More than 200 economists reject Clinton/McCain gas-tax plans

slowdive, thanks for posting this. I'm not an economist, but this seems like a stupid idea to me. So what, it's just a couple of months and then we're back to the same ole, same ole. Why would any Americans back this up? Is the public as short-sighted as the politicians are hoping? At least Obama spoke out against this idea.

Terry McAuliffe AND HIllary "don't matter!"

Only oil and the neo-cons would benefit from such a tax holiday. Why? Oil companies would automatically charge more meaning the money would go to them, state and federal governments would be in worse shape financially making it easier to become a fascist state.

Yes, Obama's been the only one to deliver the bitter pill that this is a bad idea.

If anyone wants to take action against this, here's a petition to be delivered to McCain and Hillary: http://www.gastaxscam.com/letter.html

Here's some good background and information on the gas-tax idea as well: http://www.gastaxscam.com/info.html

It is indeed a bad idea for many reasons.

Oil prices are not ever going to come back down again guys, and it's not because oil companies are corrupt. By 2015, we'll have reached peak production. We simply can't pull oil out of the ground it fast enough to supply our ever growing economies. We can't do this because we haven't found any new oilfields and the largest and most reliable ones on the planet are getting hard to tap. There's plenty of oil left, but it's hard to get to.

If the government wants to help with gas prices, it should ask people to be more responsible with their energy.

Other countries are asking their citizens to turn off their power completely for one hour about once a week. I think they said it was about the equivalent of taking tens of thousands of cars off the road for a day in terms of what was saved.

Follow their example and try that.

If they do this, it will just hurt that much more when the gas-tax "holiday" ends.

saladin is right. if we all turn off a few lights when we pass through the den, it would have a tremendous impact. And how about those office lights in every major city.

Why don't we demand our local governments limit after hours usage to cleaning crews, workers and secruity?

Yer linear thinkers. How it was isn't an indication of how it can or even will be.

Also - this propaganda about "peak oil production" is just that. My father is nearly 80 and has been listening to one version or another of "we're running out" BS all his life.

Oh, but of course, it's true this time, right?

Just like the stock market would never crash - "this time" - referring back to the foolish thinking of all who invested in it prior to the "high tech" crash.

Just like the housing market now, foolishly thinking it would appreciate forever and ever - as it crashes. Oh, but it's only because of those darn people who made bad choices - whom McCain and Bush say shouldn't be helped because they don't want to reward bad decisions (say, they still have jobs, why are they being rewarded, that's another story) when actually, it's part of a much bigger cycle of greed and stupidity.

Putting a band-aide on an open stinky sore are they? Leave it to mommy Hillary and grandpa McCain to kiss the boo-boo away. Meanwhile, Obama is hinting that we might want to dress the wound properly. If anything, this is a great indication on what we have to look forward to with these candidates.

Well put Neghie!

threads like this tell me people really get it and are ready to make the shift. You guys and gals are smart!

Bill Clinton must be working with McCain too.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

If you get 10 economists into a room and ask them all the same question you can get 10 different answers:(

What just occurred though is that Hillary broke through a glass barrier....

Actually stating something that could be done right now...if the Democratic controlled:) Congress had any guts at all...

And Obama, well, he should have thought of it first!

Here it is folks, proof positive that Obama is a fine Orator but when push comes to shove he just doesn't have " The Beef" as in "Where's the beef"?

This was originally Senator McCain's idea; But I guess you already knew that.

Good find know m your big fan

Voyager, you are immensely foolish.

How can you even claim that peak oil is BS when you _clearly_ don't understand what it is? Peak oil production does not mean we are going to run out of oil. Oil will be around for quite some amount of time, hundreds of years possibly. That's not the problem nor is that what people are concerned about.

Peak oil PRODUCTION, which is the key word you don't seem to understand, is the very clear fact that very soon we will not be able to pull oil out of the ground fast enough to fuel our growing economies. This is what people have been concerned about. Most of the major oil fields in the world are reaching a point where it's going to be more and more difficult to pull out less and less amounts of oil. There's still plenty of oil left, no one has or ever will dispute that. The issue is, we can't PRODUCE it fast enough to fuel our economies.

