'Respect atheists', says Cardinal
We are all in this together!
-
-
-
-
- gunnini
- 8 days ago
-
I think he has a little boy under his skirt...
-
-
-
-
- lifterbaron
- 8 days ago
-
-
...and agnostics
-
-
-
-
- jade_azul16
- 8 days ago
-
-
stop mission work, says atheist.
-
-
-
-
- chet_arthur
- 8 days ago
-
-
bravo chet_arthur!
-
-
-
-
- blackdaylight
- 8 days ago
-
-
DO OR DONT BELEIVE???
wht does it matter we shouldn't be judged by our beleifs!!! im an athiest and that doesnt mean im going to lead a sinful and awful life.... all religions are the same, its realli annoying how everyone is being judged for what they beleive in !¬¬!!!!!!-
-
-
-
- global_problems
- 8 days ago
-
-
It will always be a problem until people realise that God loves everyone really..its only the fact that you have to have an unseen experience of the presence of god..that stops people from being moved by the energies that are translated through each individual.Whether there is a belief or not can only be viewed by the fineness of your understanding of the world and its wonders..open minds allow fresh thoughts to appear..closed minds imprison the soul..
-
Great points global, and mcwally. It seems we assume that certain beliefs predispose morality, and we assume God is separate and therefore we are all separate too.
In response to the article,
Hitler and stalin may be considered examples of secular socities. The mistakes of reason alone but these people wherent reasonable. Theres nothing reasonable about killing masses of innocent poeple. Hitler considered himself a christian.
These people where un-sane not reasonable. Richard paul would probably classify them as egocentric thinkers not rational thinkers. Because they where good at thinking but pursued selfish ends instead of fairly considering others.
I like the cardinals idea of the mystery of God and bringing up how anti religous people can be, myself included.
Does any one know how to respond to his strawman defense?
It just seems like he says well thats not my God that you are talking about in response to dawkins imaginary friend analogy.-
-
-
-
- DivinePerspective
- 8 days ago
-
-
yes i agree...
you know think people wuld beleive in god if they saw him, but shuldnt we the right to male our own decisions not "follow the rules of god!!" why cn we not learn from our own mistakes and not go to "hell" for them. its silly.
if you have sex with more than one person before your mrried... ITS A SIN! YOUR GOING TO HELL!!! why cant we just beleive in god and know that he isnt telling us what to do like the rest of the world is.. e.g media... society
-
-
-
-
- global_problems
- 8 days ago
-
-
Without sounding too militant, religion is a fervent problem in today's society. I'm not talking about the wishy-washy pantheism/agnosticism that seems to be more and more popular, but the doctrinal religion. The Catholic church has infused their poisonous dogma into the developing world for centuries. It has proved to be an effective source of disease, poverty, and oppression, and has seldom alleviated problems. I have no problem with my next door neighbor going to church, so I don't think I'm anti-RELIGIOUS. Rather anti-subjugation. It seems that wherever a uniform concept of God goes, aristocracy and elitism soon follow. People need to realize that any faith is as credible as the next, because they are all based on belief. I differ with Dawkins on this matter. Religion does not need evidence because it is fundamentally unscientific, so the convention of the scientific method is arbitrary. This doesn't mean that religion is above science, in fact, the opposite. Since many religions (if not all) oppose the physical world in favor of the transcendental, metaphysical dreamland. I think that this ultimately discredits religion, being one of the mindset that physical = possible.
-
People tend to equate God and religion, as if one can't live without the other. My issue isn't with people who believe in God, it is with those who've made it their mission to tell me who God is, as if they've met him somewhere. I know the Bible better than most. Raised as an SDA, we were encouraged to actually read the Bible, study it and know what the hell we actually believed in. The more I read it, the more I realized, all these people were telling me who they thought God was. He or She, made absolutely no sense to me. I would have to seek him/her or it out for myself, without the biases of the Bible, or my religion. I'm still lookin'.
-
It's interesting to hear a cardinal claim that the presence of a God is not a "fact in the world." I'm from TX and know a lot of people of who would ignorantly argue that to the death.
