Clinton rejects latest Michigan delegate plan

She vetoed it just like Bush. It should be over now. She is making a fool of herself and cheating those delegates out of seats at the convention. Miss Fair Play Hillary.

Did OBAMA register for the Michigan primary?

If that is the case, what is going to happen with FL.
I did not even vote because it was not going to count any way.
I would have voted for Obama

Very good point bori. They should have taken care of this much earlier, but now it is too late. If its a big deal now why wasn't it a couple months ago? Hillary only now makes a big deal out of it because it is her only chance.

Ya' know, for me it's coming down to, can I listen to that voice for four or eight years? I wanted to like Hillary, but I don't know if I can get past that. Of course it's still better than GW. "A lot of people have died and we must find them." GW about the recent cyclone. sigh.

First, she said those votes shouldn't even count because she was percieved as the front runner. After Obama became the front-runner, she started complaining the votes of Florida and Michigan should count, despite national party rules being violated. So now, a reasonably fair solution is proposed and she rejects it because it isn't the exact number of delegates she won.

Given the fact that Obama had removed his name from the ballot, the proposed resolution would have the best for both parties in the Democratic race, and would've made people in both states feel like they were still represented by the Democratic party. However, this is a case of Hillary dividing the party even more by not letting this go.

Haven't you all had enough of a president who plays hardball at any costs instead of one who uses diplomacy?

I wonder who does her hair? Sorry, having a shallow moment.

I guess I can understand, she's desperate to survive/win. But to change the rules of the game in the middle of the game is disgusting and manipulative.

I think she was setting her expectations too high, and needs to sober up.

Her ONLY getting 55% and being the ONLY person on the ballot, says volumes, think about it.

It is soooooo greedy and unfair for her to seek the 600K votes.

I guess desperation makes you insane.

NADER 2008 j/k

right on Krag.

Hillary know she has lost, but I think that she feels that she owes it to the hundreds of thousands of people who have tirelessly wasted their time over the last 18 months. I begrudgingly respect that.
McCauliffe (sp?) suggested that the race would be over well before the convention.

Bona fortuna as a senator Hil.

As a Michigander, I think that if Michigan was to revote, we would be evenly split between Obama and Hillary, just like the rest of the country. We might favor Hillary, but I still think it would be close.

So how does Obama win the Electoral College in November. Look at 2000 and 2004. The coasts are set, the south is set. Michigan and Florida are alienated, Hillary won Ohio and Pennsylvania and he will lose 20% - 35% of her voters. He might take a a western state, but none are big enough for a win. She gets the only southern state besides Florida, being Arkansas. Come on, give me some hope, how does he do it? What is the scenario?

Some of the current red states will be turning blue, but you are right that Michigan and Florida will likely be Republican wins due to Democratic stupidity.

I will still vote Democratic, but one vote does not make a state Blue.

What red states? It won't be in the south. The western states will take more than one to win it all and McCain gets Arizona. Ohio and Florida were the biggest swing states to go red, it's going to be hard for him to get them. And he likely loses Michigan, a blue state the last two times, in the meantime, and possibly Pennsylvania too. I don't want another Republican, but I'm not seeing it, I need some help here.

The Hillary supporters have been tirelessly bashing Obama for not agreeing to any of the revote, recount strategies proposed up till now.

Now Hillary rejects a reasonable plan approved by the Michigan Democratic Party. At least the blame Obama crowd will have to shut up.

Obama 08!

Al Gore even made a comment on NPR this week stating he believes the delegates will be seated. If anyone should know that votes should be counted, it's him. I can't believe people are arguing about this simply because it is Clinton. I don't give a damn if it were Obama who won those states, PEOPLE VOTED thinking they would be counted. Obama had every opportunity to put his name on those ballots as well. However, this just proves how 'party poltics" stifles Democracy which is why I find it all such BS. All I know is, if Michigan and Florida are spit on by the Democratic party because of some arcane 'rule' taking precedence over real votes after what happened in the last two elections with votes, they deserve to lose them in November. This isn't about Obama or Clinton, this is about the people. People who took time out of their day to vote thinking it would matter.