It's not a fantasy, it's been happening for some time. It was predicted by Hubbert in the mid-50's and all of his predictions have come true. His models for peak production have been verified again and again.

If you still don't believe me, perhaps you should check out Shell's own website. You'll be very shocked by what you read.

http://www.shell.com/home/content/aboutshell-en/our_str...

"After 2015, easily accessible supplies of oil and gas probably will no longer keep up with demand."

dont give any breaks to the oil co. we have the tec. and have learned how to do it cleanly, that is tap our own resourses in our own country while we get our asses in gear and take care of our own. remember 'we the people' run the govorment not the ones running it now sucking us dry.

I honestly don't know how to respond to that. Just weird.

i was going to make the same point about voyager's comments, with a bit less venom. My family (not me) have been in the oil business for quite some time, not in the exxon way, but in the business just the same. It is a finite resource, and it doesn't make a good comparison to the stock market or the housing industry as neither of them are a natural resource. It is correct that there is quite a lot left. I do know that in southern Kansas, which is the northern edge of the big Texas oil pool is dropping off in production in a big way. Many speculators are abandoning leases due to the cost of operation and maintenance vs. the amount of actual production. as the oil field dies, they drill a flood well which basically is used to send in high pressure water into the area to force the last drops out of the area into the working wells.

We cannot compare these areas with the massive production areas, but especially as China's economy goes hog-wild, the demand will far exceed production, and as was stated before the methods of extraction, and the locations to obtain oil become more and more costly. This all aims at weaning ourselves away from oil before we go into cold turkey withdrawals...perhaps not us, but our progeny at some point will be left with this problem. I would like to be able to say we began the solution rather than just wringing our hands.

On the oil company side, even if they dont raise prices, they will get more money just because volume of usage will shoot up as the tax is removed, mark that down.

Here's an non popular idea that wouldn't make a big dent, but would set a very potent example. Nascar could say "We are going to take this season off as a token of our concern of not just the dependence on foreign oil, but also to demonstrate that we also use more oil, even at this high cost, than any of us really need to."

My last bit after that unpopular view is somewhat comical. Let's solve the whole primary issue and have McCain Pick Hillary as his running mate since they seem to share similar views on answering our problems, from Oil to the Economy to Iraq.

Well at least she's putting an idea on the table, what's The Great Obama's idea. Oh, I know, he's hoping for change.

and Hope, don't forget that one.

But do remember as was said earlier, it really wasn't her idea, McCain Brought the idea up, and she basically was there to second it.

No, she was there to improve it.
Personally, I dont agree with the tax holiday either but for different reasons. People in this country will never stop being selfish and greedy until they have to pay too much for it.
But as far as Mr Obama's .30 a day- is this only costing you .30 a day? Not me! If it did, I dont think so many Americans would be complaining myself. So is he saying that we are all just whining for no reason? I wonder if it is costing truck drivers .30 a day? I wonder if it is costing other people that have to drive for a living .30 a day? I wonder if all the higher prices we are paying for everything else is because of an extra .30 a day? But at least we have "hope" that it will get better in the future because he proposes that we get better gas milage by 2040. Did anybody notice that the other post said we would start running out by 2015? Or that millions of people are losing their homes today? And billions more will by 2050?
Lets get real. We need to do something today! Not years from now. We need electric cars today! Not when the oil companies can shift their focus to make even more profits. I at least wont somebody that sees that we need to do something not just talk about it!

I think Obama already did this silly plan in his own state and it did not work .That could be why he does not back the idea.

I think the problem is Americans keep wanting. What they are wanting in this case is their cheap gas. And they want their candidate to make it happen for them. There may be more wisdom in letting gas get expensive.

The "hopeful" result of this is that Americans will empower themselves with an argument for peace and energy independence rather than cheap gas and peak oil.

The facts (as twisted as they are) do indicate that we could still have plenty of oil to burn for a long time. The problem with that is IF we do keep burning fossil fuels at this rate we will burn ourselves right off this planet before we have burned all the resources up.

