Why Israel?

whisrael... whsrael... whs- ... not as funny as whiowa...

Umm

Isreally? Isreally? Iono . . . Do they Israelly have to be an ally?

Israelly Israelly- a very violent country right in step with DUMB YA and his cronies. Kill em all and take thier resources. Ever since Cain killed Able the Israelly have been killing and taking and have never stopped.

The Jews own the banks; the Jews run the country.

Robroy1 - ew.
You are no better than an ignorant redneck calling for Iran to be wiped off the map.
Just ew.

It's an interesting question that I think has some uncomfortable answers.

I think a lot of support goes back to WWII after we had learned what happened to them under Hitler. People had a lot of sympathy for them after that cataclysm.

I think another reason, as unwilling as people are to admit this, is that Jews do hold a lot of interest and power in this country. I'm not trying to be anti-semitic and I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, but I do think that it's true.

But the biggest reason is the collaboration of Christian and Jewish values. With the rise of Christian Fundamentalism in this country, people became obsessed with the rapture. I saw a stat that said something like 60% of Americans believe the rapture will happen in their lifetime. And anyone who knows the story of revelations can figure out why Fundies are so obsessed with the protection of Israel. Like hardcore Zionists, they believe they are the children of God. And with a president like Georgie, who doesn't believe in evolution, it's not surprising why they are valued so highly. Even though they are a terrible and detrimental ally.

Because of that, even if a President didn't like them, any action that doesn't support INSTANTLY destroys your entire constituency.

I think another thing we should discuss in this thread, is the merit of Zionism. Has it really been good for Jews? Was it the answer to all their hardships?

I don't think it has in my opinion. It twists what is one of the most tolerant religions in the world into a seriously demented one in my opinion. In order to be logically consistent, if you support Israel you must believe you are a child of God. And that means you MUST have a literal interpretation of the Torah, which I don't think is a good thing at all. Even for progressive or casual Jews, it is unacceptable to not support Israel. If you support them, then you MUST believe that you are a child of God. By must, I don't mean that you will believe it automatically, but rather that it is the deductive consequence of that belief.

I think that's very damaging to the Jewish faith. It makes it very exclusive and turns it into a race instead of a faith. Not just any race though, it makes Judaism into "God's race." Which I think is terrible because the Jewish faith is known for its tolerance.

It's also important to note that Zionism is a copycat movement of the German and Italian nationalist movements in the late 1800's, and it did some very damaging things to those countries later on.

I support Israel's right to exist because it is obviously too late to turn back now. But if we were to decide today, I would say no. While I think the migration of Jews back to Jerusalem is a good idea (although there's the problem of antisemitism), a nation based on a religion is NOT a good idea. It just has too many problems. And I think Jews are accepted enough in the U.S. and in other places that if they didn't want to they could still form tight knit communities and carry on their traditions to new generations.

I also think, on a related subject, that Jerusalem should be an independent city state. Open to all and governed by an electorate of the city with respect to the three main religions. I think it would solve a lot of problems in the middle east.

I thinks it's a military answer. They provide us with the most powerful, well trained, well equiped, ally in the region. They invented the UAV, the Desert Eagle, the Uzi, and the Galil. They're basically the most likely to win in a fight against the other countries there in a war. Also, the Isreali government allows Christian pilgrims to march in the streets to places they consider holy, on certain hollidays, and since the Western world is predominantly Christian, I think this makes the West respect them more.

The initial question obviously demonstrates a considerable amount of thought and sensitivity to the issue as well. Rather than going on with a lengthy diatribe about the founding of the state by a majority of the members of the United Nations (not the US alone) as well as Israels very strong trading, strategic, and diplomatic ties with Germany, Turkey, Great Britain, Canada, and France (to name but a few) today, I'd suggest that you 'Google' any number of sites on the internet that dispassionately discuss and, for the most part, answer most of your questions. When you've done that and continue to have questions, it's then that I'd urge you to either come back here and pose the remaining quandaries or, perhaps, find a person on a Jewish and/or Israel site prepared to have a dialogue with you.

Sand, I would argue that the U.S. gives Israel most of its funding for those projects. So I wouldn't say we rely on them for that. Besides, the U.S. makes enough toys on its own.

The desert eagle is a terrible pistol by the way, but everything else is pretty solid. Especially the uzi, although maybe not its iron sights.

At Dr, while I'm sure it's bothersome to recite such a long and complex history, it's not really productive to enter this discussion by essentially saying "look it up." We want to know what YOU think. =)

The only time that I don't venture an opinion is when someone is subtly and sincerely asking for a litany of facts. If you'll note the questioner's basic grasp of the facts quickly reveals itself to be absent. The lengthy tabulation of countries that we apparently do not side with demonstrates an absence of treaty knowledge as well as of current affairs. I'd go on except, as I suggested in the aforementioned 'comment', in order to have a spirited, sincere, and intelligent discourse, one ought to first 'arm' themselves with a fundamental knowledge of the issue. Insofar as you, Sir, are concerned - I should think that if you had any respect for the person asking the question - you'd allow them the courtesy of speaking for themselves and directly to me. Apparently - yours is an issue of control.