They all agreed not to have their names on the ballots and some actually had theirs removed. The delegates should be divided in half and seated. Hillary is the one that rejected that, not Obama. Of course they should be seated but there should be no gain for either candidate from it.

The delegates should be seated in accordance with the outcome of those elections. To do it any other way is to not honor the votes of the people as they were cast. I don't give a damn about any "party" rules or what anyone "agreed" to.

but what is the validity of the outcome of those electios?

Hillary's name was practically the only one on the ballot...

both states knew the consequence of their actions.

and, like a child, if not consequenced, then the behavior will become worse and ALL primaries and caucuses will move towards the first of the year. Election bedlam.

And that is just what we need, to allow all these political dingbats more time for campaigning. *vomit*

Oh, please. You honestly believe that every single resident who voted knew the outcome? People on the whole are not poltical junkies and some don't even pay attention to politics. And even if they do, the solemn right to vote is something NO PARTY should have the right to take away regardless of when it happens. The action of voting goes beyond some stupid party rule. The fact that some Americans can't see that only validates that true Democracy is not appreciated in this country. When you cannot make a move without a party big wig telling you wha to do, you know that this country is not really free. However, it was OK for this MEDIA to start the campaign sideshow two years before the 'election.' Between the media and political parties this country is now unrecognizable from its original form. Oh my, we don't want to go up against the big party leaders when it comes to holding sway over our unalienable rights!

So? Was Clinton penalized for it? The election was still held, wasn't it? Obviously then the others could have put country and voters over party and put their names there as well. It works both ways. I don't know if Clinton did it just thinking she would get the upper hand , maybe, since she is a politician. However, people should have their votes counted in this country regardless of any party rules. This is very reminiscent of Florida in 2000 when Katherine Harris bent those "rules" to favor Bush. Some things go beyond "rules" laid down by men.

In a Democracy we make rules so we don't have chaos, Hillary agreed to the rules but failed to remove her name. She shouldn't profit from breaking the rules. Cheaters should never prosper from cheating.

And people voting a month before they usually would is 'making chaos?' Don't even try it. My opinion stands. COUNT THE VOTES. And I hope you understand the full weight of your statement that in a Democracy rules are made to avoid chaos should Bush impose martial law on this country before November after attacking Iran... After all, it will only be the Democratic thing to do to avoid chaos, no? Just like The Patriot Act? Laws are one thing. These are flimsy 'party' rules designed to give certain people an upperhand in the nominating process. Hardly something that would bring 'chaos' upon this country to be changed once in a while. I suspect you are looking at this from a biased point of view because you are an Obama supporter. I also suspect if the tables were turned you would be defending Obama if his name were the only one on those ballots. Again, this is not about Clinton or Obama.

just leave her alone MM, just leave her alone, there is no changing her mind... (nor opening her eyes)

let it go

:)

Word, JanforGore.

The votes of every primary voter should count without regard for manipulations by the Democratic Party bigwigs.

Obama could and should have kept his name on the ballot, unless he thinks the voters of Michigan and Florida don't count.

This could have been decided months ago when James Carville told the Obama campaign live on CNN, there were Democratic funders ready to bankroll a re-vote for the primary in Michican and Florida and all Obama needed to do was agree.

Obama stonewalled, and months later, there is no agreement, and the democratic primary voters of Michigan and Florida remain disenfranchised.

Obama is no different from other politicians. He takes advantage of irrational party rules to void the votes of over 2 million Americans, and refused to debate his opponent before Indianna, despite the voters wishes.

Hillary Clinton is right to insist that, unless there is a re-vote, the votes of Michigan and Florida should be counted as they were cast.

