Speaking of Gay Marriage

Those are good news; progressive thinking takes time to become reality, but any step forward is cause for celebration.

it is against the constitution to ban gay marriage. i am so happy for all those who can finally tie the knot with the one they love. CONGRATS!!!!

Awesome. Justice prevails and I am proud of California.

good move, CA! now don't let the Schwartzennator get away with opposing it! vote AGAINST any proposition or amendment to reverse this!

if the "right" opposes it, ask for civil unions to be legalized between any two people who want to be joined, and that all legal rights commonly included in "marriage" be accorded them.

if the "right" doesn't want to sanction religious ceremonies joining gays together, so be it, but their desires should NOT be allowed to also govern ANY two people who wish to wed under any other circumstances.

sort of a "separation of church and state" if you play it right...

Yay, CA!

I still don't understand what rights the opponents are trying to protect? The rights of family and marriage? One man and one woman can already be married?! This new law is not taking away those rights, just extended it to include ALL individuals!

@NicoleMarie... don't look for logic there... they see it as a threat to "conventional marriage" as described by their pastors and priests, and usually is related to some kind of fear of homosexuality which is completely unrelated to logic or reason.

but once those kinds of cancerous ideas infest enough minds, they tend to replicate prolifically, sorry to say.

it's totally emotional [and religious] because there aren't any facts to back up their assertions.

but they continue to assert. just keep arguing with them... it's a great sport, lots of practice for debating classes, and won't change their minds at all.

When I had first heard about this I felt like it wasn't really happening.It was as if I were in some sort of dream and then I woke up and discovered that my dream had actually come true.Before I was in such disbelief that it hadn't even registered to me that this was real.It is now for the first time in years that I feel genuinely happy.Justice and freedom are finally making a debut in modern American politics.

Gavin Newsom confessed to an affair with the wife of his reelection campaign manager.

He could not live up to his own marriage vows and betrayed his own friend. He is a real predator. He should have resigned in shame.

I am not surprised, he is standing up there in the video for counterfeit marriage.

As the family goes.... so goes the nation

It is not as California goes... so goes the nation...

Yes. This is exactly what the Dems need in an election year. 4% of the population managed to make Bush president in 2004. Because they and their sexual desire are so damn important.

I hope this decision finally puts an end to this nonsense so we can focus on things that actually matter. But I don't hold my breath. Gays will make themselves the issue over and over again.

The people of California voted and passed a law to ban gay marriage. Whether you are for or against gay marriage, the process that occurred here was incorrect since the court overstepped its role which is to interpret law, not make it. The court in essence violated the separation of powers that our government is founded upon (Legislative, Executive, Judicial).

Once again, California is lightyears ahead of most of the US. I ask you again: Why do we need the USA? We don't. We've been occupied for 162 years.

They DID interpret the law! They looked at their constitution and felt that the withholding marriage from gays was unconstitutional! Thats how this was done... THEY RULED THE CURRENT LAW WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! and it is .... Look, I respect your opinion and the other conservatives who posted here....
I just hope that you understand what I am saying;
GLBT americans are not trying to MAKE themselves an issue.... we just want our rights.
I understand it's an unhill fight and apologize that we have to step on your toes, but could you imagine being sooo in love with someone and being with them for YEARS and not being able to make it legally official? Marriage has a lot of benefits, I would like to know my future significant other could become my wife and, if I die first, I want to know that she can and will be taken care of as she should. Thats all.
I don't feel it's a choice that I like women,.... it's not your choice to like the opposite sex. Please, conservatives, understand this; we respect your rights to your faith and beliefs, but outside of those religious arguments... is there really a logical reason we should not be able to marry? It just hurts that I may not be able to give my future wife all I feel she deserves because the majority doesn't feel the minority matters or should have the same rights.

EbahDyke-

I appreciate your sincerity. All the concerns you mentioned are solvable through civil unions like they have in New Jersey.

Unions of husband and wife called marriage for 2000 years and more. are uniquely necessary because they make new life and connect these children to their own mother and father. It is crucial to the society well being

The agenda being gay marriage is to destroy gender and open the door to whatever people feel there "born" desires are.

I do not have anything against someone saying they have same gender attraction but I resent when under the disguise of equality they are willing to sacrifce future generations of children that need to grow up with their own father and a mother by reducing the value of marriage to a tax or inheritance benefit.