Somewhat a huge missconception as to who the "Jew" of today are? How many are blood decendants of the original Jews. What did it mean to be a jew in the first place. Where do Jews come from. Who were these exiled Jews?? Do Jews even know?? Some have pointed to 18th Dynasty Eygpt. But it's easy to play the balance of being like 'you've got a lot of time on your hands buddy' and so forth. What I mean is, that when you start to point to information you are called a lunatic or slandered and such. When in fact these are important subjects and I'm glad you brought it up. The contradictions and paradoxes are startling, unlike any subject you can speak of. You can loose your Job, your friends, Lives are at stake here easily clear to see. You have a legit question.

Very spirited and informative conversation as I hoped it might be. Also, for the most part, very articulate and respectful for which I am appreciative.

A few assumptions were made in the process I see. The question was designed to illicit opinions, feelings if you will, as well as knowledge. I wasn't trying to demonstrate my vast knowledge of the region and I certainly know how to research a question if all I wanted was raw data.

In addition, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible to be Israeli and not Jewish? A lot of the responses are predicated on a Jewish basis. I'm looking at the country as a whole realizing of course Jews are a great part of it as well.

Again I'm not looking for reason to justify Israels existence or destruction. Israel is a sovereign nation with all the rights and abilities that come along with that distinction. However, so was Iraq and what about the Palestinian Nation? Is their a path to peaceful coexistence and equal support and recognition for them as well?

Saladin and SandMouse have pieces of this extremely complex issue correct. Also as DrBehavior added, it is better to do some research on your own because of the complexity and importance of this issue.

But to break it down to its most basic form, Israel provides the U.S. with an important military ally (and essentially a permenant U.S. military base) in the most oil rich area of the world. The strong Jewish community in this country and the ties between Christianity and Judiasim also help to connect the two countries, as fundamentalists in both religions are threatened in general by Islam and unite against its strong presence in the same area. So basically you have natural resources, religion and military strategy combining to force the U.S. into economically and military supporting Israel (at least in many politicians eyes).

The history of sympathy towards Jews after WWII is also important in the history of the formation of Israel and its continued support today, as members of the jewish community have made tremendous efforts to make sure that their specific tragedy is forever embedded in mass media's concience. (not a judgment just a statement of fact, and something that other persecuted groups throughout history have never been nearly as successful at doing)

Korourke,

Now that was impressive, succinct and on point - well done.

Korourke hit the nail on the head. It's primarily the Jewish influence. In the Middle East, groups argue that modern day Jews have no right to the land they occupy. Someone earlier questioned the need to research blood ancestry, I can't say I really question the bloodline, more so the rights. The Jew suffered a great injustice and received money, land and military support. As I understand, the Jews migrated out of the middle east many many years ago, but was later (after Hitler) was allocated a portion of their "homeland" where they would eventually return, hence the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Like I said "as I understand" I could be wrong.

It's true however, no other group has ever been able to make the same impact or get the same alliance with any western power. From African Americans asking for reparations (like the Jews received) to the South Africans (or should I say Black South Africans) fighting to be free from apartheid and regain their land. May people have suffered the same if not more than the Jewish people, but no one else has had the support to move forward.

Back to the question "Why?", who knows!!!

Saladin said it best up above... It is counter intuitive but there are plenty of forces working behind the scenes to ensure its continued existence... Whether it be the immensely powerful lobbyists or the religious belief of fundamentalist Christians...

The one thing I will say is that it is difficult to argue for support because Israel is a Democracy... In this case there should be less support for countries like Saudi Arabia... Even Egypt which is technically a democracy, but gets a pass for passing legislation that was considered the worst human rights violations in the past few decades... If we support Israel because its a democracy, why do we support Saudi Arabia, Egypt and countless other nations? The argument holds no merit in my eyes and the answer to why Israel gets the support it does from the USA is simply because of the behind the scenes motives that pretty much run the modern world... I think Saladin said it best in his statements above...

Question- Would a military ally/ permanent military base be needed in the Middle East if the USA was not as supportive of Israel? Seems like the US support is the fuel for the vilification of the US in the region and most of the Muslim world...

I agree, which is why I don't think it's the main reason they have so much of our support.

Keep in mind that (until recently I believe) the U.S. was cool with Turkey. We could just as easily have bases there and arguably more useful ones.

I see no logic in the arguments posted here by other users.
it is ridiculous, absurd and maybe feeble minded to claim that the world's strongest nation is being run by the smallest minority on earth.
the US "have enough toys of its own" because they invest in think tanks all over the world (for ex. israeli and indian engineers).
the examples mentioned above could not be worse... I think that mentioning inventions like the sight kill for modern fight planes (made in israel) that nowdays the US incorporates in each and every fighter is better (and there are ALOT of other stuff).
more over, relations with the US puts alot of restrictions on israel (yes, LOOK IT UP).
this is a two way partnership, nothing more and nothing less.