-
I was agreeing with a lot of what the Cardinal was saying until he tried to tie the idea of having a rational, secular society with the hellholes made by Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the like. I know that Hitler has already been touched upon by one of the responders, so I'll be quick with him. He did believe himself to be a Christian. It was his own brand of Christianity (Positive Christianity), but he was still a Christian. He had some occultish leanings as well, dabbling in Nordic runes and other such things. Now onto Stalin, Pol Pot, and every other communist dictator: They did not kill the religious and others because their atheism told them to do so; they did those atrocious and deplorable acts for other reasons, such as their strict and militant interpretation of communism and personal psychological problems. They believed that religion needed to go by the wayside by any means necessary, including persecution and murder. Stalin also had typical clinical paranoia, which greatly hindered his ability to rationally perceive reality. So yeah, using that argument was not the Cardinal's best choice.
-
To assume that the catholics are the worst seems folly. Although there history points to devestation and the destruction of cultures and history, i think it is the "Evangalists" that are the increasing disease in our government and society. They pose with a face of tolerance yet speak with a voice of hate. How could they be "christians" if they have no love. Even the Holy Bible states in proverbs that a man could have faith but without love he is nothing...
-
-
-
-
- Pound_of_Flesh
- 7 days ago
-
-
It's an improvement over "Burn them at the stake".
-
lol enraptor... my thoughts exactly... how Christian of him to be accepting of others... about time they started actually following that specific belief
-
I am 100% sure God exists, not because of faith alone but because of experience... now what? Where do you go from there?
-
-
-
-
- jdchristianson
- 7 days ago
-
-
I wouldn't go around saying "Respect Hitler," so this statement is obviously not foolproof. Check out the newest, hard to find movie called "Expelled" with Ben Stein. Hitler and those scientists with him were all strictly Darwinians. And no way is Hitler anything related to Christ.
-
-
-
-
- jdchristianson
- 7 days ago
-
-
The point is that tolerance seems to be in short supply these days.
The problems is the ethnocentric belief that your point of view is the only correct one that both atheists and the mythic stage of religious dogma is at.
Apparently that cardinal is trying to encourage a more worldcentric attitude to respect the right of everyone to have their own beliefs.
-
#to jdchristianson#
what about the christian leaders who ordered mass murders. Like Queen Isabella of Spain. Or the Popes who ordered the distruction of countless cultures.....
I think your "hitler" statment is about equall to mine.-
-
-
-
- Pound_of_Flesh
- 7 days ago
-
-
What's interesting about the Cardinal's statements is that in Europe, religion is far less prominent in the day to day life of most people. This strikes me as a move to reconcile the Catholic Church with a dwindling population of adherents.
I doubt we'd ever hear an American Cardinal make such a statement...-
-
-
-
- Justin_Gunn
- 7 days ago
-
-
I have always thought organized religion is a foundation for hate and bigotry. This is a step in the right direction to help all coexist
-
-
-
-
- PhilipBlaine
- 7 days ago
-
-
Respect is an importan part of love, and love is what most religions say they are about. Nice to hear at least on "Christian" practicing what he preaches.
-
i hope i see something someday that makes me believe in god.
"ya hear that buddy? whenever you're ready, i'm waiting for the sign!"-
-
-
-
- innocent_criminal
- 7 days ago
-
-
Hmm. Next thing I know atheists will be only the second most hated minority in the US. Probably not.
-
-
-
-
- Dmitri_Molotov
- 7 days ago
-
-
Thanks Cardinal, but no thanks. I think I can deal without your respect. It is incredible that he said, “regard those without faith with deep esteem” and the next minute he turns around and says that societies based on reason alone lead to “terror and oppression“ - mentioning Hitler and Stalin. Good one Cardinal, I thought you really liked us. We should be treated with respect because our impaired morality might cause another Holocaust. Wait, didn’t anyone tell Cardinal that Hitler was Catholic? He actually went to Catholic school. Yet atheists are blamed for Hitler’s actions.
