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Blackwater: Privatization of military permanent?

  4. jimmyp
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With the concentration of military might in private hands growing, I wonder what happens to the soldiers and equipment if the Democrats are elected? Personally, the best thing I can come up with is to enlist all of them. They're trained soldiers and we apparently need them in the ARMY. What do you think?

How dangerous is it to have private military operating in US (or any) territory?

What is the "right" or conservative point of view? And the liberal POV? Shouldn't they be close?

STORY from DemocracyNow.org

Southern California Residents Gear Up for New Fight to Stop Secretive Expansion by Military Firm Blackwater

Just two months after local opposition thwarted its effort to build a massive outdoor training facility near San Diego, the private military company Blackwater USA is being accused of secretly trying to build a new one just blocks from the US-Mexico border. Blackwater received approval for the 61,000 square-foot indoor facility in Otay Mesa, California, by filing for permits using the names of two subsidiaries.

Follow link for extended coverage and interviews...Full text, audio and video of Amy Goodman's on DemocracyNow with interview with Raymond Lutz, l(Local resident who has fought Blackwater’s expansion into the San Diego region), and Rep. Bob Filner, Democratic Congress member representing California’s 51st congressional district.
jimmyp

27 responses
Blackwater: Privatization of military permanent?

  • They don't want to enlist they make much more money than our military. Besides many are from guerrilla groups from all over the world. They are dangerous and should be disbanded and made illegal. Germany had private a military. Worked well, for the take over. Check out some of the posts here about them with links, also check out the prison camps that are being built on American soil. Scary.
    recommended by  Vierotchka
    Marilynn_Murray
  • i think (i hope?) you mean guerrilla not gorilla ;)
    digitrash
  • Yes I did, I did my version (I over spell) and used spell check They meant gorilla. I didn't even look after. %D
    Marilynn_Murray
  • when service sector things like military, education, health care and prisons become privatized we jeopardize the reasons these things exist. while its much more efficient and fluid to privatize services, it moves the intent of the service out of the way for profit. profit and greed do dirty things to people and at the end of the day the bottom line becomes more important than healthy people, just wars, proper incarceration, good education.... its a slippery slope and its easy to get lost in detrimental practices.
    recommended by  Vierotchka, Marilynn_Murray
    phillyphil
  • And privatized cost lots more.
    Marilynn_Murray
  • Sorry friends. I agree that privatization of the military should always be avoided and, in fact, made a crime. But Blackwater is not a purely privatized military. They are government contracted military. Government contractors equal government without rules. They are like a branch of the government that is not accountable to it's citizens. It doesn't matter what they charge because the government doesn't have to pay for it with their own money, they use our money or they simply print or borrow more to pay them (which is still an inflation tax on us!). When you don't allow the government to borrow whenever they want to then they cannot start imperialist wars at a whim. And they certainly wouldn't have the funds to hire mercenaries.

    And as far as that education argument, public education doesn't even compare to private education. The government spends more and more each year per student and the test scores, reading proficiency and graduation rates still continue their slippery slide to the bottom. Take a look at Michael Hodges Grandfather Economic Report website for more on the "Dangerous Erosion of Education Quality & Productivity."

    http://mwhodges.home.att.net/education.htm
    Hawkmang
  • hawkmang:
    i don't understand the difference between a privatized military force and a "government contracted military" that operates on its own rules.

    my argument does not concern how well public education works, but rather to points towards the commodification of everything. i think that you are right that private education gets more dollars per kid, produces better test scores and can foster a superior learning environment. but the problem, in my eyes, is that it does a few things that suck:
    -not everyone can afford private school
    -pulling kids outta private school makes parents not vote for tax increases in public schooling
    -creates a schism from the start between "classes" of people
    -often ends up putting dollars and new recruits above education and current students
    -makes schools focus on sports to get money
    -the bottom line is money

    when we are concerned with things that all citizens deserve and should have provided, including safety (military), education and health, those things in and of themselves should be the priority instead of $$$$$. privatization changes the focus to money, then we get lost.
    recommended by  Vierotchka
    phillyphil
  • How much access to our intelligence gathering apparatuses does Blackwater have?