So, if there is more or less oil and it is expensive or cheap should not even matter. We need to see that our industrial age has come to a screeching stop and their are better choices right in front of us.

I'd rather someone present no idea until they could find one that worked than rush out to present an incredibly foolish one.

I guess some people have a boner for Hillary though, and refuse to see the truth.

Just what we need, another president who doesn't listen to experts. If Obama doesn't win, we're in trouble.

It's a bad idea. Much like invading Mexico would be. Suggesting Senator Clinton is a better canidate because she suggests an action plan, however bad is Illoogical.

Apply the same logic to Bush and Iraq...He had a bad plan too...unfortunately, some believed action had to be taken then too. Only the action was not directed at the problem.

Here we have a Senators McCain and Clinton calling for action, but the plans do not address the problem: Dependency on oil, which is in high demand and apparently contributing to global warming.

Now tell me again why this makes Hillary a better candidate...simply because she has a plan to disrupt highway repair funding that will have negilible impact on individuals while encouraging driving and pollution?

My apologies, but I can't agree and find these arguments laughable.

Well when you are done laughing then maybe you should start reading. She is going after the oil companies to get the money, not the highway fund. Which IS a good idea. And although I already stated that I do not agree with the tax break, I am also not so quick to just poopoo the idea, or just reject it as pandering, which is what Obama's supporters do about every single thing she says. And while you are all so happy to say that anybody that considers this is so stupid, maybe you should read the part about how many times your man has voted in favor of it. Was he just pandering when he did it? And I think it is laughable how if HE doesnt listen to the experts, it is because "he is more intelligent than they are" and if she does it, it is because she doesnt listen. And while you put down others for thinking instead of just blindly accepting, think about this, actions speak louder than words. I have been asking for months for one of you to tell me about some actions, and havent gotten a single reply yet! (Beyond, "he is the greatest") and with your theory jimmyp, does ANY plan fit in that catagory, or just one that comes form her? Because from what I have seen so far, all of you would rather wait until 2040 for things to get better.
I started out wanting to love Obama as much as everybody else because she wasnt my favorite choice, and I came here looking for reasons to, but so far all I hear is a bunch of "I hate her she sucks" and no "he is best because..."

NEEDU..you make a lot of false assumptions and untrue statements about me, (I have never said Obama was the greatest or received a question from you).

Save your hateful rhetoric for someone else and try to be more logical and informative vs vitriolic and loud.

Jimmyp, I never made any statements about you, only a question- "jimmyp, does ANY plan fit in that catagory, or just one that comes form her? "
I also never said I asked YOU anything "I have been asking for months for one of you to tell me about some actions, and havent gotten a single reply yet! (Beyond, "he is the greatest"), that was not directed at you but at the people that are always in here supporting Obama. It is usually always the same people and all they do is talk about how much they hate Hillary instead of having a mature discussion about something so important.
Now, as for your statement about me, exactly when have I ever given a statement that was "hateful rhetoric for someone else and try to be more logical and informative vs vitriolic and loud." ? When people are making comments about me making a laughable point they are being logical and informative but if I make a point I am being hateful?

we need to wake up the gov. and all the people band together under one cause. 'WE THE PEOPLE' i wish i had the resoruses to do something besides just complain. ive done some small things like change all my lightbulbs to com. flou. bulbs (what a differance in my utilty bill) cut back on my gas consumption by 50%.I tell a lot of people what I do to save, don't know if they listen though. we need a positive responce from the gov.now not when its too late.

This isnt a supply and demand issue. Are your pumps running out of gas!?!

That is the lie the government is telling you to hide the reality that they are constantly devaluing the dollar by printing out more money to pay for our empire overseas and our welfare state at home.

No one (including oil producing nations) want US dollars anymore. This has a direct effect on the price of oil and if you haven't noticed yet everything else we consume!

I'd just like to point out that the economists agree with Obama. That's good enough for me. I personally thought suspending the tax and depriving the road fund was a bad idea right from the start. We have bridges in dire need of repair. Let's be responsible and let this idea die.