The value of Marriage goes down in countries that have "gay marriages."

I think many gays have a lot of anger against, their father or mother and God too (probably for good reasons). It does not mean they should take it on everybody else and destroy the insitution of the natural family.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from

Hell yeah. It's about equality. All the best to the new married couples.

I must confess I'm a little nervous about anti-gay knuckleheads turning out in hordes at the polls to vote for John Sidney McInsane - but let's make sure we get the intelligent vote out as well.

Knock 'em out, CA! :)

@soleil10..... first, "marriage" as we now practice it, socially and legally, isn't a 2000-year old thing... maybe 300, maybe 500.

the glbt community is asking for equal treatment under the law, and i think it's pretty stupid for things like social security rights, inheritance and many other freedoms to be at the whim of state legislatures in the USA. for civil unions to be legal in one state and not portable to another state is stupid.

and trust me... the glbt community does not "recruit," and if they did, you would not be in any danger of being "recruited." the "value of marriage" that you speak of is not measured anywhere; there are no objective yard [or meter-] sticks anywhere but in your mind.

to deny any couple from "marrying" and enjoying all of the civil protections and rights that heterosexual "married couples" enjoy is actually fairly bigoted thinking. the data are against you, too. no more nor fewer gay pairings end in divorce, suicide or "screwed up kids" than straight ones.

and if you think so, i'd bet you "learned those facts" from a religious "leader" in your community and NEVER in your life have spent a few hours, let alone longer, discussing the issues face-to-face with a member of the glbt community.

if you find any who suggest that "it's a lifestyle choice" [like living in the country instead of the 'burbs",] you're not talking to a real gay person, but a propagandist for some religious group.

ps....
http://www.plusaf.com/soapbox/gaymarriage.htm

AND http://www.unclejayexplains.com/ for May 29th...

Plusaf-

I do not think you were answering my comment. You were talking to yourself. May be it made you feel better

Next time if you want to respond to a comment, do not talk above people heads. if it not for their benefit, it is a waste of their time.

Also if you have issue with any religion, dont dump tired stereotypes on someone you do not even know while accusing them of bigotery at the same time

Soleil10-
I am glad we can discuss this like adults. I understand and agree that children need men and woman playing key roles in their lives, however, there are no statistics that say the children adopted or born (in a number of different ways) to gay couples are damaged or otherwise negatively effected. For all those interested, here is a short article reiterating what I just stated and backing it up with more scientific fact:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6670-lesbian-coup...

I am totally sensitive to you wanted to defend something that so obviously close to your heart, and I want to remind everyone that 'marriage' is a 'civil union', so it doesn't matter what its called, however, civil unions are not recognized in every state,... if you are unionized in Vermont, it probably won't follow you to any other state....
For more information on the differences between the offered "civil unions" and "marriage", I encourage you to take a look and (hopefully) a read (or at least a good skim) of this article. Only so I don't end up committing plagorism... LOL.
http://www.hrc.org/issues/5517.htm
It's just explaining better than I ever could why we are fighting for "marriage" over "civil unions" better than I could and more thoroughly than myself. They are more references here too.
Thank you for your time and I hope this helps you understand more.

What's up with some people are saying that domestic relationships are not the same as marriages??? Well I want to say that ALL marriages ARE domestic relationships!!! People need to pay attention to their households and their own problems and give these people who walk to a different drum than their ownthe same rights that they have and deserve if they are in a "conventional domestic marriage"...oh, wait...I think I like that...a domestic marriage...except, I hate doing the dishes. I wonder if they do prenuptial saying a person does not' have to do dishes???
Anywayzzzz....What all this boils down to is equal rights for people who love each other, are in committed domestic relationships and deserve to have the same rights as other citizens in domestic relationships aka "marriages". They deserve the same rights to have insurance benefits, tax credits, etc. for their life partners. It's is only fair and right.
I am a 51 year old heterosexual nurse with grown heterosexual children and 2 grandsons, whom I love deeply. If one of them came to me and told me he was in deeply in love wanted to marry and that person turned out to be a man....if I saw that my grandson was happy and this other man was a good person with goals, morals and loved my grandson back...I would give my full blessing with much love to go with it. I hope my grandsons to have good moral and qualities and hope whoever they choose to be with in life is a person with the same qualities who will make them happy. Right now I have to say I am more concerned with keeping them out of the war, anyway!
Also, I have had many had gay friends & gay couples over the years who have raised wonderful children, are marvelous co-workers and who are good citizens with stronger basic morals than some heterosexual couples i know.
I sat a cried when I saw the couples in Mass getting married....I could feel their happiness right through my TV screen...and it wasn't virtual...it was real life love of one human returned by the other. Congratulations to them all!! May you all be blissfully happy in life!!!
Hurray for the Republic of California!
Signed,
Cherish Your Civil Liberties!