    How much raw intelligence do they provide?
    jimmyp
  • I don't see a big problem with privatized military. Some say that the government might turn and use them against us instead of the gov't military. To that I say that there is a very good reason for the second Amendment to the Constitution and for it to be SECOND.
    BleachedBlind
  • How effective is your hunting gun against a tank? Why do you think prison camps are being constructed all across the country? Who are they going to put in them? Who are they going to use to gather up the people to fill them? Why did we make a deal with Canada for military help in a National emergency like when Martial law is imposed? Check this out there are several posted on You Tube. FEMA Prisons or Camps.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=dJBxdRIQx7Y&feature=rela...
    recommended by  Vierotchka
    Marilynn_Murray
  • When President Obama visits Iraq to assess the ground situation and begin to withdraw American troops, I hope to God Blackwater operatives [not the army] escorts him.

    In case you didn't notice, the US military is a BIG joke - an army of boneheaded, incompetent boys....totally incapable of defeating unequipped. untrained civilian combatants.

    Blackwater has the best trained, equipped, informed soldeirs on the planet...

    They DO NOT recruit from guerilla militant groups. They are hand picked from our national elite/special military forces [US and its allies] ...they are the best of the best.

    B-water is held to much higher standards than ANY national armed forces......and unlike US military soldiers..can be tried as civilians and are not protected by intnl war laws.

    Unlike the US military, Blackwater has to calculate the human and financial cost of every single maneuver and operation.

    There's a reason they are the ONLY choice for security detail when senators and diplomats travel through Iraq.

    Because they are private, they're under greater scrutiny and are more accountable than every national armed forces branch.

    If America hopes to get out of Iraq this century, Blackwater is the ticket.

    this popular 'outrage' toward Blackwater is a wagging farce - a distraction - fueled by sensational tabloid press coverage and a population which has no understanding of the ground situation in Iraq or the realities of war.


    re:
    "How much access to our intelligence gathering apparatuses does Blackwater have?"

    -very little, not enough

    "How much raw intelligence do they provide?"

    -more than most branches of the US military

    http://powet.tv/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Ir...
    smorrisey
  • Hate to disagree Smores, but I do. Blackwater is bad news. Of course they are better equipped they operate cost plus. Remember the SUVs they used to set fire to when they got flat tires? They DO recruit from guerilla militant groups. Look it up. They are accountable to no one. It is written in their contract. Guess why some of them were murdered and dragged through the streets. Because they do horrendous things to innocent civilians. They are without conscience or integrity. It was a private army that allowed Hitler to do what he did.
    Marilynn_Murray
  • Ahhhh! Blackwater and the concept of privatized military forces creep me out. I'm most worried about the secrecy and lack of regulation. I, mean, how much do we know about the U.S. military operations (i.e. Guantanamo Bay) and how vague can the government get on its torture policy? And now we want to throw vigilantes and war-mongers into the mix?!

    It may be silly, but for the love of god, watch "Iron Man" or something and realize how immoral it is to profit off death and fear.
    renbyrd
  • Blackwater is a profoundly evil and dangerous corporation which employs sociopath killers. It should be completely dismantled and destroyed, and such companies made illegal.
    recommended by  Marilynn_Murray
    Vierotchka
  • Disturbing facts, to say the least.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqM4tKPDlR8
    media
    Vierotchka
  • with all 'due respect', you people have no idea what you're taking about and should read more ann coulter
    http://www.anncoulter.com/

