Shanghai Diaries - May 19

and...
please don't keep us hanging long...

I can tell you that it gets worse...

Part 2 to come!

... waiting for part two

Due process is something that we take for granted in the West. And in fact, I suspect that many of us don't know what the due process is in our own countries. In Canada, we get a lot of American examples on TV that have no validity here.

Due process is an evolving thing in China too. Recently, defense lawyers can now "meet with their clients after initial interrogation or other mandatory sanctions ordered by judicial organs." This change is for criminal cases. I'm not sure what happened with Abram. It sounds like he went quickly from arrest to sentencing to implementation of sentencing - without legal representation.

The question of due process in China is of keen interest to me. It is a question that I hoped would have been discussed more so I am thankful for your efforts to shed some light on this issue.

To my mind, protection of the rights of people going through the legal system is the utmost concern.

Now to hold my breath until part two comes out...

http://english.gov.cn/2008-04/30/content_958596.htm

F that, that sounds harsh and demeaning tbh, but he was right about the Taiwainese part, even my parents hate Taiwanese people with a passion, funny story is, We purchased a house in a slumish town from a Taiwanese realtor, she faked her personality to get the deal done of course, but she neglected many things, drug dealers, 2 people shot in the area a few weeks ago, a few weeks ago we called her to ask if she wanted to put our house back on the market to sell, she said sure, many pple want to buy, and scheduled a possible buyer, so that day comes, and she calls and says he can't make it, lied about that, and also the Building / Fire / City Inspectors all came from an "anonymous call" that we have too many people living here. They said it was a woman who hardly spoke english..kind of like Chinese.....
So we are foreclosing on the house in 1-2 months time while im in Shanghai.

You be the judge.
Anyways back on topic, lets see part 2. As for me, I'm getting my metro card charged, no motorcycles or prison for me.

Oh, and the thing about the Taiwanese help.... I'm just glad that the system didn't find a reason to process her. A Taiwanese would not be your best advocate in that situation. Also... I'm just guessing... but I think a guy would have been a better too. ... all this wisdom coming from the comfort of my Alberta apartment, eh.

I know lots of Taiwanese and most of my experiences have been very positive. I've dealt with a few realtors and found a few of them to be real ass-hats....

due process - good idea, I have a few friends here who are in law, so *maybe* they'll go on cam.

per Abram, he called the Consulate and they basically said 'they couldn't do a thing'...more on that and their involvement tomorrow.

taiwanese, yeah? bad idea probably - but she was the only one who could be called, as it was a holiday.

in all fairness, what he did was wrong - the question is how his time in prison was dealt with, which, as you've seen a little of, and how you'll see in the next few days, nothing short of barbaric.

While waiting for part two...

http://shanghaiist.com/2007/01/10/shanghai_tv_hos.php
Mao Wei got "10 days in detention, a 1,000 yuan (US$127; euro98) fine, and a three-month suspension of his driver's license" for drunk driving.

My only reccomendation, being an expat or a foreigner here in Shanghai, is to try to make some local friends?, specifically Shanghainese friends, who can speak the "local" language and have that language and "gentle" tone of voice with dealing with issues, I seem to get a better response when they are speaking to another Shanghainese then a foreigner or "wai di ren" (outer province). That situation that your friend was in, it could of went better with a male Shanghainese friend to translate I think, maybe some cash in exchange to deter the prison and hoopla of the event maybe. Money can turn tables :)

At any rate, you learn from your mistakes, thats Life, in SH at least!

I've been looking on the web to get a sense of what the penalties are for driving without a license, to get a sense of context.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/Life/148781.htm
The date of the article is 2005/11/15. "The punishment for driving without a license can be an 800 yuan (US$99) fine and 13 days' custody."

http://www.thedustininmansociety.com/blog/?m=200705
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2007_08/versions/sb15_As_passed_Senate_5.htm
For further context, in Georgia, USA, it looks like they were seeking 2 days to 12 months (This was misquoted by the quote in the blog. The actual proposed law stated 12 months) in jail plus $500 to $1000 in fines for the first offense of driving without a license. Residences from out of State had 30 days to get a Georgia license. The target of the proposed law seems to have been illegal immigrants. Sensibly, the Governor vetoed it. But, according to the quote in the blog, he did so because of the harm of the criminal penalties to people with a valid out-of-state license. Otherwise, he seems to have supported the law.