Finally! You know, we will go to the polls here in California, and we will vote FOR same-sex marriage. I have no doubt.

Is this country going insane, Gay marriage, are you kidding me, what's next incest is OK. to all the people who are gay, let me fill you in on a little secret, WE DON'T CARE, you don't see heterosexual people having a parade to say hey I am a man and I love women, or the other way around, understand this, what you do in your bedroom is your personal choice and the rest of the world doesn't give a shit, your own TV station, this country has gone a bit too far with this whole freedom of speech thing, come on people, hell now a days you can't tell who's who anymore. the bottom line is marriage is between a man and a woman, just because you are gay it doesn't give you special rights, and to all gay men, just because you are gay it doesn't mean you have to act more feminine than a woman, so go do your own thing and stop trying to shove it in our faces, WE DON'T CARE.

One more thing everyone keeps going back to, this is what's written in the constitution, wake up idiot, when the Constitution was written we did not have all these issues, so maybe we should revise it a little.

I will be so sad if it gets overturned.

Wolverine,
I don't care that you are straight either. You SHOULD have a parade, though! That be awesome! LOL!
Also, we aren't asking for special rights, we are asking for the same right you have to marry or not to marry. I don't think our sexuality should be in your face either, and if you feel that way, I'm sorry.... Our intentions are good, though, hopefully you'll find something in that.
Also, the feminine 'acting' gay men.... everyone is different, gay or straight, there people that are more 'feminine' and more 'masculine'... it has nothing to do with the set of genitalia in your pants but everything to do with your hormonal make up, your personality and the environment you grew up in.... Nature AND nurture. Every guy isn't going to be like you, every girl isn;t going to be like your mother or sister or cousin. They aren't choosing to act like that and they aren;t all like that.... just so you know.
I hope this helps, your entry seemed frustrated and maybe even angry... sometimes that comes from misunderstanding.If thats so, I hope you understand better now.

dear Kate.

Californians voted already on this issue.

4.6 millions (62%) of the voters re-confirmed that marriage is between a man and a woman.

These judges 4 against 3 decided that was no good.

Now all these peoples are considered racists and bigots.

Actually one judge, one person made that decision/

How can people trust this democracy ever again ?

The congress has an 18% approval rating, the president 29 %.

Obama on his website was for civil unions 3 months ago and for marriage between a man and a woman.

Now he has changed his position and is OK with same sex marriage

I will not trust him ever again.

If he is elected. I can guarantee that within 2 years, we will see OBAMINATION everywhere.

Hello Crimson Thoughts, just to let you know I am not an angry person, and i know what you are saying but that does not change the fact that marriage is between a man and a woman. end of story.

Some people are in love with their pets, I'm sure they would like to get married also, and isn't this more about all the benefits that come out of being a married couple. WHATEVER ....

Dear Ebah-

I will respond to your comment in 2 or 3 parts

Civil unions can be federal no problem

Marriage is a unique civil union that is in a different class by itself, legaly and culturally. I will explain it later

For the first study you gave the link to. I am sorry to say but just the news article reveals its agenda . It is so grossly prejudiced.

It makes this big conclusion that teeenagers raised by same sex lesbians show no difference in being well adjusted from those raised by heterosexual couples.

Later on in the article it says that the study is based on 44 teenagers out of 12000 and then later if you read carefully, it says that those teenagers were adopted in both cases.

I am sorry but it is so dishonest.

If the title was: Comparative study of 44 adopted children by Lesbians and heterosexual couples... etc...etc....I would read further.

I hope this is not what you call statistics.

why vote? people of ca. voted already.give em all blood tests 1st.

EbahDyke,

re: "I respect your opinion and the other conservatives who posted here....
I just hope that you understand what I am saying;"

Because I expressed comment about the court overturning a law voted in by they majority population, you therefore assume I am conservative. Due to your own emotional rant, you ignore my point that the majority people's voice didn't seem to matter, which is what my comment was about.