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24458706/
    smorrisey
  • Why should we infect our minds by reading mindless and psychopath Ann Coulter's hate-filled and insane rants?
    recommended by  Marilynn_Murray
    Vierotchka
  • OK...my last quesiton: Are they a risk to the government? As in a coup?
    recommended by  Marilynn_Murray
    jimmyp
  • Hire murdering thugs from Blackwater as US Soldiers? They aren't fit to wear the uniform! They all should be in jail! Blackwater is an illegal militia organization authorized by the Bush Administration to assist in a secret war that acts as if it is above the law. They aren't US Soldiers who can be Court Martialed for illegal activites. What is the Gubment gonna do with Blackwater folks? The same thing they won't do to Bush--hold them accountable for the crimes they've committed!
    recommended by  Marilynn_Murray
    Grain_Of_Sand
  • so how do i go about making my own private army?
    RoBot_rOcKer
  • on the subject of recruitment, the kind of people that get into black water are mostly american, but these kind of guys recruit the likes of ex south african police, ex british police, american police, soldiers of all three, they probably have the odd rhodesian. they are sociopaths and atleast a few good men, but i'd say in my personal oppinion they are marked by some mission(s) that make them a reliable choice as mercenaries. with the cold war and western operations since the nazis a lot of surplus is produced, and the west always needs someone to do a dirty job. private contractors is the latest name for them.
    on the subject of operating in iraq i'd say personal bodygaurds should be the limit of any of them. it is after all meant to be a functioning country wrecked with guerilla warfare after all. its illogical for two organisations to operate out of different centres of command let alone the amount of britsh and US companies operating there.
    lastly iraq is meant to be a sustained forward base, like a more active japan or germany, and that means these corperate contracts be it food military residential or whatever will be sustained. i know US troops should be pulled out of iraq but thats very unlikely. now in my mind it was always obvious iraq would become an advanced base from the first " end of the war ". but if its so evident they'll be there so long, isn't the point of outsourced contracts lost. in case you haven't heard a politician say it, " Outsourcing contracts are cheaper for short lengths of time. " i realize that simplifies it alot but the idea of moving the full weight of the US military would take time and administrative communication and paperwork, mobilizing.. anyway the point is they should of just done it properly instead of making all these corporations a lot of money, its like paying for a black cab to get to work every day. i live in london..
    Kabimbi
  • Marilynn_Murray
  • I'm sure this will not be too popular of an idea among most people, but I've given it a lot of thought. And with a compotent government (that doesn't make needless war) I would not be apposed to a draft or mandatory two years of service or something similar. This would give us all some military training and if we knew we would all have to serve this would make us and our politicians think twice before going to war and sending there sons (and possibly daughters) to fight and possibly die in a conflict that insn't necisary.
    NutLee
  • Hired mercenaries... is that who should be fighting for the US of A? Is the 'volunteer army" concept a complete myth now?
    Elligirl
  • If the US military paid more in line with what we pay the private military there would be no problem. People would make careers out of the military, we wouldn't we recruiting people with jail records. Why would anyone want to put their life on the line for a life of poverty?
    Marilynn_Murray
  • Hawkmang, the main thing that's wrong with public schools is size. Private schools are usually small in size. I went to a small rural school when I was a kid; no one ever got out of first grade without learning to read. My own kids went to Catholic School and got a great education.

    My second batch (grandchildren) went to a California public school. It was actually a good although poorly funded school. The junior high was great, and I have no complaints. The high school was old and being remodeled. Still a great school.

    The worst school my kids ever went to is beautiful and huge. We'd moved to Texas. My AP honors student dropped out in her senior year of high school. She took her SAT tests and got over five hundred invitations from collages, some of the best to consider them. She loved school until we got here. Way too many students and a cop on every campus. It is awful.

    People look at that school and I'm sure they are impressed; they have no idea what isn't happening inside.
    Marilynn_Murray
  • They might be at risk to the government at some time in the future. They might also help this one control us troublemakers and remain in power. I have read everything I could find on them since I first heard about them, it isn't pretty. They are a danger to Democracy. Google them and read up on their activities. They should be disbanded and outlawed, not given contracts to be overseas representing us or with big Homeland Security contracts on our soil.
    Marilynn_Murray

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