If Obama respected the voters of Michigan and Florida, he would have made sure his name was on the democratic primary candidate list. But he didn't. He should show he is above petty political rules and manipulations, and accept that the voters of these two important states chose Hillary Clinton.

But, maybe he's afraid that counting Michigan and Florida votes as they were cast and counted would reveal to people just how slim his delegate lead is, and why he would be a long-shot, at best, to win the General Election against a war hero and P.O.W. with decades of public service in the Senate.

If the Dems put another inexperienced, unvetted candidate forth for president, the Republicans will win.

Opening my eyes? My eyes are WIDE open, dear.

I am sure they are.

moving on...

You all seem to be forgetting one thing. Not counting those votes only means that the party doesnt have a true and acurate picture of where those peoples heads are at before going into the national election. Their votes WILL count in November. So if we dont look at them now, we will not know which one of them has the better chance when it really counts. And while you are all thinking that Hillary was so mean to him, wait and see what the Republicans are going to do!

In 2012, or 2016, they should really just run all the primaries on the same day.

Also, the Michigan/Florida votes don't count because, even going into the voting process, they were told that they didn't count. There's plenty of people in either state who didn't vote because of that. And how about the 44% of the votes that went to "Nobody"? How is nobody doing in this race right now?

starting to smell like sour grapes.
and old sour grapes at that.

screw florida and michigan. (do you really believe that this IS as democracy any longer) MM and Jade are right. parameters and boundaries exist for a reason: social contract theory. and though, Mrs Jan, it may not lead to immediate chaos (might be an overstated word too), it is the beginning of a slippery slope that could further damage our F'd up elections system.

What a coward.
She thinks she won a race fair and square that wasn't even a race.

Another Obama supporter heard from who cannot see the higher ideal involved here. Believing in DEMOCRACY is not sour grapes. It is obvious some will not get that, which is probably why it was so easy for them to take it from us. This goes beyond them. And it would be a Democracy if we FOUGHT FOR IT. But what am I saying? They stole an entire presidential election in 2000 because they didn't count votes and we sat. And now you say "screw Florida and Michigan? Democrats then deserve to lose them.

and again, their votes WILL count in the general election! What does any of this matter about the rules!? Of course, it's the rules, they knew ahead of time, blah blah blah. But the truth that still hasnt changed is, even if you dont count them now, they will count in the general election so you are only getting an inaccurate picture of what will happen then! And while Hillary had to worry about how it would look or what people will think if she says certain things, the Republicans wont. She had to walk on egg shells, but that is not going to continue once this is all over. The republicans havent even begun to fight yet. They have been just sitting back waiting. If you think they are going to still continue this love fest they have been pretending to have for Obama I got a bridge I think you want to buy.

I don't understand the conflict here. I'm from Florida and didn't vote, because I was informed that we jumped the gun and have been eliminated from the game. There were rules, they were broken, and these are the consequences. Why should the rules be bent because Hillary, who also didn't follow the rules by keeping her name on the ballot, needs the skewed votes to even stay in this?
So they come up with a solution, but still, it's not enough. She wants all the candy given to her when no one else was in the room. Please, she looks desperate and we all know what's fair. A compromise is the only way to get through this. Take it or leave it. I can guarantee that this won't happen again for a long time.

Isn't this getting a little embarrassing for her now?

Personally I think it is the voters themselves that havent been treated fairly because they had no vote in the decision that their state made to move the primaries up so they are the ones that are being cheated out of their vote. They are the ones that didnt break the rules. And the most fair thing to do for THEM would have been a re-vote which Obama rejected. To now go back and say "lets just split it up and call it even" isnt fair to anyone concerned and I dont blame anyone for rejecting that. What if Obama would have won by a landslide and half of his votes are given to her? And it still wouldnt give a very accurate picture of what will happen in November. So I guess the most important question is, what is the most important thing to you, Obama winning the primary, or a Democrat winning the general election?