Get off your anti-conservative rant and focus on the point.

Besides, the Supreme Court didn't grant gay/lesbian Californians anything other than another term to use.

After all, California already has extensive domestic partnership laws enacted to ensure equal treatment for same-sex couples.

The argument that in CA this ruling gave CA same-sex relationship citizens so much more in rights that had previously been discrimination is nonsense.

... nice attempt to make it seem to those who don't know better that GLBTs have been discriminated against in CA until this...

Soliel10,
First, right now unions aren't and neither is gay marriage. I would go for calling it either if they offered the same benefits.

Hopefully these articles will redeem me, they contain nothing that involves statistics, but the source is much better.
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/p...
http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abs...
I was trying to find more about the Dutch study I found here, it's interesting anyway, aside from the site I found it on.
http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2007/09/21/1


@unobjectivity_sucks
I AM SOOO SORRY for every assuming anything and I hope you accept my heartfelt apology for being that stupid.

Also, I didn't know about the domestic partnership arrangement out in CA, or atleast not to the extent you seem to.
I never thought that CA discriminated against the GLBT community, I was just happy about the ruling because I believe it is unconstitutional.
I understand the anger and frustration you must feel though,... feeling ignored is never good... but I don't feel the court over stepped their bounds, they determined the ban to be unconstitutional. Their job is to interpret the law.
However, I guess that doesn't mean they had to instate gay marriage necassarily.

I again apologize for assuming anything about you.
Unfortunately, this is one of those issues I am so excited about, I end up in a mental frenzy when people appear to be speaking out against it.... usually I try to keep my mouth shut, but this a forum, so I proceed to share.

Solil10

Children do need a stable family, but the sanctity of the marriage between a man and woman and having a stable family do not correlate very strongly. Divorce, abuse, neglect, and "unplanned" births happen with men and women in marriage which can cause the child to not end up with their natural parents or to be without a stable family life. Now, I am not saying that the first three cannot occur in a same sex marriage, but I feel that it is unfair to keep saying that gay marriage is wrong based on your argument when other, more important issues, are more paramount to the stability of the family such as those listed above. Brittany Spears was not a lesbian, but because she is heterosexual she got to have a 56 hour marriage and now has two children with a different man to whom she is divorced.

Same sex couples that adopt make an intentional decision together to raise a child and must go through social services to do so. Any man and woman can have intercourse and conceive a child, but I doubt you can say you have never met a heterosexual person you hoped would never procreate!

Achromatic- Since 1970, there has been 42 millions divorces shattering the lifes of 40 millions children. Divorce is now accepted as OK

26% of women between 14-19 years old have STDs. What is the big deal. Soon we will have national helth care

We have already 991.000 aids cases. Who really care

Abortions are also over 40 millions. do not worry those were not human beings. There is no trce

At one time chewing gums was a problem in High School and college now it is drugs, killings, and drinking. Well they are once they are over 18, what can I do

The list is endless. and endless....

Now you are saying gays married couples can pick up on some of of this mess so that is OK.too

Can you measure how much more additional mess , these gays marriages will add over the next 50 years in so many ways..

During the the last 40 years we have seen the desintegration of the family.

As the family goes... so the nation

Two wrongs do not make a right.

When I first heard of this, I though, "well, cool." It's never been a big issue for me. Never thought I'd want it. But now that I have someone with whom I'd want to make this solemn step, & I realized that I could get "married, like a... *real* person." I never realized that I had this internalized homophobia, never thought of myself as a real person, just accepted that I was a second-class citizen. I was floored, rocked to my core. While I can never know what it is like, but this may be what black people felt like when they (among many others things) first got to "sit in the front of the bus." You're not going to take that away from me.

Firstly, "Domestic Partnership" or "Civil Unions" as offered in CA are NOT the same as marriage, for many reasons, mainly for the fact that recognition is OPTIONAL: corporations/etc. don't have to offer benefits. My partner of 6 years cannot offer me ANY spousal benefits because his company (a School District) does not recognize this as a relationship. You couldn't get away with this if it were a "Marriage." This is called legal discrimination. End of argument for Civil Unions. NOT THE SAME.