Let’s talk about societies full of faith. Take Puritans for example, how many witches were hanged? Let me give you a hint, it rhymes with hero. What about your own faith, catholicism? How many innocent lives were taken by the Catholic Church over the past several centuries? I think you know the answer.
Bravo Cardinal! You got one thing right God is “not a fact in the world”. It will never be one unlike evolution, it’s a fact. Stop pretending like you cannot see the facts. Open your eyes and look at them, stop wasting your life on an imaginary friend. Such a waste of time.
Lastly, I think you ask believers to respect atheists because you want respect in return. Let me tell you one thing, you won’t get respect from us. You do not deserve a drop of our respect. Showing you respect will lower us to your level, a level of unreason and insurmountable amount of ignorance.
Reason and God don’t go along, it’s like trying to mix water and oil. Good luck with that one Cardinal.
-
What we need to remember is that there is no wrong or right answer, but at some point we have to believe something. Whether it's in "God" or the great nothing, most people lean towards believing in something-- it's human nature. The problem arises when we forget we do not "know". We may have had the most spiritual experience, or have the hardest data, but when it comes to religion, there is no knowing.There are so many people on this earth believing and "knowing" that the only thing we CAN do is accept. Too bad that is often the hardest thing to do.
-
-
-
-
- ZombieLovelie
- 7 days ago
-
-
Here is an example of a cardinal leading by example.
Atheists and Gnostics have supplied the world with healthy criticism and advancement in Science. It is right for the Cardinal to say that we should respect them.
Since I am a Gnostic, I have a lot of respect for my self. -
Thank you mr. cardinal for giving me permission to respect others!---Gimme a break.
-
im athiest,,, does that mean im bad aswel???
what on earth is wrong with everyone, wether you beleive in god or dont what does it realli matter... we shuld be trying to solve more serious problems like pollution, or eduction!!!
think for yourselfs people!!!-
-
-
-
- global_problems
- 6 days ago
-
-
Jubal - Do you mean Agnostic? Gnostic is quite the contrary.
People raise a lot of good points about this. It's good that this cardinal is accepting, yes. Furthermore, no religious person should be ostracized for their beliefs, unless they effect others adversely. The more zealous and bigoted believers are the ones I have issue with. Mildly religious individuals perpetuate religion, but make no other imposition on me. So I have no need to "convert" any religious individuals, rather, I take issue with their beliefs, and wish to challenge them. The objection of this cardinal to a rationalist, objectivist society is valid. These societies always lend themselves to utilitarianism and social Darwinism. What he does not understand is that few people advocate this extreme. What many want is a SECULAR society. This does not mean the same thing. Irreligion allows for greater advancement with less inhibition. This is fact, not opinion; it is apparent from the history of religious subjugation of science, that faith breeds conservativism. A secular society with consideration for the empirical, and practical, with a government not blinded by religious intolerance, and massive bias would be my absolute dream. Due to misconceptions such as this man's, it looks unlikely. -
No I am Gnostic as in Gnostic Christian.
The Gnostic group that I follow believe that the God of the old Testament, Jehovah, is not the heavenly father that Jesus talked about in his earthly ministry.
We do not actively proselytize people, instead we wait for the Holy Spirit to call on the person and then we make ourselves available to them if that be God's will revealed. The person comes to us or coincidentally finds one of us when the time is right.
Realizing that the God you thought you were serving is not the true god can be quite unsettling to a Christian. For them it is as if they find out they had been tricked into serving Satan.
The God of the old Testament is a tyrannical schizophrenic despot, totally different from the Loving God who "judges no man" according to Jesus.
So to answer your question, I am referring to Gnostic and not agnostic. -
I believe in a other power and call it God due to the fact that I hate saying "other power". I am not sure though wether or not he is infact a higher power. I have my experiences and beliefs but I put the afterlife aside and tend to the life now when I need to. We need to love each other no matter our beliefs or doctrine. That quote from the Cardinal can only bring good. Respect is needed every where if we expect to move past our childish gabbing on what matters only on a personal level.
-
-
-
-
- Pound_of_Flesh
- 3 days ago
-
keep browsing
this space intentionally left blank