Everyone deserves their own country, Jews, Arabs, Muslims, everyone...except the dutch, damn fat lazy dutch!

you need to do research into this. not get peoples opinions from a source like current which has numerous biases in every direction.

start with ancient world history of the region, then biblical history of the region. then ww2 history of the region.

I've always heard anti-Jewish/anti-Israel sentiment all my life, part of it is because I'm Polish, and my family has negative views. But I'm a fair human being, and need proof and seek truth. But when I became adult, it became clear, that in America, there is a default acceptance and favoritism of Israel.

It boils my blood, that whenever I put on an "American" news show, on TV or radio, somehow, there is ALWAYS something about Israel. We are brainwashed and conditioned, to almost believe that Israel is just ANOTHER STATE of this country, it's ridiculous, and makes me sick. It's in our psyche, just like Iraq. I feel like this whole world is made of the U.S., Iraq, Israel, and our moon is called China.

Think about it, anyone else feel me on this?

Compare the news on say, BBC, Canadian, NPR, or any other country, and you'll get stories from South America, Europe, Africa, China. But CNN, Fox Noise (News) LOL, and even sadly NPR at times, and it's just American and its interests, it's sad. And we wonder why adults in this country have NO CLUE about other countries, geographies, cultures, and matters, how can we except our kids to do better.

Too many people in this country are told what music to listen to by MTV, what to eat by McDonalds, and told what to think by Fox News.

Wake up America, cut your strings off!

the fact that this simple question has to be primed with a statement amounting to "im not an anti-semite, but.." is quite telling of this issue..

there is a severe absence of open discussion and validation of facts when it comes to things israeli.. this general apprehension to criticize israeli/zionist policy results from the knee-jerk reaction to label any such person or investigator an anti-semite.. couple this habit with the proactive nature of incessantly reminding the public of the many horrors and innocent victims of the holocaust, and you essentially have muted any criticism of the zionist nation..

an important distinction to emphasize is the difference between jewish and zionist.. there are many christian and even muslim zionists who support israel in its modern version of apartheid.. while there are also a large number of jewish people who are directly opposed to the existence of israel..

below is a link to practicing jews who support the rights of all humans and not just the jewish people..

http://nkusa.org

its illogical to extract recognition and commemorate an unjust act to support further injustice.. america, by virtue of its support for israel, appears to be guilty by more than just simple association..

peace

Simple, America is Christian, and there are many religious sites in Isreal and surrounding areas that are most important. We also get lots of intelligence from Isreal regarding World Affairs. The Church of the Seplucare is there.

The odd thing is, Muslims have many very important and significant religious sites there and I would seriously doubt them ever Nuking the land. Matter of fact, Muslims, Christians, and Jews all have very important religious sites, churches, mosques in Isreal. 3 of the worlds most well known religions are rooted in Isreal.

Imagine the Pope going to get the light for Easter and it is not there anymore. Muslims believe that Jesus was who he says he was, I read recently, but don't believe everything you read on the net.

Anyfoo, there is my two bits. njoy :0)

israel is our most reliable off shore military base...you new?

Israel, thanks mainly to US involvement, is weapon-ready enough to blow themselves off the map and take several countries with them. We bought their allegiance, yet we are not friendly enough to keep it when the funds dry up. Israel will, most likely, break ties with the US when it suits them in peaceful negotiations with their enemies while economic sanctions are forming against us.

Why Israel? Well, consider this: one of the holiest shrines in all of Islam (the Dome of the Mosque) sits atop THE holiest sites in all of Judaism-the Jewish Temple Mount. A few miles away lies the holiest city in all of Christendom-Bethlehem, birthplace of the Christ. Now, I know that this is a very intellectual place, this current dot com, so I hate to wax religious here, but maybe Israel exists again (after 2,000 years of non-existence only 35 years after Jesus' crucifixion [sic?]) because there is a God that they and the Christians believe in that wants 'em back on the planet here at (perhaps, if your belief system is so aligned) the last days. Check this guy's site out, and it may give some answers-or not. I dunno, no expert here, but after seeing polar bears die, a global tsunami, New Orlreans practically wiped off the map, two major wars in what is, for all intensive purposes, Babylon (Iraq), the ozone layer going "bye bye", etc, well, at this point, I'm ready to consider all angles.

http://www.joelrosenberg.com/ezekiel.asp

I think it's important to clear something up.

While Israel is a regional ally of the United States, I don't think Israel is any kind of military base for the U.S. They are very much a sovereign nation and manage their own affairs, albeit with financial help from public and private sources here in the States.

Why support the nation of Israel?

Pragmatically, back in the years leading up to 1948, the eventual support of Israel was a response to a well-organized Zionist political movement that prevailed in a campaign aimed at both Britain -- which occupied what was then Palestine -- and the new United Nations. Sure, the horrors of the Holocaust were an important factor, but it was also a political consideration in 1948 -- balancing one regional group against another.

Why does this support continue?

Influential Jews and Christians treasure the historical sites there and feel a closeness to the places where their culture has its roots.

The real difficulty -- and I suppose what seems to make the whole question contentious -- is the difficulty many have in criticizing the State of Israel. After all, it doesn't do everything right. Right? There's the real problem.