In Alberta, driving without a license is a $230 fine.

I think, as you can see from today's Part 2, it's not about the crime - he admitted he did it; but we're talking about Shanghai, *China*. No rules are followed here - people drive drunk and get a 50kuai fine, you get in a cab and the driver's picture doesn't match the one driving, you'll pass DVD stores and brothels and let's not even get started on I.P.R.; that's the big thing here is that rules are NOT followed and he's being used to make an example of.

So... enforcing rules good or bad?

Good - if universal.

Corrupt - if only on the 'lao wai'.

You can see similarities between this, the visa situation, et al.

In the coming shows, and now that I have my visa, I'll give you my thoughts on why they're spearheading this mass exodus of foreigners.

Sadly, that's the sort of feeling I'm getting - push the 老外 out.

Looking forward to learning more about your thoughts...

Well, yeah - they are forcing out those who have been here for a while, at least, the 'free-thinkers' (F visa holders), but I have a strong idea on why...

Give me a few days to get caught up with the earthquake and 3 days of 'mourning' and we'll get to that.

It's going to be a very, very interesting summer - you might clean out that spare room of yours ;)

They're so full of shit.

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/china/2008/06/an-american-goe.html

Hey Aric, you got mention on China Rises. :)

In hamanity, I'm symphathized with what happen to Arie. However, the law is a law. You will have to pay the price if you are in the wrong side of law. Chinese law are different than American which base on Common law from U.K. Chinese is base on continental. So, as usually, American can't stand Frensh, and French hate us (not only the law, of course). Oh, by the way, I'm a Chinese American living in States for 3 decades.
Chinese cops don't carry a gun as ours do. The Chinese cops are friendly as what I have expienced when I travelling in China (I travel to pacific rim 6 times annually, at least, for past 2 decades). In fact, they're very much helpful when you ask their help.
My fellow American, remember the basic rule - you will get respect if you hand out yours from the beginning. I do know quite lot of froeigner (inculding American) are showing their superiority(with or without knowing) to the counterpart(anywhere in developing countries). The attitude of yours always put you in a place where you will in. Let me give you an example which I learn it from hard way, when I have to travel to these small town in the Southeast States( such as N.C., S.C., Kentucket etc....) I guard myself with smile(a lot of it) when you encounter with any unpleasuable occasion. After all you're in an unfamliar place. You're leaving the jungle before sundown if your office are located in the downtown of most city( such as L.A., mid town of NY, Boston, chicago etc..) if you know what I mean. Shanghai is safe in the downtown anywhere, anytime. Considering you're lucky as you're not in Philippine or and Mexico. Thanks to Bush, we, American are not popular as decade ago.
We are debtor not creditor any more, we may need beg the sovereign funds( including China) to send in the money to ease us off a few decades later. Oh! that's a joke! just let you know the tide is changing.

Come on, Abram don't be winning like a little girl. Do you know your boddy Mike who had doing a griffiti to a car in Singapore, around 2 decades ago. Singapore government ignore the tide wave of protecting from us. Go ahead to do the full punishment 15 sleashes from cane(a scare will remaind him and never go away for live), and through the youth (about 20's) in the jail for months before kick him back to mid west. Mike, who at least shown his guts lets the journalists to take the pictures of his behind, when he flown back to town. One more thing, Mike not like you, he even not knowing that the griffiti is against the law in Singapore. Well, you think American will avoid the Singapore all together? Wrong, There are at least 15,000 of us are working in Singapore (close ten fold more than what 2 decades ago) now. Shame of you!