i also hate oil companies and the fact that they are allowed to do what they are doing. we do need oil, because right now there is nothing that is as efficient and, big and here, practical, that can replace the billions of dollars in petrol based machinery without bankrupting every last one of us. its hard to think of but easily understandable when you think about how oil affects every single industry and every single person in this country in one way shape or form

It takes one to know one...

Diode... your logic would make sense if there wasn't a vast difference in the amount of money that is invested in alternative fuel sources and money that goes into the pockets of ceo's, investors, and corrupt government officials.

You also say that our industries would go bankrupt and come to a screeching halt. Where the fuck have you been. Industries are coming to a screeching halt and going out of business due to high gas prices, that are due to high barrel prices that have to do with oil production and our inability to effectively maintain diplomatic ties with the countries that produce it. Now you might argue why not start drilling more here at home, thinking it would drive oil prices down, but the fact is the cheaper the oil, the higher the demand. So it may start out cheap, but I guarantee once we drill and find oil, we ourselves will be shipping it to places willing to pay a pretty penny to get oil from us, if they feel they will save face in the global community if they buy from the US (although that might be relegated to countries that are already eating out of our hands).

The fact that the Bush administration thought they would have their hands on all the oil supply in Iraq when they ousted Hussein but failed to do so because of the instability that ensued due to our occupation, isn't Saddam Hussein's fault, it is the fault of the adminitstration who couldn't plan a successful invasion. We didn't go in there to free them from a tyrant, we invaded to occupy a region that has an abundance of wealth in the form of primo location, oil supply, and a people itching for some change (I say some, because they don't want to give up their culture, as most Americans want to believe, they just want to be treated more fairly).

Who's gonna free us from our government, that has acted more like a dictatorship by saying "This is what's good for you", rather than asking or asserting, "What do we truly need?". And they need to apply that question to all Americans and not just a set class of people, (the super rich).

You want us to "Thank" George Bush for making sure our economy was stable? You obviously have not been living in the US or not a realistic area of the US. And when I say an unrealistic area of the US, I mean those that live in upperclass neighborhoods in the OC or Beverly Hills or Manhattan. They think the economy is doing well. What they don't realize is that this trend in the economy (recession) will eventually hit them as well, and their lap of luxury living. Because if you haven't noticed Diode, the dollar is shrinking in value, only more valuable than those of the third world, and our industries are suffering losses in the billions because even as their getting low prices in productions overseas, it is now costing them an arm and a leg to ship it to and from.

So when you state that an American life is worth more than that of an Iraqi. I wish you would tell that to the families of the thousands of soldiers that have died in Iraq, or tell that to the veterans of the Iraq war and other wars, who have been conveniently forgotten once they return home or leave the military. Their lives would be worth a lot more if they were actually still alive. My brother, several cousins, uncles, aunts, and brother in law serve in the armed forces, and most have done several tours of duty in Iraq, and even they have to admit (even when they were being targeted by civilian Iraqis working for terrorists) that the conditions in Iraq for the Iraqi civilians are far worse than the government lets on.

And when you say there is nothing more efficient. There is nothing efficient about oil, which is why it costs so much to produce if there isn't an overabundance of it. And the output of CO2. Nothing efficient about that. Yes it may cost alot to start up alternative fuel sources, but once up they would pay for themselves in the amount of money we'd be saving from not having to locate, drill, and discover, oil, then ship, and produce gasoline from it. And talk about the ability to be diplomatic, by being able to offer assistance to foreign countries to develop their alternative fuels. It would be a comprehensive plan that could save billions of dollars, diplomatic ties, and more importantly billions of lives.

Educate yourself Diode, and don't go based on your perception of reality, but what is the reality for everyone, not just you and yours.

When you say the UN should do something, what about holding America accountable for the civil wars and crisis' they have enabled? Such as Vietnam, Afghanistan, and even Iraq. Fact is we put Hussein in power. We gave Bin Laden and his army the weapons they needed to drive the Russians out and then abandoned them to fend for themselves, which is the main reason Bin Laden hates America so much. And now that human rights is the "in" thing to do, we criticize China for dealing with Sudan and their treatment of Tibet. When the facts are we have been dealing with Sudan in the midst of the worst killing that occurred there and still deal with them and China. We've enabled some of the worst civil wars and dictatorships for our own (USA's) selfish reasons and it isn't even for the benefit of all Americans, but for the super rich, corrupt and the profits of big business.

Just what the USA needs right now - more debt. Great job, Bushie!

We do owe them since we did go over there and cause a lot of damage. I hope in January the new President will pull us out asap.