Of course this is sour grapes. The Clinton supporters (both those who admit it and those who don’t) and the Obama haters are upset that things didn’t go their way. And that is understandable. But the fact is that this is going exactly as planned with one minor difference. Michigan and Florida were always going to be seated by the eventual nominee AFTER the race is over (which it pretty much is). The votes were always going to be counted. The only difference is that the person making the magnanimous gesture of removing the sanctions is now going to be Senator Obama instead of Senator Clinton. Sorry it didn’t work out for you. But that’s the way it is. So all your political posturing, while enjoyable for you I’m sure, really doesn’t mean much…since the votes are going to be counted. They broke the rules and their punishment will end up being twofold, one their states didn’t get the massive influx of spending associated with a primary. And two, their votes, while counting in the end, will only come into play after the nominee has been decided. Those two things should go a long way to preventing the states from disregarding the rules (agreed upon by the DNC and ALL of the candidates including Senator Clinton) in future elections.

As to Jan’s claim that if the tables were turned Obama supporters would be demanding a recount. Since that didn’t happen there’s no real way to tell, but I suspect some would. But here’s a question that doesn’t require imagining some fantasy that didn’t happen. There are a lot of Clinton supporters (again some still in the closet) raging on this site about how it violates the core principles of Democracy and it’s an affront to everything we hold dear. But where was this high-minded rhetoric when Senator Clinton agreed to the DNC rules back in September? Why did it take Senator Clinton losing the nomination for you to suddenly rush to the defense of the voters in Michigan and Florida? Of course I expect were going to hear about how some of you always disagreed with the DNC and how you never thought this was the right course of action. And maybe that’s true…maybe it’s revisionist history. But I’d be willing to bet they didn’t take Senator Clinton to task for “spitting on the voters of Michigan and Florida”. Hmmm…I wonder why that was?

The DNC offered to pay for a re-vote in both Michigan and Florida. Both states said no. Blame the states. (And I am from that great state of Michigan.)

Props Krag.

This is kindergarten SOUR GRAPES. Hillary has no one to blame for this situation than herself and her supporters need to recognize this. Take a look at your candidate--lying and cheating to get the results she wants. Is that how you want your president to act when things don't go her way?

The nomination is Obama's. Deal with it.

JanforGore: "Opening my eyes? My eyes are WIDE open, dear."

If that is true, why is it that you only see what Hillary tells you to see?

I cant help but notice that alot of you Obama supposrters are real good at all the ignorant Hillary comments but not so good at answering a single question. Again, So I guess the most important question is, what is the most important thing to you, Obama winning the primary, or a Democrat winning the general election?

Why haven't you included Hillary in this question? At this point, Obama is the presumptive winner. What is Hillary's agenda for fighting a lost cause? At the rate she's going, we'll neither have Obama or democrat in the White House. The most important thing to me, is having a President I can believe in again...and it aint Hillary and it's certainly not McCain.

Because I was speaking to the Obama supporters. Which one is more important? It's a simple question.

How sad is it that we have a supposed leader advocating that the only democratic solution is the one in which her name is the only one on the ballot?...

The reason I asked this question is because it is the question that we are all supposed to be asking ourselves right now! That is what the primaries are all about. You guys have gotten so caught up in the "competition" that you have lost sight of what it is all about.
You guys have been given a forum that no other generation before you has had. You have been given a voice by this web site and most of you are wasting your voice on Hillary bashing instead of singing the praises of the man that you supposedly want the world to think is so great! Everytime I have asked all of you for information, and given you the opportunity to tell everyone WHY he is the best, all I have recieved is insults instead. I have been called a liar and a hater and a racist, all because I have dared to ask questions about the man that you all think is the best choice. I asked those questions so that I could make the best INFORMED choice when I went to the Indiana primary. Isnt it funny that none of you even know if I am black or white but you have accused me of not wanting him to win because he is black? You are harming every black child in this country every time you say that. You are telling that child that nothing else matters if they are black. That to me is so wrong. Stop believing that!