It IS all about control. This is just another form of control and another example of the irrelevancy of "The Church" in today's world and their fear of losing ever more control over people's lives. If they can't tell people how to live... well what use are they? GET *YOUR* BIBLE OUT OF OUR LAWS separation of church and state, remember? We don't and should never make laws based on religious propaganda. It always amazes me when bible-thumpers say ridiculous things like "marriage for 2000 years" read the bible, learn your own history. In it: polygamy, widows *had* to marry brothers of dead husbands, barren women aren't *real* women and it's the *duty* of the husband to "get" a child using a "hand maiden," no divorce ever. The list goes on. Would you rather we had Sharia law? Law based on religious dogma?

Plus, what is wrong with your mind that "equal protection" = incest or bestiality... is that the same in your eyes? What's wrong with you?

If you want to protect marriage, ban divorce. Study after study has shown that 1) easily accessible divorce has a deleterious effect on marriage, 2) having civil unions as an alternative to marriage (eg UK) has resulted in lower numbers of marriages *overall*

We *should* (IMHO) have the following system: 1) a state civil ceremony and contract for legal recognition between *two adult humans*, 2) an *optional* religious ceremony - in the church of your choice - (not legally binding) for your family and friends to witness your declaration of love. That way *your* church can have whatever say over who gets to do what and the state can offer equal rights.

and YES we had that vote in 2000... but since we also had the legislature - the duly elected representatives of the PEOPLE - pass this TWICE already (funny how they repeatedly forget to mention that), Arnie twice vetoed it saying it is a constitutional matter and should be decided in the court. Well they did. They *interpreted* that "equal protection" means "equal protection" and that it is a "basic civil right." CIVIL, right not religious. We'll see if the people have the stomach to amend the constitution to codify hate and discrimination.

Soleil10, learn to spell and peddle your hate to someone who cares. Your opinion is [irrelevant], well, you own. Do you teach your kids to hate? Now there's a family value.

Solil-

So, are you okay with divorce et al? I personally, am not because I also support the idea of a stable family. Even in situations of a death of a parent, I feel that there should be extra support given to the child going through it

As I mentioned earlier, those gay couples that adopt have to go through social services and home inspections etc. in order to even be given a child. When gay couples decide to have a child, there are always others involved who are there to make sure it is a good decision.

What can you do is a good question to be asking because those issues you mentioned as being "so what" issues are major contributers to your disdain for unstable families. Of all battles to be picked in this arena, it seems America has not chosen one which will yield any additional negative consequences other than the ones society decides to put on it.

soul ill-
There is no definitive proof of what you speak. Yet again, you base you decisions on nothing. All those other things have nothing to do with gay marriage and don't help your arguement. There are thousands of gay parents with happy children. That is a fact and it's not going to change. Your whole generation will die before the gay family dies.

"As the family goes....so goes the nation" Soliel10

Peace & Blessings to you, Soliel10 :)

It was interesting to see the mayor of San Francisco say "As California goes...so goes the nation"...to cheering and applause! I was applauding with them from my home in northern California.

I am an heterosexual, married, 51 year old grandmother of 2 with almost 30 years as a Cardiac & Pediatric Nurse.. I've seen a lot of livin' in those years, too!

I am also a second generation Californian native and my grandsons are both fourth generation Californians. Obviously, I am proud of that :)

I can hear so many songs playing in my head right now:
"I wish they all could be California girls"
"II Left My Heart In San Francisco"
"California Here i come, right back where i started from"
"All the leaves are brown...California Dreamin;"
"It never rains in California...it pours, man, it pours!"
...and these are just the songs...I grew up in the Central Valley of California just south of Sacramento area...70 miles east of San Fran during the 60's..
My point is that ................
...............(((((California sets trends))))....
.we might even set a trend for parenting some remarkable children who may come up with answers on how our country or even entire planet can live greener and get off oil dependence...wouldn't that be wonderful?
What I am trying to say is that just because a couple is of the same sex doesn't make them incapable or un fit of bringing up a well adjusted child that becomes a productive adult.

I know of some wonderful same sex partners who have either had children from previous marriages or adopted and are wonderful committed families who;s kids are on soccer teams, etc. They are as normal as any other child there and often smartest and best behaved, too! In a community that doesn't judge others so harshly will enable children be able to flourish. A community free of all social prejudices that do not harm others..and I just don't see the harm here. I do see harm in singling out people in society and making their public lives uncomfortable for their beliefs.

Cherish Our Family's...even the extended ones...sometimes it's all we have.

Peace,
Cherish