This is why Clinton should NOT be president. There is no change when you have Clinton and McCain co-authoring a bill. Hillary is constantly saying one thing and then proposing another. She claims to be against big corporate interests, against big oil yet she proposes an asinine bill with her potential opponent. If she some how snakes this primary election and we are faced with a choice between McCain and Hillary, I'm moving to Canada!

Clinton is a Democrat in McCain/Bush clothing.

She claims to be anyway.

PatrickEdwardMurray,
Check your facts, Sen. Obama did try this first. This isn't an original idea from Sen. Clinton. She actually got it from Sen. McCain but he didn't originate it either. It was tried by the Illinois St. Senate of which Sen. Obama was a member and it failed miserably. This is a matter of public record and both McCain and Clinton knew it before the threw it out like a panacea for all our woes. It's pandering plain and simple. Not "Well at least she's putting an idea on the table" as JohnA would like to believe for some diluted reason. It's strictly saying whatever she thinks will get her some votes.

You may get ten economist to say ten different things under basic circumstances. But when the ALL agree then you KNOW it's the truth. That's the logical extension of your own argument. This idea helps no one but the politicians that peddle it at the expense of those that would fall for it. Sen. Obama speaks truth to power, yet again.

Sigh. The problem with McCain and Clinton's solution is that it's not going to help in the long term. It's a stop-gap solution at best, and we're way past that point. I don't think we should raise the gas tax yet either--the way this country is designed, way too many people depend on cars to get around, and it wold put an undue hardship on many of them.

Rather than a short-term tax holiday, why not devote money to developing more public transportation infrastructure (so people don't need cars)? Or subsidizing research into alternative fuels? Or offering substantial tax breaks for people buying hybrid cars? Wouldn't those be better solutions?

Another kudo to Obama, for not jumping on the bandwagon on this, which would be a good political move right now.

This shows once again that the message is not important as long as the desired results are obtained. People will notice this proposal is useless, but the primaries will have ended by then. Populism at its best. A pity really.

Anyone else getting the feeling that Hillary Clinton would be ready to do, say or use anything to become president? Or is it just me???

Me too.

I don't support it in whole because I think it would actually bring more cars on the roads thus causing more pollution, and oil companies would eventually get it back at a later date. But then if Obama is so against this, why did he vote for the Bush/Cheney Energy Bill that actually gave more subsidies to these oil companies? Where is his consistency, or is he only against this now because it makes him look better since so many are against the other two who are part of it? And what is his solution then? Hawking 'clean coal' while trying to make us think he is an environmentalist? It is all well and good to trash others for political purposes as that is how the game is played, but then, what is your solution? Do people really give a damn, or is this just another chance to blow off political grudges? And really, the comment picked to go on tv... "Mommy" Hillary and "Grandpa" McCain... sexism and ageism raising its head again among people who claim to be tolerant?

I guess nobody is perfect. At least not when it comes to politics. However, when it comes to choosing between the three I would probably still pick Obama (even if he might only be the lesser evil).
And honestly, I don't think that his position on gas taxes makes Obama look better right now. The opposite seems to be the case. And with the whole Jeremiah Wright story, he's unfortunately loosing ground. However questionable Obama's position might be, I don't think that another eight years of Clinton are a good alternative.
Now I might not be an idealist, but I just don't believe you get to be a senator and a presidential candidate without making any mistakes on the way... it's just that some mistakes are bigger than others...

"Mommy and Grandpa" sometimes a joke is just a joke. I'm pretty sure no one was trying to denigrate all women and the elderly.

Finally Jan, where've you been? I need a voice of reason!

Not only would this be bad for the economy in the long run, but it would also have negative effects in the environment because people would once again drive long distances for long period of times producing plenty of CO2 gas especially during summer aka vacation season.

i say high prices = less desire to drive = better environment. Let's see how high prices can go until people STOP DRIVING.

while I can appreciate the admonition that we need to wean ourselves from oil....how about we wean ourselves from WAR...which consumes more fuel than anything else we are doing.

The two are intimately connected. Most of the conflicts in the latter part of this century revolved around oil, this war being no exception.